Kuraby to Beenleigh capacity improvement (Logan - Gold Coast Faster Rail)

[aldonius]

That's what I think too.
You could run quite a 'clean' service to Flagstone if it was express Yeerongpilly to Boggo Rd (Note that I think the interchange station should be Yeerongpilly not Salisbury)

Why mess up a good new line by introducing a slow crawl into the city?

Also, with such a tunnel surely you'd have a three tier service long term. Kuraby via Merivale, Helensvale via tunnels, Coolangatta via tunnels. The S2K triple gets stranded though, I suppose.

[Gazza]

Also, with such a tunnel surely you'd have a three tier service long term. Kuraby via Merivale, Helensvale via tunnels, Coolangatta via tunnels. The S2K triple gets stranded though, I suppose.

Meh, the project also involved disabled access at the relevant stations, so at least we got that out of the s2k project, and say 20 years of use out of the triple.

[BrizCommuter]

Yes, and when is Salisbury to Beaudesert opening?

Im not denying the need for quad tracks, remember I said:

(Though not ideal in the long term to have Flagstone trains running all stations speed IMHO, and Flagstone should be the trigger for upgrades.)

What I'm saying is that Flagstone is the reason to have a quad, why not do the quad as part of that project?

It would have been easier to do the quad now, not later. The new 3 platform stations make it very difficult to add an extra track in the future.

That all said, quadding the existing surface corridor is mediocrity.
Perhaps leaving at 20tph initally is a fair tradeoff if a better alignment comes in the future, for example a tunnel extension.


*****

In a blooper, it appears the new stretton reserve estate has lots that will be impacted by the new alignment
https://strettonreserve.com.au/location/

But leaving it at 20tph means that CRR is a pointless white elephant.

[BrizCommuter]

At the risk of sounding foamy, maybe future plans for express Gold Coast services involve two bored tunnels from Park/Boggo Rd to Kuraby, thus eliminating the need for a fourth track on the existing section. The third existing track can then be used to allow Beenleigh trains to run express peak-direction while any Beaudesert trains run all stops.

There aren't any plans, that's the problem!

[BrizCommuter]

That's what I think too.
You could run quite a 'clean' service to Flagstone if it was express Yeerongpilly to Boggo Rd (Note that I think the interchange station should be Yeerongpilly not Salisbury)

Why mess up a good new line by introducing a slow crawl into the city?

But one line has to provide local services from Salisbury to Dutton Park. You can't give everyone an express service. With 3 tracks you have 24tph between the Gold Coast, Beenleigh, and Flagstone Lines. One of those lines will need to service this section in the peak direction with 6tph or more.

[Gazza]

I should rephrase.

In the ideal situation.

-GC trains have their own track pair and dont use the current surface tracks. Thats the key assumption.

-Beenleigh trains use one track
-Flagstone Express use one track
-Beenleigh counterpeak and flagstone counter peak on the remaining track.

[verbatim9]

Interview with the Transport Minister

[timh]

Interview with the Transport Minister

Around the 6 minute mark Bailey pretty much rules out any tunneling as part of the project, which is a shame.

[ozbob]

^ good interview around 8 minutes.

There is a lot of water to go under the bridge, it may turn out that tunnelling and/or elevation of rail may turn out to be an option for some sections.

I wouldn't exclude those options absolutely at this point in time. Things can and do change.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Railroaded: Trinder Park residents to lose homes as secret fast train plans revealed $

A Logan dad found out his newly built family home would be demolished, just hours after receiving the keys – he is just one of 21 residents set to have their homes knocked down to make way for a new train line.

The group of southside residents were all shocked to receive a letter from Transport and Main Roads informing them a new train track linking Logan and the Gold Coast would go directly through their homes. ...

[SteelPan]

Mark Bailey MP
The right bloke for the Queensland Transport Ministry Portfolio.....in 1972

[Gazza]

Question for the group....What do people think of shifting Beenleigh station back to the old site, 500m west?
The idea being is that you have to pretty much nuke the old station anyway, so you could build a greenfield one, and save a couple of hundred million by not having to duplicate the Beenleigh tunnel.

The tradeoff is that it's further from Beenleigh marketplace, (But the same distance from City Road)

But it is closer to beenleigh city square, the actual main street and a teensy bit closer to holmview, giving more reason to shut it.

And it would be further away from the stabling (But to be fair that situation exists at Kippa Ring and Robina)

******

I headed out with my stopwatch tonight

16min 30sec is how long it takes to get from Beenleigh to Kuraby, so thats our baseline.

[verbatim9]

That bus station needs to be replaced anyway, so there might be more room as a result.

Some do say move the station a bit further south to where the current stabling is.

