SEQ Rail Connect

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1554841372535820288

[ozbob]

Interview 2 August 2022 on ABC Brisbane Radio Drive host Steve Austin and Robert Dow RBoT

Topic: SEQ Rail Connect with reference to rail network changes

Interview here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcdrive_rd_2aug22.mp3 MP3 25MB

Interview 3 August 2022 ABC Gold Coast Radio Mornings Host Sally Rope and Robert Dow RBoT

Topic: Changes to the rail network with CRR and the Gold Coast

Interview here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcgc/abcgc_rd_3aug22.mp3 MP3 8.8MB

Some interesting comments from Mayor Tom Tate towards the end of the segment.

[Gazza]

On the subject of an interchange between the northern lines, I still think that every train should stop at Albion because:
 
1. Eagle Junction is vastly less equipped for being a busy interchange.  Albion in its current form is not perfect but it would probably take a lot more to fix that issue at EJ.  Albion on the other hand is already going to be the subject of a significant upgrade in the near future as part of the TOD being developed.

2. The TOD and existing pattern of settlement around Albion make for stronger local patronage than anything existing or planned for Eagle Junction.

3. If you make the interchange Eagle Junction, you bake in perpetual unfairness for Wooloowin and Albion passengers who can't get trains to Exhibition without having to backtrack from Roma Street.  They will of course have to interchange anyway, and it won't be a same platform transfer, but better to not have to go way off course to achieve it.  There is unlikely to be a convenient bus that could replace these trips given the road network layout, without again inflicting another transfer.

Open question as to whether all trains should stop at Eagle Junction also.  I think you would be disadvantaging fewer passengers if Eagle Junction is not served by Sector 1 trains versus Albion being the stop missed, but there would still be some.

Im not sure if I agree. Doesnt the FG line have the same perpetual unfairness of backtracking to get to Ekka?
Wooloowin and Albion pax can join the club lol.

EJ makes sense because you have it as the merge point for Doomben, Airport and the northern lines and also cross town bus services.

But this does raise broader issues in terms of station upgrades. Maybe they actually need to Upgrade EJ properly this time? Build a new overpass building that continues the current 'brick' at the front of the station.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

Explainer: Why the Gold Coast line trains can no longer travel direct to Brisbane Airport with Cross River Rail

4th August 2022



There has been some recent talk in the media about the Gold Coast being 'snubbed' with the loss of services travelling through to Brisbane Airport after Cross River Rail opens. Gold Coast services will instead travel further north.

Gold Coast Mayor Tom Tate said "Something isn't right when the two biggest cities in Queensland, with two major international airports, won't have a direct Airtrain service"

But there are technical reasons as to why this had to change.

Currently, trains from the Gold Coast cross the Merivale Bridge,merge onto the CBD lines "keep right" ( on the suburban tracks) through the CBD and onto the northern lines, and then peel off to the right onto the airport spur after Eagle Junction.

But with Cross River Rail, trains from the Gold Coast will now enter the tunnel, pass through the new underground stations (including Albert St and Roma Street in the CBD) pop up near Exhibition and merge in from the left to the northern lines. If you continued to run them to the Airport, they still would need to peel off to the right to enter the airport spur.

Having trains merging from the left but peeling off to the right creates a situation called a "conflicting move".
It's the equivalent of weaving across several lanes of traffic, and would cause knock on delays to all other lines and reduces the capacity of the network.

Hence the decision was made by rail planners to swap line pairings. It means Gold Coast to Kippa-Ring/Caboolture/Sunshine Coast trains stay on one side, and Ipswich to Airport trains stay on the other side. Because there are no conflicting moves you can run the maximum number of trains reliably. More trains means a shorter wait to interchange.

Whilst some Gold Coast passengers might not like changing trains with luggage, it's a fact of life that passengers on every other line (Ferny Grove, Caboolture, Ipswich, Cleveland etc.) have coped with this for years.

