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Author Topic: SEQ Busway expansion  (Read 1574 times)

Online ozbob

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SEQ Busway expansion
« on: April 22, 2019, 08:42:52 AM »
Couriermail --> Brisbane Mayor Adrian Schrinner urges Premier Palaszczuk to prioritise public transport plan

Quote
LORD Mayor Adrian Schrinner has demanded that the Palaszczuk Government get serious about building Brisbane’s busway network that would mirror much of the tramway system ripped out 50 years ago.

Cr Schrinner, who recently replaced Graham Quirk, said Brisbane and the surrounding regions were growing fast, but the State Government had no long-term public transport infrastructure plan.

“The State Government first highlighted the need for a 75km network of busways in 1997, however, more than 20 years later only one-third of this busway network has been constructed,” Cr Schrinner told The Courier-Mail.

The Southeast Busway, from the city to Springwood, which was engineered to be retrofitted for light rail, has been a runaway success since it opened in the early-2000s, going on to become the highest-frequency segregated busway route in the world.

However, the Eastern Busway to Capalaba and the Northern Busway to Bracken Ridge have been stalled for a decade after the inner-city stretches of both were completed. Both busways would service routes prone to peak-hour gridlock that won’t ­benefit from the Palaszczuk Government’s $5.4 billion Cross River Rail.

Former transport minister Paul Lucas, who now chairs the CRR authority, described the Eastern Busway as a necessity in 2006.

However, nothing has been done since progress stalled at Coorparoo in 2011, with the Palaszczuk Government looking at stopgap solutions such as bus lanes and intersection upgrades.

The Department of Transport and Main Roads website states that the routes of both busways were “currently being revised” and further construction was “subject to funding and government priorities”.

Brisbane’s prodigious tramway network went north to Chermside and east to Belmont before being shut down in 1969.

Council’s Brisbane Metro system, which includes a fleet of 25m-long vehicles, will use the existing busway network from 2023.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey confirmed that no ­timetable existed to complete the busway and it would take a partnership across all three levels of government to build them.
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Online ozbob

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 08:48:18 AM »
" No timetable existed " is the usual refrain from the tired bureaucracy and Governments ...

 :bi

The present mob struggle with fairly straightforward network reform, all door boarding, fixing up years out of date timetables, giving punters a chance of making bus/rail and rail/bus connections.   

What hope for busway expansion?   :ttp:

« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 08:55:24 AM by ozbob »
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Online ozbob

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 08:58:42 AM »
https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1120099439140454401
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Offline Old Northern Road

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2019, 10:19:26 AM »
The fact that the Southeast Busway reached capacity within a decade shows it was a complete failure not a success. It obviously should have been rail

Offline #Metro

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2019, 12:11:41 PM »

The Brisbane Metro introduction is an excellent opportunity to do the whole of system bus network reform. At least now there is a "reason" to "have" to do it.

And this needs to be worked out *before* the Metro vehicles hit the busways.
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Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2019, 12:57:19 PM »
Brisbane Metro should hopefully do a lot to address both your concerns, metro and Old Northern Road, in terms of both capacity increases to make it more like rail, and wider network reform.

I do really think expanded Busway infrastructure should be made a priority, especially if it's going to run Brisbane Metro services. The demand is there. I'm glad Schrinner and BCC is behind this. It really sucks to see the Queensland government making the same old excuses though (ie crying poor).

As a side note I think they shot themselves in the foot a bit by not building the busway extension to Springwood at the same time as they're doing all the M1/M3 merge upgrades at Eight mile/Springwood. I feel like if they built it all at once if would be cheaper rather than going back and redoing it later.

Offline #Metro

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2019, 09:42:24 PM »

Something needs to be done about the Western Suburbs into Indooroopilly. Could look at rail option or busway.
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Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2019, 10:46:07 PM »

Something needs to be done about the Western Suburbs into Indooroopilly. Could look at rail option or busway.

