TransLink Smart card the Go Card - what's going on?

[ozbob]

Article in Quest Community newspaper  Southern Star  Wednesday 28 Nov seems to raise some doubt on roll out this year?

Article above in Southern Star may be found here -->

http://paper.questnews.com.au/QST_TSS/tss004.pdf


Herewith text of article:

Ticket tussle not smart
By Belinda Seeney

LOGAN buses will not accept Ten Trip Saver tickets after December 31 despite the State Government?s inability to guarantee its new smart card system will be in place by 2008.

TransLink began phasing out the tickets, which offer commuters 10 discounted bus trips, on Clarks Logan City Bus Service from September 29.

Drivers no longer sell the tickets. Commuters are only able to buy them from Hyperdome and Springwood bus terminals.
They will only be accepted on Clarks Logan City buses unit December 31.  However, Brisbane City Council?s Ten Trip Saver tickets will remain in used until mid-2008.
Transport Minister John Mickel said this was because the private bus company?s tickets were not compatible with the smart card integrated ticketing system planned for South-East Queensland.

Responding to a question in parliament from Member for Waterford Evan Moorhead, Mr Mickel said Logan commuters could still access discounted tickets.
?Regular travellers can also purchase weekly tickets on board Logan City buses for the same price as a 10-trip ticket,? he said.
A spokesman for Mr Mickel said the government was ?still hopeful? the new system would be in place before Christmas but could not give any assurances.
A Translink spokesman also said the authority was ?working towards? having smart card ticketing in place by year?s end but said the option to extend the cut-off date for Logan Ten Trip Saver tickets was always open if it was delayed.
?That?s something we?d have to have a look at, at the time,? the spokesman said.

Southern Star
Wednesday Nov 28 2007 page 4

[Derwan]

At first I thought the December 31 roll-out date was so that the Government could say that the system was "delivered in 2007".

Now I'm wondering if it was negotiated with Cubic after all the issues that they must roll out the system by the end of 2007 or they'd risk being in breach of their contract.

If neither of these are the case, December 31 is a rather weird date to "launch" the new system.

We know that it's going to be "phased in" anyway, so we won't all go live on 31 December.  We don't know which services or lines will "go live" on the launch date or how long the phasing in will take.  Perhaps it will be another year while they iron out bugs that become evident as more people use the system.

We're only a month away and we aren't able to order cards yet.  They should be accepting orders and sending cards BEFORE the launch date so people can actually USE the system ON the launch date.  (What's the point of launching it if no one has the cards to use it?) 

How chaotic will it be if they start accepting orders on the day they go live!!  Everyone will want their cards straight away!  If people could order their cards now, they won't mind if they take a few weeks to arrive because the cards can't be used yet anyway.

Hopefully the system will be great once it's up and running..... the implementation leaves a lot to be desired though.

[bladesplace]

I think the Sunshine Coast will be activated first. In effect, it's already active, albeit only with a limited number of users. It also basically covers all TransLink zones - from 1 to 23, while having a smaller population range than, say, the Ipswich or Caboolture lines.

I heard on the Grapevine that Doomben/Pinkenba/Myrtletown will be next on the activation list, because nearly all journeys on this line are multi-modal.

Cheers

Blade

[Otto]

E.g.  You live Zone 10 where a one-way ticket to the city is $6.70.  On Monday you do a zone 1 trip during lunch time.  (You have up to 60 minutes to transfer so a return trip would be considered one trip.) 

Not quite..
Yes, you do have 60 minutes to transfer to continue a journey... and No, if you catch a bus to go to "lunch" and then return on another bus within the 60 minutes ( regardless of route number ), and disembark at the originating stop even if it's across the road from your origin, you will be charged a second single fare . The SC system will recognise this using its GPS calculations.
That will however be 2 more trips counted towards the 6 needed before the 50% discount kicks in..

[Otto]

On the topic of the fine for forgetting to touch off, if you live in a zone where the one-way ticket is greater than the fine, you might as well "forget" to touch-off every day.

Not a good idea.. If you "forget" to touch off, then after the 3rd time, your card will be disabled. This will be an automatic action. You will then need to call translink to 'please explain' to enable your card again.
If you genuinly forget to touch off, phone translink to arrange an adjustment to your account ASAP.

