TransLink bus services for Flagstone

[verbatim9]

Flagstone growth area gets its first TransLink bus service

Couriermail Quest------->https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/questnews/logan/flagstone-growth-area-gets-its-first-translink-bus-service/news-story/cf584df05f1b9bd6be7736885e8b2fc3

Flagstone growth area gets its first TransLink bus service
Residents in the state's fastest growth corridor have finally got a 10-year funding deal for the area's first TransLink bus service into Brisbane.

Judith Kerr, Quest Newspapers

July 15, 2019 4:00pm
Flagstone residents will soon be able to catch a bus to Brisbane using a go-card.

GREATER Flagstone residents will soon have access to TransLink-operated bus services thanks to a $19.6 million funding deal connecting the key southeast growth area with the wider SEQ bus network.

The service, between Greater Flagstone and Grand Plaza Shopping Centre, at Browns Plains, will connect local transport hubs to express services into Brisbane.


The new route will be classed as Zone 3 from start to finish, with a typical go-card fare from Greater Flagstone to Browns Plains costing $3.31, or $6.61 to go to the Brisbane CBD.

First services are expected to begin before December in Trailblazer Dve, Flagstone, and will include stops through to Browns Plains.

The one-way trip distance is about 26km, with an estimated trip time of 40 minutes.

Services will initially be Monday to Friday, between 5.30am to 7.30pm.

Economic Development Queensland and the Transport Department will provide the funds over 10 years, allowing TransLink to introduce more bus services as demand increases.

State Development Minister Cameron Dick said the government was committed to providing public transport to the Greater Flagstone Priority Development Area, the state's fastest population-growth corridor.

He said by 2066, the Flagstone Greater Priority Development Area would be home to about 120,000 residents.

Logan MP Linus Power said the bus service was an example of government and industry working together to deliver smart transport.

"And both journeys will be even cheaper for pensioners, students, and during off-peak times."

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/7/16/first-bus-service-announced-for-greater-flagstone-pda

Media Statements
Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Tuesday, July 16, 2019

First bus service announced for Greater Flagstone PDA

Greater Flagstone residents will soon have access to Translink-operated bus services thanks to a $19.6 million funding agreement connecting the key south-east growth area with the wider SEQ bus network.

Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning Cameron Dick said the new services are set to begin in late November and will support future growth within the Greater Flagstone Priority Development Area (PDA).

"The Palaszczuk Government is committed to providing reliable and convenient public transport in Queensland's fastest population-growth corridor," Mr Dick said.

"The services will run between the Greater Flagstone PDA and Grand Plaza Shopping Centre, Browns Plains, giving locals more transport options when it comes to work and community services.

"Economic Development Queensland and the Department of Transport and Main Roads have worked together to deliver public transport service to Greater Flagstone.

"Our $19.6 million funding agreement over 10 years will see TransLink progressively introduce more bus services as demand increases."

By 2066 it's estimated the Greater Flagstone PDA will be home to approximately 120,000 residents.

Member for Jordan Charis Mullen said the Palaszczuk Government would continue monitoring growth in Flagstone to make sure services matched population.

"As the community grows, TransLink's services will grow with it," Ms Mullen said.

"This will ensure our community remains liveable, and attractive for people looking to move here.

"Residents will be better connected to employment, education, shops, and recreational spaces.

"It's about improving lifestyle and opportunity, both locally and across the wider Logan region."

Member for Logan Linus Power said this was a great example of government and industry working together to deliver smart transport solutions.

"Charis and I have fought for a proper Translink service that connects residents with key local transport hubs, and from these points onto express services to the Brisbane CBD," Mr Power said.

"This new route will also be classed as Zone 3 from start to finish, which is great news for the community.

This means that using your go card, a trip from Greater Flagstone to Browns Plains will cost $3.31, or $6.61 if you're heading onto the Brisbane CBD.

"And both journeys will be even cheaper for pensioners, students, and during off-peak times."

First services are proposed to begin in Trailblazer Drive, Flagstone, and will include stops through to Browns Plains.

Trip distance (one way) is approximately 26 kms, with an estimated trip time of 40 minutes.

Services will initially be provided Monday to Friday, between 5.30am to 7.30pm, with greater frequency during peak periods to cater for demand.

Community information sessions discussing the route, timetable and stop locations will be held during October and November.

For more information on SEQ public transport, visit the TransLink website (external site) or call 13 12 30.

ENDS

[SurfRail]

No weekend services = shameful.  Why even bother?

