Queensland Train Manufacturing Program (QTMP)

[ozbob]

With respect to specifications for NNGRs.  They would be similar to the NGRs no doubt (the NGRs can be configured into 9 car sets).

I think there is going to be a bigger muddle though.

Will end up 3 train fleets being managed by 3 different outfits.

1.  Queensland Rail Citytrain fleet.

2.  NGR train fleet (Alstom/DTMR).

3.  NNGR train fleet.  ?

So much for saving money ....   

^

Bob. All part of getting ready to long term privatise the network and sell off Mayne to developers. They have already done this at Albion with the traction line guys being moved, that land to be sold to the Albion developers who will in turn build a new underground multi-storey car park for the train station. There were similar talks/plans to get something similar when qr was split for the Mayne yard/car wash but that went quiet when aurizon offered some diesels onnthe cheap.

I am thinking that Alstom may end up looking after the NNGRs as well out at Wulkuraka ...

[achiruel]

Any reason NGR2s couldn't have some of the order done as 3 car and have them able to run in a 3+6 configuration? Similar to how the NSW D sets are in 4 and 6 car and can run as 4+4 or 4+6 to make longer trains.

[BrizCommuter]

Any reason NGR2s couldn't have some of the order done as 3 car and have them able to run in a 3+6 configuration? Similar to how the NSW D sets are in 4 and 6 car and can run as 4+4 or 4+6 to make longer trains.

Given the amount of work required for 9-car platform extensions, I think any talk of 9-car trains in the next generation of trains is pie in the sky. More likely that 100/220 series replacements in the 2030s may be 9-car with 6-car trains cascading to other lines.

[ozbob]

^ good point.   A highlight of the Ministers presentation on the weekend at the State Labor Party conference was reference to the DDA station upgrades.  Well they have do those ... and many have been half baked which means yet more future cost problems as well.

LX removal is a bridge too far ...

Not looking too pretty is it?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Any reason NGR2s couldn't have some of the order done as 3 car and have them able to run in a 3+6 configuration? Similar to how the NSW D sets are in 4 and 6 car and can run as 4+4 or 4+6 to make longer trains.

Given the amount of work required for 9-car platform extensions, I think any talk of 9-car trains in the next generation of trains is pie in the sky. More likely that 100/220 series replacements in the 2030s may be 9-car with 6-car trains cascading to other lines.

Yep. It's quite straight forward to enable 9 car trains providing its assigned to caboolture and Gold Coast services via crr but it's the expenditure to do so and that expenditure I don't see coming forthright within the next 15 years.

[kram0]

The closest we will get to an excellent public transport network with ongoing major projects is Sydney I'm afraid. 

[ozbob]

I am overcome with emotion.  Our dear EMUs have a second life!

They are going to be around a bit longer than first thought ... 
A trip down the Ferny Grove line in a EMU will become a world gunzel favourite no doubt!

[Arnz]

I am overcome with emotion.  Our dear EMUs have a second life!

They are going to be around a bit longer than first thought ... 
A trip down the Ferny Grove line in a EMU will become a world gunzel favourite no doubt!

I'd say the Beenleigh-Ferny Grove corridor is probably going to become EMU/SMU220 central for a few years, until the NNGR comes out at least.  Apart from the same 3-car EMU rostered to the Ippy-Rosewood shuttle, EMUs elsewhere are likely to be a 'rare treat'

[achiruel]

I guess that will change to Cleveland-Ferny Grove once CRR is in action?

[BrizCommuter]

I guess that will change to Cleveland-Ferny Grove once CRR is in action?

Then we will have the Ferny Grove to Cleveland Heritage Railway.

[ozbob]

^

[achiruel]

I'm gonna miss the EMUs once they leave the Beenleigh Line 

[Stillwater]

Re the Minister making a big deal of DDA upgrades ... they are REQUIRED BY LAW (a federal one) to do the work.  It is not some gracious gift to people with a disability, the elderly and mothers with prams.

