BCC proposal for Gold CityGlider - Hamilton to Woolloongabba

[verbatim9]

New Gold Hamilton Skygate Glider ---->https://www.facebook.com/100058163585375/posts/214646463817472/

[ozbob]

BCC Lord Mayor's 2021-22 Budget speech
https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021-06/20210616%20-%20CFB%20-%20EPM%20-%20BP%20-%20Bud%20Dev%20-%20LM%20Budget%20Speech%202021-22%20-%20FINAL.docx

" ... We're also undertaking planning for a new addition, the Gold CityGlider, which will – with state approval – take commuters from Hamilton to Woolloongabba. ... "

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/team_schrinner/status/1404972964907405312

[nathandavid88]

Interestingly, the proposed Gold Glider will run through the Gardens end of the CBD and up Eagle Street, rather than going via Adelaide Street.

"Under this exciting proposal a dedicated service would connect the fast-growing area of Hamilton to Woolloongabba, via Fortitude Valley and the Eagle and Mary street end of the CBD," Cr Schrinner said.

https://vickihoward.com/goldglider/?fbclid=IwAR3tZblKXtVZI-dL6rW4esyrlzKfBDzE2vldOfyTY65juz1beBb_EBR4mu0

[verbatim9]

Hopefully it will go to Skygate as well. It would ensure constant growth in patronage, by linking a 24 hour precinct and the Airport with the Valley CBD and Gabba.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/bne_lordmayor/status/1405040661187895298

[verbatim9]

I reckon a good name for this proposed Glider service is the "Silver Skygate Glider".

But I think they thought of Gold because of the Olympics "Go for Gold" "Go for another Glider service".

[verbatim9]

^^This Glider service seems to tie in with recent articles from BAC hinting at extra mass transit options to and from the airport precinct.

[Cazza]

$94,000 to determine whether a bus route is feasible or not? Is this some kind of joke? Council, if you're reading this, pay me $30 an hour and I can literally do everything for you in 2 hours, from route planning to stop locations to even getting a base headway timetable organised.

That'll cost $60. So where is the other $93,340 being spent?

In all seriousness (although my first point did have a hint of seriousness about it- Council: if you're looking for a network planner, hit me up ), it doesn't take a whole lot of research and investigating to realise that Hamilton is completely under-serviced for the population that is currently there and will continue to grow in the very near future. And why does this have to be a hugely politicised move?

You don't need to run a specially branded bus to try and get people on board - just provide a decent BUZ coverage with reliable services and then the patronage will do the talking!

Tonight was a prime example. The traffic was the worst I've seen in years (except for COVID obviously). The sheer lack of bus priority off the busway network is abysmal and shameful. There're 2 blatant reasons (among a multitude of other mind you) why car is king in Brisbane:
1- the uneven distribution of public transport resources across the suburbs- obvious and necessary duplication down some corridors, with others lucky to see more than 2 bph at the best of times. You don't live within walking distance to a BUZ stop or train station? Tough t!ts, the car is pretty much your only option. Even if you lived close to a frequent service, unless you're travelling into the CBD there's really no point in using PT.
2- the absence of bus priority on surface streets. It's clear that because buses get stuck in the same traffic as everyone else, there genuinely is no reason to catch the bus (except for those like me who actually enjoy it). Would you rather be sitting in traffic on a bus or the comfort of your own car? For most, the answer is extremely clear.

It's not necessarily about making PT the best option for every journey (because that is pretty much physically impossible), it's about providing viable alternatives to driving. And to do this, you need to make journeys (actually doable in the first place, but after we get over that first hurdle) competitive with the car. Bus lanes are one of the cheapest, yet most effective tools at Council's disposable to see a radical shift from car to bus. Hands down. Why they do not use them? I really don't know.

We need to invest in our public transport network to come to sensible and practical solutions, not politicised bus services. Until we get past the fact that public transport is more than just an election tool in an attempt to boost the public's view on a party, we will get no where - from a social, economic and commuting sense.

[#Metro]

Maybe we need to put up a paywall 😂

Ordinary users - free, government users must subscribe!

