Melbourne Suburban Rail Loop

[#Metro]

Expert modeling? Who was the expert?

Remember that time an engineering firm- was it ARUP? - got behind ripping up the Cleveland line and putting light rail on it for some ridiculously low cost. Load of nonsense it was. *Expert* nonsense.

I'm even more concerned with these fantastical claims of 130 km/hr trains in $50 BN tunnels. How did they work that out with no idea of station location, curves, and spacing?

[ozbob]

I love the bit that has the trams running down the river ...

Has there ever been so much bullsh%t?  Oh wait ...

[#Metro]

Engineering firms should reject such requests, or at least place a negative response in the report.

[Gazza]

. How did they work that out with no idea of station location, curves, and spacing?

Rules of thumb. If it's approx 13 stations over 50km, so that's similar to the Joondalup Line with the B Series trains doing 130.

As for curves, normally they are determined after you have ascertained what sort of running speed you want.
Eg, you want to run trains at 130, so you shape the curves between stations to meet this standard.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TimnaJacks/status/1034710964812242945

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Thirty years? Experts say rail loop could be built in half the time

Crossrail, a 118 kilometre rail line through London – 21 kilometres of it in underground tunnels – is due to open in December, 11 years after work began.

The Channel Tunnel, a 50 kilometre rail tunnel beneath the English Channel linking Britain with northern France was dug in six years.

And the Gotthard Base Tunnel, a 60-kilometre rail tunnel carved through the Swiss Alps took 17 years to complete.

So why will it take 28 years for a project of a similar scale to be bored beneath suburban Melbourne?

On Tuesday, the Andrews government announced that if it regains power in November's state election, it would build a 90 kilometre orbital rail line.

The $50 billion rail line – "the biggest public transport project in Australian history" – would be mostly underground, linking every major line from Cheltenham to Werribee.

The announcement came three months before the election, although the project itself would take many decades – until 2050 – to complete.

But engineers speaking to The Age suggested that the line, which would include five new stations in public transport-poor areas including Doncaster and at Monash Clayton, could be delivered in about half the projected time, with many suggesting 15 years was possible.

Some ventured 10 years.

''Based on overseas experience, it may be possible to build a project like this within 15 years,'' said Engineers Australia's Victorian division president Alesha Printz.

But doing it more quickly would make it more expensive, with Ms Printz saying completing the project in 15 years would see a "cost premium to deliver under fast-tracked methods and contracts''.

AECOM's group director of civil infrastructure Mark McManamny said the government could ''accelerate'' the timeline ''if the growth in our economy and our population demands that''.

''If they really wanted to push the envelope, you could potentially halve the time of the delivery. But there would be a number of challenges faced in that timeframe, particularly given the committed projects already in the pipeline.''

''The government has to be really cognisant of the industry's ability to respond to that level of construction in such a short term.''

GTA transport consultant Will Fooks, who worked on Crossrail for Transport for London between 2007 and 2011, said a 15-year timeline was achievable but given the scope of the project, speeding up the planning ''would not be prudent''.

But even if the government wanted to build it faster, would they have the skills and manpower?

There has been a near quarter growth over the past 12 months in engineering vacancies in Victoria.

Infrastructure insiders say tunnelling expertise is scarce and firms are increasingly looking overseas to find skilled workers.

The speed at which the project can be delivered also depends on the availability of clay, sand and stone, with the raw materials industries warning of unprecedented demand with multiple transport and construction projects now underway.

Former Labor planning minister Justin Madden said he was "enthusiastic about the project, but would like to see it before 2050."

"Population increases might again grow faster than we anticipated," said Mr Madden, the Cities leader at Arup.

Further questions remain about how exactly the rail proposal would be funded.

The government has stated that it would be leaning on the private sector for support, in addition to the federal government.

Josh Sgro, partner at law firm White & Case, who advised Rail Projects Victoria in contractual negotiations with consortiums delivering the Metro Tunnel works, said he expected ''big elements of it to be privately financed''.

''Developers could put in money [in return for] for the rights to develop above the station at some of these hubs,'' he said.

Given the government plans to build the rail line in stages, it was likely that the line would be divided into different packages, with each package having a unique contractual arrangement.

The government might consider private public partnerships, where a private operator is paid for building and running the services, over a 25- to 30-year period, he said.

Deciding on a timeline always came down to ''a trade-off between cost and time'', he said.

Questioned about the project's timeline, a government spokeswoman said: ''We haven't wasted a minute to deliver the road and rail upgrades Victoria needs – and if re-elected we will get on with this project that will transform our public transport network.''

[#Metro]

Strategic Assessment document is up.

Observation: Proposal was done outside of the department of transport.

