New SMU 260 - 280 / IMU 160 - 180 series sightings

[ozbob]

SMU 265 /264 were on the 6.35 am Darra to town sweeper yesterday (7th Sep), I enjoyed the ride!   

[Derwan]

SM7265: ?

That's the car number.  It corresponds to set 265. 

This is usually all I see on the cars outside EDI Rail.  The number at either end appears to be one of the last things they do.

[mufreight]

SMU 267/272 ran 2.52pm Redbank service ex Central.

[p858snake]

271: Ferny Grove (Departing 7:15) → Cleveland
269: ? → ? [Possibly Ferny Grove or Mitchelton] (Passed New Market: 5:10)

[stephenk]

278 has been at Mayne this week.

Now the 260-270s are widespread, do we still need a thread on every sighting?

[Derwan]

Now the 260-270s are widespread, do we still need a thread on every sighting?

I think it's good to keep track of the new sets as they are built, arrive in Brisbane, are tested and begin revenue service.  Now that there are plenty of them, I personally don't think it's necessary to post about sightings beyond that.  I have been on board a number of 260-270 services and see plenty of others - sometimes several in one day.  The new trains a great!  But I don't think it's necessary to post about each time I'm on one or see one.

[Mozz]

Now the 260-270s are widespread, do we still need a thread on every sighting?

I have been on board a number of 260-270 services and see plenty of others - sometimes several in one day.  The new trains a great! 

Then you wouldn't be travelling on the ipswich/cab line then from my experience, it's a great way to see our electric train history, I highly recommend travelling this line if this is what interests you

[ozbob]

This thread is fine.  Most folks are just posting new sightings now. It will fizzle naturally ...  Bandwidth is cheap  

[Derwan]

Then you wouldn't be travelling on the ipswich/cab line then from my experience, it's a great way to see our electric train history, I highly recommend travelling this line if this is what interests you

Speaking of that - yesterday I saw EMU's 01 and 02 together on the Shorncliffe line.

But back on topic - I see plenty of trains between Northgate and Central, with services to/from Shorncliffe, Caboolture (plus North Coast) and Ferny Grove - so I guess the chances of me seeing the new sets in service are higher.

[WTN]

Boarded Cleveland service at 2:47pm ex Central on SMU 276/274 today.  Sat in lead car and noticed the "new car smell".  The windows, seats and floor looking all nice and clean.  Was a comfy ride!  Transit officers checked tickets and go cards (with reader) between Central and Roma Street.

[Derwan]

Another trip to Maryborough on the weekend.  Got a few photos this time.

Completed 279 at Maryborough Station:




A completed Perth set also at Maryborough Station:



Temporary bogeys:



At EDI Rail.  Not clear in the photo, a centre car of a QR set (presumably 282) followed by 2 Perth carriages and then an end car of 282.  The other end car of 282 is behind the diesel loco on the right.



Closer image of the end car:



Swing 'round to see the other end car (the one behind the diesel):



We went past Saturday as well when everything was open.  Saw the ends of a few more carriages - including one without a roof.  Saw a few diesels as well.

[O_128]

The perth sets are intersting provisions for bikes as with the sticker. I think all trains should have bikeracks in them just cut out a wheelchair spot

[ozbob]

Thanks for the update Derwan, excellent!

Re bicycles on Perth trains, some enlightenment there! 

They still have some restrictions though:

http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/cycling/1978.asp

Peak travel and peak flow

Owing to passenger congestion at our busiest times, bikes are not permitted on trains travelling towards the city during the hours of 7.00am to 9.00am, and away from the city during the hours of 4.00pm to 6.30pm.

bikes on trains    

Off peak travel and counterflow

Now you can take your bike on the train anytime during the weekend and off peak times. You can also take your bike on trains travelling in the opposite direction to peak flow. This is called the "counterflow" direction and means that bikes can travel on all the morning trains travelling away from the city, and on the afternoon ones travelling towards the city.

