QG - Rail Operations Review - Proposed Off-peak frequencies in 2010 and beyond

[Arnz]

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb9c3c4d5f95076/Pdf_icrcs_rail_operations_review.pdf 5.25mb PDF/

Refer to Page 26, where it shows the proposed intermediate frequencies in 2010.  One thing that caught my attention, is that Ipswich suburbans will be extended to Rosewood, and the Rosewood shuttles eliminated entirely.

2015 (Page 27) some improvements coming,

*Shorncliffe, Cleveland, Beenleigh and even Springfield is proposed to increase to 4 trains p/h in off-peak by 2015
*Beerwah going to 2ph with 1 train p/h going to Nambour, the other 1 train p/h heading to Caloundra.
*Rosewood (formerly Ipswich suburbans) and Caboolture remains at 2tph, but Caboolture effectively get 4 tph with the suburbans forming the 2tph, and the other 2tph formed by North Coast/Nambour and Sunshine Coast/Caloundra trains.

However, its not a suprise that the Ipswich/Caboolture (soon to be a Rosewood-Caboolture pairing) is to remain at 2 trains per hour in off-peak, but they travel on their own corridor (with the 2nd tunnel proposed in the western suburbs), yet other suburban lines are proposed to be increased to 4 trains per hour in off-peak.

Not suprisingly, Northgate - Darra will be 4 trains per/hour and will travel via the existing suburban lines, including weekends with the opening of the Springfield line.  Making its frequencies similar to a TUZ (Train Upgrade Zone).. *credit to BusAustralia forums*.

[ozbob]

Thanks for posting this Arnz.

There is a proposal to triple the line from Darra to Ipswich by 2020 (Redbank was the initial target but the reality of the situation has changed this). I suspect it might have to be done sooner.  Despite IPS not being explicitly mentioned in the above I am certain the huge population pressures on the western corridor particularly the IPS line will see a frequency of service that will be at least 15 off peak, possibly even higher.

Connecting Rosewood services will be 2 tph off peak, but I suspect there will be IPS services between those.

Cheers
Bob

[stephenk]

Thanks for the link Arnz!

Having a thorough read at the moment. It seems generally well written which is encouraging. However, 19tph required on the Gold Coast Line by 2026 - where did they pluck this fact from?

I will return with more comments after I finish reading it.

[Arnz]

In reply to the article, I have to say I'm personally happy with much of the plan, although I am dissapointed with a number of things.

*Doomben trains to remain 1-tph in 2026, this report fails to take into account the Port Hamilton development within the vincinity of Ascot and Doomben.
*No mention of possible triplication from Petrie to Caboolture, considering the traffic increases in 2020-2026 with Caboolture, North Coast, and Sunshine Coast (Maroochydore) trains in off-peak.
*Out of the 4 tph for Shorncliffe, 2tph terminate at Roma Street, whilst the other 2tph continue to Springfield, wouldnt it be easier just to go 4tph Shorncliffe to Springfield?

Some other ramblings.

Either I can't find, or there is no mention on handling the North Coast Line traffic beyond Caboolture in 2026, when the Sunshine Coast Line to Maroochydore opens in 2026.  Will the Nambour trains be truncated to Beerwah as a shuttle?  or will both trains be running through to Brisbane?

Although it may say 2tph for Caboolture and Ipswich/Rosewood respectively, I suspect Ipswich will be 4tph, formed by 2tph terminators, and 2tph continuing to Rosewood.

[brad C]

hi Arnz
Wrt triplication between Petrie and Caboolture, there is mention of this in the details of capacity building for each corridor.
The report suggests a 2 stage triplication, firstly Caboolture to Burpengary by 2020 and Burpengary to Petrie by 2024.
One wonders why you wouldn't construct all the section in one hit particularly with partial triplication already in existence at Narangba and the potential bottleneck at Burpengary with merging.
Note there is no mention of the Kippa Ring line and the effect of any services from this Branch on the already congested Petrie to Northgate section, which must be quadrupled if one considers projected frequencies and increased freight movements.

It will be an interesting exercise squeezing a fifth track between Northgate and Bowen Hills!!!

[ozbob]

Fifteen minute frequency off peak is desirable on all lines of course.  One of the major benefits is that bus integration becomes a bit easier.  For example if a connection is missed, bus to rail, the wait is not that long. 

The study exposes the folly of not electrifying the 4th line between Darra and Corinda as it is predicting a requirement for it by 2015.  Also the farce with the proposed single line section from Richlands to Stepham on the Springfield branch.  Let's hope this section is built as a duplication from the outset.

[stephenk]

.... I've finally got around to reading the whole study.