[#Metro]

"Our $19.6 million funding agreement over 10 years will see TransLink progressively introduce more bus services as demand increases."

So $1.9 million per year. Isn't that what the gross cost of operating a BUZ service is in Brisbane? How much service would that buy out at Flagstone? Maybe hourly?

Notice how neither the route number nor frequency are mentioned.

Trip distance (one way) is approximately 26 kms, with an estimated trip time of 40 minutes.

^ This is about double what the ideal bus route length is. 40 minutes one way is really pushing the limit of a reasonable commuting time. I hope the seat comes with extra padding!

[AnonymouslyBad]

Notice how neither the route number nor frequency are mentioned.

This, plus the long lead time, makes me think they haven't worked out any of the logistics yet, or even who'll be asked to operate it. They're simply announcing that they got a bit of funding - something that shouldn't need an announcement, it should just be business-as-usual for any growth areas.

Trip distance (one way) is approximately 26 kms, with an estimated trip time of 40 minutes.

^ This is about double what the ideal bus route length is. 40 minutes one way is really pushing the limit of a reasonable commuting time. I hope the seat comes with extra padding!

The length doesn't seem bad for what it is. We're talking about a semi-rural area that developers desperately hope some cul-de-sacs will turn into suburbia (even though suburbia is 20km away). Assuming the new service follows the 540 route then splits off at Jimboomba, which it probably should, it seems a reasonable trip time.

[James]

^ If you look at Google Maps, the distance to travel from Browns Plains to Flagstone is 25km via the Mount Lindesay Highway (shortest route is 23km via Teviot Road). When you consider any potential diversions to the route and any additional route-km to access bus infrastructure, 26km is probably about spot-on.

The problem is the State Government has established suburban-density housing in the middle of nowhere. Goodness knows why people continue to move out that way...

[City Designer]

Teviot Road picks up the Pub Lane shops and Everleigh in Greenbank although Jimboomba is obviously the nearest major centre to Flagstone.

[#Metro]

Only a matter of time before someone suggests a $2 billion rail extension out to whoop whoop, which will only run service half hourly during the day...

[verbatim9]

^^Springfield, Toowoomba, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast line extension to OOL will before that.

[achiruel]

^^Springfield, Toowoomba, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast line extension to OOL will before that.

Three of those I'd agree with. The other one, hmmm, not sure.

[ozbob]

Media Statements

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2019/10/18/first-bus-service-to-hit-the-road-in-greater-flagstone

Minister for State Development, Manufacturing, Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Friday, October 18, 2019

First bus service to hit the road in Greater Flagstone

The first bus service connecting the Greater Flagstone Priority Development Area (PDA) to the wider public transport network will commence on 18 November.

Minister for State Development Cameron Dick said the Palaszczuk Government has partnered with TransLink and four local developers to deliver the first stage of a 10-year public transport plan.

"The 535 service will provide an improved lifestyle for residents and opportunities to better connect to employment, education, shops and social activities," Mr Dick said.

"Over the next 10 years the $19.6 million funding agreement will see TransLink progressively introduce more bus services as local demand calls for it."

Member for Jordan Charis Mullen said the new route would connect the Greater Flagstone Priority Development Area (PDA) with Grand Plaza Shopping Centre in Browns Plains from Monday 18 November.

"The service will start in Trailblazer Drive, pick up and drop off at Flagstone state and high schools, connect with the Greenbank Shopping Centre and Greenbank RSL Stop A, and finish the run by providing access to retail and essential services at Grand Plaza," Ms Mullen said.

"There are high-frequency connections to Brisbane from the Greenbank stops and Grand Plaza has all-day connections to Brisbane and other areas of Logan, meaning this service will provide residents of the Greater Flagstone PDA with essential transport options and connections.

Member for Logan Linus Power said the new service was great news for residents.

"With a go card a trip from Greater Flagstone to Browns Plains will cost $3.31, or $6.61 if you're heading onto the Brisbane CBD, with even cheaper travel for pensioners, students, and during off-peak times," he said.

"Charis Mullen and I fought hard to secure this service for our communities, and I'm particularly pleased the whole route will be classified as Zone 3, making it affordable for Greater Flagstone residents to get around."

Services will initially be provided Monday to Friday between 5.30am to 7.30pm, with greater frequency during peak periods to cater for demand.

Mr Dick said the service was the result of hard work by the local members, and a strong partnership between Economic Development Queensland, Translink and local developers.