[SABB]

Re the Minister making a big deal of DDA upgrades ... they are REQUIRED BY LAW (a federal one) to do the work.  It is not some gracious gift to people with a disability, the elderly and mothers with prams.

What is often forgotten is that full DDA compliance will require the complete rebuild of most suburban stations  and the re-alignment of trackwork because of the platform widenings needed (a fully compliant station will look like the Gold Coast stations). Back in 2009, this was estimated at $6 Billion.

[achiruel]

I'm currently onboard EMU35, just departing Beenleigh station. Didn't get the trailing unit #; I'll try to remember to check it when I get off. And wow, EMU35 has some pretty serious underfloor vibrations happening in car #135!

[ozbob]

I'm currently onboard EMU35, just departing Beenleigh station. Didn't get the trailing unit #; I'll try to remember to check it when I get off. And wow, EMU35 has some pretty serious underfloor vibrations happening in car #135!

Thanks!  EMU 35 was built in 1980, 41 years young.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'm currently onboard EMU35, just departing Beenleigh station. Didn't get the trailing unit #; I'll try to remember to check it when I get off. And wow, EMU35 has some pretty serious underfloor vibrations happening in car #135!

Most likely a wheel flat. They can be quite violent on the EMUs if they are bad enough.

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament Hansard

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2021/2021_06_15_DAILY.pdf

Railways

Ministerial Statements 15 Jun 2021

Hon. MC BAILEY (Miller—ALP) (Minister for Transport and Main Roads) (9.56 am): More than
150 years ago the first railway was opened in Queensland. Today Queensland's rail network is made
up of more than 6,500 kilometres of track and moves more than 15 million tonnes of freight. It is a
massive network. That is why the Palaszczuk Labor government has backed a $46 million infrastructure
project to upgrade 17 timber rail bridges between Townsville and Cairns. I am happy to report to the
House that that infrastructure work is now complete, with the final bridge, at Meunga Creek near
Cardwell, finished in the last few days. This project created more than 150 North Queensland jobs and
provided a huge economic boost to communities around Townsville. It also supported North
Queensland companies, which provided equipment and supplies for hire.

Upgrading 17 bridges has made the north coast line safer and more flood resilient. Stretching
more than 1,400 kilometres from Brisbane to Cairns, the line is used by more than 6,600 passenger
and freight trains every year. It is also home to the iconic Spirit of Queensland service, which supports
regional tourism. There is no denying that North Queensland was hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Infrastructure projects like this create regional jobs and build capacity on our state's key rail lines.
When it comes to regional rail, jobs and tourism, our work does not stop there. The legendary
Gulflander train, which runs on the heritage listed Normanton-Croydon line in the Gulf Country, will
undergo a multimillion dollar overhaul later this year. We have also committed a million dollars for a
business case for Maryborough rail workers to build new carriages for the iconic Westlander, Inlander
and Spirit of the Outback long distance services right here in Queensland.

There is also the commitment from this Labor government to build new trains in Maryborough as
part of our $1 billion pipeline of rail manufacturing work. This pipeline complements our election
commitment to buy back the Rockhampton Railyards and use the site as part of our rail manufacturing
supply chain. Maryborough workers are already fixing the trains that were ordered to be built overseas
by those opposite, and I am pleased to update the House on our plans to build new trains to support
the awesome Cross River Rail.

Train manufacturers Alstom, CAF and Downer Rail have been
shortlisted to manufacture the first 20 trains in a purpose-built Maryborough manufacturing facility for
Cross River Rail. Queensland trains will be built in Queensland under this government. Their selection
follows an extensive expression of interest process by the Department of Transport and Main Roads
over the past six months.

My department will continue to work with all parties to ensure that Queenslanders get the best
possible outcome from that process and I look forward to sharing more news about the Palaszczuk
Labor government's plan to create regional rail jobs into the future. The Palaszczuk Labor government's
record on infrastructure investment is creating manufacturing jobs in our regions—50 per cent more
than when we came to office—supporting tourism and helping to drive Queensland's economy. This
government is about infrastructure, not cuts.

