TODs (Transit Oriented Developments)

[colinw]

Nothing wrong with a high frequency busway to get a TOD going, as long as it is designed to cater for possible conversion at a later date, or provision of a 2nd mode to create an interchange is planned (e.g. Woolloongabba).

On conversion to light rail the frequency is likely to decrease slightly if anything.

[Derwan]

Doesn't matter does it? TOD can be based around any form of PT (Hence it being called TOD and not ROD), so long as it's high quality. Further development in Chermside could perhaps encourage them to get the Northern Busway extended to there sooner.

I think the point is that if you're going to plan not just a TOD but a major business precinct, it would be far more logical to place it on a train line. Trains are the real people-movers.

Add to this that the largest shopping centre in Brisbane is already located at Chermside - and pretty soon you realise that this is going to spell disaster for transport in the area.

The section of Gympie Road between Rode Rd and Murphy St is already a huge issue - especially on the weekend.  This has to be addressed before they consider doing anything else.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

CBD bulges as more move in

CBD bulges as more move in
Tony Moore
November 5, 2010 - 5:41AM

Overseas students and retirees are fuelling population growth in Brisbane's CBD, with 12,000 now calling it home.

While Brisbane's fastest-growing suburbs are in the city's east and south, the growth of inner-city living is the most dramatic change.

As revealed by brisbanetimes.com.au yesterday, almost 12 people a week, or 614 every year, are moving in to Brisbane's CBD, Spring Hill and surrounding areas.

Overall more than 6131 people moved in as residents of the Brisbane's inner-city CBD between 1999 and 2009.

Combined with Brisbane City Council figures that show the population of the CBD was 10,442 in 2006, the population of inner-city Brisbane was now estimated at about 12,800, up from just 3161.

Mary McLean has been the executive officer of the Unit Owners Association of Queensland for the past four years and worked closely with the organisation since 1996.

She said three trends have emerged - units are designed for couples not families, overseas students are increasing and people are foregoing the humble car.

"A lot of the accommodation now is just built for students and they have just small kitchens," Ms McLean said.

She said five of the unit buildings in Brisbane's CBD were mostly student accommodation.

"Some of them where the students are living are turning into ghettos," Ms McLean said.

"Down Albert Street, Mary Street, at the Parklands (apartments) there are Roma Street," she said.

"Some of them are really good, really brilliant, but some of them, but I have been told that some of them are sleeping in the bathrooms."

However, Ms McLean said she had no first-hand knowledge of such over-crowding.

"But I have been told it, often enough," she said.

Ms McLean said she knew of two apartment towers where the parents of overseas students bought the rooms for the children to use while they studied.

But she said there was a lot of very happy residents in the inner-city, despite a trend towards short-term stays in some of the long-term unit complexes.

She said many of the younger residents of the CBD lived without cars and relied on public transport to get around.

"I just think that the cost of public transport going to and from work got to some of them," Ms McLean said.

"That is the case for a lot of the older people and for the younger people who also like the closeness to the night life.

"And a lot of them don't even feel the necessity to have a car. They find they can live more cheaply, by just hiring a car for a couple of days."

The growth of inner-city riverside suburbs

   * New Farm: 8906 (1996) to 10907 (2006)
   * Kangaroo Point: 4871 (1996) to 7569 (2006)
   * Toowong: 12,856 (1996) to 15698 (2006)
   * Newstead : 1312 (1996) to 4837 (2006)
   * City Centre: 3882 (1996) to 10442 (2006).
   * Fortitude Valley 1619 (1996) to 5646 (2006)

[Jonno]

Chermside is a mixed use Town Centre (small CBD) not just a TOD and need urgent public and active transport investment.  Buses need to be in their own ROW snd BUZed or traffic is going to strangle the area ... if it is not already.

[curator49]

Quote - "However, Ms McLean said she had no first-hand knowledge of such over-crowding." Unquote

So called experts and people who are "supposed to know" make statements on hearsay evidence just fuels the fire. What she says may possibly be true and if so, the City Council needs to catch these landlords out and penalise them. She ought to get out there and sight the "evidence" herself.

Ms McLean also says people "are foregoing the humble car". I say this is a fantastic outcome and a major reason for these unit complexes. Shops, educational institutions etc are nearby you don't need a car. And "humble" she makes it sound as if one should have one.