The tag on charges (at commencement of a journey) will be set to $3 on buses and $5 on trains.

[Otto]

The Dec 31 launch is starting to look a little 'shakey', allthough it is still hoped to be acheived.

There is to be a large media campaign prior to the rollout .. They are running out of time for the Dec 31 launch.

Just my thoughts now, The BT ten trippers will continue to be used til mid 2008, so I'm guessing a new SC product will be released around that time..

[Derwan]

Not quite..
Yes, you do have 60 minutes to transfer to continue a journey... and No, if you catch a bus to go to "lunch" and then return on another bus within the 60 minutes ( regardless of route number ), and disembark at the originating stop even if it's across the road from your origin, you will be charged a second single fare . The SC system will recognise this using its GPS calculations.
That will however be 2 more trips counted towards the 6 needed before the 50% discount kicks in..

Very interesting!  I originally had it as 2 trips in my scenario and then read that you had up to 60 minutes to transfer so assumed it would be counted as 1.

It's interesting because at the moment if you bought a single, it'd last you 2 hours whether you just went somewhere or came back as well within the 2 hours.  But then with the current system you wouldn't be buying another ticket to go to "lunch" because it'd be "free" (part of your daily or weekly).

[Derwan]

Not a good idea.. If you "forget" to touch off, then after the 3rd time, your card will be disabled. This will be an automatic action. You will then need to call translink to 'please explain' to enable your card again.

Ah... didn't read that bit on the website.

[Derwan]

The Boondall devices have been turned on.  I took photos but they're really no different to every other one.  They just say "Boondall".

One of the units has a faulty display - you can just see bits and pieces of words.  I took a photo of it too but my mobile's camera isn't good and you can't see anything on the display at all in the photo.

There are only two devices on the entrance that goes to the Entertainment Centre.  This is likely to cause some congestion for the larger events.  It'd be nice if they could have temporary devices in place when there are events at the Entertainment Centre.

[Derwan]

The SC system will recognise this using its GPS calculations.

This is something that interested me when my friend (who has a friend in TransLink) told me that the smartcard devices in buses rely on GPS to determine which zone they are in.

Anyone who has a GPS navigation system knows that they don't work in tunnels.  So what will happen in all the bus tunnels?

[ozbob]

Hi Derwan,

I think the bus drivers have to manually enter the location into the system when the bus is in a radio shadow area etc.  This is just a matter of scrolling down the screen as the last stop would be showing in the screen I believe.  But the major underground bus stations might have some local relay system or something.  One of the bus people will know for sure.

Cheers
Ozbob

[Otto]

I beleive the newest software version now has the GPS coordinates set for the QSBS at the entry. Next time you travel on a bus into the QSBS, you will see the smart card readers turn on just before entering. Once inside, the GPS signals are lost and the SC readers will remain on. Only problem now is when the trip is changed to the next outbound service, the SC readers will need to be opened manually by the driver.

[ozbob]

Front page article tonights mX (Brisbane Dec 4) casts doubt on a roll out of the card this year.
Maybe answers later this week.



Article now online click here!

Smart card won't run on time

BRISBANE'S long-delayed smart card system will not be fully operational by the end of the year as promised, it was revealed today.

The rollout of the smart card system, already more than three years late, is likely to pass the deadline it was given by former transport minister Paul Lucas in July, which was since confirmed by current Transport Minister John Mickel.

In Parliament in July Mr Lucas said the system would be fully rolled out by 2007 in the manner in which it is fully designed to do.

Last month Mickel said he was working closely with Cubic, the company awarded the smart card contract, to ensure it met its end-of-year deadline.

But today, a spokesman for Mr Mickel said the rollout of the new system would start by the end of the year, but it was not likely to be fully operational by December 31.

Mr Mickel was meeting TransLink today to discuss the terms and details of the rollout, the spokesman said.

"The minister wants to know what is happening and whether we will start rolling it out by the end of the year," he said.

"All indications given by Cubic is that yes it will be possible."

A spokesman for TransLink said it was likely the new system would be switched on by the end of the year.

