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Online ozbob

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Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« on: November 02, 2019, 05:13:55 AM »
It is clear that SEQ is falling behind in terms of keeping up to date with rail infrastructure.  When you layer on fast rail the big question is where is the funding going to come from?

Please add to this list (NOT a priority list, just a general list of projects).

Consider ..

1.  Sunshine Coast line, a decade behind now.

2.  CAMCOS - nothing but a line on a piece of paper.

3.  Salisbury to Beaudesert commuter rail.

4.  Springfield Central - Ripley - Ipswich

5.  Cleveland line duplication.

6.   ATP for entire Citytrain network.

7.   DDA station compliance - very slow, often half baked, progress.  Deadline will not be met.

8.   Rollingstock, sufficient?

9.   Kuraby to Beenleigh upgrade.

10.  Level crossing removals.

11.  Inland freight - Acacia Ridge to the Port of Brisbane

12.  Doomben line duplication - Hamilton extension

13.  Gold Coast line extension to Coolangatta  Gold Coast Airport


Hard to have any real confidence.  CRR is pretty much a stranded investment at this time ...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 09:29:50 AM by ozbob »
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Offline Stillwater

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2019, 06:16:15 AM »
State Labor's solution is pretty simplistic - the money must come from Canberra under some notion of Queensland not getting its 'fair share', which revolves around not having sufficient funding to cope with the rapid growth of SEQ.  The Olympics for SEQ plan has been hatched to bring about additional PT transport, but even that won't be sufficient.

A congestion tax for Brisbane and probably a land tax levy on each and every Queenslander is the way to go, but neither political party has appetite for a 'big new tax' and each would attack the other for 'taxing Queenslanders for their own inefficiency and ineptitude' or some other claptrap.

A developer levy is also possible, although that tends to be imposed by councils for things such as parks, sewerage etc.

The state and feds should announce that a large road project on the list will be cancelled and the money diverted to PT instead. That can't be cancelling the Mackay Bypass for more trains and buses in Brisbane, because that is political suicide in the bush.  Would the public accept cancelling the last stage of the Ipswich Motorway Upgrade, for instance, in favour of rapid rail to Ipswich?  Or the Springfield Central-Ripley-Ipswich rail line extension?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2019, 06:50:49 AM »
Quote
The Olympics for SEQ plan has been hatched to bring about additional PT transport, but even that won't be sufficient.

Yes, let's have the R1 Pacific Motorway Regional Rapid Rail Line up and running in time for the Olympics. Maybe the IOC will put in some funds - they have in the past for stadiums etc. There would be a federal justification for investment - because it is the Olympics - an international event.

Quote
A congestion tax for Brisbane and probably a land tax levy on each and every Queenslander is the way to go, but neither political party has appetite for a 'big new tax' and each would attack the other for 'taxing Queenslanders for their own inefficiency and ineptitude' or some other claptrap.

Government generally doesn't budge until the pressure/crisis overcomes the inertia. One of these things is the fall in revenue from petrol taxes as cars transition to electric. At some point that money has to be made up, so a road user charge will probably come into force.

... but not a moment sooner than absolutely necessary.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2019, 07:41:27 AM »
Quote
It is clear that SEQ is falling behind in terms of keeping up to date with rail infrastructure.  When you layer on fast rail the big question is where is the funding going to come from?

Please add to this list.

A key problem is that the urban form is ineffective. Building housing at great distances from centres of work means that

lines (bus or rail) need to be extended there to connect. That means great expense and time to add to a network that is

already not great and has many legacy issues.


I think part of the solution is to have some contribution from local councils to public transport operation - this could be

small and nominal, say 5-10%. It would get them thinking about the costs of approving low density development.


The second thing is to discourage low-density development and replace it with medium density. This could be things like

townhouses, duplexes or triplexes, courtyard apartments. We are not talking towers. More people mean more tax revenue

from land tax and stamp duties. There needs to be TOD zoning around stations so that they generate funds rather than

consume it in the form of $60 000/space car parks.


I note that in NSW some assets were sold or leased (e.g. NSW grid), and those funds were used to pay for other

infrastructure upgrades. There are no easy answers, but that's politics.

Olympics

Olympics can be hosted with money to spare, says Queensland 2032 bid official

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympics-can-be-hosted-with-money-to-spare-says-queensland-2032-bid-official-20190906-p52orj.html

Quote
Previous Games have become huge financial burdens on host cities, which in turn has killed off suitors for such a gargantuan sporting event. With strict new rules around existing stadia and facilities and the promise of a $2.5 billion kick from the IOC coffers, Jamieson said another Australian Games could even have some change left over.

"All of Queensland and all of Australia were contributors to the infrastructure on the Gold Coast (2018 Commonwealth Games) and this would be a similar situation. We have been buoyed from the advice from Thomas Bach about the sort of funding the IOC will provide. We actually believe it’s possible to at least break even, if not make a small profit, on the Games themselves," he said.