If these unit dwellers wants to go to the coast for a day or weekend Central station isn't far away to catch a Gold Coast train or one to the North Coast with a bus connection at Nambour and such like. Obviously frequency and number of services might be a problem. Come on Translink!

[johnnigh]

TODs should reduce car ownership. The best designs I've seen, from Europe, keep cars on the perimeter and make it quicker to walk from home to shop or bus/LR/train stop than to use a car.
Contrast this with the Yeerongpilly TOD which has roads throughout and doubtless access to parking in the homes and flats exactly as the great Australian imperative. And to get to bus or train a walk beyond the perimeter of the so-called TOD is required. A TOD? Hardly.

[#Metro]

Good Point Johnnigh. It is still car-first.
We must go up one level- to TFD's. Transit-First Developments, where PT is at the centre of the focus (Like the posts of the Almere Busways) not merely "orienting" to transit.

[colinw]

Its a ROD - Road Oriented Development, with a token rail service plopped off on the periphery on one side, and a practically disused station (Tennyson) sitting on the other side.

[Jonno]

TODs should reduce car ownership. The best designs I've seen, from Europe, keep cars on the perimeter and make it quicker to walk from home to shop or bus/LR/train stop than to use a car.
Contrast this with the Yeerongpilly TOD which has roads throughout and doubtless access to parking in the homes and flats exactly as the great Australian imperative. And to get to bus or train a walk beyond the perimeter of the so-called TOD is required. A TOD? Hardly.

Johnnigh, looks like they have at least 2 submissions to the Yerrongapilly TOD saying exactly the same thing!      

[ozbob]

Minister for Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Stirling Hinchliffe
12/11/2010

Comment invited on planning for first lots at Yeerongpilly TOD

Draft planning documents for early release sites at the Yeerongpilly Transit Oriented Development (TOD) are now available to the public, Minister for Infrastructure and Planning Stirling Hinchliffe announced today.

Mr Hinchliffe said draft State Planning Regulatory Provisions (SPRP) for proposed units, townhouses and commercial buildings could be viewed online and all interested parties were encouraged to have their say.

"The draft SPRP will guide development for new residential units and townhouses south of Ortive Street, as well as a commercial office on Fairfield Road near the pedestrian overpass," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"This document relates only to the early release sites and provides the statutory framework to allow the first development to begin in early 2011.

"Development guidelines for the remainder of the site will be prepared later following further community consultation.''

Residents and other stakeholders have until January 3 to comment on the draft plans.

Member for Yeerongpilly Simon Finn said the local community had already contributed to two rounds of community consultation on the development.

"Community feedback is invaluable and plays an important role in shaping the future of this site,'' Mr Finn said.

"I again encourage all interested parties to have their say and help guide this important project for the Yeerongpilly community.''

He said TODs were mixed use retail and residential precincts built near high quality public transport with a reduced reliance on vehicles.

TODs are a key initiative of the Bligh Government's Growth Management Summit in March this year and support the delivery of a range of government priorities related to climate change, housing affordability, congestion, health and physical activity.

Mr Hinchliffe said Growth Management Queensland (GMQ) was committed to implementing TODs to manage growth and deliver high quality urban outcomes for Queenslanders.

"The State Government, through GMQ, is leading the way with a focused approach to growth management to help shape tomorrow's Queensland," Mr Hinchliffe said.

Copies of the draft SPRP are available for inspection and purchase from the Department of Infrastructure and Planning Brisbane office, ground level at 63 George Street Brisbane, or online at www.dip.qld.gov.au/tod-yeerongpilly.

Submissions can be emailed to yeerongpillytod@dip.qld.gov.au; posted to Transit Oriented Development and Design, Department of Infrastructure and Planning, Reply Paid 15009, City East, QLD, 4002; or faxed to (07) 3012 7731.

Written submissions about any aspect of the draft SPRP may be given to the Minister by any person from 12 November 2010 up to and including 3 January 2011.

==============================================================

[Gazza]

Hey, turns out we have Almere style principles here in Australia:
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-32.29184,115.756057&z=18&t=k&nmd=20101023

It's the Rockingham City Center Transit System, which links the train station to the town centre via dedicated bus roads and some bus lanes. 15 minute frequency, with a 3-9 minute connection between buses and trains.