Suburban Rail Loop Strategic Assessment
https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/325572/Suburban-Rail-Loop-Strategic-Assessment.pdf

[Gazza]

Even if the whole thing is $50b, thats not to say that you wouldn't get benefit from doing it in stages.

The proposal is a loop because thats what it needs to be to keep everyone happy, in reality I think the Eastern section is most important, and then beyond that it only needs to go as far as the airport.

For the west, the layout of the RRL and the Airport line more or less acts like a radial anyway, and you could build something like the Y link in Sydney, and run a Wyndham Vale to Airport Service to finish that half of the arc.

[BrizCommuter]

This is a joke isn't it?
Oh well, at least Brisbane can still aspire to half-hourly peak services on Fridays!

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Heed the ghosts of Melbourne's railway lines past, says historian

A railway historian says today's politicians would be wise to learn the lessons of the past when building the 90 kilometre, $50 billion suburban rail loop.

Victoria is scattered with remnants of railways that were going to solve our public transport problems and are now defunct, and with plans for proposed lines that were never built.

Historian David Beardsell says a classic case of the former was the Outer Circle Line, which operated, mostly in parts, along 20 kilometres from Oakleigh to Fairfield from 1891 to 1943.

Built partly to try and attract new homes that didn't eventuate, part of its failure was due to the fact that it was never directly linked either to the city or to Gippsland, as intended.

''Its only purpose was travel between the stations on it.''

Dr Beardsell said the key to the success of the suburban rail loop announced this week could be that higher purpose — providing the public with connections between different lines.

He said an interconnecting railway could work – going round the whole of Melbourne giving access from one railway to another, letting people move around Melbourne by train, rather than car.

But it needs to be properly evaluated. ''It seems like a reasonable proposal, but the costs will be horrific,'' he said.

''But it has some pluses about it, because of the way Melborne's spreading so rapidly and we have such gridlock.''

He said ''closed railways'' like the Outer Circle ''weren't a bigger picture thing, they were just branch lines''.

Today, much of the Outer Circle route is a bicycle path.

So too  is the route of the long-defunct Inner Circle Line. It ran, in various incarnations, through Parkville, Carlton North, Fitzroy and Collingwood from 1888 to 1948 for passengers and until 1981 for goods.

Today, the North Carlton station building and a North Fitzroy electrical substation are among the line's few remnants.

Mr Beardsell said the Inner Circle failed due to the many other, more direct city-bound public transport options in the area, and the rise of the motor car.

Among other long-dead ''ghost railways'' are the 2.4km Kew railway line, a branch off the Lilydale line, which ran from Hawthorn to Kew from 1887 to 1957.

Frank Kinnersley, secretary of Rail Trails Australia, said Victoria had hundreds of failed rail lines, including the 40km Lilydale to Warburton line, which used to carry farm produce, timber and passengers when it ran from 1901 to 1965, and is now a tourist trail.

Dr Beardsell said among rail lines proposed in the past but never built are the 'railway to Doncaster schemes' that have existed for 90 years, including an early proposal from Kew to Doncaster, involving a tunnel under the suburb.

They failed due to factors including high expense, steep grading and the level of tunnelling involved, he said.

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> What will happen to Melbourne Metro 2, the other planned underground rail line?


A map released by government showing the future rail network in 2051, which appears to include the Melbourne Metro 2.

It's a tiny line on a map that appears to hint at something bigger: the possibility of a third underground rail through the city by 2051.

Maps of Melbourne's future rail network released by the Andrews government showing the $50 billion suburban rail loop, include a familiar, but not-yet-existent rail line connecting the CBD and Newport.

It appears to represent Melbourne Metro 2 - an underground rail line linking Clifton Hill with Newport, via the CBD and Fishermans Bend - and viewed as a hint that, by 2051, the government expects the rail line would be built.

While the future status of Melbourne Metro 2 has not been confirmed, Premier Daniel Andrews was careful not to rule it out when asked about it last week.

"We will have more to say about investing in public transport," Mr Andrews said. "There will be more announcements between now and November 24."

A third rail line beneath the city was endorsed by Infrastructure Victoria, with chief executive Michel Masson calling on the government to start work on the project within 12 months, in an interview with The Age in July.

The cross-city rail was also backed in a key 2012 transport department plan, but the suburban rail loop was not.

Transport experts have come out in support of the suburban loop, but they are calling for clarity on the Metro 2 - the second phase of the $11 billion Melbourne Metro Tunnel, including whether the government still supported it, and when it would be delivered.

Jago Dodson, director of RMIT's Centre for Urban Research, said voters should not have to wait for the next election to find out about its status.

"It would be a great improvement to have certainty about Melbourne Metro 2," he said.

"It you identify where the rail stations will be, particularly in new precincts like Fishermans Bend, then you can design the precinct around those rail stations," he said.