Some requirements that the study makes, that myself or others on the forum have pointed on many an occasion recently:-

Keperra to Ferny Grove duplication by 2010 - QG/QR current plans are for this to occur 2012 to 2016, it should have been duplicated with Mitchelton to Keperra in 2008!

Sandgate to Shorncliffe duplication by 2014 - QG/QR current plans by 2026.

Cleveland Line increased duplication by 2010, and full duplication by 2015 - QG/QR current plans by 2026.

Dutton Park to Banoon 4th track by 2015 - QG/QR just built this 3 track, oops!

4th track Corinda to Darra, and duplication Springfield branch by 2015 - someone tell them before it's too late!

These show that the Queensland Government's recent and current rail infratructure projects are grossly flawed.


Some things in this study I don't agree with:-

19tph on Gold Coast line in am peak 2022 - seriously? I very much doubt this many services would be required!

Beenleigh Line directions split between Tennyson and South Bank in peaks by 2026 - this would be very confusing!

Reversing time is often stated as minimum 8 mins, thus eventually requiring 3rd platforms at Ferny Grove and Cleveland - Many metro operators can reverse services in 2 minutes by stepping back train crews at termini. This saves having to build an extra platform, and requires one less train too!


Interesting notes:-

Coloundra branch by 2015 - this is currently a figment of QG's imagination. So I assume the Kippa Ring line is not going to happen then?

2 min signalling requirements - it is very difficult to get 2 min headway signalling from conventional trackside signals. Thus the signalling system will need to be replaced with a distance to go, or moving block signalling system. 

[ozbob]

The study sure does expose some major issues Stephen. Thanks for your analysis, must say I agree with your sentiments.

We continue to press 'behind the scenes' for electrification of the 4th line between Darra and Corinda, and a rational outcome for the Springfield branch.

I hope to head up north past Beerburrum later this coming week for a look around.

Something that I think is very important is the complete duplication of the line to Cleveland and Ferny Grove.  Staring at these examples and they still want a single line between Richlands and Stepham?   

It is a long slow fight ...

[awotam]

Pardon my ignorance, but where is Stepham?

[ozbob]

Howdy,

Welcome awotam! 

Stepham is the point where the planned line from Richlands (single line) goes back to a double for the run into Springfield.
It seems to be just before Springfield Lakes.

Cheers
Bob

[stephenk]

I have compiled a list of projects that according to the inner city rail capacity study are required by 2012. These are projects that Queensland Transport must start working on immediately to avoid (further) public transport meltdown !!!

Note: I have excluded projects that are already under construction as per advice in study.

2010 - Duplication between Keperra and Ferny Grove.
2010 - Extra stabling at Caboolture to support 15 min off-peak service.
2012 - 3rd track Lawnton to Petrie (or alternatively slow down services by a further 2-3mins).
2010 - Stabling at Thornside.
2010 - Duplication Birkdale to Wellington Point & Birkdale to Cleveland.
2012 - 3rd platform at Manly.
2010 - Grade seperation of Park Road junction.
2010 - 4th platform at Kuraby.
2010 - 3rd track Kuraby to Kingston.
2012 - 3rd track Kingston to Loganlea.
2010 - Stabling upgrade at Robina.
2010 - 4th track Dutton Park to Banoon (or alternatively slow down contra-peak Gold Coast service by 4 mins).

As you can see, the list is quite extensive!

[ozbob]

Some feedback received 14th October 2008

This morning the train I was on this morning (1D10 ex Caboolture at 7.00am) was quite crowded (people standing from Narangba - 35km from Central 41 minutes).  By the time it left Petrie (runs express to Northgate) there were at least 52 people standing in the carriage that I was in.

If this was repeated in all cars 796 passengers although experience has shown that except for serious cases, the first and last cars are usually slightly less crowded, so lets say 750.  When this train stops at Northgate and Eagle Junction a few passengers get off, but even more try to get on.  Delay due to shuffling people at both of these stations.  This is a regular occurrence and has not been fixed.

Have TTA done passenger counts for Caboolture and Ipswich lines before introducing the new services?

Are TTA doing passenger counts for Caboolture and Ipswich lines after the before introducing the new services?

Another issue, have they looked properly at the current capacity of the central city system?

E.G.. If the do they should find that with very little work they could get 65 trains per hour through Central each way.
That is 21 trains per corridor per hour.  They would require about 200 six car sets to achieve this as some of the six car sets could cover more then one service by running some short runs from places like Oxley, Corinda, Canon Hill, Sunnybank, Mitchelton, Zillmere, Northgate or similar to allow express running for trains starting from further out.

If they even allowed only 680 people per train, in the 2 hours of peak period, they would be able to move 101,400 in each direction or 202,800 for both ways.