"I want to thank Villa World, Mirvac, Peet and Orchard Property Group for supporting these growing communities to connect to south-east Queensland," he said.

For more information on the Greater Flagstone 535 service visit the TransLink website (external site) or call 13 12 30 anytime.

Visit TransLink's Journey Planner (external site) to plan your journey today.

ENDS

[SurfRail]

It's not completely terrible (at least compared with some of the northern Gold Coast routes), but this strange fascination TransLink has for not operating buses 7 days a week is really starting to grate on me, as is the lack of at least hourly headways. 

This is not adequate and will continue leading to everybody still driving.  Why even bother.

[achiruel]

It's not completely terrible (at least compared with some of the northern Gold Coast routes), but this strange fascination TransLink has for not operating buses 7 days a week is really starting to grate on me, as is the lack of at least hourly headways. 

This is not adequate and will continue leading to everybody still driving.  Why even bother.

I suspect PRT simply doesn't have enough vehicles to provide a clockface counterpeak service.
The absence of weekend services can simply only come down to money, though.

Maybe this is just the State Government's way of saying "look, even though permitted a housing estate to be built in the middle of bumf**k nowhere, we're providing a public transport service to reduce traffic etc" even though the net effect is likely to be near zero.

[SurfRail]

It's not completely terrible (at least compared with some of the northern Gold Coast routes), but this strange fascination TransLink has for not operating buses 7 days a week is really starting to grate on me, as is the lack of at least hourly headways. 

This is not adequate and will continue leading to everybody still driving.  Why even bother.

I suspect PRT simply doesn't have enough vehicles to provide a clockface counterpeak service.
The absence of weekend services can simply only come down to money, though.

Maybe this is just the State Government's way of saying "look, even though permitted a housing estate to be built in the middle of bumf**k nowhere, we're providing a public transport service to reduce traffic etc" even though the net effect is likely to be near zero.

The contractor's own wishes and priorities are irrelevant, TransLink funds the system.

They are hopeless.  Do they just not get it?

[AnonymouslyBad]

You know things are grim when a single bus route, with this kind of schedule, is being touted as a major achievement.

[ozbob]

New bus route for Flagstone (535)

https://translink.com.au/about-translink/projects-and-initiatives#bod1562295261944

Timetable > https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/191118-535.PDF

[#Metro]

BCC doesn't want low density to be infilled to medium.

Most of the city is low density zoning.

So the only alternative is to go to near no density land, where no NIMBYs are and build there.

And then expend billions just to connect it on a 2 train/hr cycle. And don't forget the mandatory $60,000 car spaces.

It's like getting butter and spreading it real thinly.

This is how we use / waste our money.

Challenging these 'cultural truths' about who we are is taboo.

Why don't we compare road and rail projects against each other at project selecting stages?

Why do we insist on building 500 car parks at the station when building 250 apartments adjacent to it would have the same effect and possibly turn a profit and tax revenue as well??

Just allowing duplex and triplex across the city could unlock many more homes, as could default TOD zoning around stations.

[timh]

BCC doesn't want low density to be infilled to medium..

That's not true. BCC (particularly the blue team variant) is very pro infill development, so much so they're usually just accused of being shills for property developers and get constant complaints from NIMBY residents that there are way too many apartments. Within BCCs council boundary, I think it was something like only 10% of new developments this year will be greenfield.

Flagstone isnt even in BCCs boundary anyways so not sure how they're relevant


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[#Metro]

^ Diasagree. LM Schrinner is on the record trying to ban townhouses and duplexes.

[timh]

Townhouses and duplexes I have less knowledge on than apartments, but in MacGregor and Runcorn ward near where I live  there is currently a huge amount of infill development happening, strongly supported by Cr Huang and Cr Marx. Both have actively pushed for it and have been in a lot of talks and consultation sessions with local Nimbys explaining how apartments won't create the traffic/lifestyle apocalypse they think it will.

Runcorn/fruitgrove/Sunnybank is seeing quite a few subdivisions of larger blocks and UMG is filled with apartments. I can't speak for the rest of Brisbane but at least around here council is actively pro-infill

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[achiruel]

Flagstone isnt even in BCCs boundary anyways so not sure how they're relevant

It's relevant because BCC's refusal to increase density has increased the price of real-estate in the BCC area such that many people who work in BCC can't afford to live there, pushing them into urban sprawl areas like this.