Bikes at Perth Train Station

Perth Train Station is busiest during the Monday to Friday peak times of 7.00am to 9.00am and 4.30pm to 6.30pm. Therefore bikes are not permitted on trains stopping at, or passing through this station at these times. If you are approaching Perth Train Station prior to the commencement of a peak period, you will need to disembark at either Leederville, City West or McIver and continue your journey on the bike paths using pedal power.

[p858snake]

that is the same policy as QR isn't it?

[ozbob]

More or less the same ..

http://www.citytrain.com.au/plan_your_trip/bicycles/bicycles.asp

Travelling with your bike on QR services

You are permitted to travel on a QR service with your bike at all times during weekends and public holidays.

Bicycles are permitted on QR services on weekdays at all times, excluding the following **peak times  due to safety, customer service, cleanliness and capacity issues:

    * Between 7:00am - 9:30am towards the CBD
    * Between 3:00pm - 6:30pm outwards from the CBD     

To avoid travelling during these peak times all passengers with bicycles must complete their morning journey by 7:00am toward the CBD and complete their afternoon journey from the CBD by 3:00pm.

During these peak times, passengers with bicycles are permitted to travel in the following opposite direction  avoiding the specified peak times above.

During peak hours, bicycles will not be permitted to pass through the CBD (Fortitude Valley [Brunswick Street], Central and Roma Street).

Passengers with fold-up bicycles are permitted to travel at anytime as long as they are contained in a carry bag and are within the following dimensions, 79cm x 59cm x 36cm. 

[Arnz]

SMU278 was at Landsborough this afternoon before turning back to Mayne.  It was on test train duties.

[Derwan]

Another trip to Maryborough.  SMU 279 and the Perth train were still sitting at Maryborough West.  (No big deal that 279 hasn't been transferred to Brissy yet.  There are plenty of trains to introduce new services once QR gets the go-ahead from TransLink.)

At EDI Rail, 280 looks complete (with badging and numbering).  Another set looks close to completion beside it.  (It doesn't have markings at either end and I didn't see the numbers on the side.  Perhaps it's 281.)  A single car of 282 sits beside a diesel loco to the left.



I knew we were getting close to the end of the first batch of SMU's (284) and figured we'd see the production of IMU's 177 to 180 fairly soon.  Today I spotted a single car of IMU 177!



Should we start another thread for IMU sightings? 

[Derwan]

Reviving Stephenk's favourite thread. 

Another trip to Maryborough.  (Unfortunately I forgot my camera!)  279 is still at Maryborough station.  That's over 2 months now - unless it's been returned like 273.  280 is also at Maryborough station, while 281 seems to have leapfrogged them and is sitting at Maryborough West.

282 is looking complete outside EDI Rail.  A single carriage of 179 is also outside EDI Rail along with another unmarked carriage.

No doubt many more in the sheds.  (No sign of 177 that I spotted last time - unless it was fast-tracked for use when the Varsity extension is commissioned.)

[Mozz]

Minister said today that on average 1 new train per month with 33 delivered thus far .... if this is in 3 years then that's about right if we use January 2007 as the kickoff announcement for new trains.

[Jon Bryant]

How many more units would be need to be able to run a 5 min peak hour service on all lines?  Ignore any physical or signalling constraints? Include maintenance rotations. How many units are we short?

[stephenk]

How many more units would be need to be able to run a 5 min peak hour service on all lines?  Ignore any physical or signalling constraints? Include maintenance rotations. How many units are we short?

What an utterly pointless question. You might as well ask how many flying pigs we need for a 15 min off-peak service. 

How about, how many more units would be need to run the current network to it's maximum peak capacity?

[Sunbus639]

Thanks for the scoop photos there Derwan.

[Jon Bryant]

How about answering both questions!!!  If we don't plan for the future we have failed to plan!!!   

