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My email to Bob Dow regarding various issues.

Started by Tramwayjohn, April 25, 2021, 19:36:43 PM

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Tramwayjohn

I sent an Email to Bob but as I have not had an answer, here is the message again. Comments are most welcome, of course.

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Bob,

Firstly, I have seen some of your fine photos online, and they first rate!

As you and RAIL BACK ON TRACK are in contact with QR, please raise the following matters.

MINOR to a degree, but important. Stop  the NGR announcement reminding customers [ passengers! ] that the exit button is in the middle of the doors! Over three years to get used to that, thank you.

I  suggest that a once or twice per trip announcement be made to warn people not to place their feet on the seats. . . . state that there are fines and CCTV!

What may seem radical but is viable, would be to have some three car sets running every half and hour on lines such as Ipswich Caboolture plus the half hourly 6 car trains. ALL Ipswich trains to stop at all stations, Ipswich to Darra, then Indooroopilly Milton and all to Bowen Hills, and the normal service to Caboolture. . . . with the all stations Springfield to Kipper Ring train about seven minutes after the Ipswich train leaves Darra, for Brisbane Then on the Westbound services, ahead of the Ipswich trains to Darra, to connect to Ipswich.

Now that the NGR with their fixed six car formation, it is not viable to double the services on lines. . . . but as I have said, a three car train in between those six car trains would work.

The above concept would work by having some of those services travel via the exhibition loop. HOWEVER, as I have suggested to QR. . . . to no avail. . . an island platform near the Junction in Roma Street, with subways to the street and other platforms. Called 11 and 12, the platform would stop the city tunnels being overloaded with trains.

If the above ideas are worked on, perhaps we will see results.

Best regards,

John






ozbob

Thanks John.  I had intended to reply later today, but better here.

Your suggestions will be considered.

Regards
Bob
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Tramwayjohn

Bob, thanks, please raise the issues I have discussed directly with QR. In my opinion, there is time to work on new train timetables for the introduction of the CROSS RIVER RAIL in 2024. The focus being on more frequent services and express trains all day on the Ipswich line. It would be possible for example, to run four trains an hour, two expresses and two all stations , if THAT suits QR best. The feet on the seats and the silly announcement at ever station that Customers [ passengers}  are reminded that the exit buttons are located in the middle of the doors is frustrating and annoying. . . . and should not have been introduced in the first place.

BrizCommuter

Righty-ho - so you want to bypass Central, FV, and Bowen Hills by running Ips-Cab services via the Exhibition Loop? Somewhat defeats the purpose of getting passengers to go where they want to go!

Also, CRR will use of most track capacity on the Ekka loop (from Normanby to Mayne) in 2025 anyway.

Tramwayjohn

NO bypass, there would be an island platform built near the junction of the ekka line at Roma Street station  with passenger subways into the station and the street.  That way, services can double with half going via the Exhibition loop and half via Central station. I forget to mention that many guards would be retrained as drivers, to operate the THREE CAR trains that run ever 30 minutes. With of course six car trains every thirty minutes, making a service every 15 minutes. As I outlined earlier, the Springfield trains would run seven minutes behind the Ipswich line expresses from Darra. And ahead of those of course, Westbound.  The above system would operate on the Ipswich Caboolture route. But that system can be introduced on other routes as well.  If there were express trains ever 30 minutes and all station trains ever 30 minutes on lines on the Beenliegh line for example, half would go via the CRR and half via Southbank.

JimmyP

That sounds like an operational nightmare. Post CRR, the Exhibition loop is already going to be well used.
Also, the mains through the city can already handle trains every 3 minutes in peak (20tph) in the current timetable, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to handle 6 or 8tph outside peak. Plus, a lot of people want Central and the Valley stations, meaning a change of trains for no reason. CRR gets around this by still having a (new) CBD station.

Also, if the Springfield trains follow the Ipswich all stations 7 mins later, that'll be a pretty funky time gaps between trains on non-express stations unless Springfield is also 15min frequencies, ie:
:00 Express
:07 Springfield all stopper
:15 Ipswich all stopper
:30 Express
:37 Springfield all stopper
:45 Ipswich all stopper

Why would a 3car train not need a guard while 6car trains do? Unless something major changes by then (possible), all trains will still need a guard (or no trains will for that corridor if they get rid if Guards by then).