The Coalition has left the door open to the suburban loop, but have also remained open to Metro 2.

"Melbourne Metro 2 addresses many of the deficiencies of our current transport system," Opposition transport spokesman David Davis said.

The Greens, who promised one month ago to build Melbourne Metro 2 if they formed government, said that the suburban loop fitted the long-term needs of the state, but the Melbourne Metro 2 should be built within the next decade.

The two rail lines are vastly different projects.

The loop orbits around the city - 90 kilometres of rail linking up to the Airport – and includes five brand stations, including in Doncaster.

The Metro 2, estimated to cost about $20 billion, would separate the Mernda from the Hurstbridge line, and separate the congested Werribee line from the Williamstown and Altona Loop, enabling more services to run in and out of the CBD from these fast-growing areas.

It would boost the number of services to the city from the west - a problem that the Mayor of Wyndham has claimed the suburban loop will not fix.

Twelve stations are being built east of the airport, compared with two in the west, where there is one railway station per 30,000 residents, below the Greater Melbourne average of one per 20,500 residents.

Rail Futures Institute president Bill Russell backed the suburban rail loop, but noted the Melbourne Metro 2 would be cheaper and faster to build. He questioned why cheaper rail technology, such as underground light rail, wasn't considered for the new loop.

A government spokeswoman said the new Parkville station was designed with provision for a future interchange with Metro 2.

The suburban loop would ease pressure on existing lines and major roads, while Metro 2 would boost capacity to central city, she said.

[#Metro]

So, north of 70 billion now when you add it up?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MelbUrbanist/status/1036438672944459776

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Rail loop sounds great, but there's just one big problem ...

The suburban rail loop is the kind of long-term infrastructure planning and investment that has been sorely lacking over the past 30 years. But more importantly, it marks an overdue shift away from a CBD-centric approach that has long threatened our city's liveability.

But if I have one quibble to make about the project it's this: current plans for the suburban rail loop do not prioritise Melbourne's west, where so much of Melbourne's growth is occurring. The west will receive fewer stations than Melbourne's east and will have to wait decades until after tunnelling under the eastern suburbs is complete.

The City of Wyndham – the municipality I serve – is an epicentre of that growth in the west. Wyndham alone will grow to nearly 500,000 people in the next 20 years. That's almost 20 per cent bigger than what Canberra is today.

But as far as public transport goes, our residents are already feeling the pinch. We have one railway station per 30,000 residents, which is well below the Greater Melbourne average of one per 20,500 residents.

Every day, tens of thousands of Wyndham and Geelong residents cram onto Werribee Line and Regional Rail Link trains or stew in traffic jams along the West Gate Freeway. The Victorian Health Indicators show Wyndham has a high proportion of people who commute two or more hours a day – and the impacts of long commutes on health and wellbeing are well documented.

Many are commuting towards the centre of town, because that's where the jobs are. The centre of town is where business and industry are concentrated – because that's where most of the infrastructure and services are concentrated.

Setting aside my reservation's regarding the project's prioritisation of the eastern suburbs, the Victorian government should be applauded for what will be Melbourne's first major non-CBD-centric public transport project in living memory. This is a fundamental step toward realising a vision of Melbourne in which everything you need – employment, education, services – is within a 20-minute walk, cycle, train ride or car trip.

This vision has long been what we have wished for Victorians – and especially for Wyndham, whose residents stand to benefit from a project like the suburban rail loop. We can become a 21st century city featuring many hyperconnected urban centres between which people and commerce can move quickly and easily.

But governments who embark on ambitious infrastructure projects are commonly confronted with fearmongering about the high cost of large infrastructure projects. While I'm under no illusions regarding the need for fiscal responsibility, such attacks are often nothing more than opportunistic efforts to whip up fear in the electorate.

In our debates about infrastructure, we tend to focus on the cost of construction, rather than the costs of inaction, which are often much, much higher. The reality is that if we don't invest heavily, we will miss a once-in-a-century chance to unlock the enormous potential of Melbourne's vast growth areas – places like Wyndham.

The average age in Wyndham's high-growth suburbs is 30 – well below the Victorian average of 37. An estimated 146,798 children will be born here over the coming 20 years.

These are diverse, vibrant communities full of young, ambitious families who will be stoking the fire of our nation's economy for the next century.

It's a well-established fact that making sure families and children are supported by infrastructure and services is a good thing for the economy and our standard of living. And it's not as though growth areas are currently failing to pay our way, either.

The Victorian government's coffers have swollen thanks to the current development boom. In 2017, an estimated $250 million worth of stamp duty was raised in Wyndham alone. And more than $80 million was raised from land tax. Add to this all the construction jobs and revenue flowing to developers and investors and we're talking about massive budgetary stimulus for Victoria.