Not bad.

Actually the services would perform more efficiently if numbers were restricted to 680 as this would reduce in transit delays by not having to shuffle people at stops on the way.

If you have a look at Perth for instance, they run 2 services every 15 minutes during peak.  They used to run more when they used 2 car trains, but now are using 4 and 6 car trains so frequency is less.  Did some consultancy work for them in the lead up to the Perth Mandurah line construction.

[stephenk]

E.G.. If the do they should find that with very little work they could get 65 trains per hour through Central each way.
That is 21 trains per corridor per hour. 

Is maths not taught in Queensland? As there are two tracks per direction through Central, then 21tph x 2 = 42tph, not 65tph.

According to the inner city rail capacity study, the maximum capacity with current signalling through Central is 19tph on the main line, and 25tph on the suburban line. 19tph + 25tph = 44tph. As far as I'm aware they are currently operating at 12tph and 19tph respectively in the peaks. However, I personally doubt that the suburban line can operate at 25tph due to 90sec platform reoccupation time at Bowen Hills, and long dwell times at Bowen Hills for driver/guard changeover. Thus the realistic capacity for reliable operation would be lower. The suburban line (Gold Coast, Beenleigh, Cleveland, etc) will probably reach saturation before the main line (Ipswich, Caboolture, etc).

[brad C]

One of the big problems at central is that the main lines only discharge into 2 platforms (5 and 6) with corresponding queuing back in the tunnels particularly from the north.
There only has to be a slight delay at Central on an up service and consequently you have a back up all the way back to Bowen Hills.
It was shortsighted that 2 additional platforms ( 7 and 8 ) were not constructed during the inner city quad.
In addition, there are no cross overs between the main and suburban lines at Central, unlike F/Valley and Roma Street.
In some ways these constrain flexibility.

[ozbob]

Thanks for the comments, very interesting thread.

Would this help? Presently trains travelling north to south (and south to north) through central have a wait period of around 5 minutes at Central. This buffer is very useful to keep on timetables etc.  Perhaps trains travelling north to south could be timetabled to have this period at Roma St rather then Central, this might help increase the flow north to south through the 4 platform stations.  This wouldn't work going north as most punters need to get to Central.  But perhaps if the it was done at Bowen Hills, this would cover the crew changes as well it might work?

Just some ideas.

Cheers
Bob

[Arnz]

Thanks for the comments, very interesting thread.

Would this help? Presently trains travelling north to south (and south to north) through central have a wait period of around 5 minutes at Central. This buffer is very useful to keep on timetables etc.  Perhaps trains travelling north to south could be timetabled to have this period at Roma St rather then Central, this might help increase the flow north to south through the 4 platform stations.  This wouldn't work going north as most punters need to get to Central.  But perhaps if the it was done at Bowen Hills, this would cover the crew changes as well it might work?

Just some ideas.

Cheers
Bob

Personally would be better to move the buffer to Bowen Hills in both directions IMO, IIRC not all crew changes occur at Bowen Hills, but a large amount of services do.

As for crew changes outside of Bowen Hills, I have witnessed that many Airport<>Robina services has crew changes at Beenleigh, whilst some Roma Street<>Nambour services has crew changes at Caboolture.

[stephenk]

Thanks for the comments, very interesting thread.

Would this help? Presently trains travelling north to south (and south to north) through central have a wait period of around 5 minutes at Central. This buffer is very useful to keep on timetables etc.  Perhaps trains travelling north to south could be timetabled to have this period at Roma St rather then Central, this might help increase the flow north to south through the 4 platform stations.  This wouldn't work going north as most punters need to get to Central.  But perhaps if the it was done at Bowen Hills, this would cover the crew changes as well it might work?

Just some ideas.

Cheers
Bob

Personally would be better to move the buffer to Bowen Hills in both directions IMO, IIRC not all crew changes occur at Bowen Hills, but a large amount of services do.

As for crew changes outside of Bowen Hills, I have witnessed that many Airport<>Robina services has crew changes at Beenleigh, whilst some Roma Street<>Nambour services has crew changes at Caboolture.

Keep the long dwells at Central. As the majority of passengers travel to Central, having the long dwell anywhere else would increase the average journey time. As Central has two tracks/direction on the suburban line, and a fairly decent platform re-occupation time on the main line, then it is a better choice for the long dwell than any other core section station.

[O_128]

All of this is very confusing.Thye inner city rail study says what must be done by 2012 but some are not schedualed until 2026. two teams seem to be working against each other!

19tph is absolutly ridiculous.2tph off peak is about a 2-3 id say maybe 4-6 would be needed.
on the coulundra spur 1tph is not enough as many passengers will be living at other stations wishing onlty to travel 1 stations 2tph is a minumum.