In the long term, this new line pairing could support a Coast 2 Coast service from Coolangatta to Maroochydore, and RAIL Back On Track supports continued upgrades to provide a fast rail service along the full length of this corridor.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. Interview: 2 August 2022 on ABC Brisbane Radio Drive Host Steve Austin and Robert Dow RAIL Back On Track
Topic: SEQ Rail Connect with reference to rail network changes
Interview here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcdrive_rd_2aug22.mp3 MP3 25MB

2. Interview: 3 August 2022 ABC Gold Coast Radio Mornings Host Sally Rope and Robert Dow RAIL Back On Track
Topic: Changes to the rail network with CRR and the Gold Coast
Interview here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcgc/abcgc_rd_3aug22.mp3 MP3 8.8MB
Comments from Mayor Tom Tate towards the end of the segment.

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

Explainer: Why the Gold Coast line trains can no longer travel direct to Brisbane Airport with Cross River Rail 4th...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Wednesday, 3 August 2022

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1554899838512205824

[ozbob]

Eagle Junction it is. Agreed Gazza. The rail planners have settled on Eagle Junction too.

I think we can make suggestions to improve Eagle Junction station for ease of transferring.

I have often transferred at Eagle Junction to and from BNE.  It is manageable at present but can be improved.

The thing that really p%ssed  me off though was watching the Ipswich train depart as the Airtrain from BNE arrived at Eagle Junction. From 2025, that will not be a problem will it? 

On the subject of an interchange between the northern lines, I still think that every train should stop at Albion because:
 
1. Eagle Junction is vastly less equipped for being a busy interchange.  Albion in its current form is not perfect but it would probably take a lot more to fix that issue at EJ.  Albion on the other hand is already going to be the subject of a significant upgrade in the near future as part of the TOD being developed.

2. The TOD and existing pattern of settlement around Albion make for stronger local patronage than anything existing or planned for Eagle Junction.

3. If you make the interchange Eagle Junction, you bake in perpetual unfairness for Wooloowin and Albion passengers who can't get trains to Exhibition without having to backtrack from Roma Street.  They will of course have to interchange anyway, and it won't be a same platform transfer, but better to not have to go way off course to achieve it.  There is unlikely to be a convenient bus that could replace these trips given the road network layout, without again inflicting another transfer.

Open question as to whether all trains should stop at Eagle Junction also.  I think you would be disadvantaging fewer passengers if Eagle Junction is not served by Sector 1 trains versus Albion being the stop missed, but there would still be some.

Im not sure if I agree. Doesnt the FG line have the same perpetual unfairness of backtracking to get to Ekka?
Wooloowin and Albion pax can join the club lol.

EJ makes sense because you have it as the merge point for Doomben, Airport and the northern lines and also cross town bus services.

But this does raise broader issues in terms of station upgrades. Maybe they actually need to Upgrade EJ properly this time? Build a new overpass building that continues the current 'brick' at the front of the station.

[ozbob]

LinkedIn

[ozbob]

 

[SurfRail]

They are going to have to do a substantial upgrade at EJ then.  It's not going to be pleasant in it's current form.

[ozbob]

They are going to have to do a substantial upgrade at EJ then.  It's not going to be pleasant in it's current form.

Yes, agreed.

I might head out there and have a good look around in the next few weeks.

[aldonius]

I don't think we'll see major changes to anything pre-switchover.

The mains timetabling is pretty tight - there are a bunch of timetabled transfers at Petrie in a 3-7 minute window, plus the 15 minute offset Northgate to Darra. So adding Strathpine to the express pattern pre-switchover would presumably knock some of that out of whack.


Also... lots of questions to be raised about where all the drivers are going to come from to implement that 15-minute headway standard for the suburban area. And when the works on the Shorncliffe, Doomben, outer Cleveland line will happen for it.

[#Metro]

Also... lots of questions to be raised about where all the drivers are going to come from to implement that 15-minute headway standard for the suburban area. And when the works on the Shorncliffe, Doomben, outer Cleveland line will happen for it.

Convert guards into drivers and implement DOO?

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Why the Gold Coast is losing its direct rail link to Brisbane Airport

Queensland's most prominent public transport advocate has backed the state government's decision to scrap direct services between the Brisbane Airport and the Gold Coast, saying the new Cross River Rail configurations would make such a connection dangerous.