^^ The IOC will put in $2.5 billion, maybe some of that can go to the R1 train.
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Offline timh

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2019, 08:24:09 AM »
#Metro: you can add the following to the list:

- Doomben Line Duplication (overdue by about 50 years)

- Hamilton extension

- GCL extension to OOL

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Offline #Metro

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2019, 08:33:26 AM »

I think it is obvious that we cannot have it all, right now. Things need to be prioritised.

We need to get bus reforms up in the air. That is high benefit/low cost.

Heavy infrastructure (e.g. anything that involves lots of concrete) is very expensive.

Remember, there are regional cities as well.

What principles would you use to prioritise?
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Offline timh

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2019, 08:38:46 AM »
Cost to benefit ratio for the largest number of people I would say would be how you would rank priorities. How long it's been overdue since promised could probably be part of it too.

SCL duplication is up there then due to it being pretty necessary to have the network actually function properly.

Doomben duplication I would prioritise highly too coz it would be a very low cost upgrade that can deliver a lot of benefits.

GCL capacity upgrades would also be a high priority, despite its expense, due to it benefiting a large amount of people.

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Online ozbob

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2019, 09:06:15 AM »
#Metro: you can add the following to the list:

- Doomben Line Duplication (overdue by about 50 years)

- Hamilton extension

- GCL extension to OOL

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Added to OP. 
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Offline Stillwater

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2019, 10:25:46 AM »
Much of the savings made by electric car owners is made up of the fuel excise payment avoided, causing some to say that these owners are 'bludging' on the system by not contributing their fair share to road infrastructure costs. That remains the impression, even though fuel excise goes into Consolidated Revenue and is not specifically linked to the annual roads construction budget.

A component of the fuel excise is collected by the Commonwealth on behalf of the states after the states lost a High Court challenge to them charging fuel franchise fees/sales tax on petrol. By 1995-96, these state-based fees were raising $4.9 billion, representing just over 16 per cent of total State and Territory taxation revenue. After the states lost the court challenge, the Commonwealth added 8c a litre to the excise it charged and passed this money to the states.

States and territories can ask the Federal Government to charge more for fuel across the board and pass the additional revenue to them. I don't know why Queensland doesn't organise with other states and territories to make this request, as the backlash for higher fuel prices would fall on the Feds, not the various state governments.

All this won't matter in a few short years.

I wish I had retained the source, but I read the other day that by 2050, the ratio of new electric cars sold in Australia to new carbon fuel vehicles would be 70:30.  The fuel excise arrangements will be thrown into chaos.  Watch for governments moving quickly to a distance travelled road user charge.  We can expect to receive a quarterly road user charge invoice, much the same way as the electricity bill arrives now.  It will force individuals to consider whether to pay more for the electric/fuel car, or reduce the bill by travelling by PT.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 10:33:08 AM by Stillwater »

Offline Gazza

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2019, 10:32:12 AM »
Right now, the two main ones are the Sunshine Coast and Cleveland duplications, because they fundamentally influence network operations.

Everything else is in the nice to have category and introduces additional recurrent running costs .

(This is just line upgrades, Lift installation needs to be more urgent too)

Online ozbob

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 01:44:30 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

3rd November 2019

SEQ heavy rail infrastructure backlog ...

Good Morning,

The backlog in heavy rail projects in SEQ continues to worsen.   Cross River Rail alone will not deliver the rail services that will be needed to provide sustainable accessible public transport.  Below is a list of projects that need acceleration.  We will be looking for real commitments to getting a lot of these past the 'line on paper' stage to actuality during the forthcoming state election.

Consider ..

1.  Sunshine Coast line  duplication north of Beerburrum, a decade behind now.

2.  CAMCOS ( Caboolture to Maroochydore Corridor Study ) - nothing but a line on a piece of paper.

3.  Salisbury to Beaudesert commuter rail.  In limbo since 2010.

4.  Springfield Central - Ripley - Ipswich rail extension. A project being championed by Ipswich City Council.

5.  Cleveland line duplication.

6.   ATP (automatic train protection) for entire Citytrain network.

7.   DDA station compliance - often half baked when done, e.g. partial platform raising, progress very slow.  DDA compliance deadline will not be met.

8.   Rollingstock, sufficient numbers, even with the 75 NGR trains?

9.   Kuraby to Beenleigh upgrade. How will 5 minute peak services on the Gold Coast line be achievable unless there is track capacity improvement?

10.  Level crossing removals. Stagnation since 2014. As train frequency increases there will be road network chaos at peak times unless removal is stepped up.

11.  Inland freight line - Acacia Ridge to the Port of Brisbane?

12.  Doomben line duplication - Hamilton extension.  Fifty years behind.

13.  Gold Coast line extension to Coolangatta  Gold Coast Airport.

The above list is not a priority list, but a general list of the network shortfalls.   It does not paint a bright picture for progress does it?

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Online ozbob

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2019, 01:49:32 AM »
Facebook ...

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Online ozbob

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2019, 01:55:47 AM »
https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1190710462196805632
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 05:21:49 AM by ozbob »
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Online ozbob

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Re: Rail infrastructure backlog ..
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 05:01:54 AM »
Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 5th November 2019 page 29

Future rail projects falling badly behind

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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