Council wants the Metro to go to Kenmore, but details are very vague. The only reference I have to go by is this diagram from a Courier Mail article.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/future-seq/brisbanes-mega-20b-metro-network/news-story/acaeb5b7678045ca91d75e4f268c21d6

PS. I would much prefer expanding the busway from UQ Lakes to Indooroopilly as per my future network map ;)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mne8a44uihxgst0/Future%20Rail%20Map.pdf?dl=0

Offline verbatim9

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2019, 11:16:44 PM »

Something needs to be done about the Western Suburbs into Indooroopilly. Could look at rail option or busway.

Council wants the Metro to go to Kenmore, but details are very vague. The only reference I have to go by is this diagram from a Courier Mail article.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/future-seq/brisbanes-mega-20b-metro-network/news-story/acaeb5b7678045ca91d75e4f268c21d6

PS. I would much prefer expanding the busway from UQ Lakes to Indooroopilly as per my future network map ;)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mne8a44uihxgst0/Future%20Rail%20Map.pdf?dl=0
Mass Transit segregated corridor - City, Cultural Centre Station, West End, UQ, St Lucia, Indooroopilly Station, Indooroopilly SC, Indooroopilly West, Chapel Hill, Kenmore Central, Kenmore Village.

Offline James

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 10:08:08 PM »
The fact that the Southeast Busway reached capacity within a decade shows it was a complete failure not a success. It obviously should have been rail.

This is a very interesting point. If you think back to 2000 - the rail and bus networks weren't integrated (aside from Railbuses in the outer suburbs and on the coasts) in terms of fares and the only 'frequent' part of the network was from Roma St to Corinda, which had trains running every 15 minutes during the weekday interpeak only.

Would the SE Busway have succeeded as a railway line running every half an hour? Probably not. The busway has proven that frequency and decent feeder services are what make a service successful.

Something needs to be done about the Western Suburbs into Indooroopilly. Could look at rail option or busway.

The Western Suburbs has a grade-separated transit corridor already, it is called the Ipswich / Springfield line. Buses should be feeding into that, and the station integrated with that, before we even look at pouring even more concrete at the cost of a few billion. The money is better off spent extending the busways out to Capalaba or Aspley.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline verbatim9

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 10:32:06 PM »
The fact that the Southeast Busway reached capacity within a decade shows it was a complete failure not a success. It obviously should have been rail.

This is a very interesting point. If you think back to 2000 - the rail and bus networks weren't integrated (aside from Railbuses in the outer suburbs and on the coasts) in terms of fares and the only 'frequent' part of the network was from Roma St to Corinda, which had trains running every 15 minutes during the weekday interpeak only.

Would the SE Busway have succeeded as a railway line running every half an hour? Probably not. The busway has proven that frequency and decent feeder services are what make a service successful.

Something needs to be done about the Western Suburbs into Indooroopilly. Could look at rail option or busway.

The Western Suburbs has a grade-separated transit corridor already, it is called the Ipswich / Springfield line. Buses should be feeding into that, and the station integrated with that, before we even look at pouring even more concrete at the cost of a few billion. The money is better off spent extending the busways out to Capalaba or Aspley.
It would of been good if Briz Tram got up and running. Would of had Trams down to Eight Mile Plains, down Mains road to Sunnybank as well as to West end and UQ, North to Newstead and Chermside by now and maybe out East. It would of gained traction very quickly.

But I wonder if the BUZ network would of been sacrificed?

Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 10:40:00 PM »

The Western Suburbs has a grade-separated transit corridor already, it is called the Ipswich / Springfield line. Buses should be feeding into that, and the station integrated with that, before we even look at pouring even more concrete at the cost of a few billion. The money is better off spent extending the busways out to Capalaba or Aspley.

Finishing the existing planned busways to Bracken Ridge / Capalaba / Springwood should definitely be an immediate priority. Not to mention building the missing link. These routes (especially the BUZ services on the SE Busway) are some of the most successful public transport routes in the state. It's a no brainer.

Online ozbob

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2019, 01:28:21 AM »
Couriermail --> Opinion: Brisbane’s stalled busways must be completed to avert crisis

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GROWTH in southeast Queensland has long been both a benefit and curse.

These population surges create jobs and wealth for the state’s economy and enrich the region, but also bring extra demand for services and infrastructure.

When growth peaked during the Beattie government years, the region was plagued with problems.

There was a health crisis, a water crisis and an electricity crisis in a short period of time as the administration repeatedly failed to keep pace with population.