[#Metro]

Hey, turns out we have Almere style principles here in Australia:
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-32.29184,115.756057&z=18&t=k&nmd=20101023

It's the Rockingham City Center Transit System, which links the train station to the town centre via dedicated bus roads and some bus lanes. 15 minute frequency, with a 3-9 minute connection between buses and trains.

Perth again!!!

[skippy]

From the Westside news

THE controversial Sherwood Graceville Neighbourhood Plan has been approved in council despite more than 600 submissions opposing five-storey developments in the suburbs.

Members of the Walter Taylor South Action Group descended on council chambers to hear the final death knell on their campaign against the plan to accommodate a further 202 people in the next 21 years in addition to the 1500 people expected to move to the area without the neighbourhood plan. "It degrades the whole area for very little gain," action group secretary Leigh Park said. "We want three (storeys) not five."

Walter Taylor South Action Group vice president Allan Howard said residents had not been heard in relation to density in the suburbs and they would be lobbying State members to act on their behalf.

Neighbourhood Planning Committee Chair Amanda Cooper said Cr Cooper under the draft neighbourhood plan, 88 per cent of the area would remain unchanged and the unique character of the suburb protected. Councillor Nicole Johnston (Tennyson) said for the past 18 months she had advocated for the community against high rise development in the character suburbs.

Cr Johnston said the plan was out of step with what the community wanted and was suspended from council chambers during debate. "I am calling on the Minister for Infrastructure and Planning to intervene and to send back the plan to Council for amendment to retain the existing densities and zoning," Cr Johnston said.

This shows how difficult it is in Brisbane to increase the population densities within walking distance of the rail stations. Imagine the resistence if Council proposed rezoning to permit 5 story developments near Doomben or Ascot stations. If land holders in the rezoned areas realise the new development potential they might change their opinion!

[#Metro]

202 people in the next 21 years

SHOCK HORROR!!! 

This is why massive 30+ story towers ARE proposed when the rare piece of TOD land comes along.

[ozbob]

Minister for Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Stirling Hinchliffe
10/02/2011

Coorparoo Junction and Eastern Corridor Plan get moving

Businesses, builders and suppliers interested in being part of the revitalisation of the Coorparoo Junction Transit Oriented Development (TOD) have been given an insight into the Bligh Government's vision for the site.

Minister for Infrastructure and Planning Stirling Hinchliffe opened the industry briefing, which outlined how the planning framework and proposed busway network at the site would make it a landmark development in Brisbane.

"I'm determined to get cracking on this great project and the level of enthusiasm from local businesses and industry at the briefing about what could be achieved at this site was very encouraging," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"I want to see this tired old building become a bustling precinct with shops, restaurants, cafes and even residential buildings, all integrated with the planned Coorparoo Junction busway station.

"This is part of our prompt response to build business and investor confidence by revitalising this unique site at the heart of Coorparoo, to stimulate the economy."

State Member for Greenslopes Cameron Dick said the proposed redevelopment of Coorparoo Junction would be fundamental to helping this key suburban site recapture its former glory.

"We're looking for a developer with the vision and experience to deliver a first-class concept at Coorparoo," he said.

"Expressions of interest are open until Friday March 18, after which a shortlist of candidates will be asked to provide concept designs."

The industry briefing coincided with the Minister's signing of Brisbane City Council's Eastern Corridor Neighbourhood Plan.

The plan is a joint project between Council, the Department of Transport and Main Roads and Department of Infrastructure and Planning to enhance recreational activities, employment opportunities and public transport in Buranda, Stones Corner, Langlands Park, Bennetts Road and Coorparoo.

Mr Hinchliffe said the plan would be an exemplar of high quality urban design, providing more efficient and better connected public transport routes, with new walkways and cycle routes to link key destinations.

"Ideally residents and workers should be able to access everything they need within easy walking, cycling or public transport distance," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"The site will be an integrated development, allowing people to choose to live and work close to facilities and services, as well as reducing their reliance on car travel."

==============================================================

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Urban village for Brisbane's east

Urban village for Brisbane's east
Ashleigh Austen
February 23, 2011 - 5:46AM

An urban village with a $1 billion price tag has been approved for Cannon Hill in Brisbane's east.

Brisbane City Council yesterday gave the green light to Anthony John Group's East Village development which will be similar to their Emporium precinct in Fortitude Valley.

