Kuraby to Beenleigh capacity improvement (Logan - Gold Coast Faster Rail)

[Gazza]

Loganlea is getting upgraded to 4 platforms, as is Beenleigh, so that there is cross platform interchange between express and all stopper.
Clearly TMR intend for Loganlea to be an express stop.

Also, as demonstrated earlier, if you delete the express stop it puts Loganlea outside the 30 min isochrone for access to the CBD which contradicts something you have said

(The remainder of the stops are going to be an island platform with outside tracks)

At the present time, there already is an easy interchange between express and all stopper, actually largely in part due to the platform constraints at Beenleigh.

The express train from the Gold coast comes in and then departs.

The all stops train immediately follows out of the turnback so minimal wait to interchange.

Same happens in the southbound direction.
The all stopper comes in, then quickly moves into the turn back to get out of the way of the Gold coast express coming in behind, so the interchange time is minimal.

The GC train doesn't stop at Dutton Park, but it does stop at Boggo Rd, so hospital (And UQ) access is provided that way.

[ozbob]

I will be at Loganlea on Friday, haven't been there for a while.

[#Metro]

The GC train doesn't stop at Dutton Park, but it does stop at Boggo Rd, so hospital (And UQ) access is provided that way.

Likewise, access will maintained provided by more frequent Beenleigh line trains.

As before, the GC line will run ~ 100 km when it is extended to Coolangatta. It really shouldn't be making local stops.

I could understand the need to stop at Loganlea if Beenleigh line trains were running at 2 trains/hr in the off peak, but it becomes questionable if they were upgraded to run at 4 trains/hr. And the majority of passengers boarding don't seem to be heading towards the main Brisbane CBD stations (if I have interpreted Aldonius data right) but other Beenleigh and GC stations.

[Gazza]

(if I have interpreted Aldonius data right)

21% of Loganlea passengers are going towards another Beenleigh line station.

Thus 79% are going to a station on the express stopping pattern.

It's not really a 'local stop', it has a hospital and Uni and current planning is to make it into an urban hub.

I could understand the need to stop at Loganlea if Beenleigh line trains were running at 2 trains/hr in the off peak, but it becomes questionable if they were upgraded to run at 4 trains/hr.

But didn't you just say on the previous page?

The fact that the train might come every 15 minutes from every 30 minutes, or even every 5 minutes, won't change the fact that the trip overall from Central to ..... Loganlea will take 55 minutes .... This is a very unpleasant customer experience.

[minbrisbane]

I'm not sure why this is even being argued.  There should be a mid-point stop that is common with all services on the corridor, especially if it's a three tier model. 

[aldonius]

For clarity, I allocated Altandi, Loganlea and Beenleigh as Beenleigh line stations; if you allocate them as Gold Coast instead, that makes Gold Coast as 26% and Beenleigh as 13% of Loganlea destinations.

More importantly, about 58% of the patronage is going via Park Rd. If they lose their expresses they will be sad and might even complain about it.

[#Metro]

For clarity, I allocated Altandi, Loganlea and Beenleigh as Beenleigh line stations; if you allocate them as Gold Coast instead, that makes Gold Coast as 26% and Beenleigh as 13% of Loganlea destinations.

More importantly, about 58% of the patronage is going via Park Rd.

I'm not sure if I am interpreting this right. Are we talking destinations or services?

So from all the passengers at the platform at Loganlea:
- 34% are commuting to a station in the CBD (Roma St, Central, Valley)
- 21% inner southern stations (I'm assuming- Park Rd, South Bank, South Brisbane, is that right?)
- 21% to other Beenleigh line stations (e.g. Holmview, Woodridge, Kuraby, Altandi etc)
- 19% to the Gold Coast (e.g. Helensvale, Nerang, Robina, Varsity Lakes etc) (Not incl. Altandi)

And so via Park Road = 34% + 21% = 55% 

Have I got this right?
And we have about 5% unaccounted for. Is that just data being how it was published?

Thanks! 

[#Metro]

Version 4
- 4 trains/hour to Gold Coast Express
- 4 trains/hour to Beenleigh All Stops
- Common stations at Altandi and Loganlea (8 trains/hour)

Are we happy with this one?

[kram0]

My two cents on what I think MIGHT happen.

Off peak.

GC line all stations to Beenleigh then express to Loganlea, express to Altandi then express to Boggo Road. Four trains per hour off peak.

Beenleigh line, all stations to Kuraby, then express to Altandi then express to Dutton Park. Two trains per hour off peak. I see this as only two trains per hour as the patronage is low, but on the upside they are express so a significantly reduced journey time.

Beenleigh line (inner core). All stations from Kuraby to Dutton Park. Four trains per hour.

[timh]

Version 4
- 4 trains/hour to Gold Coast Express
- 4 trains/hour to Beenleigh All Stops
- Common stations at Altandi and Loganlea (8 trains/hour)

Are we happy with this one?

So....the current stopping pattern, unchanged ... Am I understanding this right?

Just higher off peak frequency.

So basically exactly what I (and others) said earlier in the thread ....

