Queensland Train Manufacturing Program (QTMP)

[JustSomeTrainGuy]

Premier has just announced $600 million towards new trains for the QR Network built in Maryborough by Downer

[Gazza]

Yeeeeaahhh boi!

[ozbob]

Still chasing details ..

====

https://twitter.com/AnnastaciaMP/status/1315815837081636864

[aldonius]

Good news for Maryborough. 20 is rather a small run though; that's $50 million per train. I wonder what the NGRs are at even with all the delays and rectification work?

[SurfRail]

Does anybody have a rough and ready count of the current state of the 3 oldest components of the fleet? 

# EMUs left of 87 x 3 cars
# ICEs left of 8 x 2 pairs + 4 trailers
# SMU200s left of 12 x 3 cars

Leaving those aside there are notionally 129 x 6 car trains (774 cars)

7 x 6 car IMU100/IMU120
15 x 3 car SMU220
32 x 3 car IMU160/SMU260
75 x 6 car NGR

20 trains still isn't enough in my view.  The aim should be to one-for-one replace everything older than the 129 x 6-car equivalents noted above, grow the fleet so there are no more regular 3-car workings other than for Rosewood and allow additional peak services.  I would think 40-50 x 6 car sets at minimum so that Maryborough can deliver a significant proportion of that number before CRR opens. 

Then, the next goal should be to buy additional cars for a good chunk of the NGR fleet so they can be bulked up to 9 car sets and segregated to the CRR running lines only.

[Arnz]

155/158 is the only operational coupled ICE set left.  Currently only operating the morning and evening services to/from Gympie North Mon-Sat and evening northbound service on Sunday.

Weekday daytime service largely replaced by the older IMU100/120 class IMUs.

152 has been relegated to driver training duties, generally coupled to a 3-car EMU.

[red dragin]

Around 14x 3-car EMU's left, based on a spotter thread on RP. Could be more of course.

[ozbob]

Announcement  https://www.facebook.com/1408935539376139/videos/349442516328387

First 10 minutes or so ...  start is about 1 minute 30 secs in.

$600M for 20 new trains  < not clear as to what they are yet

$300M for existing fleet maintenance etc.

$85M for ongoing NGR fixes.

$1M for business case for SOTO Inlander Westlander replacements

[Gazza]

$1M for business case for SOTO Inlander Westlander replacements

Hopefully a 2 car DMU, not something that needs more staff then passengers to run.

[ozbob]

$1M for business case for SOTO Inlander Westlander replacements

Hopefully a 2 car DMU, not something that needs more staff then passengers to run.

Yes, discussions I have had previously would suggest just that Gazza.  DMUs  outfitted for longer haul runs.

[verbatim9]

Good news for Maryborough. 20 is rather a small run though; that's $50 million per train. I wonder what the NGRs are at even with all the delays and rectification work?

Yep that's why Labor are on pleading 20 trains not 50 due to the cost of making 50 new trains at that facility. If that facility were to be upgraded to mainly  a robotic automated facility that could make trains for other worldwide tenders, then it would be a worthwhile cause.

[Gazza]

http://www.qtectic.com/new-trains-for-half-the-price/

$13.7m per 6 car set base price quoted, but i think with rectification it would be around $15m in the end.

$600m for 20 trains equals $30m per train, so yes twice as much, but for that price we get a better product.

[JimmyP]

Most other QR train orders (part from NGRs) have always started with low order numbers too, before increasing as time goes on. Hopefully this will be no different.
Good news about the regional study too. A tiltimg DMU would be nice, however unlikely, for Westlander and Inlander. Spirit of the Outback will be interesting, as it is more of a tourist journey than anything, so sleepers etc. are good for that run.

[ozbob]

Yo.  I expect the " 20 new trains " are for Citytrain.  Probably upgraded 160 IMU sort of thing with ATP etc.

20 is a start, once in the groove more easily achieved.

[Gazza]

It would be nice too if they had Pantos, so the Westlander can run on electric to Rosewood and similarly the SOTO can run on electric to Emerald Blackwater.

[red dragin]

It would be nice too if they had Pantos, so the Westlander can run on electric to Rosewood and similarly the SOTO can run on electric to Emerald.

I think the overhead is switched off west of Blackwater, aside from low voltage to detect dewirements.

[timh]

It would be nice too if they had Pantos, so the Westlander can run on electric to Rosewood and similarly the SOTO can run on electric to Emerald.