Perhaps the new bus network proposal was worth a few million 🤪

PS: The glider should go to Toombul.

[achiruel]

I dunno...do we really need another Glider through Newstead/Fortitude Valley? If they want to service Eagle St etc precinct better, why not extend the hours of the City Loop bus?

I understand the need to service Hamilton better but much of the route seems like pointless duplication, but I guess that's in the basic DNA of BCC these days. What will happen to 305/300 if this goes ahead? They stay around and get ignored, or resources deployed to areas where they're needed more?

[verbatim9]

The new Glider could take this preferred route to Skygate or the alternative via Nudgee road which may mean delays due to heavy traffic along that corridor.

[verbatim9]

This will allow for patronage growth from Skygate and the Airport precinct catchment, as well as connecting the proposed athletes village at Hamilton Northshore.

It also has the potential to connect day tourists and commuters alike from the Airport precinct to the ferry stop at Hamilton Northshore.

[Gazza]

But I think its probably better to go on Nudgee Rd so you get extra walk up passengers, plus people might want to just get to Doomben station, or the woolies just up the road.
The Gateway gets heavy traffic too anyway.

[verbatim9]

But I think its probably better to go on Nudgee Rd so you get extra walk up passengers.
The Gateway gets heavy traffic too anyway.

The proposed route is not going over the along Gateway route.

[verbatim9]

Just some opinions and thoughts of the overall concept of Glider services.

They are colour coded and easily identifiable for both commuters and casual users. They mimic proposed (underground metro) routes with the span of operating hours to match. This is why the patronage growth is so strong and remains popular with the travelling public.

Yes, general bus route reform is still coming prior to Metro services starting.

[SurfRail]

This is getting beyond parody.

Can we fix the bus network's underlying problems without tacking things on every election?

[Gazza]

But I think its probably better to go on Nudgee Rd so you get extra walk up passengers.
The Gateway gets heavy traffic too anyway.

The proposed route is not going over the along Gateway route.

Old gateway i meant

[#Metro]

What is the proposed route? Did BCC learn anything from the Maroon Glider or will it be a rerun.

[ozbob]

^ rerun ...

[Gazza]

I think what's gonna happen is that it will terminate at Wooloongabba since that spur is missing from the current metro plans.

So Basically it would be KSD, Valley, City, Then down Queen St, Eagle St, Mary St (Stopping at CRR station), then Queens Wharf via george st, Bridge, Cultural Center, Southbank, Mater Hill, Gabba.

[Cazza]

I could be wrong, but I assumed it as going direct over the CCB using the Margaret St off-ramp/Alice St on-ramp.

[#Metro]

Can we please ask BCC for a map?
Might contain 'surprises' 😅

[achiruel]

This is getting beyond parody.

Can we fix the bus network's underlying problems without tacking things on every election?

I could be wrong, but I assumed it as going direct over the CCB using the Margaret St off-ramp/Alice St on-ramp.

I would tend to agree, it would be odd to travel via Eagle St and then over the VB.

[verbatim9]

What is the proposed route? Did BCC learn anything from the Maroon Glider or will it be a rerun.

I guess it's still early stages and a completed business case will help enlighten many.

[verbatim9]

This is getting beyond parody.

Can we fix the bus network's underlying problems without tacking things on every election?

Is this decision really associated with  electioneering? Both the State and Local elections are not due until 2024. Is the Federal Government partly funding this initiative? Has Trevor Evans put his face along side this? No. This decision has obviously come about due to the completion of Kingsford Smith Drive and the need for better PT to Hamilton and maybe Skygate.

[verbatim9]

PS: The glider should go to Toombul.

Toombul interchange is a pain and the 7 day congestion along Sandgate Road and Nudgee Road is not good for proposed Glider services. There are enough buses going to Toombul interchange already. Translink and TMR want to move the interchange to the Toombul station side to increase capacity and alleviate access issues.

[Gazza]

I could be wrong, but I assumed it as going direct over the CCB using the Margaret St off-ramp/Alice St on-ramp.

Ah true that probably makes sense but it would be stupid too because if you want to get from Alice Street to the Gabba you should use CRR.

