Port of Brisbane Brisbane International Cruise Terminal - no public transport

[ozbob]

https://www.portbris.com.au/cruise/getting-here/

Brisbane International Cruise Terminal is only open on days when a cruise ship is at berth.

The Brisbane International Cruise Terminal is not currently serviced by public transport.

I have feedback about the lack of public transport options.

Other than paid parking which must be booked in advance, basically the only way of getting there is by taxi, ride share etc.

Example of feedback received:

" ... I've done a few cruises to and from Brisbane's new cruise terminal. 4 cruises so far since June.
I've now experienced the lack of decent public transport to/from the terminal.
A taxi to/from Brisbane Airport or Toombul train station is $40 - $45. Uber is $30ish.
No bus service is provided for passengers to/from the City to embark a cruise.
When Brisbane is a port of call, A very limited bus to/from the city is provided to passengers as a explore on your own tour with a fixed return time for $40+ per person.
Pre-Covid, a regular shuttle was provided.

My feedback is that people are not generally happy with the current public transport situation.

As a port of call on a visiting cruise, word is most pax are opting to stay on the ships rather than go and see Brisbane city as a result of no regular shuttles being provided.

Generally, unless pax are going to the usual tour destinations of Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast or Lone Pine, Brisbane is viewed as TOO HARD to go and explore.

Our Premier made a song and dance about all the extra tourist dollars the ships will bring in, but I'm afraid from what I am witnessing, Brisbane City is missing out due to no easily accessesible Public transport or regular shuttles. This is a shame as Brisbane has lots to offer.

On the Cruise Critic Roll Calls, the lack of transport always comes up as a topic of debate.

Passengers are comparing Brisbane to Sydney. You and I know they are not the same, but visiting passengers don't see it that way. They expect proper transport. ... "

Is there a solution?

What do you think?

[ozbob]

[timh]

It's a tricky one. Extension of the 303 doesn't seem like it would be worth it for most cruise ship passengers as they'd have to transfer to the Doomben line (or granted, the blue city glider) to get to any decent tourist spots.

Extension of the Doomben line itself is something that's been floated, but that's a very costly option to really only run the occasional service.

I'm leaning more towards something like an APM linking to the Airport line at the domestic terminal, looping around the north end of the Eastern runway. Also very expensive and foamy.

Ultimately it's just difficult to serve because the terminal is just in a sh%t location, far away from any other trip generators.

Quite literally a sh%t location seeing as it's next to the sewerage treatment plant!!

[Jonno]

I never realized it is right next door to the sewerage plant!! Charming first impressions!! Some sort of shuttle to the Airport Line makes most sense Maybe an extension of airport line but that's expensive!! Just shows you how important public transport is to visitors and yet it's all but ignored in "roads-first" Queensland!!

[#Metro]

Is there a solution?

What do you think?

Yes, lots of bleach solution and air freshener. Possibly a hazmat suit as well 

More seriously, there is a bus up there but it is infrequent and probably should be withdrawn.

The port should charge a landing/berthing fee and a portion of that should be placed towards running a private shuttle bus from say Toombul or Hamilton (when the Gold CityGlider or other frequent route is sent there).

As almost all patrons of such a bus would be cruise ship patrons, there is a weak case for this to be funded by TransLink IMHO. A case for public funding rests on having non-port general public passengers benefiting, which would be difficult to achieve here.

That said, there is also the Tangalooma Ferry which departs from a separate location near Holt Street in Eagle Farm. There are ferry services daily, even on weekends, so a reasonable case to divert buses to serve or terminate there.

[Cazza]

Trying to get from the northern suburbs to Eagle Farm is absurdly difficult for what it is, and for what it should be. The 302 realistically should be running to RBWH via Bowen Hills Station, instead of into the City. This way, you still connect to all rail lines at Bowen Hills, plus the majority of buses from the northern suburbs and M2 at RBWH Station, without sitting in the Ann St car park of an afternoon. Post CRR, you'd still have a connection to CRR services at Exhibition Station.

What I'm getting at is you could then have the 302 extended out to the Cruise Port when ships are docked, to operate regular services during the day and connect with a good chunk of the network at key inner-north interchanges (Map)

You'd omit Fison Ave E and the Schneider Road loop, so maybe it would be worthwhile having it as a different route number. Either way, the Tangalooma resort ferry needs a regular all-day service to connect with too. As mentioned, you would definitely want (and need) some sort of docking fee from the Cruise companies going towards helping fund this service.