[aldonius]

Have I got this right?
And we have about 5% unaccounted for. Is that just data being how it was published?

Thanks! 

5% to other lines (Ipswich, Ferny, etc) and in paper tickets with unknown destination. Consider the 58% an estimate.

[Gazza]

My two cents on what I think MIGHT happen.

Off peak.

GC line all stations to Beenleigh then express to Loganlea, express to Altandi then express to Boggo Road. Four trains per hour off peak.

Beenleigh line, all stations to Kuraby, then express to Altandi then express to Dutton Park. Two trains per hour off peak. I see this as only two trains per hour as the patronage is low, but on the upside they are express so a significantly reduced journey time.

Beenleigh line (inner core). All stations from Kuraby to Dutton Park. Four trains per hour.

If you were to do that, would you run the all stopper to Woodridge, and run the express Woodridge, Altandi, Dutton park?

Kuraby doesn't really strike me as a logical termination point. With a quad you can presumably start running express from anywhere.

[kram0]

My two cents on what I think MIGHT happen.

Off peak.

GC line all stations to Beenleigh then express to Loganlea, express to Altandi then express to Boggo Road. Four trains per hour off peak.

Beenleigh line, all stations to Kuraby, then express to Altandi then express to Dutton Park. Two trains per hour off peak. I see this as only two trains per hour as the patronage is low, but on the upside they are express so a significantly reduced journey time.

Beenleigh line (inner core). All stations from Kuraby to Dutton Park. Four trains per hour.

If you were to do that, would you run the all stopper to Woodridge, and run the express Woodridge, Altandi, Dutton park?

Kuraby doesn't really strike me as a logical termination point. With a quad you can presumably start running express from anywhere.

Hadn't given it that much thought to be honest with you. I'd employ transportation planners much smarter than me to determine the best outcomes 🤣.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'd have to double check but it looks like trains will now be as fast as the 1997 timetable to Roma Street

IIRC they were doing sub 60 mins to Helensvale.

[aldonius]

Kuraby doesn't really strike me as a logical termination point. With a quad you can presumably start running express from anywhere.

I think it would be weird to have the express start at Woodridge and leave Trinder Park out. That also means that, oh, maybe 50% of express patronage would be Woodridge and Kingston (since Loganlea and Beenleigh have the GC express and Bethania-Holmview is so light).

I certainly don't think it makes sense to terminate the all-stopper further in, either. Banoon-Runcorn are a logical unit (so Altandi's out) and running express from Coopers Plains presumably would not save very much time.

So... consider Kuraby. It's a long way from Kuraby to Trinder Park, it's about where the BCC/Logan boundary is, and it makes the "Logan" tier a little closer to the inner tier for patronage.

[Gazza]

I think it would be weird to have the express start at Woodridge and leave Trinder Park out

Why tho? It's like saying its weird that Oxley or Lawnton are left out.

[#Metro]

I'm going to try run some numbers on this when I have time. We need to adjust for frequency rather than just raw train in-vehicle time.

Essentially what will need to be compared is:
- Gold Coast Express with passenger who does Switcheroo, versus
- Beenleigh Express with passenger who doesn't Switch (either by choice or just not knowing)

The main thing is that the Beenleigh Express train will essentially cover the same ground as a passenger on the Gold Coast Express train who then is smart enough to do a switch to an all stopper Beenleigh train at an intermediary station (Timh raised this).

Obviously, it never crossed my mind to do this myself (for me, a Beenleigh line station = Beenleigh line train, unless the GC train stopped also there)

Express from Altandi might make sense.

This gives the difference at about 7 minutes, there is probably some fat in that so the time saved by running express to Altandi and then setting down is probably closer to 10 minutes. You would then have further savings from the Kuraby-Beenleigh upgrade works as well.

BUT like everything else, the quantity matters so it will have to be worked out. I would consider running the express every 15 minutes all day just as a matter of good policy. Making the first express stop Altandi would give a good balance of stations on either side of the line.

[aldonius]

We don't necessarily want people doing a switcheroo though, especially in PM peak. It inflates demand on the GC services which then have to run all the way to Varsity Lakes.

Why tho? It's like saying its weird that Oxley or Lawnton are left out.

To an extent, sure, but "junction station is the express start" weighs more heavily. Here there's no junction station, just a tier boundary.

[aldonius]

Stations on the upgrade to be made 9-car capable:

https://twitter.com/lanson_the_wolf/status/1599948946721632256

I suspect this implies Redcliffe (at least the new stretch of the line) will also be retrofitted for 9-car service.

[ozbob]

^ might need to check that out with CRRDA.

[Gazza]

Just seems like a 17 year old talking sh%t to be honest.

The designs for the new stations on the GC have passive provision for platform extensions (was in the isometric views they had early in the consultation process) ,  would expect  much the same here.

[aldonius]

The designs for the new stations on the GC have passive provision for platform extensions (was in the isometric views they had early in the consultation process) ,  would expect  much the same here.

Yeah that makes more sense. If there's one thing about this current government, it's that they rarely build infra that's not needed on Day 1.

[achiruel]

I know a lot has been said about closing Holmview, but would it be a better idea to relocate it instead?