When the bus station is replaced with a proper platform stop that adjoins the new station for seamless transfers. There will be lots of room for urban renewal and street scaping.

I also reckon that Beenleigh and Loganlea stations should be both fast tracked together, as well as ETCS. This will give immediate benefits to the travelling public and flexibility in train operations reducing delays, while quad work is on its way.

[SurfRail]

Is the old Beenleigh footprint big enough for 9-car trains?  It does seem constrained.

In practice I think we only need to worry about Beenleigh, Loganlea and whatever other station before Boggo Road that Gold Coast trains will stop at being able to cater to 9-car length.  Loganlea won't be an issue and I suspect not for the other stop whatever form it takes.

[Gazza]

Yeah you can fit 225m platforms:

[SurfRail]

^ Would certainly reduce any need to move the yard from where it sits now.

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[#Metro]

Some thoughts:

- Great maps and work Gazza (I am assuming this is your work)

- Are there more maps up and down this corridor?

- EXCELLENT station placing for Bethania, happily shocked! It is really good

- Any rebuilt stations, particularly for where Gold Coast line trains stop MUST be of a design that will facilitate future DOO. With this project it may be possible to introduce or at least move the needle/increment closer to DOO operations.

- We need to make these ideas more appealing, so when the alignment is closed, it should be repurposed as a green transport corridor for cycling, scooters, good lighting, feature tree planting. This will get Bicycle Queensland and Logan City Council on board with this - absolutely essential to have Logan City Council backing, and they might even throw in some $$ as it would be a major improvement to their urban amenity.

Finally, something practical and pragmatic to come out of DTMR - very pleased! Thank you Minister as well.

[verbatim9]

Regarding a joint submission, it is important to remain in scope of the project objectives and budget constraints. While other ideas of extensive tunnelling and new alignments away from the current one has it merits. We need to consider the implication that will have on other potential projects around the state. Hence Sunshine Coast duplication and extension to Caloundra. Sunshine Coast LRT and rail electrification out West to Toowoomba, the Ripley line, finishing the heavy rail extension to OOL, new electric buses and a East West mass transit corridor from Indooroopilly to UQ as stage 1 and airport bus services in Cairns. There is 1/2 billion dollars for land resumption and consultation. This should be enough to preserve a corridor with extensive straightening of the line to speed up travel times. The scope and objective of the project needs to include a specific target that includes travel time savings. e.g. 15 mins. Alternative ideas to the current scope of the project should be included as an alternative only, not as a preferred option. The project may need some tunnelling for level crossing removals, but not as extensive as proposed.

In reference to level crossing removals TMR/Translink did mention that feedback is appreciated in regards to Coopers Plains to Altandi. I reckon that TMR should consider moving Altandi station a bit North and remove Sunnybank station.

[verbatim9]

Some thoughts:

- EXCELLENT station placing for Bethania, happily shocked! It is really good

- Any rebuilt stations, particularly for where Gold Coast line trains stop MUST be of a design that will facilitate future DOO. With this project it may be possible to introduce or at least move the needle/increment closer to DOO operations.

- We need to make these ideas more appealing, so when the alignment is closed, it should be repurposed as a green transport corridor for cycling, scooters, good lighting, feature tree planting. This will get Bicycle Queensland and Logan City Council on board with this - absolutely essential to have Logan City Council backing, and they might even throw in some $$ as it would be a major improvement to their urban amenity.

Finally, something practical and pragmatic to come out of DTMR - very pleased! Thank you Minister as well.

I believe that some stations need relocation enroute. Driver only operations needs to be an objective and brought forward. TMR did mention repurposing the Trinder park section for active transport and leisure opportunities.

[verbatim9]

We need some benefits of this project brought forward, hence a staged approach. I believe stage 1, being ETCS 2, a new Loganlea and Beenleigh station with added tracks and possible new Trinder park section, as well as the Coopers Plains level crossing removal, with new alignment to a new relocated Altandi station (-Sunnybank) will bring enormous benefits.

[Gazza]

Contraversial opinion, It would be ok to delay other priorities if it locks in the best possible outcome here forever.

Once this project is done then you wont have to spend a cent between Kuraby and Beenleigh ever again.

I reckon that TMR should consider moving Altandi station a bit North and remove Sunnybank station.

Do you mean putting it on Albyn Rd.
Good idea, but one thing to keep in mind is that both stations are already accessible and upgraded, so works at these stations will be a lower priority than stations without lifts as a standalone project

However, one way to achieve it would be as part of a stones Rd LX removal!
Station Rd is an ideal spot for a road bridge.
https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.5802241,153.0541912,3a,78.7y,160.37h,89.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1BOhnX0E78C6MtKVUj4dWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Note there is a natural slope there where the road could cross the rail corridor with minimal ramping, basically at the same location as the station concourse.