Our Government's are taking little baby steps to increase public transport whilst we need a "step-change" in public transport use.  Lets start identifying the massive work required to make this change.  With petrol predicted to be $4 a litre by 2016 ( a new study but I have lost the reference) we need to be planning for a 15 min off-peak service and a 5min peak service or better on our existing lines...not to mention completely new lines.

So answer these questions:

1. how many more units would be need to run the current network to it's maximum peak capacity? - No.1 priority;
2. what network improvements need to be implemented (in addition to the current projects/plans) to allow a 10-15 min off-peak service and a 5 min peak service or better - No.2 priority; and
2. how many more units would be need to run a 10-15 min off-peak service and a 5 min peak service or better.

Answer these and we have a good start to the network plan for the next 5 years...for rail anyway.  It will need a few more lines such as Redcliffe and other proposed.

Anyway. Way off topic now.

[somebody]

How about answering both questions!!!  If we don't plan for the future we have failed to plan!!!   

Our Government's are taking little baby steps to increase public transport whilst we need a "step-change" in public transport use.  Lets start identifying the massive work required to make this change.  With petrol predicted to be $4 a litre by 2016 ( a new study but I have lost the reference) we need to be planning for a 15 min off-peak service and a 5min peak service or better on our existing lines...not to mention completely new lines.

So answer these questions:

1. how many more units would be need to run the current network to it's maximum peak capacity? - No.1 priority;
2. what network improvements need to be implemented (in addition to the current projects/plans) to allow a 10-15 min off-peak service and a 5 min peak service or better - No.2 priority; and
2. how many more units would be need to run a 10-15 min off-peak service and a 5 min peak service or better.

Answer these and we have a good start to the network plan for the next 5 years...for rail anyway.  It will need a few more lines such as Redcliffe and other proposed.

Anyway. Way off topic now.

I disagree with your priorities.  Most people near a train station aren't driving in peak to the city at present, I would think.  Why wouldn't they just get the train and avoid the congestion?

The top priority is the off peak service.  The main limitation here is training enough crews.
Next is adding peak services to reduce congestion
Then sorting out the peak timetables which are currently a dog's breakfast.

[Jon Bryant]

Good point.  It also goes to my other comment in 310,000 new seats topic. Which was keep the trains running and stop the Bowen Hills and Roma Street termination of trains in peak hour. After we have trained enough crews to do that we must start to increase peak hour (and train more crews) as we are only moving small % of trips even in peak hour.  This is partly lack of new lines but we have to start with what we got.   Unfortunately there are too many people who do live near train stations who do not catch the train as they work in a location not served well/qickly by PT.

[mufreight]

A little dose of reality,
off peak service frequencies are presently inadequate a point that few will argue.
more commuters will use rail if the off peak services are ramped up, their deterent at the present time is the lack of frequency either on their forward or return journey and if the off peak frequencies are improved these additional passengers will be encouraged to use rail as a matter of convenience.
Because many of the additional commuters will only make either the forward or the return journey in a peak the peak capacity will also need to be increased by also improving the service frequency during the peak.
The realistic practical constraints at this time are crews and rollingstock and infrastructue capacity.
The less than practical constraint is funding for the operation of services but the body controling the funding would seem to be more concerned about funding a bureaucratic hydra instead of funding the operation of services for the community of commuters.
Incidentaly has the operating agreement for the current year between QR Passenger and Translink been finalised as yet?  Anyone know?

[somebody]

The realistic practical constraints at this time are crews and rollingstock and infrastructue capacity.

Crews yes, but why's rollingstock & infrastructure a constraint to improving off peak services?

[mufreight]

If you do not have the trains you can not operate them, trains although there may physicaly be enough in terms of numbers at first glance the numbers do not allow for those out of service for maintenance, overhaul reduces the numbers and defered maintenance eventualy means even more in service failures.
The levels of incompatibility between the EMU's, first series SMU's and the current builds exacerbates this problem as the failure of a three car set of one series takes two three car sets out of service if a six car set is required and a spare three car set of the same series is not avaliable at that time.