Some seek to muddy the waters by focusing on the immigration debate. But this distracts us from the fact we have an immediate need to plan and provide infrastructure in places where people are choosing to live now and into the future. Our record of doing so has been patchy at best. Just ask anyone living in Wyndham for whom lack of provision of schools, health services, roads and public transport are a daily reality.

Furthermore, while we're (quite rightly) focusing more on long-term infrastructure planning, it's equally important not to lose sight of immediate needs of growth areas. On the transport front alone, there are urgent needs to upgrade stations, and better connect our bus services and train stations to reduce car dependency.

Peter Maynard is mayor of Wyndham City Council.

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> What Melbourne's public transport could look like by 2050, according to the experts

Melbourne does not need a $50 billion suburban train loop by 2050, says the state's key rail institute, but a cheaper orbital light rail, five new rail lines and 21 new train stations.

One week after Premier Daniel Andrews announced plans for a 90-kilometre rail loop, the Rail Futures Institute has released an alternative $100 billion vision mapping out the ways to move 8 million people around the city within the next 30 years.

The state government's current slate of big ticket transport projects were described as "mostly 'catch-up' projects that should have been constructed years ago" in the institute's report released on Friday.

"They will be unable to keep pace with Melbourne's growth."

The transport blueprint proposes a $21 billion orbital light rail service from Keysborough to Deer Park, with stops at Monash, Box Hill and Broadmeadows, following a route similar to the government's proposed suburban loop.

Instead of an underground train service, this proposal would see trams, small driverless trains, or even elongated buses use dedicated tracks on median strips, bridges or tunnels, enabling them to travel at faster speeds.

Rail Futures' president John Hearsch said this would be cheaper and faster to build than a traditional train line, and it would include more stops.

"Most of the commuters using the suburban rail loop will travel between two to three stations," said Mr Hearsch, who said underground trains were better suited to crowded services to the CBD.

Light rail would also help link up areas in the west including Tarneit, Hoppers Crossing and Williams Landing, and in the east, there would be a direct link between the CBD and Doncaster and Ringwood and Dandenong via Knox.
Five new train lines

Other ideas in the report include a $69 billion rail plan that would see five new train lines built by 2040.

This includes the Metro Tunnel (built by 2024) and the airport link (by 2027) already committed to by the Andrews government, and the Melbourne Metro 2 linking the Mernda and Werribee lines via the CBD and Fitzroy instead of Clifton Hill (by 2030).

A new rail line - dubbed the "South-East Fastline" - would link Pakenham in Melbourne's south-east and Wyndham Vale in the west, with new stations at Chadstone and Monash by 2035. The Glen Waverley line would be extended to Knox by 2039.
Five new tram routes

A $9 billion revamp of the tram network would include five new cross-CBD tram routes and 13 extensions of existing tram routes.

Alexandra Parade's median strip would be converted to a tram route between Smith and Nicholson Streets. These trams would connect Clifton Hill and Melbourne University via Grattan Street and extend to North Melbourne.

New tram routes would run for the entire stretch of Spencer Street and include options to turn into La Trobe Street.

A new tram loop line that would go up Laurrens Street and down Dryburgh Street would service the new North Melbourne station built as part of the Metro Tunnel.
21 new train stations

The metro rail network would be expanded on nearly every line by 2030 and 21 new stations built, the institute argues.

V/Line track between Deer Park and Melton would be electrified before the Metro Tunnel is finished, and track between Southern Cross and Wyndham Vale electrified by 2022 to allow, longer, faster trains on Geelong and Wyndham Vale services.

Single sections of track on the Cranbourne, Hurstbridge, Lilydale and Belgrave lines would also be duplicated by 2026.

A previous plan by the Rail Futures Institute to link airport rail to the wider V/Line network rather than just the metropolitan network was adopted by government when it chose its current airport link route.

Proposed suburban rail loop


Rail Futures Institute's alternative

New light rail planned
What the Rail Futures Institute has proposed

[ozbob]

Herald Sun --> Rail Futures Institute calls for planning on Metro 2, but not a suburban loop, in 30-year outlook

AN influential rail lobby group has talked down the Andrews Government's plan for a 90km underground ­suburban rail loop, calling for a raft of other projects to be prioritised above that one.

The Rail Futures Institute will release its Plan for Melbourne strategy on Friday, detailing major investments over the next 30 years including Melbourne Metro 2 — a fast line for the southeastern suburbs — and a major upgrade of the city's tram network.

But the policy document has left out the much-touted underground train line proposal in favour of cheaper connections to Melbourne's outer employment and ­education hubs.

Last month, the Andrews Government announced that if re-elected, it would put $300 million towards investigating a suburban rail loop to transform the network.

But Rail Futures Institute president John Hearsch said: "Firstly, the government's proposal will be immensely expensive. And ­secondly, we don't think it needs to be a heavy rail solution.

