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Author Topic: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline  (Read 1506 times)

Offline SteelPan

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Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« on: May 04, 2020, 12:30:12 AM »
https://www.racq.com.au/Live/Articles/NS-280420--RACQs-infrastructure-wishlist-to-kickstart-economic-recovery

Includes public transport proposals:
> Beerburrum to Nambour duplication
> Springfield to Ripley and Ipswich Rail Extension
> Manly to Cleveland Rail Duplication
> Pimpama, Helensvale North and Merrimac Rail Stations
> Salisbury to Beaudesert Passenger Rail

At least some stuff's getting a run out there....not that we're hearing much from the State Govt...no surprises there!   :fp:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:50:19 AM by ozbob »
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Online ozbob

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Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 12:49:45 AM »
Couriermail --> $1.8b infrastructure boost as QLD eyes $80bn project pipeline

Quote
QUEENSLAND has an $80 billion pipeline of “catalytic” projects on the table to kickstart the economy as the Morrison Government prepares to ramp up infrastructure spending around the country.

Deputy Prime Minister and Infrastructure Minister Michael McCormack will today announce a $1.8 billion funding boost for local councils to accelerate infrastructure upgrades and maintenance programs, funnelling money into struggling communities.

“This package will improve road safety and bolster the resilience of our local road networks, which will get Australians home sooner and safer, no matter where they live,” Mr McCormack said.

It comes as RACQ and Queensland and Federal oppositions call on governments to seize on the need to turbocharge the economy by bringing forward major projects such as the $70 billion Southeast Queensland fast rail and $2.4 billion Coomera Connector, also known as the second M1.

RACQ head of public policy Rebecca Michael said the pandemic had created an opportunity to push ahead with “catalytic infrastructure” that would generate economic growth and fast track the recovery.

“When we look at roads … its not hyperbole to say they are the lifeblood of Queensland, if we invest in roads they support supply chains, support freight and they support tourism and we need growth in those areas if we are to see sustained economic recovery from this,” she said.

But she said any spending needed to balance big projects with the “quick wins” from often-overlooked but vital maintenance and road-sealing projects.

Other major projects that could be brought forward include the $2.1 billion Moreton Connector, $1 billion Ipswich rail connection and $550 million Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication.

BMD group executive director of operations Scott Power said any disruption to the company’s order book, which includes the Sumner Rd interchange currently under construction, would likely be delayed months but it had been heartening to hear governments talk about using civil construction to help rebuild the economy.

“There’s been a lot of talk in the industry having a pipeline because that’s what we alway use to plan and invest in our people and our business,” he said.

Labor’s transport, infrastructure and regional development spokeswoman Catherine King said it was time to start “transformative, nation-building projects that have helped us escape the recessions of the past”.

“Projects like high speed rail are big undertakings, but they would be transformative for Australia, and in particular Brisbane and southern Queensland,” she said.

Mr McCormack, the Deputy Prime Minister, said he was working with Queensland Transport Minister Mark Bailey to identify projects that could be accelerated.

“We want shovel-ready projects so we can get money out the door,” he said.

“One way out of the economic malaise in which we’ve found ourselves is through infrastructure because it flows on right throughout the economy. If you’ve got people building roads or working on rail lines or indeed building dams, which is something I’m very keen on … you’ve got work happening in the economy, the labour force is active and it flows right on through the communities.”

On Tuesday Mr Bailey announced a $400 million stimulus package of new and accelerated road projects.

“The vast majority of this $400 million will go directly to our regions, supporting 360 jobs and helping us pave the way to recovery,” he said.

The state government had also previously committed with the federal government to bring forward $185 million of safety, maintenance and road sealing works on key inland freight routes.

And there is a $5 billion pipeline of road projects due to start before the end of 2020 that are projected to create nearly 5000 jobs collectively.

LNP Leader Deb Frecklington called for the second M1 to be fast-tracked and has committed $550 million to get “shovels in the ground” if she wins the election in October.

“Fast-tracking transport infrastructure projects, both big and small, will provide immediate benefits with new construction jobs and deliver long-term economic benefits through less congestion,” she said.

Infrastructure experts said it was unlikely mega-projects such as the Inland Rail, which would link Brisbane to Melbourne, and Cross River Rail could be accelerated due to their “scale and scope”.