Hybrids like this would be great, as well as with tilting. It's possibly a bit much to ask for to service these long distance routes which (as far as I'm aware) are currently very underused, but if they build them with the aforementioned tech from the start, it would potentially future proof the rollingstock if the lines ever got an upgrade.

I'm probably being a bit too optimistic but if they had 160km/h+ speed capabilities it would be nice to see.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/AnnastaciaMP/status/1315840323365474305

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1315847310920699904

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

BREAKING: At least 690 jobs coming to Maryborough! 🚆 For the first time in nearly a decade, Queenslanders will again...

Posted by Annastacia Palaszczuk MP on Monday, 12 October 2020

[ozbob]

Fraser Coast Chronicle --> BREAKING: $1B promise for M'boro train builders

A PROMISED $1Billion pipeline will ensure Queensland trains are once again built in Maryborough.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk told reporters in Maryborough this morning that after nearly a decade of exporting, construction work would be permanently returned to the Heritage City.

$600 million in new money will cover the construction of 20 new trains.

$1million will go towards repairing existing train carriages.

It's on top of the $385million in already committed money which includes employing Maryborough workers to repair overseas-built trains.

MORE TO COME.

[SurfRail]

In short, not great, not terrible. 

This campaign, like 2017, 2015, 2012, 2009 and further back, has been woefully under-inspiring for public transport generally.  No Queensland party other than the Greens ever seems to promise service upgrades (especially not for buses).  It's all about the concrete and steel stuff.  Hard hats a plenty.

[achiruel]

$1M for business case for SOTO Inlander Westlander replacements

Hopefully a 2 car DMU, not something that needs more staff then passengers to run.

Might be good for Inlander & Westlander, I believe SOTO often gets a fair few pax these days?

[JimmyP]

Yo.  I expect the " 20 new trains " are for Citytrain.  Probably upgraded 160 IMU sort of thing with ATP etc.

20 is a start, once in the groove more easily achieved.

I'd imagine it'll be more an updated/upgraded NGR type design than anything.

[kram0]

Yo.  I expect the " 20 new trains " are for Citytrain.  Probably upgraded 160 IMU sort of thing with ATP etc.

20 is a start, once in the groove more easily achieved.

I'd imagine it'll be more an updated/upgraded NGR type design than anything.

Agree, as they will require it to be compatible with CRR and the NGR is already a proven platform that will only require minor modifications.

[achiruel]

In short, not great, not terrible. 

This campaign, like 2017, 2015, 2012, 2009 and further back, has been woefully under-inspiring for public transport generally.  No Queensland party other than the Greens ever seems to promise service upgrades (especially not for buses).  It's all about the concrete and steel stuff.  Hard hats a plenty.

And then the Greens come up with brain fart ideas like free fares for everyone 24/7 

[ozbob]

Yo.  I expect the " 20 new trains " are for Citytrain.  Probably upgraded 160 IMU sort of thing with ATP etc.

20 is a start, once in the groove more easily achieved.

I'd imagine it'll be more an updated/upgraded NGR type design than anything.

The NGR is not their design.  I expect what is built it will be similar in NGR capability but will not be copy of or upgraded NGR as such.
I expect the 160 IMU form will be the base but with significant upgrades and improvements.  It will in fact  be a new model, with a new outline.

[ozbob]

Fraser Coast Chronicle --> $1b gravy train: "Best news we've ever heard in Maryborough"

PREMIER Annastacia Palaszczuk has announced it is full steam ahead for a $1 billion rail package for Maryborough.

She said the package includes 20 new Queensland trains to be built in the city, a 10-year deal to maintain the existing Queensland Rail fleet and $85 million invested to fix New Generation Rolling Stock.

The package also includes a new $1 million case to build replacement carriages for the Westland, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback services.

"This announcement is a massive win for the Maryborough region, making it a major manufacturing hub," the Premier said.

"My Government is proud to be backing the powerhouse region of Maryborough thanks to the relentless advocacy of Bruce Saunders."

Mr Saunders said it was the "best news we've ever heard in Maryborough."

"Building the first 20 Cross River Rail trains in Maryborough will mean 690 new local jobs for the region," Mr Saunders said.

He said he was humbled by the news and was proud to belong to the government which delivered the package.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the government's commitment was an investment in the region and hinted at possible future work.

"The initial order could be followed with an option to build up to 45 additional six-car trains in Maryborough, to meet future demand on the Citytrain network," he said.

"We guarantee that under a re-elected Palaszczuk Government those additional 45 new trains would also be made in Maryborough."

"The initial order could be followed with an option to build up to 45 additional six-car trains in Maryborough, to meet future demand on the Citytrain network," he said.