One of the potential (genuine) issues I see however is that there are 16 coach bays there, but they are pull in, front door load/unload only, then reverse out, pretty much like Huddersfield Bus Station here:



From what I'm aware, TfB drivers aren't allowed to reverse without permission and/or a 'spotter' (I'm not sure what the exact ruling it, I just have heard drivers not being able to do so, particularly at QSBS). Looking at aerial imagery, it may be difficult to suitably accommodate an inline bus bay if TfB were to operate these services. Food for thought.


Edit: attached is an the aerial of the layout, with Coach bays in red.

[SurfRail]

Having just used this facility in the last 2 weeks, I think any suggestion anywhere near a sizable fraction of passengers would be using public transport is pretty much whistling Dixie.

Many people will take advantage of Andrews / Alpha / similar airport parking places near the M1 or Southern Cross Way and get a shuttle up.  Shuttles are also offered by booking agencies, the cruise lines etc.  Same at Yorkeys Knob when a boat is too big for the Cairns port.

Beyond that, I'm not sure why it is TransLink's business, or for that matter why it is even the Port's business how people get there.  Demand is going to be next to non-existent for a subsidised service and given it is entirely for choice passengers going on a holiday, I don't get the need.  There are no trip generators other than the industrial uses already catered to by the existing public bus services, and the cruise terminal isn't exactly turning over the same number of passengers as the airport terminals.

The majority of people going on shore excursions would be booking through the boat to minimise the risk of missing it when it sails, and that involves transfers.

[OzGamer]

Honestly the simplest and most convenient solution is probably just a reasonably frequent bus from the terminal via Lomandra Drive and the East West Arterial to Airport Link and then join the busway at RBWH and continue as far as Southbank on days when a ship is in port. Most visitors would want to go to the city or Southbank anyway, and everyone else can connect to or from wherever they want to go at Roma Street or another busway station. Funding is another matter, but it wouldn't be that expensive - much much cheaper than building new infrastructure for such a rare occurrence.

[verbatim9]

I reckon they should make Skygate a major transit hub. An extensive hub together with the new Skygate station can provide viable connections to the cruise terminal and airport terminals as well as to businesses throughout the airport precinct. The new Gold Glider needs to be extended to Skygate as well.

The cruise shuttles to and from Skygate and the airport terminals can be run by BAC in collaboration with Translink.

[SurfRail]

Why would anybody with 8 hours max in Brisbane waste time farting around at a no-account shopping centre waiting for a public bus?

This is such a non-issue.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> For $8, a FastCat straight to cruise ship? Royal Caribbean boss is onboard

Brisbane needs an $8-a-ticket "FastCat" service from the Brisbane International Cruise Terminal at the mouth of the river to the city heart, an executive at one of the world's largest cruise ship companies says.

Queensland Treasury said cruise tourism poured $570 million into the Queensland economy in 2018-19, as 853,000 passengers and crew enjoyed the equivalent of 521 cruise ship days in Queensland – and that was before the $177 million cruise ship terminal was opened in June.

The terminal was financed, designed and built by the Port of Brisbane Authority, which estimates it could bring 760,000 visitors each year, contributing an estimated "$1.3 billion in net expenditure into the Brisbane economy".

Up to 160 cruise ships were expected to land in Brisbane between June 2022 and June 2023.

Royal Caribbean International vice-president and Australian and New Zealand managing director Gavin Smith said, "prioritising an $8 river connection, over a $50 taxi journey" would be a "winner".

"One of the pieces of infrastructure that I think could work is putting a ferry pier [at the cruise terminal]," Smith said.

"What a wonderful way to arrive.

"You could get off the ship and get on a 'FastCat' and get to somewhere at the bottom of the Botanical Gardens there, not far from Roma Street, instead of going on the road network." ...

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1598671018247487488

[ozbob]

All options should be considered.

 

[timh]

Honestly a ferry is not a bad idea. I'd have it stop at Portside Hamilton, Eagle Street, South Bank and North Quay

[SurfRail]

I continue not to understand why this is an issue given everybody on a cruise ship is there having a holiday (or is crew who generally live aboard the ship in Australian waters) and so has chosen to be there at their own cost.  So so very many other issues with the network to be concerned about.