However, the era also saw the construction of many game-changing pieces of infrastructure that residents greatly benefit from today.

One of those is the South East Busway, which snakes alongside the M1 from the city to Eight Mile Plains, and is thought to be the most heavily trafficked, segregated busway in the world.

It has got motorists out of their cars and into public transport in droves during the working week, and ferries thousands of fans to game days at the Gabba and Suncorp Stadium on weekends.

The busway has been such a success that it has negated the need to add extra lanes to the northern end of the M1.

However, a lesson learnt the hard way during the Beattie government years – ie, the need to properly plan and prioritise projects – seems to be slowly slipping from memory.

Two great examples are the Eastern and Northern busways, which have remained stalled for years. Both were part of an ambitious plan to build 75km of segregated busways servicing 65 stations across Brisbane. They were borne out of the 1997 Southeast Queensland Integrated Regional Transport Plan. The busway would have mirrored the main spines of the tram network that ran through the city until 1969.

The Beattie and Bligh governments did the heavy lifting to build the inner-city stretches of the busways. Yet the Eastern Busway, which was supposed to shadow Old Cleveland Rd all the way to Capalaba, has been stalled at Coorparoo since 2011.

The Northern Busway has been stranded at Kedron since 2012, well short of its final destination at Bracken Ridge.

New Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner insisted this week that the Palaszczuk Government needed to get serious about building the rest of the busways.

“The State Government has estimated an extra 1300 people will move to Brisbane every month for the next 22 years. However, plans to balance that with appropriate public transport infrastructure continues to be shortsighted,” he says.

Schrinner points out that building the busways would allow council’s Brisbane Metro vehicles into areas of the city’s east and north that are not well serviced by heavy rail.

Congestion along the busway routes shows what people think of their current public transport services.

In the years since busway building ground to a halt, average speeds during the evening peak along Old Cleveland Rd have dropped from 42.5km/h to 33km/h. On Gympie Rd, it’s just 29km/h.


Transport Minister Mark Bailey insists the state is interested in building the busways, but can’t afford to do it on its own.

“We’re ready to discuss them with the Lord Mayor if there is a genuine commitment from council to partner with the State and Federal Governments,” he says.

However, the Palaszczuk Government has been playing this same sad song every time it’s asked about significant infrastructure projects of late.

Some of this can be blamed on the recalcitrance of the Federal Coalition, which forced the state to fully fund the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail.

Yet, in the years since Labor was re-elected, there has been nothing done to identify the busway routes, resume the corridor or conduct a business case to calculate costs. Instead, the Government is proposing bus lanes.

The Newman government was worse. It sold off the old Coorparoo Myer Centre site that had been resumed for a future major bus station.

The problem here is bigger than just the busways.

The Palaszczuk Government’s ShapingSEQ blueprint identified 17 “priority region-shaping” projects two years ago, but has done little to advance those that it is responsible for, other than the Cross River Rail.

This bodes badly for masterplanned satellite suburbs where 70,000 dwellings are expected to be built over the next two decades. This includes new areas like Flagstone where a passenger rail line is planned.

However, failure to advance vital public transport links in existing suburbs will be more problematic as density increases.

A decade ago, the Northern and Eastern busways were costed at $5.5 billion, much the same as the Cross River Rail. The price tag would have grown considerably since.

It now looks like a crisis will be needed to finally get these busways built.
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Online techblitz

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2019, 03:48:38 AM »
Quote
The State Government has estimated an extra 1300 people will move to Brisbane every month for the next 22 years
gee how convenient.....only quoting the 'moving to Brisbane' figure which is only the interstate migration part of our population growth.....add in net overseas migration and natural increase(births) and the real population growth figure for Brisbane was:

Quote
The two most populated
LGAs also grew by the
greatest number of
people in 2017–18:
• Brisbane grew by
22,940 persons
• Gold Coast grew by
15,630 persons.

http://www.qgso.qld.gov.au/products/reports/pop-growth-highlights-trends-qld/pop-growth-highlights-trends-qld-2019-edn.pdf
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 03:55:17 AM by techblitz »

Online ozbob

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2019, 05:39:09 AM »
The cost of extending the busways is prohibitively expensive.