Gold Coast mayor Tom Tate and the region's peak tourism body criticised the decision, which Queensland Transport Minister Mark Bailey made public on Tuesday when he released the SEQ Rail Connect network plan. ...

Airtrain passengers by local government area
Where passengers either started or ended their Airtrain trip in 2018-19 (pre-COVID)

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1555196363222454274

[ozbob]

ABC News --> 'Wins and losses' for south-east Queensland rail commuters under Cross River Rail plan

[ozbob]

Redland City Bulletin --> Cleveland line to link with Ferny Grove as state government releases redrawn rail network

CLEVELAND will link up with the Ferny Grove line under sweeping rail network changes set to take effect when Cross River Rail comes online in 2025.

The state government has released a new south-east Queensland rail map showing how it plans to reconfigure the network into three sectors after the multi-billion project is complete.

Cleveland will switch from its current link with Shorncliffe and connect with Ferny Grove in Brisbane's north. ...

[BrizCommuter]

I'm surprised no politicians in Ipswich are excited about getting Airport trains? Or are they asleep at the wheel?

[Gazza]

Aren't the really excitable politicians in Ipswich in jail?

[timh]

Aren't the really excitable politicians in Ipswich in jail?

HAHAHA that's great 🤣🤣. But yes you're right Briz, any politician with half a brain would be trying to spin this to be a "big win for western suburbs". GC already has its own airport, Ipswich doesn't. Very low hanging fruit so it's weird there's been no mention of those positives in any press releases

[ozbob]

RAAF Base Amberley ... RAAF Base Amberley is located 40 kms south-west of Brisbane on the outskirts of Ipswich. It is Air Force's largest base and employs over 5000 people.

https://www.airforce.gov.au/about-us/bases/queensland/raaf-base-amberley

I have spoken with Transport staff at ICC on the implications of the new network.

Local MPs are all across it.  If we still had the Queensland Times in the real form of a newspaper it would have been a good yarn.

[Jonno]

The car park has 8000 spaces so I suspect the numbers are even higher when you include contractor and other visitors!

[Jonno]

I'm surprised no politicians in Ipswich are excited about getting Airport trains? Or are they asleep at the wheel?

If you think about where the Airports are the longest distance to an airport is from out Ipswich way! Makes sense for Airport Train to go to Ipswich! Coast Connect line should go from Noosa to Coolongatta (via Airports).

[ozbob]

Sunshine Valley Gazette 10th August 2022 page 25

Changes on the horizon for how we will commute

[ozbob]

Anyone paying attention?

So Springfield is going to be paired with Shorncliffe.  The intention is to run Springfield at 15 min frequency out of peak.  The single line section between Sandgate and Shorncliffe needs to be addressed, pronto.

Similarly, Ferny Grove line will be be paired with Cleveland.  15 minute off peak on Ferny Grove, the lack of capacity due to the single line between Manly and Cleveland needs to be addressed, pronto.

The lack of forward planning wrt CRR is bordering on farcical ...

[aldonius]

Seems likely to me that Northgate and Cannon Hill termination might continue for a few years yet...

[#Metro]

Anyone paying attention?

So Springfield is going to be paired with Shorncliffe.  The intention is to run Springfield at 15 min frequency out of peak.  The single line section between Sandgate and Shorncliffe needs to be addressed, pronto.

Similarly, Ferny Grove line will be be paired with Cleveland.  15 minute off peak on Ferny Grove, the lack of capacity due to the single line between Manly and Cleveland needs to be addressed, pronto.

Would require short sections of track amplification and construction of 1 new platform at each station. Seems achieveable.

[OzGamer]

Seems likely to me that Northgate and Cannon Hill termination might continue for a few years yet...

That's my reading.

But also, can't the Shorncliffe line support 15 minute frequency already? Is Sandgate-Shorncliffe duplication really critical in that case?