[James]

It's relevant because BCC's refusal to increase density has increased the price of real-estate in the BCC area such that many people who work in BCC can't afford to live there, pushing them into urban sprawl areas like this.

Go look at Newstead, West End, Toowong and Coorparoo, and tell me with a straight face that BCC is 'refusing to increase density'. You are never going to reduce the cost of land as land is a finite resource. You can't produce a second Toowong because there is no second Toowong. BCC is doing the best it can with the land & space it has to provide more dense housing.

Because of the cost of construction in Australia, it is very difficult to build new 'affordable housing', so the older housing stock tends to be what becomes the 'affordable housing'. Nevertheless, there are numerous 3br apartments & townhouses around the southside going for less than $400k, some closer to $300k.

Flagstone is a state government PDA, and is a development disaster precisely because it is so isolated from the rest of the urban form and without employment opportunities and shops like Springfield.

You know things are grim when a single bus route, with this kind of schedule, is being touted as a major achievement.

Agree. While Flagstone most certainly isn't deserving of a BUZ, with a two-hourly interpeak frequency and no weekend services, this is nothing more than a glorified peak-hour rocket. All it'll do is free up capacity at local park 'n' rides (if that) as some peak hour commuters shift to the 535 bus instead of driving to a nearby bus stop.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Flagstone to get its own 535 bus service next month

A DATE has finally been set for the first bus service for the emerging residential estate of Flagstone.

The 535 bus service, which will be classified as zone 3, will run from Flagstone to the Browns Plains Grand Plaza Shopping Centre starting on November 18.

The service will start in Trailblazer Dve and include stops at schools, the Greenbank Shopping Centre at Pub Lane, and Greenbank RSL.

A go card trip from Flagstone to Browns Plains will cost $3.31 and a connection service to the Brisbane CBD will be $6.61.

The bus service will be part of a 10-year plan to rollout public transport to the emerging area, branded as the fastest growing region in the state.

Four developers, Villa World, Mirvac, Peet and Orchard Property Group, joined forces to provide the service.

State Planning Minister Cameron Dick said TransLink would progressively introduce more bus services as local demand called for it over the next 10 years under the $19.6 million funding agreement with developers.

The one-way trip is about 26km, with an estimated trip time of 40 minutes.

Services will initially be Monday to Friday, between 5.30am to 7.30pm.

There will be high frequency connections to Brisbane from the Greenbank RSL and Grand Plaza has all-day connections to Brisbane and other areas of Logan.

[achiruel]

It's relevant because BCC's refusal to increase density has increased the price of real-estate in the BCC area such that many people who work in BCC can't afford to live there, pushing them into urban sprawl areas like this.

Go look at Newstead, West End, Toowong and Coorparoo, and tell me with a straight face that BCC is 'refusing to increase density'. You are never going to reduce the cost of land as land is a finite resource. You can't produce a second Toowong because there is no second Toowong. BCC is doing the best it can with the land & space it has to provide more dense housing.

Big fricking deal. What about the over 100 other suburbs that they persist in having only single-family dwellings?

The City of Brisbane has about a third of population density of the entire Sydney Metro area. Sure, Sydney has sprawl too, but on a per-capita basis it is nowhere near as bad as Brisbane/SEQ, and a large part of the reason is the policies adopted by BCC to restrict density increases.

Flagstone is a state government PDA, and is a development disaster precisely because it is so isolated from the rest of the urban form and without employment opportunities and shops like Springfield.

And if there were affordable housing elsewhere, people wouldn't live there, and it wouldn't be an issue.

[#Metro]

I don't accept the 'land is limited' argument.

It is a lazy argument. Land is inefficiently used in this country.

Two blocks next to each other. One supports 1 family, the other three.

Is one block bigger than the other? No. One is a single family home, the other a triplex.

What there is a shortage of is land with permissive zoning.

I cannot see reasons why a home must not be a duplex or townhouse. Banning them is poor public policy.

[timh]

I don't accept the 'land is limited' argument.

It is a lazy argument. Land is inefficiently used in this country.

Two blocks next to each other. One supports 1 family, the other three.

Is one block bigger than the other? No. One is a single family home, the other a triplex.

What there is a shortage of is land with permissive zoning.

I cannot see reasons why a home must not be a duplex or townhouse. Banning them is poor public policy.