This is more like it.  We have always thought 50 additional 6 car trains would be required.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/AnnastaciaMP/status/1315933291778920450

[achiruel]

Fraser Coast Chronicle --> $1b gravy train: "Best news we've ever heard in Maryborough"

PREMIER Annastacia Palaszczuk has announced it is full steam ahead for a $1 billion rail package for Maryborough.

She said the package includes 20 new Queensland trains to be built in the city, a 10-year deal to maintain the existing Queensland Rail fleet and $85 million invested to fix New Generation Rolling Stock.

The package also includes a new $1 million case to build replacement carriages for the Westland, Inlander and Spirit of the Outback services.

"This announcement is a massive win for the Maryborough region, making it a major manufacturing hub," the Premier said.

"My Government is proud to be backing the powerhouse region of Maryborough thanks to the relentless advocacy of Bruce Saunders."

Mr Saunders said it was the "best news we've ever heard in Maryborough."

"Building the first 20 Cross River Rail trains in Maryborough will mean 690 new local jobs for the region," Mr Saunders said.

He said he was humbled by the news and was proud to belong to the government which delivered the package.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the government's commitment was an investment in the region and hinted at possible future work.

"The initial order could be followed with an option to build up to 45 additional six-car trains in Maryborough, to meet future demand on the Citytrain network," he said.

"We guarantee that under a re-elected Palaszczuk Government those additional 45 new trains would also be made in Maryborough."

"The initial order could be followed with an option to build up to 45 additional six-car trains in Maryborough, to meet future demand on the Citytrain network," he said.

This is more like it.  We have always thought 50 additional 6 car trains would be required.

If I'm interpreting that correctly, that would mean a total of 65 new trains? That's more like it! 

[JimmyP]

Yo.  I expect the " 20 new trains " are for Citytrain.  Probably upgraded 160 IMU sort of thing with ATP etc.

20 is a start, once in the groove more easily achieved.

I'd imagine it'll be more an updated/upgraded NGR type design than anything.

The NGR is not their design.  I expect what is built it will be similar in NGR capability but will not be copy of or upgraded NGR as such.
I expect the 160 IMU form will be the base but with significant upgrades and improvements.  It will in fact  be a new model, with a new outline.

Bombardier and Downer have worked very closely together in the past (including the early stages of the NGR tender), with multiple engineers moving between the two companies when one had work and the other didn't, so I suspect Downer have a pretty good understanding of the NGR design, as well as the fact they're doing a decent amount of work on the NGRs currently.
Also, I believe due to design standard changes, the 160/260 outline doesn't meet crash protection standards for new designs, so the new trains will likely much closer resemble an NGR than a 160/260.

[ozbob]

Agreed. They might well resemble a NGR but they will not be a NGR. Alstom is taking over Bombardier. There might be an opportunity for some synergy between Alstom in WA who are doing the next lot of trains for Perth.

[ozbob]

New trains for Perth C series Alstom

It is an interesting thing that Maryborough was building B series for Perth when we were importing the NGRs.



ABC --> New Transperth trains revealed for Metronet expansion to be built in Perth under $1.3 billion deal

[ozbob]

Rail Express --> Queensland Labor promises $1bn pipeline of local train manufacturing

The Queensland Labor government has promised that if returned at the upcoming state election it would create a $1 billion rail manufacturing pipeline in Maryborough.

Labor would purchase 20 new trains at a cost of $600 million to be built at Downer's facility in Maryborough. This is in addition to the $300m, 10-year pipeline of maintenance work of the existing Queensland Rail fleet and the $85m invested in refurbishing the New Generation Rollingstock to make the trains compliant with the Disability Act.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk also announced $1m for a business case for the replacement of regional carriages, which is expected to lead to $150m in works also delivered by Downer.

"This $1 billion train building program heralds a new and ambitious chapter for manufacturing, not just for Maryborough, but for Queensland," said Palaszczuk.

"This long-term future pipeline of work means there will be rewarding long-term career paths for our young people in trades like boilermaking, fitter machining and as electricians."

Australasian Railway Association (ARA) CEO Caroline Wilkie said the investment highlighted Australia's local manufacturing capabilities.

"This commitment would transform the face of Queensland manufacturing and shows once and for all that trains can and should be built here in Australia," said Wilkie.

"We are pleased this commitment has recognised Australia's extensive expertise in the field and the need to invest to this scale in the local industry."

Queensland Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said the tender process would require the trains to be built in Maryborough.