So build a bridge where Sunnybank station currently is, and move Sunnybank station towards Atandi.
As part of this you might provide multi level parking, because its a common complaint, so this is a sneaky way of saying its a way to do it.

[Gazza]

Options for Nathan and Warrigal Rd. You would close Bonemill Rd under this scenario.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

Need for Speed on Logan & Gold Coast Faster Rail project

25th September 2021


https://backontrack.org/docs/loganGCfasterrail/140km.jpg

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said that the Logan and Gold Coast faster rail project needs to be built for maximum speed.

Gavin Seipelt, Southern Region Spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Currently TMR is conducting a study for a new pair of tracks on the Gold Coast/Beenleigh line, from Beenleigh to Kuraby (1).

"This 'quadruplication' will allow Gold Coast trains to overtake Beenleigh trains, allowing for more trains to run and save some time in the process.

"The project will also deviate the line at Trinder park to avoid some sharp bends, which should also create time savings. RAIL Back On Track believes the proposal needs to go a lot further, since there are plenty more slow turns further south.

"Ultimately the goal should be to make the Gold Coast line faster than driving, because at the moment it's not.

"The Gold Coast line is quite speedy from Varsity Lakes to Beenleigh, but becomes a bit of a crawl the rest of the way into the city.

"It's true that Cross River Rail will save a bit of time for Gold Coasters coming into the CBD, but on the other hand that will be offset by the extra stops opening at Pimpama, Hope Island and Merrimac."

So we really need to make sure the project locks in some substantial time savings north of Beenleigh.

"Really, it should be that express trains cruise at 140km/h for the entire run from Beenleigh to Kuraby, and the only time they should slow down is for the stop at Loganlea. If we just lay the existing tracks next to the current alignment that wont happen, we will permanently lock in lower speeds and the project will miss the mark."

RAIL Back On Track believes there are two big ideas that could make this dream a reality.

The first big idea is to send the express tracks on a viaduct over the Bethania floodplain, bypassing the middle of the suburb with a much smoother sweeping turn. This section would be built on pylons well above flood level, and would also involve reconfiguring and upgrading the fields at Waterford Rugby League Club to accommodate it.

The second big idea is to build an express tunnel tunnel for 5km, from Kingston to Trinder Park, passing under Woodridge
While tunnelling with multiple underground stations can be expensive in the middle of a busy city, it can be much cheaper in the suburbs.
Not only will a tunnel disrupt residents less, it will allow trains to hit full throttle as they rocket under the suburb.

All stops trains would continue to use the existing tracks on the surface.

"The reality is the Gold Coast is the biggest non capital city. We're spending billions widening the M1 and building the Coomera connector. If the government doesn't give this upgrade equally generous funding, they're joking around"

"Doing this right benefits over 800,000 people on the Gold Coast and Logan, it'll benefit people in Brisbane headed to the coast for leisure or work,  it'll benefit the Olympics, it'll attract more passengers and it will truly get cars off the road"

We encourage anyone who lives in Logan and the Gold Coast to get behind this and give feedback on the TMR project website and write to their local MP saying that you want this project to be built to a true fast rail standard.

References:

1. Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/Logan-and-Gold-Coast-Faster-Rail


2. Proposed fast rail route compared to existing line


https://backontrack.org/docs/loganGCfasterrail/fastrailcompared.jpg

3. New Bethania Viaduct


https://backontrack.org/docs/loganGCfasterrail/bethaniaviaduct.jpg

4. New Woodridge Tunnel


https://backontrack.org/docs/loganGCfasterrail/woodridgetunnel.jpg

Contacts:

Gavin Seipelt
Southern Region Spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[#Metro]

^ The ampersand in the title - it says Logan Gold

[ozbob]

^ The ampersand in the title - it says Logan Gold

Thanks, fixed.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1441831484168437760

[Gazza]

Someone who knows more about signalling than I could answer, but if you left the beenleigh tracks where they are and build a deviation, that means you would only need ETCS on the new tracks...There is probably less immediate benefit in installing it on the Beenleigh local tracks since they wont be heavily trafficked.

[verbatim9]

Someone who knows more about signalling than I could answer, but if you left the beenleigh tracks where they are and build a deviation, that means you would only need ETCS on the new tracks...There is probably less immediate benefit in installing it on the Beenleigh local tracks since they wont be heavily trafficked.