I think quite frankly if BCC had their way without having to worry about public opinion, there would be a lot more infill development. From what I've seen, it's not council's choice to limit density, it's residents. It would be political suicide for council to zone more areas higher density in some circumstances. I think you underestimate the power and sheer number of NIMBYs who hate high density residential outside the CBD. Everything I've seen and every BCC counselor I've spoken to on the matter is very supportive of higher density, but they can't just zone away, coz they'll be pitchforked out of office.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[#Metro]

A duplex, or even jacking up your Queenslander and building underneath is not high density.

You could argue that is not even medium density.

It's low density.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

20th October 2019

Flagstone and Ripley TransLink bus services need to be 7 days a week ...

RAIL Back On Track welcomes the news that the Flagstone will have a TransLink bus service ( the 535 bus ) from the 18th November 2019. We understand that the major cost of the service provision has been provided by developers in the area.  This is similar to the 531 bus that now connects Ripley to Yamanto and Springfield Central, service cost being principally supported by a developer.

Both the new 535 Flagstone to Browns Plains, and the 531 bus Yamanto - Ripley - Springfield Central only operate on weekdays and have 2 hour service gaps during the day.  We call for the State to provide the necessary extra funding to allow these services to operate 7 days a week at a frequency no less than hourly.

Inner Brisbane has high frequency bus services 7 days a week, we think it is not unreasonable for outer regions to have at least a low frequency bus service 7 days a week.  Public transport patronage in SEQ has not kept up with population increases.  It has collapsed in terms of trips/capita over the past decade (1).  To get people on public transport, it must be accessible, frequent as commensurate with location (no less than an hour out of peak) and relatively affordable. We are now a 7 day a week society.  Public transport services need to match this cultural shift.  Many people at Ripley and Flagstone no doubt work weekends at the major shopping complexes and so forth. They need to be able to use public transport on weekends in many cases to access their employment.

The 531 bus connects at Yamanto with the frequent 515 bus that operates 7 days a week, and with the rail at Springfield Central that operates 7 days a week.  The 535 bus will connect to the Browns Plains bus station that has bus services 7 days a week.

It is therefore in the communities best interests that both the 531 and 535 bus services be upgraded to 7 days a week services, with out of peak frequency improvements.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Reference:

1.  SEQ Annual Patronage FY 09/10 to 18/19 - all modes
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=13731.0

Timetables

Bus 531: Springfield Central to Yamanto via Ripley
https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/190129-531.pdf

Bus 535: Flagstone to Browns Plains
https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/191118-535.PDF

[achiruel]

I wonder if this bus route will be subject to a lot of late running?

Apparently, it takes exactly 44 minutes from Flagstone to Browns Plains, regardless of whether you're leaving at 6:28 am (arr. 7:12 am) or 7:20 pm (arr. 8:04 pm).

Oddly, the outbound pm peak services have a couple of minutes added to their times (ex Browns Plains at 4:22, 5:22, 5:59 and 6:29 take 46 minutes). I have to say, I'm a little suprised about the 6:29pm bus, I thought most of the traffic would've died down by then.

Is there no traffic congestion on Middle Rd during am peak?

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1185685084063465472

[techblitz]

that inbound timetable is all over the place......how do you go from a 2 hour gap between 3 and 5pm to 30-40 minute gaps between 6/7.30pm?? Why not just even it out.......4pm is usually a busy period for any bus.....schoolkids staying back late after school or hanging out at the shopping center after school.....plenty of retail/office workers also finish around 4pm......parents or workers will simply drive if there is no bus around 4pm..

a more even 535 frequency would have been...

2.16 3.16 4.16 5.13 6.13 7.13

yes still hourly but far better than a two hourly gap....

[AnonymouslyBad]

^ Easy: putting on a 4:16pm service would cost more money. Probably, buying another bus.

It's clear this is a "one-bus" operation for most of the day (you can even see the driver's breaks in the timetable). In peak and shoulder peak, it's a cobbling together of whatever's available from PRT's existing fleet, or in other words, not much. With school services, etc., I doubt there's any buses sitting around at 4pm.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/1186159705959223296

[#Metro]

Will Flagstone have a business district? Or is everyone just expected to commute 50 km to Brisbane for work and back??

[verbatim9]

Will Flagstone have a business district? Or is everyone just expected to commute 50 km to Brisbane for work and back??

Apparently a mixed use Central area. Offices, retail and high density residential.

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 22nd October 2019 page 19

A step in the right direction

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/1190154008519958528

[SurfRail]

"If this meeting was held on a Saturday after the bus starts running, could I catch the bus to it?"

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ/status/1194751460359069697