[#Metro]

Ah true that probably makes sense but it would be stupid too because if you want to get from Alice Street to the Gabba you should use CRR.

Ahhh, yes this sounds like a classical Brisbane City Council designed bus route; complete with trademark bus-train competition and associated financial waste/inefficiency.

I'm surprised the Auditor-General hasn't reviewed Brisbane Transport/Transport for Brisbane and squarely questioned why bus contracts, even for private bus operators on the Translink network, are not periodically put to public tender.

[achiruel]

PS: The glider should go to Toombul.

Toombul interchange is a pain and the 7 day congestion along Sandgate Road and Nudgee Road is not good for proposed Glider services. There are enough buses going to Toombul interchange already. Translink and TMR want to move the interchange to the Toombul station side to increase capacity and alleviate access issues.

Have you looked at the congestion on Southern Cross Way lately? And yeah, the best argument I've ever heard is that a road is congested therefore it doesn't need a bus service. Probably even more reason it needs a bus service. As for DFO, it's more than adequately served by the 590.

[SurfRail]

This is getting beyond parody.

Can we fix the bus network's underlying problems without tacking things on every election?

Is this decision really associated with  electioneering? Both the State and Local elections are not due until 2024. Is the Federal Government partly funding this initiative? Has Trevor Evans put his face along side this? No. This decision has obviously come about due to the completion of Kingsford Smith Drive and the need for better PT to Hamilton and maybe Skygate.

Since it doesn't seem to be part of the planning undertaken by the State Government body responsible for public transport, and comes with proprietary get-up and gimmicks owned by the proponent, I'll let reasonable people draw their own conclusions.

[#Metro]

Since it doesn't seem to be part of the planning undertaken by the State Government body responsible for public transport, and comes with proprietary get-up and gimmicks owned by the proponent, I'll let reasonable people draw their own conclusions.

Well put SurfRail.

[BrizCommuter]

Ah true that probably makes sense but it would be stupid too because if you want to get from Alice Street to the Gabba you should use CRR.

Ahhh, yes this sounds like a classical Brisbane City Council designed bus route; complete with trademark bus-train competition and associated financial waste/inefficiency.

I'm surprised the Auditor-General hasn't reviewed Brisbane Transport/Transport for Brisbane and squarely questioned why bus contracts, even for private bus operators on the Translink network, are not periodically put to public tender.

BCC stepping all over TransLink yet again. Given the changes to CRR I don't think the Auditor General understands how public transport works.

What happened to the extension of the Maroon CityGlider from Ashgrove to Enoggera (the Pork Barrel Glider) that only gets mentioned at state elections?

[Gazza]

PS: The glider should go to Toombul.

Toombul interchange is a pain and the 7 day congestion along Sandgate Road and Nudgee Road is not good for proposed Glider services. There are enough buses going to Toombul interchange already. Translink and TMR want to move the interchange to the Toombul station side to increase capacity and alleviate access issues.

I just wanted to address this point.
if Nudgee Road and Sandgate Road have congestion it's because people want to go there, so what are you achieving by not servicing a corridor with high travel demand?

[#Metro]

BCC stepping all over TransLink yet again. Given the changes to CRR I don't think the Auditor General understands how public transport works.

[James]

What a ridiculous proposal!

We already have plenty of buses running between the Valley and the CBD, all an infrequent shambles departing from various side streets. There is already a bus route servicing this area - it is called Route 300. Upgrade that before we go off layering bus routes on top of each other.

The only bright spot here is the Riverside Precinct & Queens Wharf getting a full-time bus service, although this could be as easily achieved in 2023 by running 300 series BUZ routes and terminating them down near Parliament and getting a decent BUZ service down Elizabeth Street (Route 210 BUZ, anyone?).

[HappyTrainGuy]

PS: The glider should go to Toombul.

Toombul interchange is a pain and the 7 day congestion along Sandgate Road and Nudgee Road is not good for proposed Glider services. There are enough buses going to Toombul interchange already. Translink and TMR want to move the interchange to the Toombul station side to increase capacity and alleviate access issues.