Most of the technology for the system, including the swipe-on, swipeoff stations, had been installed at all Citytrain stations.

All Brisbane City Council buses had been fitted with the new machines and 90 per cent of Brisbanes CityCats were ready to take the new smart cards.

But shadow transport minister Tim Nicholls was sceptical the systems rollout would make deadline, given a lack of information about the new system.

"The end of the year is three weeks away and we still haven't had the rollout of an information program, there has been no advertising telling people how it will work," he said.

Brisbane's public transport chairwoman Victoria Newton said the main concern for commuters was that the system worked before it was rolled out.

"That's why getting it right before it's rolled out is so important," she said.

[Derwan]

A spokesman for TransLink said it was likely the new system would be switched on by the end of the year.

They're probably right!  We've seen all the machines "switched on" at stations.

Just a pity we can't get the cards yet.   

[ozbob]

Courier Mail Journalist Terry Sweetman highlights issues with transport and the smartcard.
C-M  Dec 7.

Click here!

All aboard to nowhere

[Otto]

Have received advice from Translink on friday advising that as of Wed 5th Dec, additional customers will commence being issued with branded smartcards to use across the translink network.

Smartcards can be used at QR citytrain stations Except for Banoon, Fruitgrove, Sunnybank, Kuraby, Coopers Plains, Altandi, Runcorn, Indooroopilly and Grovely stations at this time.

Smartcards can be used on all B.T. , Veolia, Hornibrook and Logan bus services and also on B.T. Ferries / CityCats.. Other bus operators are yet to come online.

I think this is the last stage of the trial as no word yet when the general public can purchase Smartcards.

[Derwan]

Have received advice from Translink on friday advising that as of Wed 5th Dec, additional customers will commence being issued with branded smartcards to use across the translink network.

Who can get them?  How do they get them?  I want one!!!

(My questions are rhetoric and used to emphasise the point that no information has been provided by TransLink..... AGAIN.)

Is TransLink randomly picking people and saying (in a sly shifty voice with eyeballs scanning for onlookers), "Hey!  Want a smart card?"

[ozbob]

LOL

I think this must be a final test phase or something.  Pick me too TL!!

There was a rumour that media release might have been put out yesterday, but they must have got cold feet.
Maybe this week.

Clearly the general public is not looking good to be able to use the card by the 31st Dec deadline, as often touted by the 'management'.  Thanks Otto for your comments.  Nothing coming forward officially.

[Otto]

Have received advice from Translink on friday advising that as of Wed 5th Dec, additional customers will commence being issued with branded smartcards to use across the translink network.

Who can get them?  How do they get them?  I want one!!!

(My questions are rhetoric and used to emphasise the point that no information has been provided by TransLink..... AGAIN.)

Is TransLink randomly picking people and saying (in a sly shifty voice with eyeballs scanning for onlookers), "Hey!  Want a smart card?"

I understand that the people now receiving Smart Cards were chosen long ago when TL called for volanteers for the final stage of testing.

[Derwan]

TL called for volanteers for the final stage of testing.

They did??  When?  I'm sure Bob would've been onto it if they did.

The website still reflects the original pilot information.

If they "called for volunteers", it certainly wasn't widespread.

[Otto]

TL called for volanteers for the final stage of testing.

They did??  When?  I'm sure Bob would've been onto it if they did.

The website still reflects the original pilot information.

If they "called for volunteers", it certainly wasn't widespread.

I only knew about that via internal newsletter update..

[ozbob]

Further media release:

Media Release 9 December 2007

SEQ:  Translink Smartcard, a  late-card?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport has called for a public statement as to what is actually happening with the Translink Smartcard.

Robert Dow said:

?The Translink Smartcard ticketing will offer advantages to commuters once it is rolled out.  There appears to be a lot of confusion at present with various rumours circulating that the card is actually in wide use for some further trial participants, but not for the general public.

?The public has been constantly informed that the card would be available by the end of 2007.  The lack of information and publicity suggests that this might not be the case.  The Translink Smart Card Pilot web site is still dated 21 May 2007 (Reference 1).

?The commuter public of SEQ is entitled to know what is going on! We call on Minister Mickel and Translink to explain the present situation with the card. After all it is the public that is funding this massive expenditure,? said Robert Dow, spokesman for RAIL Back On Track.