"None of the individual destinations on this suburban rail loop will be anything on the scale of the CBD, so you don't need the same level of heavy rail capacity.

"We believe the same connections could be served with medium-capacity transit that may well include light rail and emerging technology. While these alternatives are expensive, they average about one-third of the cost of heavy rail."

Mr Hearsch said governments also needed to focus on urgent transport priorities such as a Melbourne Metro 2.

"We're a bit worried since the government has announced this (suburban rail) scheme that some people might think there is no need for a second tunnel," he said.

"Metro 2 really needs to follow right on the back of the present project and really needs to be planned right now. The planning involved in all of these is extensive and we're well behind where we should be."

The institute has also mapped out plans for a new rail line running from Southern Cross station to Pakenham that would service Chadstone and Monash.

"This second line would take a different route between Caulfield and Dandenong, ­effectively running as an ­express line," Mr Hearsch said.

"People coming in from Pakenham would save 20 minutes each way."

Other institute proposals include a massive boost to the size of Melbourne's tram fleet, with five new routes crossing the CBD.

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Suburban rail loop: Melbourne's west, north may get raw deal, says study

Commuters in Melbourne's west could get the short end of the stick under Labor's proposed $50 billion suburban rail loop, research suggests.

The massive underground suburban rail network linking every major rail line in Melbourne and the new airport rail link has been billed by the Andrews government as the "biggest public transport project in Australian history".

But while it could serve more than 195,000 commuters in Melbourne's south-east, it may benefit only about 51,000 people in the west, leading planning and economics firm SGS says.

The 90 kilometres of track would connect 10 train lines from Cheltenham in the east to Werribee in the west and is expected to take until 2050 to complete.

The project has been independently assessed by SGS Economics and Planning, which says more train stations need to be added to the rail line in the fast-growing western suburbs.

More stations are needed between Melbourne Airport and Werribee to get true value for money from the project, the economists say.

From Melbourne Airport, the proposed line would travel 34 kilometres and connect to two existing stations – Sunshine and Werribee.

The rail line linking Cheltenham and Box Hill in the east would be 10 kilometres shorter, but would include double the number of stops.

The government is planning to build six new train stations along the new track east of the CBD.

Due to the lack of stations in the west, only 51,000 people would use that section of the rail loop, the research finds.

That's about one-quarter of the 195,000 people expected to use the track in the south-eastern suburbs.

"I think the west needs more train stations and this current proposal doesn't do that. It just gives it more capacity for existing rail lines," SGS economist Terry Rawnsley said.

A key advantage of connecting Sunshine and Werribee on the loop is that it would free up rail lines from Werribee and Geelong and boost the number of services, Mr Rawnsley said.

He said building Melbourne Metro 2 – an underground rail line linking Clifton Hill, the CBD and Fishermans Bend – would also increase services on these lines, but would have the added advantage of linking to Fishermans Bend.

"Metro 2 would give you connections to Werribee, plus Newport and station access into Fishermans Bend, so there are more stations in that option," he said.

"I'm not sure what the western section is trying to do ... part of it looks like the airport link then there's a big long tunnel to Werribee.

"It is unclear if the western section presents a value-for-money solution to the transport problem faced by the west," Mr Rawnsley's report says.

Premier Daniel Andrews unveiled his rail plan on Facebook three months out from the state election, catching the transport bureaucracy by surprise.

An orbital rail link through Melbourne's middle suburbs has never been recommended in government transport planning documents.

The government plans to build the rail line in stages, and Mr Rawnsley backed a decision to build the south-eastern link between Cheltenham and Box Hill first.

But he warned the north-eastern section of rail connecting Doncaster and Broadmeadows – the longest part at nearly 35 kilometres – would be costly and difficult to build.

Tunnelling beneath Doncaster Hill and the Yarra River could prove challenging, whereas a rail link along the Eastern Freeway would have been more straightforward, he said.

Mr Rawnsley questioned why the route included stops at Fawkner and Reservoir rather than stations further south in more built-up areas, such as Coburg and Bell stations.

A government spokesperson said the initial plans released identify "potential stations" and their final location was yet to be confirmed.

"Victorians living out west will benefit from the suburban rail loop, which will create a super-hub at Sunshine connecting to new stations at Monash, La Trobe, Deakin and jobs precincts," the spokesperson said.

"The Sunshine hub will also provide a direct connection to the airport."

[ozbob]

Herald Sun --> Suburban loop could create Melbourne's second CBD

THE Monash-Clayton area could evolve into Melbourne's second CBD if the state government's suburban rail loop idea goes ahead, new analysis has shown.

The area around the university and business park had the potential and population to benefit most from the ambitious $50 billion project floated by the Andrews government, the SGS Economics and Planning report found.