I just wanted to address this point.
if Nudgee Road and Sandgate Road have congestion it's because people want to go there, so what are you achieving by not servicing a corridor with high travel demand?

Sandgate road has congestion as it's a main thrufare corridor with minimal trip generators along it. If it was a popular route the 306/322 wouldn't be hourly routes with different terminus locations depending on the day and time of day. Does it go to Chermside? Does it go to Nudgee?? Need a timetable to confirm just like the 357/359/338 mess at Albany Creek. Nudgee road congestion is due to rat runners that jump to it avoiding Sandgate road. Not to mention a lot of people in that area drive everywhere. Just check out the congestion at the Clayfield markets on Sandgate road on a weekend morning. You'd swear it was monday peak hour but its full of BMWand Audi drivers that don't know how to drive let alone trying to park to get some organic veg. Same thing outside the new Woolworths at Doomben with it being mayhem on a Sunday arvo before it closes.

What actually is needed for the area is a proper pt network and not just shoving more routes in. People don't use PT in these areas for a reason.

[#Metro]

Gold CityGlider (click image to enlarge)

- RBOT needs to reach out to BCC
- There is a need for bus layover capacity within South Brisbane/Wooloongabba area generally. Possibly also near RBWH to capture Valley terminating services (they terminate in the Valley because that's what the tram did in 1969 with the Light St Depot IMHO). Buses need to sit around somewhere after they terminate at Cultural Centre. Wooloongabba is good as it would connect with CRR. However, a new depot at South Brisbane/West End would also work well as there are plenty of large industrial sites in that area.

For the Gold CityGlider, this has been on the cards in some form since 2007 with the Lord Mayor's Mass Transit Report.
It has been a long time coming (1).

IMHO amalgamation of Route 300 Toombul with the Gold CityGlider would work very well.

- Some stops would be removed to speed up the service
- The route could be tidied up
- Far better access to the area, including rail connections
- Service should travel via Adelaide Street to permit connection with the other CityGliders (Blue and Maroon). CRR and the loop bus will handle the other parts of the CBD.
- A common route from Cultural Centre through Fortitude Valley is not a huge concern. Yes it is duplication, but with services now every 2.5-5 minutes, the combined frequency is effectively the same or better than LRT. This means that OTHER routes can start to be considered for termination elsewhere.

Although BCC wants to have the service terminate at Portside no doubt, PT service to this area can be achieved by rerouting the 305 Bus which currently originates at Ascot Station (odd place to start a bus route) to originate within the Portside Precinct.

- An alternative is to extend the Blue CityGlider to Portside, which could also work well. Yes, the Tenneriffe/Bulimba folk would be inconvenienced but that whole Bulimba area would have alternatives and they should get a BulimbaGlider as well.



Reference
(1) http://docplayer.net/28219278-Lord-mayor-s-taskforce-brisbane-mass-transit-investigation-september-2007.html

[aldonius]

- An alternative is to extend the Blue CityGlider to Portside, which could also work well. Yes, the Tenneriffe/Bulimba folk would be inconvenienced but that whole Bulimba area would have alternatives and they should get a BulimbaGlider as well.

I'd say it goes beyond "inconvenience". As I've mentioned before, the boardings at Tenerife Ferry and at Skyring Tce near Cunningham St (i.e. at Gasworks) - just two stops - add up to the total boardings on the ENTIRE 300... plus another 40%.

Actually, if you take away the City and Valley boardings from the 300, the Gasworks stop alone does more than the remainder of the 300.

[#Metro]

I'd say it goes beyond "inconvenience". As I've mentioned before, the boardings at Tenerife Ferry and at Skyring Tce near Cunningham St (i.e. at Gasworks) - just two stops - add up to the total boardings on the ENTIRE 300... plus another 40%.

Actually, if you take away the City and Valley boardings from the 300, the Gasworks stop alone does more than the remainder of the 300.

What's stopping them walking 250 m around the corner and catching either Gold or Blue CityGliders at 2x the frequency?

As for Bulimba - just a reflection of the lack of a BulimbaGlider really.