[somebody]

If you do not have the trains you can not operate them, trains although there may physicaly be enough in terms of numbers at first glance the numbers do not allow for those out of service for maintenance, overhaul reduces the numbers and defered maintenance eventualy means even more in service failures.
The levels of incompatibility between the EMU's, first series SMU's and the current builds exacerbates this problem as the failure of a three car set of one series takes two three car sets out of service if a six car set is required and a spare three car set of the same series is not avaliable at that time.

Aren't you being a bit of a drama queen here?  I'm sure that the maintenance yards can't handle more than a fraction of the sets that would be out of service off peak with improved off peak frequency.

[mufreight]

No. a proper maintenence schedule takes a set out of service for longer than the gap between peaks and incidental failures between scheduled services can mean a set is out of service for hours, Murphy's law sais that these failure nwill happen at any time, usually the worst possible time such as when a set is being returned to service prior to a peak, hence to minimise these problems they try to run to a schedule for maintenence.

[WTN]

SMU278 was doing morning Ipswich-Caboolture runs this Tuesday and Wednesday.

[Jon Bryant]

@mufreight.  How many units can be worked on in any one time and how many per day? I suspect it can not be all the units taken out of peak hour service. It may be a fair % but certainly not all.   

[mufreight]

Depending on the defect a unit with a defect is not supposed to be placed in service, frequently the defects are not apparent or noted until a train is being prepared for service in which case due to the time facrtors either the service is cancelled or another set is substituted and the defective train is then broken up with the defective unit taken out of service until such time as the defect is rectified.
remarshling train sets takes time and there has to be another compatable unit avaliable to make up the six car set to be placed in traffic.
Hope that this clears the air a little.

[somebody]

Still can't see how either rollingstock or infrastructure is a constraint to improving off peak services.  I'm sure they currently have a margin of extra sets as compared to the peak requirements to allow for maintenance, and since they have been adding sets without improving services, that margin would be increasing.

[mufreight]

Yes you are right the system is now gaining an operating margin with the numbers of new sets being placed in service but there is an existing backlog of defered maintenence to catch up on and the governing factor here is staff and facilities with the further constraint of budget.
Progress is being made but with the demand for increased levels of service being met by trickling in additional services it is a slow process meantime those set in service continue to develop defects and the new sets now being delivered are not imune from failures.

[somebody]

Yes you are right the system is now gaining an operating margin with the numbers of new sets being placed in service but there is an existing backlog of defered maintenence to catch up on and the governing factor here is staff and facilities with the further constraint of budget.
Progress is being made but with the demand for increased levels of service being met by trickling in additional services it is a slow process meantime those set in service continue to develop defects and the new sets now being delivered are not imune from failures.

Thank you.

So, if rail transport in Brisbane is to be expanded, are you saying that we need greater maintenance capacity then?

I'm also wonderring if the existing stabling facilities will fill up anytime soon?

[Derwan]

I'm also wonderring if the existing stabling facilities will fill up anytime soon?

This is something that I've been wondering.  The new sections at Mayne appear to be well-used.  We've got 4 completed trains sitting up in Maryborough and another 6 to come (as part of the order for 44).  There are more to come after that as well - so where are we going to put them all?

[mufreight]

No doubt that some will e stabled at Robina/Varsety Lakes when the new section opens, I understand that the stabeling capacity there has been increased so that may be part of the answer.

[ozbob]

Yes,  more stabling at Robina.  Poor photograph but top left is the new stabling being built ..

Looking towards Nerang ..



Photograph R Dow 26th November 2009

[Otto]

Using Nearmap will give you a very clear highres image..

Type in http://www.nearmap.com to go to nearmap... Select home user.... When you have the map screen, type in the FIND box, Robina, Queensland, Australia.
Select the first option in the popup box and you will see Robina from very high up.... Use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom in closer. The image will get blurry, But wait !! The image will then download a higher resolution map that will be crystal clear !! You will see the new Stabling yard at Robina station.... The image is only 16 days old !! MUCH better than Google Maps !!