[BrizCommuter]

I'm gonna miss the EMUs once they leave the Beenleigh Line 

They will be around for a while!

[ozbob]

I'm gonna miss the EMUs once they leave the Beenleigh Line 

They will be around for a while!

[ozbob]

Government Statement

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/92416

Three train manufacturers shortlisted for Queensland train building program
16th June 2021

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Queensland is one step closer to building its next passenger train fleet after shortlisting three leading train manufacturers to enter the next phase of the Rollingstock Expansion Program (REP).

Train manufacturers Alstom, CAF and Downer Rail have been shortlisted to manufacture the first 20 trains of the new fleet in a purpose-built Maryborough manufacturing facility following an extensive Expression of Interest (EOI) process run by the Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR).

The EOI Evaluation Panel was chaired by TMR and included members from TMR, Queensland Rail, Queensland Treasury, the Department of Regional Development and Manufacturing and Water in addition to an independent panel member and a probity specialist.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said it builds on the 283 jobs saved by the Palaszczuk Government in 2017, and all up delivers a $1 billion guaranteed pipeline of train building work in Maryborough.

"This $1 billion pipeline is critical to Queensland's economic recovery, and will ensure there are efficient and reliable services for our growing train network for Cross River Rail and beyond," Mr Bailey said.

"We made a $600 million election commitment for 20 new six-car trains to be manufactured in Queensland, and we are now a step closer to delivering.

"Plus there is a further option for an additional 45 additional trains to be built down the track.

"We've also got a $1 million for a business case to build replacement carriages for the iconic Westlander, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback long-distance services right here in Queensland."

Assistant Minister for Train Manufacturing Bruce Saunders said the Palaszczuk Government is committed to a new era of rail manufacturing in Queensland.

"We're ensuring the manufacturing and maintaining of trains is being done by Queenslanders to support jobs in Maryborough and other regional centres," Mr Saunders said.

In recognition of the importance of accessibility for REP, the panel included Queensland's former Anti-Discrimination Commissioner Kevin Cocks who is now the Executive General Manager of the Accessibility Transport Network team for TMR.

"By building accessible trains, we are creating opportunities for people to contribute to society through social and economic participation," Mr Cocks said.

Strict probity requirements were in place through the EOI process to ensure it was fair and competitive, and will remain in place until the contract is awarded in 2022.

The shortlisting marks an important milestone for the REP and ensures there is a competitive field of world class manufacturers as Queensland enters a new era of train manufacturing.

REP will provide considerable benefits, modernising and allowing the expansion of South East Queensland's passenger train fleet to support the region's booming population and economic growth.

ENDS

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1405179122217668612

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[achiruel]

I'm wondering what exactly they plan on replacing the Westlander and Inlander with?

Maybe 2 car hydrogen-powered MUs? I can't see that fully battery-electric trains will be viable over those kinds of distances.
Given the patronage, it would seem ridiculous to replace them with full loco-hauled sets, although with the horribly slow speeds permitted on the western line, I'm not sure who would bother. Road coaches are so much faster, and I can't see rail being competitive unless DTMR decides to make some investments into speed upgrades on this line, and I really can't see this happening.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Carriages only. Still loco hauled. There have been rumours about small goods freight returning between stations but that remains to be seen.

[BrizCommuter]

I'm wondering what exactly they plan on replacing the Westlander and Inlander with?

Maybe 2 car hydrogen-powered MUs? I can't see that fully battery-electric trains will be viable over those kinds of distances.
Given the patronage, it would seem ridiculous to replace them with full loco-hauled sets, although with the horribly slow speeds permitted on the western line, I'm not sure who would bother. Road coaches are so much faster, and I can't see rail being competitive unless DTMR decides to make some investments into speed upgrades on this line, and I really can't see this happening.

Even in the UK there have been some new loco hauled trains built, as the cost of designing a small fleet of DMUs was not cost effective.

[achiruel]

^ Could TransWA WD* class be ordered? Or would the manufacturer have scrapped all the tooling associated with it by now (it was ~17 years ago).