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2022/787-2022.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 787
Asked on 17 August 2022

MR M CRANDON ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to the South East Queensland Rail Connect plan—
Will the Minister provide the forecast rail crossing boom gate down time for the morning peak
(5am-10am) once Cross River Rail opens (2025) and in 2031 for each of the following locations
(a) Florence Street (Ronald Street) Wynnum Central, (b) Kianawah Road, Lindum, (c) Beenleigh
Road, Kuraby, (d) Old Beaudesert Road, Salisbury, (e) Queensport Road, Murarrie, (f) Cavendish
Road, Coorparoo, (g) Dawson Parade, Grovely, (h) Spanns Road, Holmview, (i) Oates
Ave/Trinder Crossing, Trinder Park, (j) Warrigal Road, Runcorn, (k) Station Road, Bethania,
(l) Sherwood Road, Sherwood, (m) Wacol Station Road, Wacol, (n) Nudgee Road, Doomben,
(o) St Vincents Road, Banyo, (p) Barrack Road, Cannon Hill, (q) South Pine Road, Alderley and
(r) McKean Street, Caboolture?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Coomera for the question.

SEQ Rail Connect is a blueprint for how the Queensland Government will shape the rail network
to meet the future needs of the growing South East Queensland region. SEQ Rail Connect, in
and of itself will, therefore, make no changes in the boom arm down-time experienced on the
road network.

A number of factors influence boom arm down-time at road rail interfaces including rail signalling,
the number of trains passing through the crossing (for example, peak, and contra-peak services
running together), the stopping patterns of services (express or all stops), the proximity of the
level crossing to the train station, and the length of the train.

As timetables for the opening of Cross River Rail are still in development, it is therefore not
currently possible to estimate expected boom gate down time at specified locations on the
network.

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2022/848-2022.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 848
Asked on 18 August 2022

MR M BOOTHMAN ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to the Brisbane Airport Rail Link Deed—
Will the Minister advise (a) if the deed, as originally signed, gives the operator the right to operate
rail services from the Brisbane Airport to the Gold Coast and (b) if this is the case, what
compensation (monetary or otherwise) has or will be provided to the operator due to the
implementation of the South East Queensland Rail Connect plan?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Theodore for the question.

a) The Brisbane Airport Rail Link (BARL) Deed is with Airtrain Citylink Limited (Airtrain). The
BARL Deed is a commercial arrangement for operation of the railway between Eagle
Junction and Domestic and International Airport stations, which enables trains to operate
on the BARL and the Queensland Rail network.

b) The State is committed managing its contractual obligations under the BARL Deed.
Accordingly, the State has not paid any compensation in relation to the implementation of
the South East Queensland Rail Connect plan, nor has it received a claim for
compensation.

[Jonno]

Sent to all outlets:

Explainer: Why the Gold Coast line trains can no longer travel direct to Brisbane Airport with Cross River Rail

4th August 2022



There has been some recent talk in the media about the Gold Coast being 'snubbed' with the loss of services travelling through to Brisbane Airport after Cross River Rail opens. Gold Coast services will instead travel further north.

Gold Coast Mayor Tom Tate said "Something isn't right when the two biggest cities in Queensland, with two major international airports, won't have a direct Airtrain service"

But there are technical reasons as to why this had to change.

Currently, trains from the Gold Coast cross the Merivale Bridge,merge onto the CBD lines "keep right" ( on the suburban tracks) through the CBD and onto the northern lines, and then peel off to the right onto the airport spur after Eagle Junction.

But with Cross River Rail, trains from the Gold Coast will now enter the tunnel, pass through the new underground stations (including Albert St and Roma Street in the CBD) pop up near Exhibition and merge in from the left to the northern lines. If you continued to run them to the Airport, they still would need to peel off to the right to enter the airport spur.

Having trains merging from the left but peeling off to the right creates a situation called a "conflicting move".
It's the equivalent of weaving across several lanes of traffic, and would cause knock on delays to all other lines and reduces the capacity of the network.

Hence the decision was made by rail planners to swap line pairings. It means Gold Coast to Kippa-Ring/Caboolture/Sunshine Coast trains stay on one side, and Ipswich to Airport trains stay on the other side. Because there are no conflicting moves you can run the maximum number of trains reliably. More trains means a shorter wait to interchange.

Whilst some Gold Coast passengers might not like changing trains with luggage, it's a fact of life that passengers on every other line (Ferny Grove, Caboolture, Ipswich, Cleveland etc.) have coped with this for years.