There was even a case for two stations at Monash, report author Terry Rawnsley said.

The northeast section — from Box Hill to the Airport — presented engineering challenges but would have long-term benefit while doubts were cast over the value of the western section because of the proposed Airport Rail Link and a possible Metro 2.

The report split the proposed line into three parts, with the 24.5km southeast section already having a population of 195,400 people, 103,600 workers and 82,400 university students.

"The Suburban Rail Loop could reinforce the growth of what is effectively Melbourne's second CBD at the Monash National Employment and Innovation Cluster,'' report said.

The report compared the area to the Epping and Chatswood Rail Link in Sydney.

"Using this patronage ... as a very rough guide, if the South East Section of the Suburban Rail Loop was in operation today it could carry approximately 30,000-50,000 passengers each day.''

Mr Rawnsley said that number of people meant the area could cope with more than just a campus station.

"Just north of Fern Tree Gully Rd, there's a big business park, industrial area and if you dropped a station in there, that could really change the number of jobs located there,'' Mr Rawnsley said.

"What happens at the moment is the students pile off at Clayton and students queue up for the buses to get to the university.''

Many students, especially those from overseas, often considered the convenience of a nearby railway station as a deciding factor in choosing a university.

The report's enthusiasm cools for the northeast part of the project.

"The engineering works required to construct the link from Box Hill to Doncaster would be challenging and the cost of crossing the Yarra River would be very costly.''

But long term, the Latrobe precinct, Doncaster Shopping Centre and airport links would underpin the rail link's viability, the report said.

The western section — from the airport to Werribee — was of less worth, long term, Mr Rawnsley said.

"It is unclear how much additional value the western section would offer on top of the proposed Airport Rail Link or Melbourne Metro 2.

"There is a lot of tunnel required and only two station precincts (Sunshine and Werribee) to leverage off additional urban development.''

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> London calling: planning lessons for our $50-billion rail loop

Libraries, schools, aged care units or green spaces should be built above and around new train stations in Melbourne's middle suburbs as part of the $50 billion suburban loop, consultants say.

Premier Daniel Andrews wants "value capture" to help fund the 90-kilometre underground line, meaning he plans to sell the land and air rights on and around the project's 15 stations to private developers and put the profits back into the loop.

But previous attempts at developing housing and retail at suburban train stations have had limited success, drawing criticism from planners and public transport advocates.

Apartment towers planned over the railway in Windsor and Ormond have stalled due to local opposition. Store fronts at new stations in Bentleigh and McKinnon lie vacant since their opening in 2016.

Infrastructure consulting firm AECOM, which advised Transport for London on value capture for two major rail projects, said a lack of proper planning has led to these projects failing in Melbourne.

"If this is purely seen as a funding opportunity, so a plan to help fund infrastructure and doesn't go beyond that, it won't work," the firm's director of cities in Melbourne, Tim O'Loan said.

Rather than simply selling off valuable state-owned land to private developers, Mr O'Loan said the government should keep the land and take a hands-on approach to planning the station area's re-development.

The government could offer long-term leases for community services the suburb lacks, such as aged care units or open space, which could be mixed with new kinds of housing, commercial and retail spaces the area needs, Mr O'Loan said.

The government could operate the services or engage in a public–private partnership whereby a private company builds and operates the service on behalf of the government.

Evidence from the UK shows that holding onto the land provides better returns in the longer run for specific sites.

Selling it off has been found to contribute just 4-5 per cent of the infrastructure costs, Mr O'Loan said.

"You might get a quick return in the short term, but you completely relinquish control over what goes on and over the site."

The model has been adopted in London, where AECOM was a key advisor on value capture projects on the $25 billion underground through central London, CrossRail.

Over the past two years, London's transport bureaucracy has developed community services, residential and social housing along its rail tracks, while retaining ownership over the land.

Some of the structures are demountable, allowing for the tracks to be expanded in the future as demand increases.

"What they've been able to work out in London is that by holding onto their land and developing it ... they recoup a revenue stream that goes well beyond two years," Mr O'Loan said.

Sunshine station, which will be built as a major interchange for the $13 billion airport rail link with a connection to the suburban loop, will be massively overhauled.

Mr O'Loan said primary schools, child care and libraries were lacking in Sunshine, and should be included in the plan for the station area.

Townhouses and potentially apartments would also help bring more housing options to the fast-growing suburb packed with three-bedroom standalone houses, he said.

Public Transport Users Association spokesman Daniel Bowen said the government needed to re-examine its approach to developing station precincts.

The vacant spaces in south-eastern train stations beggars belief, he said.

"For these retail spaces to still be vacant more than two years after the new stations opened is utterly bewildering. Whether it's mismanagement or other factors, it does not bode well for other stations being rebuilt as part of the level crossing program."