"Train manufacturers will be invited to bid in a procurement process to build the next fleet of passenger trains in Maryborough, with an order for 20 new six-car trains needed to support more frequent services once Cross River Rail opens in 2025," he said.

"The initial order could be followed with an option to build up to 45 additional six-car trains in Maryborough, to meet future demand on the Citytrain network."

Once complete, the new trains would be the first Queensland-built trains since the 160 series Interurban multiple unit and the 260 series suburban multiple units which last entered service in 2011.

Queensland's latest train fleet, the New Generation Rollingstock, were manufactured overseas, however had to be retrofitted to meet Australian standards.

"This investment in rail manufacturing would ensure the trains operating on the state's newest passenger rail line are absolutely fit for purpose and made for Australian conditions by the people that know them best," said Wilkie.

[HappyTrainGuy]

the 160/260 outline doesn't meet crash protection standards for new designs

Correct. Hopefully 9 car designs and provisions are incorporated into the build as was done with the NGR. Nothing like having a train order only to find out it can't be reconfigured to run as a 9 car (by adding a 3 car consist with no driver cabs in the middle).

[verbatim9]

As suggested, it's most likely that Alstom will need to go into partnership with Downer to build trains at that location. Similar to what has occurred in Perth. It would be the most logical and economical outcome.

[JimmyP]

Makes sense. Downer and Bombardier were working together for numerous years in Maryborough. Alsthom now owns Bombardier, so most likely the cooperation will continue.

[ozbob]

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2020/1080-2020.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 1080
Asked on 26 November 2020

MR M BOOTHMAN ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS
(HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to the $600m to purchase 20 new trains to be built at the Downer Maryborough
facilities—

Will the Minister advise (a) whether this was a direct tender process, (b) when construction will
take place, (c) when the trains will be finalised, (d) the total contract cost and (e) how
Maryborough was selected as the location for building the trains?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Theodore for the question.

The Department of Transport and Main Roads issued an Expression of Interest for the
manufacture of 20 new trains in the Maryborough region on 10 December 2020.
The contract will be subject to an open tender process and it is anticipated a contract will be
awarded in the first quarter of 2022, with design and construction activities commencing from
contract award.

In the 2017 State Election, the Palaszczuk Government made a commitment that all future rail
rollingstock and associated infrastructure, for which Queensland has the manufacturing capacity
to deliver, will be manufactured and maintained by Queenslanders to support jobs in
Maryborough and other regional centres.

I note the LNP failed to produce any policy or financial commitment in its election costings to
support Queensland jobs by backing rail manufacturing opportunities in Maryborough.
For the first time in nearly a decade, Queenslanders will build the next generation of trains that
travel across our State, benefiting local supply chains throughout the Maryborough region while
pumping investment into the local economy.

[ozbob]

Queensland Government: Rollingstock Expansion Program

https://gateway.icn.org.au/project/4647/rollingstock-expansion-program

Project Details

South East Queensland (SEQ) continues to experience strong population growth, generating more demand for public transport. The Shaping SEQ plan predicts SEQ will be home to an extra 1.9 million people by 2041, with the total regional population growing to around 5.3 million.

This population growth and the transport network demand growth, along with the delivery of Cross River Rail (CRR) in 2025/26 calls for increased rail network service levels. This proposed increase drives the need for more tunnel-capable rollingstock ready for when CRR opens and beyond.

The Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) recently conducted analysis which has indicated that a rollingstock expansion in the order of up to 65 additional six-car Electric Multiple Units (EMUs) will be required over the next 10 years to deliver service uplift and meet demand (REP).  TMR is responsible for delivering the REP.  The Queensland Government's investment in the REP is designed to benefit local communities and businesses and create local jobs.

The REP will include a single Design, Build and Maintain contract for a successful supplier to deliver the Rollingstock, Maintenance and Manufacturing Package (RMM Package).

It is currently contemplated that the RMM Package will include the following key components:

. Initial Fleet of 20-six car EMUs and options for a further 45, six-car EMUs (together the Rollingstock Fleet)

. Manufacturing Facility; and Maintenance of the Rollingstock Fleet.

In line with the Queensland Government's commitment to source locally, a manufacturing facility for both the RMM Package and future rollingstock manufacturing activities will be secured and funded by TMR and established by the successful rollingstock supplier.

TMR is currently investigating options for maintenance facilities to be used for maintaining the new Rollingstock Fleet, including existing facilities or design and construction of a new facility (which would be included as part of the RMM Package).

Queensland Rail will operate the Rollingstock Fleet delivered by the RMM Package.

[Cazza]

TMR is responsible for delivering the REP.