IN THE PIPELINE

● $70bn SEQ fast rail network

● $2.4bn Coomera Connector (M2)

● $2.1bn Moreton Connector

● $1bn Ipswich rail connection to Springfield via Ripley

● $550M Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication

● Salisbury to Beaudesert passenger rail - no business case

● Increase Gold Coast line capacity - no business case
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline timh

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 06:58:44 AM »
Where the hell did they get the figure that the SEq fast rail is $70bn? And how is it "in the pipeline" when we don't yet have a business case??

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Online ozbob

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 08:35:51 AM »
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 10:35:00 AM »
Quote
Minister Michael McCormack will today announce a $1.8 billion funding boost for local councils to accelerate infrastructure upgrades and maintenance programs, funnelling money into struggling communities.
How do we know that the $1.8b wont just to go mainly to National and Liberal electorates they want to win?

Where the hell did they get the figure that the SEq fast rail is $70bn? And how is it "in the pipeline" when we don't yet have a business case??

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$7b sounds more realistic.

Offline kram0

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 11:20:43 AM »
The other problem, very few projects on the rail front are shovel ready as the state government have put all their eggs in the Cross River Rail basket.

This will lead to yet more delays while the southern states and WA power ahead with rail infrastructure.......

Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 12:03:35 PM »
There is a Fast Rail Business Case for the Sunshine Coast.
It has been with the National Faster Rail Agency since January 2020.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Offline timh

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 02:53:12 PM »
There is a Fast Rail Business Case for the Sunshine Coast.
It has been with the National Faster Rail Agency since January 2020.

Is it available to the public? If so, where can I find it? And if not, why is it not publicly available?

Online ozbob

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 04:06:16 PM »
There is a Fast Rail Business Case for the Sunshine Coast.
It has been with the National Faster Rail Agency since January 2020.

Is it available to the public? If so, where can I find it? And if not, why is it not publicly available?

Government has to consider the advice of the National Faster Rail Agency once business case assessed by them. 

Nothing public at this time.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline kram0

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 07:41:56 PM »
Where the hell did they get the figure that the SEq fast rail is $70bn? And how is it "in the pipeline" when we don't yet have a business case??

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The Courier Mail have revised the article and put the price tag at $20b. See below list.

IN THE PIPELINE
● $20bn SEQ fast rail network

● $2.4bn Coomera Connector (M2)

● $2.1bn Moreton Connector

● $1bn Ipswich rail connection to Springfield via Ripley

● $550M Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication

● Salisbury to Beaudesert passenger rail - no business case

● Increase Gold Coast line capacity - no business case

Offline timh

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 07:50:08 PM »
Where the hell did they get the figure that the SEq fast rail is $70bn? And how is it "in the pipeline" when we don't yet have a business case??

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The Courier Mail have revised the article and put the price tag at $20b. See below list.

IN THE PIPELINE
● $20bn SEQ fast rail network

● $2.4bn Coomera Connector (M2)

● $2.1bn Moreton Connector

● $1bn Ipswich rail connection to Springfield via Ripley

● $550M Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication

● Salisbury to Beaudesert passenger rail - no business case

● Increase Gold Coast line capacity - no business case
That number makes much more sense. Still, did they just pull it out of their arse? Where is the number coming from? Why is the fast rail program "in the pipeline"? Makes no sense at all.

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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2020, 08:30:30 PM »
Where the hell did they get the figure that the SEq fast rail is $70bn? And how is it "in the pipeline" when we don't yet have a business case??

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The Courier Mail have revised the article and put the price tag at $20b. See below list.

IN THE PIPELINE
● $20bn SEQ fast rail network

● $2.4bn Coomera Connector (M2)

● $2.1bn Moreton Connector

● $1bn Ipswich rail connection to Springfield via Ripley

● $550M Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication

● Salisbury to Beaudesert passenger rail - no business case

● Increase Gold Coast line capacity - no business case
That number makes much more sense. Still, did they just pull it out of their arse? Where is the number coming from? Why is the fast rail program "in the pipeline"? Makes no sense at all.

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The Federal Government is doing a business case for fast rail. At the moment they are busy with one from Brisbane to Toowoomba. They would of liaised with the State Government TMR over estimated costs.
6.65 billion for each electrified fast rail route. (Sunny Coast, Gold Coast and Toowoomba).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 08:44:12 PM by verbatim9 »

Online ozbob

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2020, 01:40:56 AM »
These are the fast rail projects presently being assessed.  Toowoomba is not one.

https://www.nfra.gov.au/projects#faster
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline timh

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2020, 09:57:20 AM »
Where the hell did they get the figure that the SEq fast rail is $70bn? And how is it "in the pipeline" when we don't yet have a business case??