Reference:

1. http://www.translink.com.au/qt/translin.nsf/index/smart_main  accessed 9 Dec 2007.

Contact:

Robert  Dow


Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track
http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Today's Sunday Mail (9th Dec) has the following short article (below) on page 36.

It is unacceptable that the public is not properly informed other than tiny pieces hidden away in the inner recesses of the local paper.  It is clearly time the Minister and Translink became commited to informed communication for the public.  The Smartcard is still a PR disaster.  Time to lift your game Minister and Translink.

Sunday Mail 9 Dec 2007 p. 36

Go-ahead for smart card

It's go for southeast Queensland's public transport smart card.
Five years after first signalling plans for a smart ticket system, the State Government will today partially roll out its Go Card for rail and bus travel.
A pilot program began in Redcliffe in July and on the Sunshine Coast in April 2006 with 1200 commuters trying the paperless, electronic ticketing product.

The same participants will be sent the Go Card this week before it becomes available for public use on the Sunshine Coast and in Caboolture, Redcliffe and Pine Rivers from next month.

[ozbob]

So much for a roll out for general use ...

The article is incorrect, the first ministerial statement re smart card was 1998.

The Ministerial Statement (May 1998)  that suggested amongst other things ...

"leading to fully integrated ticketing across all of south-east Queensland-based public transport on smartcard technology, by July 2001."

http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=6605

[Derwan]

Hmmm... so it sounds like the branding is going to be "Go Card".  (I think GE might have something to say about that.  They have a product called "Go Mastercard".)

The same areas that have the current pilot will be the first to be able to obtain the card.... "NEXT month".  (I bet they ask for ID to make sure they live in the area!  Damn it!!)

Why was this information "released" by the Sunday Mail and not directly by a statement from the Minister or TransLink?  And as Bob mentioned, why is it buried way down on page 36?

I'll tell you why.  The Go Card is NOT being rolled out yet.  As Otto suggested, the pilot is being expanded for use by more people in the same area.  The clever wording of the statement released to the Sunday Mail makes it sound like a roll-out - in a vein attempt to satisfy the public.  If TransLink or the Government call this a "roll-out", they will be sadly mistaken.

Looks like it will still be some time to come before we see a proper roll-out.  (I'll gladly eat my hat if proven wrong.)

[ozbob]

Here it is, just released  ....

===============================================

Minister for Transport, Trade, Employment and Industrial Relations
The Honourable John Mickel
09/12/2007

smart card on the go

go card will be the public face of TransLink's smart card ticketing product, Minister for Transport, Trade, Employment and Industrial Relations John Mickel revealed today.

"go card will be available soon to commuters in South East Queensland as a new paperless, electronic ticketing product," Minister Mickel said.

"We've had a lot of knockers saying it would never happen, well here it comes.

"When I met Cubic earlier this year, they reassured me the system would be ready by the end of the year as per their contract with TransLink.

"The first group of public transport users to receive the new go cards will be our pilot participants in Redcliffe and on the Sunshine Coast who will be sent their new go cards next week.

"Their feedback has been absolutely critical to this project and I am very pleased we are able to recognise their contribution by making them the first users of the go card.

"Feedback from the pilot has led to a number of important changes to the go card system.

"These changes have ranged from adjustments to elements of the pricing policy through to making the audible tone louder when users touch on or off.

"These suggestions have helped make go card an even better product."

Over 1,200 cards were issued to pilot participants in Redcliffe and on the Sunshine Coast. The pilot began in Redcliffe in July 2006 and was expanded to the Sunshine Coast in April 2007.

"Redcliffe and the Sunshine Coast were chosen as the areas for the pilot because of the interactions between bus and rail services in those two areas," Minister Mickel said.

"Surveys of our pilot participants found that almost 80% rated their satisfaction with the system as good or excellent and 84% said they would use the card in the future and recommend it to others."

Minister Mickel said the pilot participants would continue to test the system using their new go cards ahead of a progressive release to the general public in the New Year.

"The system is now being fine tuned to be ready by the end of 2007," Minister Mickel said.