ETCS 2 is needed network wide or across an entire line to allow for safe Driver Only Operations to improve efficiency and reduce running costs into the future. It also allows trains to run closer together as computers automatically adjust the speed of the train to run at a safe distance with compromising safety. Hence trains can safely run 3-5 mins apart without stopping or slowing to a crawl.

I also believe that RBOT's policy recommends a network wide rollout of ETCS 2.

[MTPCo]

ETCS 2 is needed network wide or across an entire line to allow for safe Driver Only Operations to improve efficiency and reduce running costs into the future. It also allows trains to run closer together as computers automatically adjust the speed of the train to run at a safe distance with compromising safety. Hence trains can safely run 3-5 mins apart without stopping or slowing to a crawl.

Well, almost. ETCS2 is an in-cab fixed signalling implementation with Automatic Train Protection (ATP). This means that the individual blocks are still fixed, but you don't have sighting issues to contend with. The ATP stops a train from exceeding its authority (the equivalent of passing a red signal), and it keeps the train from exceeding the line speed (as opposed to the speed automatically being adjusted to run at a safe distance, which more implies moving block). There is - despite the popular belief - almost no relationship between DOO and ETCS2 at all.

Someone who knows more about signalling than I could answer, but if you left the beenleigh tracks where they are and build a deviation, that means you would only need ETCS on the new tracks...There is probably less immediate benefit in installing it on the Beenleigh local tracks since they wont be heavily trafficked.

It is a conundrum, because you wouldn't want to build an outdated signalling implementation on new tracks, but from a human factors perspective you also wouldn't want a stranded section of ETCS2 (drivers changing from the ATP-enabled ETCS2 section to an unprotected conventional signalling section is a possible cause of accidents). It would almost have to be a case that the whole line was ETCS2 before that call was made (which it should be anyway).

[Gazza]

True, but isn't the transition from old to new happening at the moment? For example Cleveland, FG etc?
Then again, if Beenleigh is going to run through CRR then yeah you wouldnt want to have an isolated section...

[MTPCo]

True, but isn't the transition from old to new happening at the moment? For example Cleveland, FG etc?

Yes, which will presumably cause a similar impact and require a treatment, as is the case wherever a changeover occurs. However there are more compelling reasons to ETCSify the core - higher capacity provided, ATP through the most intensely used section of the network with the most complex junctions, etc - which do not present on providing two express running tracks. That isn't to say that it shouldn't be ETCS2 (for avoidance of doubt, I think the entirety of the suburban system should be converted), but it would be very complicated having an isolated section (or even part of a section, if only the new tracks had it) in the outer network.

[ozbob]

Agree MTPCo, entire Citytrain network should be upgraded for ETCS.

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament E-Petition

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-the-Assembly/Petitions/Petition-Details?id=3663

OBJECTION TO THE RELOCATION OF TRINDER PARK STATION

TO: The Honourable the Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of Queensland
Queensland residents draws to the attention of the House the objection to the proposed $356.2 million rail corridor upgrade between Kuraby and Beenleigh.

The relocation of Trinder Park train station to Acacia Reserve bordering Karawatha Forest will have a detrimental effect on the local community and cause environmental harms.

The Department of Main Roads ('TMR') have a duty to protect endangered native flora and fauna. The acquisition of land will leave many home owners in a vulnerable position in the current market.

The relocation moves the station away from the majority of the population, hindering access to an integrated and sustainable transport network. This will create difficulty for communities and the disadvantaged to connect with jobs, businesses, hospitals, medical facilities, education, shopping, entertainment and sporting centres making it not fit for purpose.

There has been limited public awareness or communication detailing the relocation and the significant distance from the existing venue or the significant harms it will cause. The TMR survey's allowed no provisions for objections, limited consultations at Trinder Park and no independent environmental impact statement report. A comprehensive human rights approach to respect and protect from all harmful interference and allow assurance of full enjoyment of life is required.

Your petitioners, therefore, request the House to do all in its power to cease acquisitions of properties, use the existing rail corridor at Trinder Park, provide additional public awareness and community feedback, produce an independent environmental impact statement report.

[verbatim9]

There is always going to be minimal environmental impact with construction of rail and roads. The community needs to be happy, as the area will be transformed with segregated active transport links to and from the new station and along the old rail corridor.

The new station will also provide better access to Kawatha  forest walking and mountain bike trails.

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

[Jonno]

Why does Tinder Park Need to move? Too close to Woodridge?

[ozbob]

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/_/media/projects/l/logan-and-gold-coast-faster-rail/factsheet-1---kuraby-to-wembley.pdf

Track is being straightened.

[verbatim9]

That's going to make a huge improvement.

[Jonno]

Station is currently where they have Crossing Removal.  It is very close to Woodridge and catchment could be better served if spaced better!  Key selling point