Or would the design simply be too outdate for current use?

[HappyTrainGuy]

They would not comply with new crash test standards. Only a few trains in Australia currently meet these standards. NGRs are the only ones in our fleet that do. The trains you are also referring to in WA are also standard gauge trains and not 3f6.

They could go down the DMU route here but they will need to commit to it as they will just be glorified railmotors and even then its a limited market that would only be attractive to a few areas ie Cairns-Townsville (needs realignment and track infrastructure upgrades to cement sleepers/heavier rail to boost the speeds to make a DMU worth wild and attractive to use vs existing modes already available. You could extend to Cairns airport (haha) but you need frequency to justify the expenditure and insert more foam blah blah here. Outside of Rosewood-Toowoomba Cairns-Townsville with way more stops than the tilt train could possibly justify the DMUs but other infrastructure such as track and station mods will also be needed bumping the expense), Rocky-Bundy-maybe Maryborough but then might aswell go to Gympie (better off using existing electric rollingstock with a different seating config so depending on mtce cycles they could jump between corridors ie Rocky-Gympie swap to Gympie-Roma Street leg, mtce at mayne, Roma Street-Gympie and back rostered onto the Gympie-Rocky section with minimal fuss. That could change depending on what happens with the Rocky yards aswell) and west of Rosewood (really this is the most realistic option to ever see a DMU operate but given the resources that would be needed they would have to be spec'd of something similar to allow for easy servicing).

Then you run the risk of eating into a market that the traveltrains (at least on the NCL) already service.

Take away all the foam and the only corridor that could realistically support a DMU at present without too much works being needed would be the Brisbane-Toowoomba run with all refueling done at Mayne (needs to be taken out of service) or at Toowoomba (between runs). At the moment actually getting a DMU anywhere in Queensland is still a pie in the next universe over.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1408897436337119233

Note: 3 double doors per carriage side  ...  serious in Perth.

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament Question on Notice

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2021/913-2021.pdf

[HappyTrainGuy]

Looks like the ICE trains have been put on ice

[SurfRail]

There is absolutely no reason we should be hanging onto trains for 40+ years. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

If you want to put cheap jokes about intercity trains on ice aside there's no reason half the fleet should be running. So many flaws and an ongoing expenses just to keep them running due to poor mismanagement by those within tmr and state government with fleet expansion. ICE, EMU, SMU200, IMU100/120 and a few of the 220 should have already been scrapped now.

[ozbob]

It is going to be a very difficult decade leading up to the Olympics.

The thinking high up is that it is all too hard and buses will be the Olympic solution ... 

What is left of the Citytrain network will probably have some line timetable reductions as for the Commonwealth Games.

" Olympic City "   < giant clusterfuk ... 

[BrizCommuter]

It is going to be a very difficult decade leading up to the Olympics.

The thinking high up is that it is all too hard and buses will be the Olympic solution ... 

What is left of the Citytrain network will probably have some line timetable reductions as for the Commonwealth Games.

" Olympic City "   < giant clusterfuk ... 

We won't be seeing enhanced services on all lines as occured in London 2012.

[ozbob]

" Anticipated commencement of retirement " EMUs 2025 

 

Commencement ... My hunch is they will still be running to Ferny Grove in 2032 Briz !!

[verbatim9]

Even if the Qld Government promised to build trains here, they will to need have some made overseas to speed up the process.

Maybe build 5 here and 15 overseas

[ozbob]

^

The Government has made the committment to local manufacture.

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/92416

... "We made a $600 million election commitment for 20 new six-car trains to be manufactured in Queensland, and we are now a step closer to delivering.

"Plus there is a further option for an additional 45 additional trains to be built down the track.

"We've also got a $1 million for a business case to build replacement carriages for the iconic Westlander, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback long-distance services right here in Queensland." ...

[verbatim9]

They also could get around their promise by getting most of the train components built overseas then doing the finishing touches in Maryborough.

[Gazza]

Yeah but theyre not neolibs so they probably dont care about breaking promises.