I definitely agree regarding announcements though. I can understand why the door button announcements were introduced originally (I have been told the crew were getting a significant amount of erroneous emergency button indications etc), but the NGRs are very common now so I think most people are used to it. Maybe once or twice a trip if needed.

tazzer9

How many people go from west of miltion to north of bowen hills and vice versa.  Not many, and I have a feeling that many of those would be heading to UQ.    Brisbane has very little suburban - suburban rail travel, most is suburban - inner city, or local travel to schools. 

Another problem is the city tunnels aren't actually the choke point, its the small section just west of roma street to milton where the exhibition line joins the main line.  So its not like you are utilizing empty track slots.  Running a 3 cars all stops from rosewood to milton all stops would make far more sense. 

I agree with not only the door button location announcements, but occasional more general announcements like the feet on seats.   The announcements on QR trains are too often, take too long and are often incorrect.  The amount of times the automatic system has the wrong stopping pattern is amazing. 
QR should learn from sydney trains with regards to announcements, both automatic and guard based. 

achiruel

Quote from: tazzer9 on April 27, 2021, 13:30:53 PMQR should learn from sydney trains with regards to announcements, both automatic and guard based.

Automatic—absolutely! Guard based—no thanks! Unless something has changed dramatically since I was last there (Dec. '19), the majority of guard announcements were basically intelligible, with the guards either mumbling, talking way too fast, or both. I understand it's not their primary job, but maybe some basic diction lessons would be helpful.

Tramwayjohn

Some points raised IN in response to my post, are fair enough and as high speed signaling would allow a train every two minutes through the city tunnels, then simply using the line via Central is fine.  HOWEVER my main points are that Ipswich trains can and should run express all day, every day. To do that requires a train to follow from either Richlands or Darra to serve the stations missed by the Ipswich expresses.  Why have only a few express services during the peak, then all stations all day?

Electronic announcements perhaps only twice during the trip re fines and a CCTV to stop or greatly reduce the feet on seats problem would be welcome. The annoying Customers are reminded that the exit button is located in the middle of the doors . . . . . . really must end! As for why three car trains should be driver only and six car trains, not, is nothing more than the union objections, frankly! I would be quite happy to have driver only trains. . . . but just look at the trouble in NSW over the NIF trains not having a cabin for the guard! The trains are still not in service.

Gazza

#9
I think for an full time express on the Ipswich line to work, the Springfield branch needs to be 4tph.

Basically, nobody can be worse off.

If Springfield is 4tph, it means all stations inbound of Darra maintain 4tph off peak.
Therefore you can run at least 2tph express from Ipswich. Ideally this would also be 4tph, however 2tph is no worse than what is offered now, and is still a good service improvement due to the time savings (As evidenced by the success of full time express to Caboolture)
It would also benefit the Rosewood line since the hourly service would always connect with an express.

So as far as I know this is the only interim option where everyone is improved and nobody faces a service cut (unless you count off peak pax from Ipswich having to change trains)

But like, why cant we push for 4tph on both?


Other scenarios all involve someone suffering a service cut:

4tph Express Ipswich + 2tph Springfield.
Not ideal because 2tph is too low for Toowong etc given the density along the line now. Even Corinda has towers now!

3tph Express Ipswich + 3tph Springfield.
Not ideal because it's a service cut for stations inbound of darra, and 3tph does not harmonise with bus connections (Eg the 460 or the 515)

2tph Express Ipswich + 2tph all stops Ipswich + 2tph Springfield.
This is kinda what you get on the Tonsley/Seaford lines in Adelaide
Not ideal because you would get odd timings, since you have non clockface departures at one end of the journey, which defeats the purpose of having high frequency.

Tramwayjohn

Some quite reasonable comments. I suggested 4 trains per hour Ipswich to Brisbane, but my c concept is, splinting six car sets into two three car sets, thus creating more services with the existing rolling stock. I mean the SMU sets of course. Thus you might have a six car NGR then 15 minutes later a three car SMU or IMU. Looking at other systems which work well WITHOUT GUARDS, the way to get union agreement to the increased train services would be to RE-TRAIN all guards to become drivers. Those guards who just can not pass as a driver would of course be offered another job within QR. The concept would ensure reasonable train and bus connections, throughout Brisbane. Although my idea may seen radical in the sense of having half the trains as six cars and half as three cars, at least the improvement in frequency can be carried out quickly. . . . rather than waiting for more trains to be built. Another point by the way, late night services do not need a six car train. The fixed six car sets are a waste in off peak times. 

STB

Just re: announcements, it should take into account the blind who rely on some sort of indication and prior training of where the buttons are located.