In the long term, this new line pairing could support a Coast 2 Coast service from Coolangatta to Maroochydore, and RAIL Back On Track supports continued upgrades to provide a fast rail service along the full length of this corridor.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. Interview: 2 August 2022 on ABC Brisbane Radio Drive Host Steve Austin and Robert Dow RAIL Back On Track
Topic: SEQ Rail Connect with reference to rail network changes
Interview here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcdrive_rd_2aug22.mp3 MP3 25MB

2. Interview: 3 August 2022 ABC Gold Coast Radio Mornings Host Sally Rope and Robert Dow RAIL Back On Track
Topic: Changes to the rail network with CRR and the Gold Coast
Interview here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcgc/abcgc_rd_3aug22.mp3 MP3 8.8MB
Comments from Mayor Tom Tate towards the end of the segment.

Given this new rail pairing now and into the future. Does the old part/platforms of Boggo Road Station need to be rebuilt to provide better/equal focus to the Cleveland Line to also support duplication, express patterns, etc on that line? 

[aldonius]

Given this new rail pairing now and into the future. Does the old part/platforms of Boggo Road Station need to be rebuilt to provide better/equal focus to the Cleveland Line to also support duplication, express patterns, etc on that line? 

We might eventually want to make it possible to get to Park Rd P3 from the Cleveland line but it's all fine otherwise. With the outbound BL/GC trains in CRR, they won't clash with the inbound Cleveland trains. That's most of the problem.

(Still likely have to deal with Park Rd terminators, but those have a few options and fewer sources of delay.)

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2022/1158-2022.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 1158
Asked on 26 October 2022

MR J KRAUSE ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to only the New Generation Rollingstock trains being able to operate in Cross
River Rail—
Will the Minister confirm that Queensland Rail's older Interurban Multiple Unit (IMU) and
Suburban Multiple Unit (SMU) trains will be exclusively used on the Ferny Grove, Shorncliffe,
Airport, Doomben, Cleveland, Ipswich and Springfield lines?


ANSWER:
I thank the Member for Scenic Rim for the question.

Cross River Rail is South East Queensland's (SEQ) number one transport priority, and
Queensland Rail is committed to ensuring its successful integration into its existing network and
operations.

Queensland Rail is working closely with the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority and the
Department of Transport and Main Roads to support the planning, delivery and implementation
of the Cross River Rail project. The integration of Cross River Rail will result in significant changes
to the current SEQ network and the way it operates. As part of preparations, technical experts
from multiple agencies are working together to determine the relevant operational details.

The New Generation Rollingstock and newer trains procured in future will operate in the Cross
River Rail tunnel. The Interurban and Suburban Multiple Unit fleets will service sector two
(Shorncliffe, Airport, Doomben to/from Ipswich/Springfield) and sector three (Ferny Grove to/from
Cleveland).

Further, the Palaszczuk Government is investing $7.1 billion in the Queensland Train
Manufacturing Program, building 65 trains in Maryborough by Queenslanders, for
Queenslanders, not built overseas. These Queensland built trains will play an important role in
rail operations as they come into service.

[paulg]

Good to finally see a bit more detail, thanks Ozbob for hassling them!

I think there is still some weirdness in the published track layouts south of Dutton Park - they are rebuilding the southern stations Salisbury to Fairfield to add a third platform for the dual gauge, presumably so that the middle road can be used for expresses, but there appears to be no connection from the dual gauge line into CRR. See these general layout plans:




There is also some weirdness in the PC9 design at Yeerongpilly, it appears to show the down sub and the dual gauge tracks effectively crossing over north of the platforms:



Does anyone understand how the three-track arrangement from Dutton Park south might work? Doesn't seem to make any sense from the PC9 plans. The revised Dutton Park station design does look different from the published PC9 plan (two platforms, on the eastern side of both the up sub and down sub), so perhaps there is a newer design which includes some crossovers between Fairfield and Dutton Park.

Just in case anyone else was concerned about this issue, it does appear they are now building a crossover between the dual gauge (western-most) track and the CRR-bound lines, between Fairfield and Dutton Park stations (despite it not appearing in the EIS Project Changes maps/plans). See this photo:

[ozbob]

^ thanks paulg