The development will be located at the old CSIRO food sciences site on the corner of Wynnum and Creek roads.

It will include pedestrian connections to Cannon Hill and Murarrie train stations.

The master plan allows for 105 residential units, commercial buildings, a seven-storey boutique hotel, similar to Fortitude Valley's Emporium.

It will also feature retail businesses, parkland, a cinema and indoor sports facilities.

Development Assessment Chairman Amanda Cooper said the development is important to support Brisbane's economic recovery after the global financial crisis and recent natural disasters.

"This development will not only help us meet the state government's housing targets of 156,000 new dwellings for Brisbane but it will also generate jobs and big investment in the local economy," she said.

The village is expected to receive final approval when it goes before a full council next Tuesday.

[Golliwog]

Actually this reminds me, I saw an article for a set of 2 towers to be built in Kangaroo Point. Next to the Russian Orthodox church I believe, but near the GoPrint site so they will eventually be next to the 'Gabba CRR station when/if it gets built.

[ozbob]

Deputy Premier and Attorney-General, Minister for Local Government and Special Minister of State
The Honourable Paul Lucas
09/06/2011

Sod turning marks significant step forward for Circa Nundah

Deputy Premier Paul Lucas and Deputy Prime Minister and Federal Member for Lilley Wayne Swan today joined developers Property Solutions to turn the first sod at Nundah's master-planned community, Circa Nundah.

The sod turning marks the commencement of construction on the second stage of the development, which when complete will transform the heart of Nundah Village into a $271 million mixed-use development boasting offices, shops, apartments and a central plaza.

At the sod turning today, Mr Lucas said this milestone was another significant step in the transformation of Nundah's centre into a modern, accessible transit-orientated community.

"This project is exactly the kind of project the Bligh Government is encouraging - with integrated transport, shopping & businesses co-located where people live," Mr Lucas said.

"It has obvious benefits for traffic congestion and for people's lifestyles - cutting cars on the road and time travelling to and from homes and businesses, and most importantly with a strong link to the train station.

"Transit orientated development is an important component in delivering the Queensland Government's South East Queensland Regional Plan, with an additional 125,000 residents expected to call Brisbane home in the next ten years.

"Appropriate infill developments such as this help to protect our State's natural amenity and environment, whilst providing employment and housing opportunities for future generations.

"Circa Nundah will help contribute towards the 138,000 extra infill dwellings Brisbane is expected to deliver by 2031 to cope with population growth."

Mr Lucas said the construction of Circa Nundah would create 276 full time construction jobs.

Mr Swan said this development would transform the Nundah area, providing both housing and valuable office space away from the congested CBD.

"This development should provide a secure future for the many small businesses that call Nundah home," Mr Swan said.

"This investment right here in Nundah shows great faith in our local area and economy."

Circa Nundah is located on a prime 2.5 hectare site which borders Sandgate Road and Station and Aspinall Streets.

The initial stage of Circa Nundah - construction of a supermarket and shopping centre - is complete.

Work has now commenced on the second stage which includes an office tower and the first residential release, Circa One, which will comprise 84 apartments. This stage will be complete in late 2012.

Stage three will commence in 2012 and will include two additional residential buildings, Circa Two and Circa Three, comprising 225 apartments. New ground level retail areas will be created to complement the existing shopping centre and there will also be a central tree-lined plaza. This third stage will be complete in 2013.

Ends.

==============================================================

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Showgrounds makeover unveiled

[ozbob]

From Architecture and Design click here!

Brisbane lines up first Transit Oriented Development

Brisbane lines up first Transit Oriented Development

24 June 2011 | by David Wheeldon
Print this article Comments Bookmark and Share

Building is set to get underway on the first Transit Oriented Development (TOD) in Brisbane under a new Queensland Government plan.

The Milton Apartments were designed under the South East Queensland Region Plan 2009-2031 (SEQRP), the developers proud to be 'leading the way' in sustainable design.

Australian practice DBI is behind the design for the tower and mixed-used devolpment which will incorporate residential apartments, offices and retail.

A key element of the Queensland Government's SEQRP is the TOD, planning concept that sees the integration of a rapid, high frequency transport service with residential and commercial real estate, as well as spaces for community use.

The implementation of TOD has been identified as an efficient means of promoting public transport as a means of travel, while reducing dependency on cars.