A ship like Quantum of the Seas has up to 4,000 passengers - just how many ferries are we talking about here, for what is basically a once a day trip on less than every day?  A trip downriver from the CBD to the cruise terminal certainly isn't likely to be any faster from the CBD by ferry than by road given the shape of the river.  Brisbane is also for the majority of visiting ships the origin/destination rather than a port of call, so people are largely unlikely to be getting off the boat for shore excursions and needing to return to the ship.  Maybe a very small class of people such as those who are doing back to back cruises and don't live in Brisbane.  I suspect the majority of any shore excursions are probably for destinations further afield than the CBD area, Brisbane not being a tourist mecca (eg Gold Coast, Australia Zoo, Lone Pine) and so those passengers would be transported there from the terminal, and back.

[ozbob]

The feedback I have had is to do more with Brisbane residents trying to get to the Cruise Terminal to join a departing cruise etc. and returning home after a cruise. I haven't looked at the ferry option critically but on the surface could work I guess.  But it is not really a service for the day-trippers, I think the Cruise liner companies put on buses for that.

[#Metro]

I agree with SurfRail.

The main question is "Who's paying?".

Probably should be Royal Carribean et al.

Not Translink.

"What is included in Royal Caribbean's cruise ticket price?" (Hint: Not Public Transport)

[verbatim9]

If they do start a ferry service to and from the new cruise terminal, it will definitely need to stop at Bretts Wharf, Portside. This can enable people to connect  with  bus services on Kingsford Smith Drive.

[Otto]

Pre covid, the cruise operators would contract Kangaroo Buslines to run a regular shuttle when docked at the grain terminal @ Fisherman Islands at a nominal cost to the passengers. The shuttles would typically be very busy for the first two hours from port and similarly for 2 hours prior the cessation of the shuttle service . The service was provided for the convenience of passengers and crew on shore leave. This has been a standard practice at most ports of call that are generally a distance away from the centre of townships or if the ship is berthed within the confines of a working port.
As part of cost cutting by most cruise operators post covid, this practice has been stopped at many ports as cruise lines seek to maximise profits to offset large debts accumulated during the worldwide cruise shutdown.
End result is passengers at many ports are now needing private transport to reach out-of-the-way cruise ports. Another option cruise lines are now using at heavy demand ports is to provide a fixed time shuttle for 200 - 300% of the pre covid cost of frequent shuttles. ( example, Grain Terminal to Airport for transitting passengers pre covid was generally $20. Post covid, transitting passengers are charged $40 from BICT to Airport. )

[verbatim9]

Abc News---> Cruise ships scramble for Pinkenba berth as Portside terminal closes

^^Portside to close

The apartment residents will be happy that the ships will no longer dock at Portside. This is due to the diesel emission they constantly emit even when docked.


Now they just need a public transport option. I reckon they best way is to have an electric bus shuttle to and from Skygate as a paid service. This can be done by getting BAC to run the service on behalf of Translink as they already have the electric fleet and access to airside roads as short cuts. Translink would just have to install the smart ticketing readers. I suspect it would only be a zone 1 fare.


They could easily have this signed and ready to go by February next year. 👍🚍🛳�

[Gazza]

Now they just need a public transport option. I reckon they best way is to have an electric bus shuttle to and from Skygate as a paid service. This can be done by getting BAC to run the service on behalf of Translink as they already have the electric fleet and access to airside roads as short cuts. Translink would just have to install the smart ticketing readers. I suspect it would only be a zone 1 fare.

I know you like Skygate, but I don't think you need to treat it like the center of the universe, nor does it make sense for this route.

So come February or March a tourist has arrived on a cruise ship and this route drops them off at Skygate.
Then what? They get the 590 to Toombul, and then finally a train to the CBD?

What a painful journey.


Also, what buses currently pass between airside and non airside zones?
And what roads can be used as shortcuts, are they any quicker than just using Lomandra drive?

Because having a look, I cant see any roads in the airside zones that would be significantly shorter than
public roads:

[JimmyP]

Yeah, airside is not gonna happen.

[verbatim9]

Skygate will become a significant interchange with the proposed Gold Glider and the completion of Skygate Station. BAC may also loop the cruise shuttle via the terminals, depending on demand etc...Passengers, workers and visitors to the cruise terminal can get the train from there in the interim. Cost of the train is likely to come down as well. Yes the 590 is the only bus servicing Skygate until the Gold Glider or when the 369 is extended once again.

BAC bus services can run via their private roads if they don't stop enroute, but it would be up them how they run their services at the end of the day.