VicTrack spokeswoman said the organisation was "always keen to discuss ideas about how transport land can be used to benefit Victorian communities and generate revenue for VicTrack to reinvest into public transport".

[ozbob]

Melbourne Age --> Hundreds of millions more to plan rail loop, but not all on board

Transport experts have questioned why it would cost as much as $600 million to plan Melbourne's proposed 90-kilometre suburban rail loop, or why the project's creation was shrouded in such secrecy.

New details have emerged of the secrecy surrounding the $50-billion project's formation, despite Labor's repeated promise to depoliticise infrastructure funding.

And at least one expert says simpler but less politically "announceable" projects would achieve more than the suburban rail loop quicker, and with less disruption.

Federal Opposition Leader Bill Shorten on Sunday promised to match state Labor's $300 million pledge towards planning the rail line.

The rail line would have up to 12 new stations, cost upwards of $50 billion to build, and carry hundreds of thousands of passengers daily when it opened.

But it would take upwards of three decades to build, leading critics to question whether the plan was released as much to help Premier Daniel Andrews' electoral fortunes this November as to improve transport in a growing city.

In Box Hill announcing the partnership with federal Labor, Mr Andrews said the $600 million pool of money would be spent on design, pre-construction and engineering work. The combined cash meant the project's 2022 start date could be brought forward, he said.

Mr Andrews would not detail exactly how the $600 million would be spent when pressed. "Obviously twice the planning, design, engineering and pre-construction funding means that'll be able to get twice as much done," he said.

While there has been much support among planners for the concept, many have questioned the extraordinary secrecy the project was conceived in.

The suburban rail loop was planned within the office of Development Victoria rather than the transport department, and was not raised in cabinet before its announcement.

Experts say some elements of the plan make sense but infrastructure priorities needed to be decided in public view.

Victoria doesn't have a long-term transport strategy, despite state legislation demanding one exist.

"Yes planning for the future is very worthwhile," said civil and traffic engineer Des Grogan. "But it must be properly considered."

Mr Grogan is an engineer with 40 years' experience in Victoria, and worked on many of the state's biggest plans over that time. He was a member of the state's expert body advising the planning minister, and worked on the East West Link panel hearings among others.

Mr Grogan said an orbital rail loop was a "thought bubble" that would "clearly not produce the best outcome for taxpayers" because many other projects would deliver more benefits.

Among them he named the "extension of the Glen Waverley train line, providing more trains, upgrading signalling, using car parking at racecourses and even running commuter trains from Flemington Racecourse and the Showgrounds train stations, along with improved bus services".

He said simpler but less politically "announceable" projects would achieve more than the suburban rail loop quicker, and with less disruption.

And he questioned the proposed cost of recent business cases put forward by the state government.

"At an average of $450 per hour, 40 people working a 40-hour week over a seven-week period would cost about $5 million," he said. This would be sufficient to complete a "competent" business case, he said.

Mr Andrews has repeatedly promised business cases on big projects costing tens of millions of dollars to produce.

Mr Grogan said the secrecy behind the suburban rail loop's conception set a terrible precedent.

Only four ministers even knew of the project's existence before it was announced: the Premier, Treasurer Tim Pallas, Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan and Special Minister of State Gavin Jennings.

Key to the project's planning was Tom Considine, now at Development Victoria but until 2016 Mr Pallas' chief of staff.

It is understood that even a high-ranking bureaucrat within the Transport Department who was away on the day of the rail line's announcement had to be contacted by their officers, who were unsure how to respond.

The Transport Department was not told of the plan because of perceptions it would not welcome a project of its massive scope, and would attempt to block its development within government.

Infrastructure Victoria – set up to take the politics out of planning for major transport projects, and reporting to Mr Jennings – was also not told.

Its $500,000-a-year chief executive Michel Masson and his board, whose expertise cost Victorians $1 million last financial year, found out about the project at the same time media did.

John Stanley, a transport planning expert at Sydney University who has advised the Andrews government, said the suburban rail loop seemed an attractive proposition, but it was also part of a "project-to-project approach".

Professor Stanley said that while a circumferential rail line was a good idea, building it when many of the suburbs it would pass through were very low density made the entire project hard to justify.

The first stage of the project, better linking Monash University by rail to Cheltenham, made excellent sense. "Does it make strategic sense to do more than that? Maybe not, but that's what has to be decided," he said.

He said the confidentiality around its planning was far from ideal.

"If you were doing it confidentially to buy up the land with the idea of value capture, sure. But all of this stuff should be decided in public view, and it should be in a transport strategy that sets out where we want to be in 30 or 40 years."

Public Transport Users Association spokesman Daniel Bowen commended the project and said it made sense to look ahead to what Melbourne might look like decades from now.