"I have said all along I wanted to be sure the smart card system would meet the needs of public transport users before it is released and that is what we will be doing.

"go card will be progressively made available region by region to the general public from early in the New Year.

"go cards will be available for use by the general public on the Sunshine Coast, Caboolture, Redcliffe and Pine Rivers from January next year.

"The Brisbane area will follow in February with the Gold Coast to follow after that pending the resolution of some cross border bus issues."

Minister Mickel said he was very pleased with the progress that was being made to establish a network of agents for go card.

"The TransLink call centre is also now set up to process go card transactions and to assist new card users with any questions they may have about the new system.

"I would like to reassure public transport users once again that TransLink integrated paper tickets will continue to be available for use across the network.

"go card is another option we will be offering to public transport users to provide them with even more choice and convenience when using public transport in South East Queensland.

"The go card frequent user scheme will reward everyday travellers by providing a 50% discount on all travel after a card user has made six journeys in seven days, Monday to Sunday.

"This is the next phase in the plan that began with the establishment of TransLink and the integration of public transport ticketing across South East Queensland three and a half years ago."

For more information on the smart card project go to www.translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30.


December 9, 2007

==========================================================

[ozbob]

A welcome statement.

No indication however that fare options acceptable to low use and high use users will be forthcoming.

I will be surprised if the time lines suggested by the Ministers statement actually are followed if past predictions are any guide.  The roll out has failed to met the deadlines.

[Derwan]

A welcome statement.

Yes indeed!  *Applauds*

No indication however that fare options acceptable to low use and high use users will be forthcoming.

I still fail to see why irregular users should receive any kind of discount as is basically amounts to reducing the price across the board.  Perhaps a product with a discount (e.g. 20%) applying after 4 trips for part-timers, but that should be the extent of it.

I will be surprised if the time lines suggested by the Ministers statement actually are followed if past predictions are any guide.  The roll out has failed to met the deadlines.

That's right!  I'm not ready to eat my hat just yet!

[ozbob]

The name 'Go Card' is widely used around the world.  Particulary as Go (City) Card, eg. Go Boston? Card.
Many other examples just 'google'.

There is TransLink and a Go card in British Columbia too 
http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transportation_Services/Fares_Passes/default.asp

A competition for a name amongst Brisbane Commuters generally would have generated local interest and support.

[Derwan]

So far it's more of a Stop Card than a Go Card!   

[ozbob]

Unless there are further equitable fare structures, most people will once they realise the cost increase with the 'frequent user' pricing revert back to the paper tickets.

If you do multiple daily trips or travel greater than 10 trips per week, the paper monthly/weekly are much better options than the scheme so far announced.

The uptake will be poor.  It is essential that decent fare structures for all a put in place fast.
See --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=294.0

Regards
Ozbob

[ozbob]

Courier Mail Dec 10  click here!

Travel smartcard not ready

SOUTHEAST Queensland commuters face months of confusion after the State Government conceded it cannot introduce its new smartcard system simultaneously across the public transport network.
In an admission the system is still dogged by concerns over technology flaws, the Government yesterday announced the so-called "go cards" would only begin in some areas from next month while the introduction timetable for others remains a mystery.

The staged delivery over several months in the new year means some train and bus commuters will be able to use the cards on certain trips while other passengers won't be able to access the technology at all.

It is the latest stumble in the long-running saga of the smartcard which is now at least two years overdue despite numerous commitments to deliver it earlier.

Transport Minister John Mickel yesterday said the system's technology was being "fine tuned" to be ready by the end of this year with more extensive testing being conducted by pilot participants.

"I have said all along I wanted to be sure the smartcard system would meet the needs of public transport users before it is released and that is what we will be doing," he said.

Mr Mickel's comments come almost a year after former transport minister Paul Lucas also said "fine-tuning" was being conducted to iron out issues with the system.

Coalition transport spokesman Tim Nicholls labelled the staged delivery a "Clayton's rollout".

"I think it is symptomatic of a Government that wants to say they have started rolling it out when they know that it still doesn't work," he said.

Mr Nicholls said having the smartcards in use in limited areas would create chaos for commuters who would be able to use it for some trips but not others.