Direct services to and from the city by ferry and bus from the cruise terminal can be very expensive to run. The interchange solution at Skygate can be done at a fraction of the cost.     

[HappyTrainGuy]

Stop sniffing fumes. Skygate station isn't happening.

[Gazza]

So why wouldn't you propose a route that actually works, and then change the route in the future when Gold Glider and Skygate station actually exists?

Why not interchange with Doomben or Toombul.

Going via Skygate then away from the CBD even further to the current Airtrain station is far too circuitous, and it has been proven time and time again in southeast Queensland at passengers will not use overly indirect routes.

When you talk about going airside can you show on Google maps the high security gate the bus would go through to get airside?

[verbatim9]

Going via Skygate then away from the CBD even further to the current Airtrain station is far too circuitous, and it has been proven time and time again in southeast Queensland at passengers will not use overly indirect routes.

Because Skygate is a good interchange. BAC services will not run to Toombul, as out of the jurisdiction. It's up to BAC to decide the most appropriate route via airside or public roads within their precinct.

Doomben train services are infrequent and nothing there for tourists. Plus it would cost too much to upgrade Doomben services. Nudgee road is plagued with traffic unlike the roads within the airport precinct.

Toombul interchange has become obsolete. It really only served the shopping centre and was never a good interchange with rail services. On the other hand Skygate has great potential.

[Gazza]

Is the Brisbane cruise terminal owned by BAC?

[verbatim9]

There is some agreement between the Port of Bne and BAC.

[Gazza]

What agreement?

[HappyTrainGuy]

And what Skygate station. There isn't one. There's no demand for one. It's on a curve. And it's not actually near an interchange area for dfo. It's a pie in the sky dream topped off with a nice foamy top. People need to stop taking a line from Wikipedia as gospel. And any public transport bus will not access the airport service roads. The level of foam is off the charts here!

[JimmyP]

For a bus to run airside, the passengers need to be security screened (or vetted well and truely before they even think of stepping on the bus). It doesn't matter if the bus is stopping airside or not. If the bus comes to a stop anywhere along the route, a passenger could force open the doors and get out in to the restricted airside area.
Not. Gonna. Happen.

Skygate rail station is also not even on the drawing board at this point, let alone anywhere close to being completed. There was an idea years ago when the line was built that there could be a station there in the future. That's as far as it has gone. Do I think it would be a good idea? Sure. The area is getting more offices etc., it could be something to look at in the future, but it's sooooooo far down the list of priorities at this point that it's not even worth thinking about.

[verbatim9]

I never implied that Skygate Station is on the cards within the next year or two. It's likely on the cards within the next 5 years. I suspect the Gold Glider to come online in 2024. There is nothing stopping the State Government contacting out services to BAC to run buses to and from Skygate to the cruise terminal with some via the air terminals in the immediate future.

It's a plausible solution in line with TMR"s *Creating Better Connections*

[timh]

It's likely on the cards within the next 5 years.

My brother in Christ, there is no way that's happening. I doubt they'd even get the Airtrain contract sorted in that time at the pace they're going

[verbatim9]

It seems that there are a lot of anti public transport improvement comments on this thread which is not really the way forward.

[SurfRail]

No, just a bit of exasperation with some of the ideas that you come up with.  It has been explained to you many times why things like a major interchange at Skygate are not only unlikely but actually not a good idea, but you just brush them off.

[verbatim9]

There has been no ideas from others on this forum to improve public transport to the airport precinct except support for the buy out of the airport line. Buying out the airport line is not necessarily going to improve overall public transport to the area.

There is support for a Skygate interchange and improved services outside the small circle of anti public transport commentary and personal attacks on this thread.

[ozbob]

Just agree to disagree folks.  I don't think there are ' personal attacks ' just vigorous different points of view.

The location of the new terminal does present some challenges from a PT point of view.

Operators of the terminal need to look at what options can be reliably implemented to make access a bit better for all.

[#Metro]

Hi Verbatim9,

The International Cruise Terminal is very poorly located, both from a PT perspective and for the genius of locating it next to a sewerage treatment plant.

A whole heap of 'options' are now being discussed publicly in the media. I can only imagine that the purpose of this is to rope TransLink in to clean up a situation that it had no involvement in creating, and to cost-shift access costs from private cruise ship businesses onto the public accounts. For this reason, I think Port of Brisbane needs to pay for the shuttles, with cost recovery via berthing fees or an included fare similar to how sports stadium events incorporate 'free' PT in Brisbane.