The Milton Apartments development incorporates the principles of TOD into its design, with direct adjacency to the Milton Railway Station.

The Milton is two rails stops from the city, and one rail stop from the Roma Street Transit Centre, which connects the CBD to suburban Brisbane, as well as the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast.

The Milton Railway Station will also be the subject of a multi-million dollar transformation, including new public amenities and ticketing areas, increase visibility across platforms and improved access from Milton Road and Railway Terrace.

The railway station refurbishment will convert the existing station into a sleek modern environment that will not only encourage the residents of the development to use, but will also promote rail travel as a convenient and sustainable alternative to the wider Milton community.

[O_128]

15 mins really isn't high frequency

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Bowen Hills moves on up with 30-storey towers

Bowen Hills moves on up with 30-storey towers
Marissa Calligeros
July 15, 2011 - 3:00AM

Towers of up to 30 storeys high will soon start being built in Bowen Hill as developers snap up land in Brisbane's booming inner-north.

But ailing confidence in the property market has one company struggling to secure pre-commitment commercial sales vital to the commencement of construction.

Seymour Group is the latest Brisbane developer to outline its plans for a parcel of land in Bowen Hills, Brisbane's newest Urban Development Area.

The company has lodged an application with the Urban Land Development Authority to build a 22-storey office tower alongside the Bowen Hills train station.

The highrise could be one of several new transit-oriented developments for the suburb, heralding a new upmarket era for the traditionally commercial and industrial area.

Metro Property Group, headed by property baron David Devine, has also turned its attention to Bowen Hills announcing last month it had sold all 195 units in The Chelsea, on Hamilton and Tufton streets, since the project's launch last November.

Metro Property Group has been given the green light for another two apartment towers of 24 and 30 storeys in the suburb.

The developer's 24-storey tower on Mayne Road, which will protrude over the Edgar Street laneway, includes 242 apartments in total.

Although the taller tower, The Madison on Campbell Street, exceeds the ULDA's 24-storey general height limit in the precinct, the body's design panel said the additional storeys made the tower appear more "slender".

The ground level includes space for five boutique retail stores and food outlets and the tower is designed to house 286 apartments.

Meanwhile, Seymour Group's project will be the amalgamation of three existing lots from 58 to 66 Abbotsford Road.

The proposal includes a 16-storey commercial building on a five-storey podium and a new entry to Bowen Hills train station.

The ground level will include retail space with an optional indoor sports area.

The application comes nearly one year after the developer abandoned its plans for the old Milton Tennis Centre when Brisbane City Council unexpectedly bought the land to turn it into a park.

However, Seymour's development manager Daniel Farquhar said the Bowen Hills project would remain on the drawing board as long as the company continued to struggle to secure a major tenant for the site.

"We haven't pre-committed any tenants there and you definitely need to pre-commit tenants in Brisbane," he said.

"We're trying to get pre-commitments now ... but we're coming out of a global financial crisis so it will take some time for momentum to pick up.

"We're focused on preparing and positioning the property for the time when we have tenants."

Mr Farquhar said more transit-oriented developments (TODs) would follow the train line to the city's north.

"TODs will be successful even though they have been slow to start in Brisbane," he said.

The 108-hectare parcel of land at Bowen Hill centred around the train station and busway was declared a UDA site in 2008 with the accommodating 30,000 Queenslanders in high density development in the inner-city.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/property/bowen-hills-moves-on-up-with-30storey-towers-20110714-1hfva.html

[Jonno]

Selling point is uninterrupted views of spagetti junction

[Gazza]

TBH it would be pretty cool to look over it and watch cars go round like ants....Sort of like the Riverside expressway, it's an eyesore, but not.

[ozbob]

Premier and Minister for Reconstruction
The Honourable Anna Bligh
29/09/2011

BOGGO ROAD TRANSFORMATION MARKS OUR BRIGHT FUTURE

The Queensland Government has signed a project deed with Leighton Properties to develop the next important phase of the Boggo Road Urban Village development.

Premier Anna Bligh said that the $275 million investment was a sign of the confidence industry has in Queensland's bright future as inward investment gets set to send the State's economy soaring.

"This important milestone marks the go ahead for a mixed-use precinct in Brisbane's inner south-east, that will continue to transform the former gaol site into a vibrant, inner-city precinct," she said.