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

The Courier Mail have revised the article and put the price tag at $20b. See below list.

IN THE PIPELINE
● $20bn SEQ fast rail network

● $2.4bn Coomera Connector (M2)

● $2.1bn Moreton Connector

● $1bn Ipswich rail connection to Springfield via Ripley

● $550M Beerburrum to Nambour rail duplication

● Salisbury to Beaudesert passenger rail - no business case

● Increase Gold Coast line capacity - no business case
That number makes much more sense. Still, did they just pull it out of their arse? Where is the number coming from? Why is the fast rail program "in the pipeline"? Makes no sense at all.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
The Federal Government is doing a business case for fast rail. At the moment they are busy with one from Brisbane to Toowoomba. They would of liaised with the State Government TMR over estimated costs.
6.65 billion for each electrified fast rail route. (Sunny Coast, Gold Coast and Toowoomba).
It doesn't excuse crappy reporting. Unless the Murdoch papers know something we don't (same story reported in Herald Sun etc), then they're literally pulling numbers out of thin air for a headline. The existence of a business case currently under development doesn't confirm anything

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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2020, 12:41:54 PM »
These are the fast rail projects presently being assessed.  Toowoomba is not one.

https://www.nfra.gov.au/projects#faster
There is still this in the pipeline

https://investment.infrastructure.gov.au/projects/ProjectDetails.aspx?Project_id=097134-17QLD-NRP


Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2020, 12:43:27 PM »
^^Seperate project and funding I guess?

Offline timh

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2020, 12:57:13 PM »
^^Seperate project and funding I guess?

I can't remember exactly which document I read it in, but I believe it was the NFRA Prospectus. Anyways, in said document it said that the Toowoomba passenger rail project would not be "Fast Rail". If I find it I'll try link.

Disclaimer for you V: I am supportive of Toowoomba passenger rail don't worry. I know you are a big proponent!

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2020, 04:06:42 PM »
^^Seperate project and funding I guess?

I can't remember exactly which document I read it in, but I believe it was the NFRA Prospectus. Anyways, in said document it said that the Toowoomba passenger rail project would not be "Fast Rail". If I find it I'll try link.

Disclaimer for you V: I am supportive of Toowoomba passenger rail don't worry. I know you are a big proponent!


Re Toowoomba line. It wouldn't be worth it for them to spend all that money for a sub standard non electrified service that doesn't integrate properly into network. If they want to compete with the coach services?

You would want fast acceleration out of stations to ensure improved travel times. Stops at Helidon Gatton Rosewood, Ipswich, Redbank Darra and Indooroopilly to make it profitable.
I don't think a diesel train has that capability of fast acceleration out of stations like an electric alternative has.

There might be issues with ventilation at certain stations like Ipswich and Toowong. Also ongoing issues with overall pollution control measures and cost of imported fuels.

I can see beyond Toowoomba retaining diesel services, but between Toowoomba and Brisbane electrification does make business sense.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 04:16:24 PM by verbatim9 »

Offline red dragin

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2020, 06:40:17 PM »
The initial outlay for the overhead supply (plus modifications to the signally as the track is the return path) would prohibit any electrification to Toowoomba. Would probably cost more than a single train set.

I'd rather see an extra service or two, than electrification. The trains are only going to be two or three cars at most in length, so should accelerate pretty quickly anyway.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2020, 08:22:57 PM »
The initial outlay for the overhead supply (plus modifications to the signally as the track is the return path) would prohibit any electrification to Toowoomba. Would probably cost more than a single train set.

I'd rather see an extra service or two, than electrification. The trains are only going to be two or three cars at most in length, so should accelerate pretty quickly anyway.
If that is the case? Might as well stick with the bus, faster with a better frequency.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2020, 01:40:39 PM »
They can be both?

Just use something like the Velocitys in Victoria. 160km/h diesel with no need for electrification.

160km/h is about as fast as you can go on narrow gauge anyway.