Some of these journos do need to get up to speed.  QLD Brisbane Transit Ways was evaluated by IA in 2013  https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/QLD-Brisbane-Transit-Ways.aspx

These transitways can be done with a view to extending the bi-artics.  This and proper bus network reform is the best we can hope for in reality.

 :fp:

Days of wine and roses are over! 

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Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2019, 07:08:42 AM »
The cost of extending the busways is prohibitively expensive.

Some of these journos do need to get up to speed.  QLD Brisbane Transit Ways was evaluated by IA in 2013  https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/QLD-Brisbane-Transit-Ways.aspx

These transitways can be done with a view to extending the bi-artics.  This and proper bus network reform is the best we can hope for in reality.

 :fp:

Days of wine and roses are over! 



The transit ways plan is such a cop out though. It's half arsed and won't be nearly the same quality of service as a proper grade separated busway. I understand it's expensive, but it's worth it in the long term. I really think we should be pushing to keep the existing Busway plans on the table.

I'd be ok if rhe TransitWays plan was just a stopgap solution, and they promised the busways would still be built at some point in the future. They shouldn't however be a replacement.

Online ozbob

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2019, 07:13:17 AM »
The transit ways will be good.  Better than nothing.  Got a spare $10 billion or so ..
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Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2019, 04:33:20 PM »
How about maybe if as part of the transit ways project, they built some of the easier sections of the busway?

For instance, there is the section along Old Cleveland Road at Chandler which is built in the median, much like the GLink on the gold coast highway.

See: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Plans-for-Brisbanes-Eastern-busway-in-the-easternmost-section-propose-running-in-the_fig16_254609874

There's also a similar median section designed for the northern busway between Chermside-Aspley

See p6: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwneqfqbg9sydi4/document.pdf?dl=0

Those would not be anywhere near as expensive as the tunneled sections. I would be pleased if these sections were built as part of the transit ways project, with planning for the tunneled sections planned for the longer term

Offline James

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2019, 09:48:08 AM »
The transit ways will be good.  Better than nothing.  Got a spare $10 billion or so ..

Agree - as long as the transitways are done well (ie remove on-street parking and replace with 24/7 bus lanes in as many places as possible), combined with bus priority at signal, it will be almost as effective as Class A ROW. Better off with high-quality class B ROW at the cost of a few hundred million, than having to wait a decade for the funding to build a busway.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Online techblitz

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2019, 09:51:36 AM »
Quote
Got a spare $10 billion or so ..
we could have had at least 90 billion extra...

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/staggering-90-billion-lost-in-resources-tax-20180305-p4z2uv.html
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/what-australia-could-have-learnt-from-norway-sovereign-wealth/7797560

this snippet gets me

Quote
The Labor government did try to introduce a super-profits tax in 2010, which treasury sources said could have raised $100 billion over a decade. This income was not earmarked for a sovereign wealth fund, but would at least have delivered more of the profit to the nation, rather than to the mostly foreign-owned mining corporations.

However, the design of the tax was overly complex and its hasty introduction allowed the mining companies to ambush the government. In what must be one of the most comprehensive policy defeats since Federation, the miners knocked off the prime minister and then killed the tax, thanks in part to an advertising blitz costing a mere $22 million.
the irony there being those mining companies would have claimed on the advertising costs  :fp: :fp:

Australia has missed its window of opportunity........we could/should have had a lot more infrastructure built right now to handle our higher than average 'human capital' growth...

Nope.....instead we are looking more and more like America.......when we should have been looking more and more like QATAR or Norway.




Online ozbob

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2019, 11:22:39 AM »
The transit ways will be good.  Better than nothing.  Got a spare $10 billion or so ..

Agree - as long as the transitways are done well (ie remove on-street parking and replace with 24/7 bus lanes in as many places as possible), combined with bus priority at signal, it will be almost as effective as Class A ROW. Better off with high-quality class B ROW at the cost of a few hundred million, than having to wait a decade for the funding to build a busway.

 :-t  the reality ..
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Offline AnonymouslyBad

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2019, 08:22:44 PM »
The cost of expanding the busways might be high, but the reality is that it will need to happen someday - and it only gets more expensive with time. This is why the 1997 plan had the foresight to put all the busways on the table *before* they were strictly needed.