The details, route, and mode of access should be Port of Brisbane's business to work out. Nothing to do with TransLink.

In terms of SkyGate station, a train station at SkyGate appears as part of Brisbane Airport Corporation's official 20-year masterplan.

Personally, I think improved bus services are sufficient.

BAC has plans to expand the DFO precinct quite a bit, by adding 4,950m² new retail space and 1,200m² commercial office space. As BAC would be the main beneficiary of any new station, it may be possible to split the cost or do a deal where BAC pay for a new train station (ideally fully, but partial also possible) and QR trains stop there. This will line up incentives such that if it really isn't viable, BAC will refuse to pay for it.

If the State buys out Airtrain early and secured the Olympics, it would have already done quite a lot financially to ensure access to BAC's private precinct, asking for something in return is not unreasonable. BAC managed to find $1.1 billion to dredge sand up from the bottom of Moreton bay to form a new second runway, so it is not like they aren't in a position to raise funds. That said, a train station is a long way off, assuming that it does get built.

Brisbane Airport Master Plan
https://www.bne.com.au/sites/default/files/docs/Brisbane-Airport-2020-Master-Plan-Summary.pdf

[#Metro]

There has been no ideas from others on this forum to improve public transport to the airport precinct except support for the buy out of the airport line. Buying out the airport line is not necessarily going to improve overall public transport to the area.

There is support for a Skygate interchange and improved services outside the small circle of anti public transport commentary and personal attacks on this thread.

I've proposed extending Route 369 into Brisbane Airport, provided that the BARL deed is sorted out (which it probably will) elsewhere on this forum.

It's a proposal that requires no new infrastructure and low additional operating cost. Can be set up in 12 months or less IMHO.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It's likely on the cards within the next 5 years.

Ummm what? People were saying that back in 2010. Its always on the cards in 5 years time.

There is nothing stopping the State Government contacting out services to BAC to run buses to and from Skygate to the cruise terminal with some via the air terminals in the immediate future.

It's a plausible solution in line with TMR"s *Creating Better Connections*

TMR/Translink can run services tomorrow if they wanted to as the cruise terminal is not on airport land. Its actually BCC land.

I've proposed extending Route 369 into Brisbane Airport, provided that the BARL deed is sorted out (which it probably will) elsewhere on this forum.

It's a proposal that requires no new infrastructure and low additional operating cost. Can be set up in 12 months or less IMHO.

It's also a pie in the sky scheme with no real benefit. Are you going to extend the 369 span of hours? Are you going to expand the 369 frequency? The 369  goes to Mitchelton can that sustain the added cost of services using the corridor? Layover facilities? Skygate is not open 24/7. 75% of the shops in the direct area aren't even open at 8.30am when frequency already starts to drop off. Can that sustain the route if its going to the airport? What happens to buses in a couple weeks - i'll post a link when it happens?

In terms of SkyGate station, a train station at SkyGate appears as part of Brisbane Airport Corporation's official 20-year masterplan.

Personally, I think improved bus services are sufficient.

BAC has plans to expand the DFO precinct quite a bit, by adding 4,950m² new retail space and 1,200m² commercial office space. As BAC would be the main beneficiary of any new station, it may be possible to split the cost or do a deal where BAC pay for a new train station (ideally fully, but partial also possible) and QR trains stop there. This will line up incentives such that if it really isn't viable, BAC will refuse to pay for it.

If the State buys out Airtrain early and secured the Olympics, it would have already done quite a lot financially to ensure access to BAC's private precinct, asking for something in return is not unreasonable. BAC managed to find $1.1 billion to dredge sand up from the bottom of Moreton bay to form a new second runway, so it is not like they aren't in a position to raise funds. That said, a train station is a long way off, assuming that it does get built.

Brisbane Airport Master Plan
https://www.bne.com.au/sites/default/files/docs/Brisbane-Airport-2020-Master-Plan-Summary.pdf

That's a glossy pdf and nothing else. Meant to look like they are doing something but not. Its very easy to say we'd love a train station there but we won't pay for it because its not our responsibility. We see the same fancy pdf's all the time when it comes to masterplans. Infact there's more talk and detail about the reserved 6 staation mass transit system loop than a skygate station. And there's a sh%t ton more talk about car parking expansion.