However, NSW is going one better with the XPT replacements that can run in Bi Mode
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2019/Fact%20sheet%20-%20Bi-mode%20technology%20-%20September%202019.pdf

So personally I would just use Bi Mode locomotives, run on electric to Rosewood (Which is not bad, almost halfway!)
, then diesel the rest of the way, however i would look at electrifying the final section up the range in the tunnel since electric is better for climbing hills.

It wouldn't be worth electrifying the whole way.

The whole point of passenger rail to Toowoomba being viable is that you are able to piggyback on someone elses infrastructure, so you save cost by only paying for rolling stock and station upgrades.

If you insist on electrifying, that's hundreds of millions extra.


Offline timh

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2020, 01:44:33 PM »
They can be both?

Just use something like the Velocitys in Victoria. 160km/h diesel with no need for electrification.

160km/h is about as fast as you can go on narrow gauge anyway.

However, NSW is going one better with the XPT replacements that can run in Bi Mode
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2019/Fact%20sheet%20-%20Bi-mode%20technology%20-%20September%202019.pdf

So personally I would just use Bi Mode locomotives, run on electric to Rosewood (Which is not bad, almost halfway!)
, then diesel the rest of the way, however i would look at electrifying the final section up the range in the tunnel since electric is better for climbing hills.

It wouldn't be worth electrifying the whole way.

The whole point of passenger rail to Toowoomba being viable is that you are able to piggyback on someone elses infrastructure, so you save cost by only paying for rolling stock and station upgrades.

If you insist on electrifying, that's hundreds of millions extra.
I was gonna suggest the Bi Mode ones but I couldn't remember the name. That's the best idea imo.

What I'm wondering is how electrification would work in the Inland rail tunnel if the tunnel is designed for double stacked freight trains. So the overhead wires would have to be squished right up against the ceiling, and the thingy to connect to the wires on the train (pantograph?) Would have to be super tall!

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Offline AnonymouslyBad

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2020, 11:38:59 PM »
They can be both?

Just use something like the Velocitys in Victoria. 160km/h diesel with no need for electrification.

160km/h is about as fast as you can go on narrow gauge anyway.

However, NSW is going one better with the XPT replacements that can run in Bi Mode
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2019/Fact%20sheet%20-%20Bi-mode%20technology%20-%20September%202019.pdf

Bi mode sounds good.

I don't think electrifying all the way to Toowoomba is a great use of money, but I also don't think we should be running diesel passenger trains on electrified line. So a train that can do both would be a great solution.

I don't think the VLocitys are anything to look up to in terms of how they're (ab)used. Not sure if it's because electricity's expensive, or the power grid's filthy, or what, but Victoria doesn't even bother electrifying anymore. Suburban sprawl? Just pretend it's regional and stick up some VLine signs so diesels can be pumped through every 6 minutes. And make sure the EPA never, ever, ever goes anywhere near Southern Cross station :)

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2020, 12:23:37 AM »
They need to improve the track to Helidon and it's mostly flat. Electrification can be done to Helidon, than later up to Toowoomba when an appropriate solution is reached.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2020, 12:32:40 AM »
They can be both?

Just use something like the Velocitys in Victoria. 160km/h diesel with no need for electrification.

160km/h is about as fast as you can go on narrow gauge anyway.

However, NSW is going one better with the XPT replacements that can run in Bi Mode
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2019/Fact%20sheet%20-%20Bi-mode%20technology%20-%20September%202019.pdf

So personally I would just use Bi Mode locomotives, run on electric to Rosewood (Which is not bad, almost halfway!)
, then diesel the rest of the way, however i would look at electrifying the final section up the range in the tunnel since electric is better for climbing hills.

It wouldn't be worth electrifying the whole way.

The whole point of passenger rail to Toowoomba being viable is that you are able to piggyback on someone elses infrastructure, so you save cost by only paying for rolling stock and station upgrades.

If you insist on electrifying, that's hundreds of millions extra.
The thingy to connect to the wires on the train (pantograph?) Would have to be super tall!

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You mean this


"Where there is a will there is a way"
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 12:44:01 AM by verbatim9 »

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Post Covid-19 Infrastructure pipeline
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2020, 03:44:58 PM »
If it uses the Inland Rail alignment to get to Toowoomba (which it would have to do short of building a separate line which would service nobody), it won't be electrified - period.  They are not provisioning the tunnel up the range for this, as it would be an unjustified cost increase.
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