There will never be a train to Carindale or to Chermside, ever. Nor will it ever be time competitive to jump between modes in these areas. It's a stupid failure of urban planning that we've ended up in this situation, but that's just how it is.

The South East Busway was not particularly expensive. The inner city busways were always going to be expensive, but they're now completed. As far as I can tell there's only two reasons the rest of the busways are "expensive":
  • They're hugely over-engineered now. Look at the monstrosity that is Stones Corner for example.
  • There's an absolute refusal to do anything that might take away from the capacity of traffic lanes or reduce the number of traffic lanes.
(And number 2 feeds into number 1, and on and on it goes.)

If I remember right - the northern and eastern busways *were* always intended as something closer to class B, or at least, they'd still be subject to traffic lights. They were effectively to be new lanes in the median strips. The small section of northern busway that's finished (around Lutwyche) pretty perfectly demonstrates how it's all gone wrong. The only requirement to finish the busways, and finish them affordably, is some political fortitude.

My two cents :)

Offline achiruel

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2019, 05:48:41 AM »
The absolutely stupid decision that I think has ever been made regarding the busway network is not to build the Rochedale-Springwood section concurrently with the M1/M3 merge upgrade.

WHY???  :fp: :frs: :steam: :yikes:

Offline James

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2019, 04:56:26 PM »
The absolutely stupid decision that I think has ever been made regarding the busway network is not to build the Rochedale-Springwood section concurrently with the M1/M3 merge upgrade.

WHY???  :fp: :frs: :steam: :yikes:

I believe the link to Springwood is going to get built all in one go as part of all the other upgrades (four lanes in each direction down to Loganlea Road).

Building it as far as Underwood Rd, but no further, would be quite a stranded investment with little benefit. As long as it actually gets built soon, all is well.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2019, 04:59:51 PM »
The absolutely stupid decision that I think has ever been made regarding the busway network is not to build the Rochedale-Springwood section concurrently with the M1/M3 merge upgrade.

WHY???  :fp: :frs: :steam: :yikes:

I believe the link to Springwood is going to get built all in one go as part of all the other upgrades (four lanes in each direction down to Loganlea Road).

Building it as far as Underwood Rd, but no further, would be quite a stranded investment with little benefit. As long as it actually gets built soon, all is well.

I'm with Achiruel on this one. It would have been extremely easy and cheap to extend from where it currently ends at Priestdale road to the new onramp at Underwood road. They're already realigning School Road to do the Highway upgrade, it would have been so easy just to chuck two extra lanes of bitumen with a wall down the half a klick or so of school road there. Missed opportunity

Offline timh

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2019, 09:01:57 AM »
Surprised there isn't as much talk of this in the media, but we now have confirmed funding and a construction timeline for the extension of the busway to Springwood.

It's included in the plans for the widening of the M1 from Eight Mile Plains to Daisy Hill. Here's a YouTube video from the TMR website which gives a project timeline and a very rough alignment map (nothing we didn't know already though)


Offline verbatim9

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2019, 02:27:33 PM »
Surprised there isn't as much talk of this in the media, but we now have confirmed funding and a construction timeline for the extension of the busway to Springwood.

It's included in the plans for the widening of the M1 from Eight Mile Plains to Daisy Hill. Here's a YouTube video from the TMR website which gives a project timeline and a very rough alignment map (nothing we didn't know already though)


^^It will be in the media when final designs are released and first sod is turned for the project.  Then again when the project is completed.

Offline AnonymouslyBad

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Re: SEQ Busway expansion
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2019, 12:47:24 AM »
Surprised there isn't as much talk of this in the media, but we now have confirmed funding and a construction timeline for the extension of the busway to Springwood.

Probably because it was supposed to be completed 10 years ago, so not very newsworthy anymore.
I still somewhere have a letterbox drop pamphlet from the mid-2000s which folds out to the detailed design of the busway to Springwood (and T2 lanes to Loganholme no less).
That part of the region sees the busway extension as a total ghost project, it's been announced over and over and over again only to quietly get buried as road projects jump up the queue.

 

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