The rollout of the cards will begin from next month when commuters in the Sunshine Coast, Caboolture, Redcliffe and Pine Rivers gain access.

However, Brisbane commuters will not be able to use the smartcards until February while there is still no start date for the Gold Coast because of "cross border bus issues".

Smartcards will work in a similar way to debit cards, with commuters able to buy the cards with a $10 refundable deposit and top up an account when needed.

Commuters will swipe their cards on readers installed in buses and at train stations.

Fares will be calculated and subtracted from the card when passengers swipe their cards at the completion of their journey.

Those who fail to swipe at the end of a journey will be hit with a "fixed fare".

Commuters who opt to use the new smartcards will get a 50 per cent discount on all fares for the remainder of each week after taking six journeys.

While the popular 10-trip saver tickets for buses are being phased out, paper tickets will continue to be available.

[ozbob]

I just listened to Mr Mickel Transport Minister explain the situation with the Go Card on 612 ABC Brisbane interviewed by Spencer Howson.  Thanks for the explanations, but there was no firm commitment to roll out for the masses.

The next phase is really an extension of pilot to continue the fine tuning.

It is essential that more fare options are made available.

Thanks to 612 ABC Brisbane and Mr Mickel.

Regards
Ozbob

[ozbob]

Media Release 10 December 2007

SEQ:  Go Card! Translink Smart Card Options needed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport has welcomed Transport Minister Mickel?s statement of the 9th December  that has clarified some aspects of the Go Card roll out. There is however, a requirement for more fare options to be introduced on the Go Card from roll out to encourage uptake. Transport Minister Mickel has previously outlined the Go Card frequent traveller discount and bonus.  This is a good option for some, but is only cost neutral for people travelling 10 trips per week. What is needed is an occasional trip option (See reference 1) and a high use option based on weekly and/or monthly fares.

Robert Dow said:

?RAIL Back On Track has received feedback that clearly indicates that unless there are further fare options the commuter uptake of the Translink Go Card will be poor. This will then negate the potential benefits of increased efficiency in terms of faster loading of buses and river transport, and reduced direct ticket sales and cash handling.

?An occasional trip option would mimic the present Ten Trip Fare Saver ticketing.  There would be no time limit and fares could be charged at a flat rate less 20% as for the present ten trippers.

?Another option would be to have pre-purchase of travel at weekly or monthly blocks.  This could then entitle the holder to unrestricted travel in the zones purchased.  It would be pay as you go until the respective weekly or monthly fare cap is reached, and at which point travel would be free in their zones for the remainder of the week or month as the case may be.  This would be very beneficial to students and workers who need to do multiple trips during the day and would also allow economical travel on all days of the week.

?If the uptake of the Go Card is at a high level there are many benefits in terms of accurate data collection as to passenger loadings on various services and will facilitate improvements as well as the overall efficiency gains.

?There is really only one opportunity to get the initial roll out process right and encourage maximum uptake of Go Card ticketing!

?It is essential that all Translink commuters can become Go Card enabled in a cost neutral manner, otherwise they will continue to use paper ticketing with increased costs and consequent reduced efficiency of our public transport systems,? said Robert Dow, spokesman for RAIL Back On Track.

Reference:

1.    http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=285.0

Contact:

Robert  Dow

Administration
admin@backontrack.org RAIL Back On Track
http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Comment by Zoiks from http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=336.msg1222#msg1222

I am wondering why the government and cubic can get away with giving us a out of date, late and lackluster smartcard. The issue first arose in 1998 and was promised to us by mid 2001. Its now 6.5 years after that and we still dont have it. The people that have been trialing it have been reporting issues left right and center but they are hardly ever followed up and and its very rare to get any feedback. The machines are very slow and unresponsive, the gates are slow, the bus GPS system has many bugs as does the new bus ticketing machines, the train stations are not designed to handle the number of passengers through the gates at peak hour and the ticketing options are downright pathetic. The slow roll out is a face saver, but in reality it is just an expanded trial because I dont think anyone expects the rollout to go smoothly. How come the smart state did not take the smart option and use a preexisting smart card system (WA). The rollout would have been smoother and the systems would have been compatible. Cubic very obviously lied when it said that it had a flexible state of the art system that would be in use quickly because of its plug and play nature. Its also making excuses when it and the gov say it has had to overcome some huge technical problems. Hell WA would have had to have had the same issues, as would London and Hong Kong. I must remind you that Hong Kong developed and rolled out its system in a much larger and more used network in under 2 years.