Near the corner of Grove Rd and Holmview Rd would seem to make sense. That way, it would be a little further from Beenleigh, and also you could whack a couple of on-street bus stops near the station to service 562/564/568 directly on their route rather than the current loop up Eddy Ave.

Which then makes me wonder if Edens Landing would still have a point to its existence. Doesn't seem to be in a position that would attract a lot of walk-up patronage.

Thoughts?

[Gazza]

I'm not sure how you'd get along closing Edens Landing. Its next to a retirement community so you can imagine them forming a bloc to oppose the closure.
Edens Landing could also service Holmview if they build a pedestrian bridge.

Moving Holmview...The old and new stations have a marginal difference in catchment from what is see, In fact in both cases its only 1/4 of the circle with actual housing.

The new Holmview location idea has better bus access, but TBH i think TL would still time them from Beenleigh in preference so how well the bus stop translates to a timed connection is unknown.

In my submission i had the idea of connecting Chapman drive to Holmview Road with a bridge to replace both LXs. Maybe  the station could go there, halfway

[SurfRail]

Eden's Landing would also be your connection from Tanah Merah if they ever bother to put in a pedestrian bridge over the river.

[Gazza]

https://spp.dsdip.esriaustraliaonline.com.au/geoviewer/map/planmaking

Switch on the "Future Railway Corridor" layer and the land requirements for LGCFR show up, and there are some things you can deduce from it in terms of where the LX removals will go.

[nathandavid88]

^^ A bit off topic to this thread, but looking at the future rail corridor layer of the map, there is a largish-looking space between Smith Street and the M1, across the line from the Parkwood Park N Ride. It almost looks like  a station-sized space, similar to Pimpama and Hope Island...



Getting back on topic, the land requirement around Holmview Station is quite substantial!

[timh]

^^ A bit off topic to this thread, but looking at the future rail corridor layer of the map, there is a largish-looking space between Smith Street and the M1, across the line from the Parkwood Park N Ride. It almost looks like  a station-sized space, similar to Pimpama and Hope Island...

Huh. It'd be a weird spot to put an infill station in that it would make the light rail leg from Parkwood to Helensvale kinda redundant right?

Maybe it's future stabling/maintenance facilities?

[nathandavid88]

Huh. It'd be a weird spot to put an infill station in that it would make the light rail leg from Parkwood to Helensvale kinda redundant right?

Maybe it's future stabling/maintenance facilities?

Doesn't look large enough to be stabling, and maintenance facilities for the NNGRs will be at Ormeau.

[SurfRail]

I expect that patch at Parkwood has been in SARA's system for a long time.

[achiruel]

Huh. It'd be a weird spot to put an infill station in that it would make the light rail leg from Parkwood to Helensvale kinda redundant right?

Not entirely. For train-tram transfers, probably, but don't forget there's also a lot of buses that use the Helensvale interchange.

IIRC, there was a plan for a Parkwood HR station a few years back, but I imagine the need for it has probably been negated by the LR station now.

[ozbob]

My City Logan News 21st March 2023 page 5
http://digital.mycitylogan.com.au/books/pqne/#p=5

Underground rail on track

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Trinder Park residents told to fix houses ahead of land resumptions for Olympic fast train line $

A dozen Trinder Park residents, whose homes have been earmarked for demolition for the $2.6 billion a fast train for the Olympics, have been told to spruce up their houses to get better compensation packages.

Residents of Acacia Rd and Laurel St, Trinder Park, said they were urged to "get in early" and apply to the state government for compensation for the land before the Transport Department issued them with official resumption letters, expected next month.

Laurel St pensioner Cheryl Love said her family was told to clean up their 640 sqm property and make the house presentable in a bid to get a higher valuation before the state took the land and demolished the house. ...

This also reported:

" ...TMR does not have any plans for an underground station at Beenleigh or anywhere on the project corridor.

It is anticipated TMR will provide an update to the community of the project design this year ... "

[verbatim9]

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1643899572039847936

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Questions over rail upgrade requiring hundreds of property resumptions

Business owners in Logan say they are being kept in the dark about the final plans of a multibillion-dollar rail project set to reshape the city.

Hundreds of homes, businesses and parks have been earmarked for resumption for a rail upgrade designed to cut travel time for passenger trains between Brisbane and the Gold Coast. ...

[ozbob]

MyCityLogan June 27-July 3 page 5

Faster Rail network in limbo

[SteelPan]

Can YOU Feel...the...WORLD CLASS! 

[Ari 🚋]

MyCityLogan June 27-July 3 page 5

Faster Rail network in limbo

For this much money and time you'd really hope they'd be able to get more than a few small improvements, but I guess not! 

[#Metro]

^ Precisely how many km of rail is actually being straightened here? From the newspaper diagram it seems just around Trinder Park.

[aldonius]

The newspaper diagram matches the published mapping. As you note, the only major realignment proposed is around Trinder Park.

They also propose platform straightening at most stations which should improve speeds a little.

I imagine the project team will be looking for opportunities to maximise curve easing as part of the necessary corridor widening.