"But it is also a marker of the confidence in the Queensland economy. Developments like this are a sign of our bright future."

The redevelopment undertaken by Leighton Properties will occur in Dutton Park on land alongside the heritage-listed Boggo Road Gaol and the new award-winning Ecosciences Precinct, which opened earlier this year.

"The development will create around 1,843jobs across the life of the project, will take around five to seven years to complete," said the Premier.

"On completion the project will incorporate residential, retail, commercial, research and recreational facilities while still retaining and complementing the historic significance of the site.

"There has already been considerable investment within the village and its surrounds, including the Ecosciences Precinct, two public parks and the Boggo Road Busway Station.

"The Leukaemia Foundation Queensland are currently constructing a new facility within the Village, which will provide support services and accommodation for families affected by Leukaemia."

Minister for the Building Industry Simon Finn said Boggo Road Urban Village will stand out from other projects as a transit oriented urban development which is liveable, connected and sustainable.

"The site is well connected in terms of pedestrian walkways, bicycle lanes, buses and trains and has also been earmarked as a possible train station within the Cross River Rail project," Mr Finn said.

"Our city is growing fast, so we have to be smart about how we're going to manage that growth. That includes strategies such as building mixed-use developments close to public transport, and within walking distance to major employment centres."

Mr Finn said the Queensland Government and Leighton Properties will soon begin a process to investigate options for the possible redevelopment of the Gaol itself.

'The Gaol's future use will add to the historical and cultural significance of the Village, incorporating educational, cultural and commercial purposes, Mr Finn said.

Leighton Properties National Head of Commercial, Andrew Borger, said he welcomed the opportunity.

"The Boggo Road Urban Village project is a fantastic opportunity to honour the site's unique heritage, support knowledge-based research businesses and deliver a great outcome for existing and future residents," Mr Borger said.

"Over the next few months, while we prepare a development application for Council, we will build on the previous extensive community engagement already undertaken by the State Government.

"We will be working closely with the State Government and the surrounding community to ensure the site delivers a great outcome for existing and future residents.

==============================================================

[colinw]

That's all very well crowing about Boggo Road (or Woolloongabba, or the RNA re-development for that matter) but if CRR doesn't proceed to tie it all together with a decent rail service then the whole strategy is in tatters.

The current service at Boggo Road / Park Road is nothing to boast about, certainly not up to TOD standards.  As for 'Gabba and RNA ...  

[dwb]

That's all very well crowing about Boggo Road (or Woolloongabba, or the RNA re-development for that matter) but if CRR doesn't proceed to tie it all together with a decent rail service then the whole strategy is in tatters.

The current service at Boggo Road / Park Road is nothing to boast about, certainly not up to TOD standards.  As for 'Gabba and RNA ...  

For the current planned land uses i think the transit is totally acceptable. I then further think that if/when CRR goes ahead, more intensity and mix could be in the BRUV.

[SurfRail]

The current service at Boggo Road / Park Road is nothing to boast about, certainly not up to TOD standards.  As for 'Gabba and RNA ...  

To be fair, the bus service is phenomenal - just don't bother waiting for a train...

[colinw]

To be fair, the bus service is phenomenal - just don't bother waiting for a train...

You're going to have to count me as a sceptic on the merits of that bus service, due to personal experience with the darn thing.

Last year my sister spent an extended period of time in the PA Hospital after an operation, and I ended up using the busway  a fair bit to go visit her.  On several occasions I sat that the PAH busway station waiting for a bus, any bus, to arrive, while phantom departures counted down and were marked off on the PIDs. Alas these phantoms were not accompanied by arrival of actual buses with rubber tyres!  This was not a one-off, it happened several times.

I really like the S.E. Busway (congestion aside), but the secondary busways like UQ and INB have left me quite disappointed on most attempts at using them. Particularly the disconnect between promised services and what actually arives. Why bother having PIDs at all if they don't tell you what is actually going to happen?

As for the rail service ... urgh.  It is pathetic that you can be so close to the inner city and have such a bad service.

I do not rate any public transport service I have used in SEQ to be more than a "conceded pass". Mediocrity (and forceful defence of same) is the norm here. Must be a cultural thing.

[dwb]

The current service at Boggo Road / Park Road is nothing to boast about, certainly not up to TOD standards.  As for 'Gabba and RNA ...  