This is why universal access is incredibly important, they really should've kept the buttons at the sides in the NGRs to ensure consistency with the fleet as most blind people would probably be trained to expect the door open buttons to be at the sides rather than in the middle of the door - the announcements directing this can assist this.  The Guards announcing which side the platform is on probably came as a recommendation from the blind groups I'm guessing to help blind people navigate themselves on public transport.

achiruel

Quote from: STB on April 28, 2021, 22:11:57 PM
Just re: announcements, it should take into account the blind who rely on some sort of indication and prior training of where the buttons are located.

This is why universal access is incredibly important, they really should've kept the buttons at the sides in the NGRs to ensure consistency with the fleet as most blind people would probably be trained to expect the door open buttons to be at the sides rather than in the middle of the door - the announcements directing this can assist this.  The Guards announcing which side the platform is on probably came as a recommendation from the blind groups I'm guessing to help blind people navigate themselves on public transport.

Not entirely sure that's necessary, as there is a beeping sound when the doors are released to indicate which side the platform is on. Additionally, about 80% of blind people still have enough sight to recognise the flashing buttons anyway.

Tramwayjohn

Perhaps QR SHOULD have insisted that the buttons on the NGR trains were in the same place as other trains, so we would not be subjected to that annoying announcement at every station! Perhaps QR should have also ensured that the NGR trains were properly accessible for wheelchairs too, thus saving MILLIONS of dollars in correcting the situation! While I am at it. . . . when will QR have a blitz and fine people for scratching train windows? What is the CCTV for. . . . if no action is taken to catch people damaging te trains and putting feet on the seats? No kidding.

Cazza

CCTV is useless unless you can identify the offender. That's why they have the "have you seen this person" and "do you recognise this person" ads rolling through at train stations. I got harassed at work over a year ago but the police literally couldn't do anything because they couldn't identify the offender.
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Tramwayjohn

Oh, OK, that's interesting information! So, why can't CCTV be improved including a FREEZE FRAME and printing function? I have always wondered why vandals are not arrested and charged. You may recall that the trains in Melbourne were. . . . and I MEAN WERE  covered in graffiti  including sears walls the floor etc. NOT any more! Change the law so that people convicted WILL BE JAILED for seven days, no if's or buts. Problem solved! NEW YORK was similar until ZERO TOLERANCE policies were introduced! No graffiti, no feet on the seats no rowdy behavior.   Just a safe and enjoyable train trip!

Arnz

Quote from: Tramwayjohn on April 30, 2021, 06:05:17 AM
Perhaps QR SHOULD have insisted that the buttons on the NGR trains were in the same place as other trains, so we would not be subjected to that annoying announcement at every station! Perhaps QR should have also ensured that the NGR trains were properly accessible for wheelchairs too, thus saving MILLIONS of dollars in correcting the situation! While I am at it. . . . when will QR have a blitz and fine people for scratching train windows? What is the CCTV for. . . . if no action is taken to catch people damaging te trains and putting feet on the seats? No kidding.

QR had nothing to do with the specs (or the ordering) of the trains.  The NGR planning was taken away from QR and transferred to DTMR under the Newman government, hence the fiasco now.

The DTMR has a dismal record when it comes to rail planning thus far.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

tazzer9

Quote from: Tramwayjohn on April 30, 2021, 06:37:22 AM
Oh, OK, that's interesting information! So, why can't CCTV be improved including a FREEZE FRAME and printing function? I have always wondered why vandals are not arrested and charged. You may recall that the trains in Melbourne were. . . . and I MEAN WERE  covered in graffiti  including sears walls the floor etc. NOT any more! Change the law so that people convicted WILL BE JAILED for seven days, no if's or buts. Problem solved! NEW YORK was similar until ZERO TOLERANCE policies were introduced! No graffiti, no feet on the seats no rowdy behavior.   Just a safe and enjoyable train trip!


You haven't been to new york if you think there is no graffiti or rowdy behaviour on trains.  Going to new york made me appriciate that QR trains aren't as bad as some think. 

While I'm not a fan of graffiti, some people think its the biggest blight facing public transport and its really not.  I wish they would put as much effort into running a decent train service as they did with graffiti prevention and cleaning

Tramwayjohn

I have been to the US five times, but not to New York. However, I read that the graffiti problem has been solved. . . . I can not confirm that so perhaps you have been in more recent times. I know that Melbourne was a mess years ago, but not at present. I saw a HUGE GRAFFITI problem all over railway land but not on the trains. Certainly there needs to be many more police patrols and as I said much more effective CCTV so that wrong doing can be seen and acted upon. . . . if possible. I have been a security guard in hotels, and there were times when I KNEW not to take on issues myself, and call the police, instead!

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