4 tph on springfield line is fine and they can continue to shorncliffe.
Beenleigh to fernygrove can be 4tph and cleveland to doomben can be 4tph to bowen hills and 2tph to doomben possibly even 4 with the massive development about to happen in hamilton.

On the cleveland line i would suggest possibly 3 platforms at cleveland,thornside,lota and manly.
Preliminary work for a 3rd platform has already ben done last year int he manly upgrade so all that really needs to happen is the platform built this will ease congestion in peak.

Also a quaduplication will have to be built from roma steet to park road and a possilbe 5th track built from Roma street to northgate.with 2 new platforms built at central  and 4 new platforms at fortidute valley.

Gold coast duplication needs to be brought forward to 2015,cleveland line duplication and shorncliffe to 2012.and an ipswich triplication aswell as the entire double track springfield line with springfield lakes and ellen grove complete by 2015.A petrie to cabooltuture triplication by 2020 and a petrie to northgate quadduplication by 2020.Ferny grove upgrades by 2012. And the kuraby to kingston triplication to be extended to beenleigh and to be complete by 2016.

these are easy targets if the goverment wishes to onvest properly.fore example the cleveland line upgrades could be paid for has the QR bosses not recieved that 18million bonus

[stephenk]

On the cleveland line i would suggest possibly 3 platforms at cleveland,thornside,lota and manly.

You only need a third platform at major reversing points. Thus there will not be a need for a third platform at Thornside or Lota.

Also a quaduplication will have to be built from roma steet to park road and a possilbe 5th track built from Roma street to northgate.with 2 new platforms built at central  and 4 new platforms at fortidute valley.

You would also have to build 2 more tracks along the core route for this idea. At which point you might as well build them along a new alignment to provide better transport options - thus resulting in the planned new cross-city tunnel.

fore example the cleveland line upgrades could be paid for has the QR bosses not recieved that 18million bonus

I think duplicating the Cleveland Line will cost rather a lot more than A$18m !!!

[O_128]

Just out of curiosity where can the brisbane rail capacity study be found?

[stephenk]

Just out of curiosity where can the brisbane rail capacity study be found?

At the top of this thread!

[O_128]

Oops 

[O_128]

After reading the possible freight curfew could this mean that the freight line between Wynnum north and buranda be electrified.Then a possible triplication from wynnum north to manly?

[stephenk]

After reading the possible freight curfew could this mean that the freight line between Wynnum north and buranda be electrified.Then a possible triplication from wynnum north to manly?

Apparently their is already a peak freight curfew, although given the number of freight trains I've seen during the peaks around Bowen Hills it must only be applied for a short period.

The dual gauge freight line that parallels the Cleveland Line does not have a curfew until Park Rd, thus if a port bound train passed through Park Rd just before the start of the curfew, then by the time the next inland bound freight train reached Park Rd the curfew would be almost over. If passenger service were to be run on an electrified dual gauge line, then this would prolong the curfew by up to an hour, something that wouldn't go down to well with those involved with moving freight!

The inner city rail capacity study suggests triplicating the Cleveland Line between Cannon Hill and Manly in 2022 to allow expresses to overtake all stations trains, this would make four tracks where it is paralleled by the dual gauge track. During off-peak when this additional is not required by passenger trains, it would be used as a passing loop for freight trains. Thus I would assume that this additional track will be dual gauge as well. 

[O_128]

With It saying that the express services may be cut. Bear in mind that some people travel across from the islands as well as red land bay and Victoria point they expect and express service it is the same as the ferny grove line some people travel from dayboro to get  the train.3 tracks between cannon hill and manly seems believable as there is room in this part of the corridor to accommodate the extra track.But they must be kidding them selves for a 2022 completion the line wont be fully duplicated until 2026 though the study says the latest it can happen is 2015.

[stephenk]

With It saying that the express services may be cut. Bear in mind that some people travel across from the islands as well as red land bay and Victoria point they expect and express service it is the same as the ferny grove line some people travel from dayboro to get  the train.3 tracks between cannon hill and manly seems believable as there is room in this part of the corridor to accommodate the extra track.But they must be kidding them selves for a 2022 completion the line wont be fully duplicated until 2026 though the study says the latest it can happen is 2015.

Express services eat up line capacity, and cause excessive gaps for those who use stations not served by the express service. Express services are an inefficient use of single and double track infrastructure.

Unfortunately, SE Queensland has a low population density, with many people commuting very long distances. So a balance has to be addressed between those who choose to live closer to work requiring a high frequency "metro like" service, and those who choose to live a long distance from work but expect to get there quickly.