To be fair, the bus service is phenomenal - just don't bother waiting for a train...

Um, the airport services stop at Park Rd.... that means combined with other services, there are about 130 trains from Park Road to Central on an average Monday-Friday... with an average wait of 8m55s throughout the day or 5m47s during peak and 10m20sec offpeak.

How exactly is that can you describe that as "just don't bother"??

[dwb]

Why bother having PIDs at all if they don't tell you what is actually going to happen?

Um, so they get built and display what you want when the RTIP is implemented. Otherwise you'd then have stations without any screens and have to do expensive retro installation later on.

And on that logic, then you don't need the timetable displayed in printed format either, cos they don't run to timetable.

[colinw]

Um, the airport services stop at Park Rd.... that means combined with other services, there are about 130 trains from Park Road to Central on an average Monday-Friday... with an average wait of 8m55s throughout the day or 5m47s during peak and 10m20sec offpeak.

How exactly is that can you describe that as "just don't bother"??

Except they cluster so its 3 trains in succession then a 14 minute gap.

[colinw]

Why bother having PIDs at all if they don't tell you what is actually going to happen?

Um, so they get built and display what you want when the RTIP is implemented. Otherwise you'd then have stations without any screens and have to do expensive retro installation later on.

And on that logic, then you don't need the timetable displayed in printed format either, cos they don't run to timetable.

By that logic, its fine to display misleading or completely incorrect information, because its OK, we'll fix it later when we implement something. Get real!

Ah, never mind, its now less than 6 months until I get my license and can walk away from this shoddy 3rd rate mess forever.

[somebody]

That's all very well crowing about Boggo Road (or Woolloongabba, or the RNA re-development for that matter) but if CRR doesn't proceed to tie it all together with a decent rail service then the whole strategy is in tatters.

The current service at Boggo Road / Park Road is nothing to boast about, certainly not up to TOD standards.  As for 'Gabba and RNA ...  

The bus service at 'Gabba is pretty good.  I think a couple of times I might have waited 10 minutes at 10:30pm on a week night, and was surprised I had to wait so long.

The 109 at Boggo Rd is a bit of a joke though, given how much slower it is than the train.  A reasonable train service would consign the bus to irrelevance, largely.  I'd go so far as to say that you may not even need it - just run more 169s and other routes.

[O_128]

If I'm ever at boggo I always take the 109, it feels quicker and never have to wait to long.

[somebody]

If I'm ever at boggo I always take the 109, it feels quicker and never have to wait to long.

It isn't quicker Boggo-South Brisbane, but perhaps if you are heading to the west side of the CBD it might save on walking time.  The train does take 7 minutes from South Brisbane to Central which has a long walk to most destinations.  These shortcomings help the bus option.

[dwb]

Um, the airport services stop at Park Rd.... that means combined with other services, there are about 130 trains from Park Road to Central on an average Monday-Friday... with an average wait of 8m55s throughout the day or 5m47s during peak and 10m20sec offpeak.

How exactly is that can you describe that as "just don't bother"??

Except they cluster so its 3 trains in succession then a 14 minute gap.

OMG, fourteen minutes. You are right, this government needs to be thrown out now!

[dwb]

Ah, never mind, its now less than 6 months until I get my license and can walk away from this shoddy 3rd rate mess forever.

Your threats of leaving the system and never returning do little to move me.

[colinw]

That's ok, your persistent defence of the mediocre and the downright 3rd rate leaves me equally underwhelmed.

Merely pointing out that as someone who has been a lifelong non-driver and user of public transport BY CHOICE, Brisbane's system has got me to the point of giving up and joining the masses on the roads. Because I know that if I do that, I will at least be the recipient of a fair return for the taxes I pay. If the system is driving life long and formerly committed users away, what chance does it have of attracting new users?

[colinw]

Um, the airport services stop at Park Rd.... that means combined with other services, there are about 130 trains from Park Road to Central on an average Monday-Friday... with an average wait of 8m55s throughout the day or 5m47s during peak and 10m20sec offpeak.

How exactly is that can you describe that as "just don't bother"??

Except they cluster so its 3 trains in succession then a 14 minute gap.

OMG, fourteen minutes? You are right, this government needs to be thrown out now!

When did I say that?  Don't put words in my mouth.