[ozbob]

Thanks for your comments Zoiks.  I have received other feedback from pilot participants with similar concerns.
On the News Com blog today on the C-M article more information on issues coming forward too (see --> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/comments/0,23836,22896654-3102,00.html ).

Cheers
Ozbob

[Zoiks]

Just as a follow up, I had a look at the Cubic website.

The system truly is plug and play. All the equipment on the web page is almost identical to what we are getting sans the TL logo.
So serious WTF has taken them so long?
http://www.cubic.com/cts/sysdiagram.htm

For interest, here are the spec sheets of the equipment I have seen deployed already(from http://www.cubic.com/cts/datasheets.htm#RefSheets):

• Bus driver control unit: http://www.cubic.com/cts/Publications/DataSheets/Ltr/Driver%20Control%20Unit%205000.pdf
• Rail Station Validator: http://www.cubic.com/cts/Publications/DataSheets/Ltr/Station%20Validator%206100.pdf
• Rail Station Gates: http://www.cubic.com/cts/Publications/DataSheets/Ltr/Universal%20Gate%202000.pdf
• The new ticket machines (ours are touch though - which has been demonstrated in another model so its not new tech): http://www.cubic.com/cts/Publications/DataSheets/Ltr/Universal%20Vendor%201000.pdf

There are a few different variants of the swipe pads for the bus's. Im not sure what we are getting.


Im both mystified and mortified at why it is taking them so long to implement this system. With this stuff im positive they could have hit the mid 2001 date if they put in any sort of effort.

[ozbob]

Thanks again Zoiks, you have confirmed much of what RAIL Back On Track has been projecting.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark  Bananaland?

Best wishes
Ozbob

[JohnI]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading this discussion for quite a while, thanks to Ozbob for hosting it - very interesting. 

Also been reading what Derwan has been saying, and I agree mostly with what you say, but I disagree with you on the issue of daily discounts:

I still fail to see why irregular users should receive any kind of discount as is basically amounts to reducing the price across the board.  Perhaps a product with a discount (e.g. 20%) applying after 4 trips for part-timers, but that should be the extent of it.

It isn't reducing the price across the board. People who pay daily, still pay the full amount.
People who pay ahead of time, as is currently the case for 10-trips, weeklies, etc., get a discount which is only fair.
In fact, irregular users have paid further ahead than regular users. ( i.e. their benefit is even more delayed).
Another way to see it, is that the Transport authorities have had their money for longer before it's used.

The reason that everyone using the Smart Card should get a discount is:
- it's an incentive for EVERYONE to get the card,
- they've had to pay up-front for the credit on the card,
- on buses especially, it's a plain nuisance to wait for people to pay the driver,
- at train stations, it will reduce the queue length for daily, weekly & monthly tickets.

People who have the card will be:
- reducing queues (inconvenience to others),
- reducing waiting times (i.e. bus trips), and
- saving Transport staff time (wages).

Derwan, you seem like someone who has their life under control, but a lot of people live day-to-day, and if there is no incentive, why should they pay up-front to use the Smart Card.

When I use the buses, there are a lot of people who don't care if others have to wait while they pay the driver (even though 10 trip-savers are readily available from Newsagents). If the cost becomes the same for a daily ticket & the Smart Card, I can see greater peak-hour delays for buses as more people opt out of paying up-front for absolutely no incentive.
Personally, I won't be using the Smart-Card under the current scheme; though I may get a card if it's free on the roll-out, but will cost something later.

I think that everyone should get a 20% discount on each trip for paying up-front, and then they should get weekly, monthly, etc. free trips depending on their use.

Regards,

JohnI

[ozbob]

Welcome John!

Thanks for your comments. Many people are just not aware of the implications at this time, so we continue to alert commuters to the impacts.  It could be a huge success if there was a realistic fare structure with discounts.

Regards
Ozbob