"Enabling cross city trips is something the public transport network has struggled with, and this would really help," he said. "And we need a long-term vision for what Melbourne should look like - as the city gets bigger, moving people around in cars is going to get less and less viable."

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/9NewsMelb/status/1051368044570673152

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/DanielAndrewsMP/status/1066179241518100481

[#Metro]

Typical line and map dramatisation.

For that amount of money, you could probably make Melbourne's rail network driverless.

[verbatim9]

^^Just a repost from Vic votes thread.

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=13324.msg216751.msg#216751

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MelbUrbanist/status/1102045938334326786

[ozbob]

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/suburban-rail-loop-goes-to-market-for-registrations-of-interest/

Suburban Rail Loop Goes To Market For Registrations Of Interest

Premier

13 June 2019

The Andrews Labor Government today announced the commencement of a Registration of Interest (ROI) process for local and global firms to help deliver the Suburban Rail Loop.

The start of market engagement is the next major step to make the project a reality. The ROI will help government assess which organisations have the experience and capability to be part of the biggest transport investment ever undertaken in Victoria.

The search is open to firms with a variety of capabilities including designers, engineers, rail systems providers, rail operators, rolling stock providers, investors, financiers, and architects.

The Suburban Rail Loop is a new rail network linking Melbourne's middle suburbs, with new stations connecting major railway lines from the Frankston line to the Werribee line via Melbourne Airport.

The transformational project would be the biggest transport investment undertaken in Victoria. It will change the way people move around Melbourne – enabling Victorians to get to major suburban employment, education and health precincts without having to travel in and out of the CBD.

The project will take thousands of passengers off existing rail lines and 200,000 cars off our major roads, it's anticipated to also create more than 20,000 jobs during construction.

The ROI announcement follows the commencement of an extensive stakeholder engagement process for Suburban Rail Loop, focusing on Stage One – the South East Section, between Cheltenham and Box Hill.

As detailed planning gathers pace, the Andrews Labor Government will seek input from communities, local government, peak bodies, as well as key stakeholders along the proposed corridor. We have started briefing Local Government stakeholders in the cities of Whitehorse, Monash and Kingston.

Further consultation will follow, as well as the beginning of site investigations – expected to start later this year – including ecology and geotechnical studies.  General precincts and a broad alignment have been identified for the Suburban Rail Loop, but specific station locations are yet to be finalised.

Alignment options and station locations will be considered as part of the development work and the site investigations will provide an understanding of ground conditions and environmental considerations.

All registrations of interest should be lodged at SRL-ROI@railprojects.vic.gov.au. Further information is available at www.railprojects.vic.gov.au.

Quotes attributable to Premier Daniel Andrews

"As we get on with our Suburban Transport Blitz, we're also getting on with planning the next stage of projects our growing city and state needs."

"The Suburban Rail Loop will create tens of thousands of jobs during construction and will change the way we move around Melbourne forever, slashing travel times and getting you where you need to go."

Quote attributable to Transport Infrastructure Minister Jacinta Allan

"Just like the Metro Tunnel, North East Link and vital suburban road upgrades – we're getting on with the projects that Victorians voted for and need."

[#Metro]

Business case? Where is that??

Alternatives analysis??

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/RailExpressNews/status/1154534802365865985

====

Rail Express --> Suburban Rail Loop starts next phase at Box Hill

The Victorian Government is carrying out geotechnical work on the Suburban Rail Loop project, signalling the start of extensive ground works.

The geotechnical work encompasses borehole drilling to depths of between 30-60 metres at the Box Hill site, with samples to be analysed over the next fortnight for soil and rock composition and stability. The work is intended to identify suitable locations for the underground stations.

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews and Transport Infrastructure Minister Jacinta Allan were in attendance at Box Hill to announce the next phase of the project as it moves towards its anticipated 2022 construction start date.

"We said we'd get the Suburban Rail Loop started and that's what we're doing – with geotechnical work now underway in Box Hill," Andrews said.

The $50 billion Suburban Rail Loop, part of Victoria's Big Build program, is intended to connect Melbourne's middle suburbs through an underground 90-kilometre rail link running from the Frankston line to the Werribee line via Melbourne Airport.

The project, which is planned to incorporate several new stations looping from the southeast to the northwest of the city, may not be fully completed until the 2050s. Andrews stated that the project would change the way people move around Melbourne, "slashing travel times and better connecting people with jobs, education and other vital services, wherever they live".

The expensive project received a funding blow following Labor's defeat at the federal election in May. Former Labor leader Bill Shorten promised $10 billion for the project in the event of winning the election, including $300 million in matched funding with the Victorian Government, but this failed to transpire due to his loss to Liberal leader Scott Morrison.

[ozbob]

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/new-authority-and-preferred-route-for-suburban-rail-loop/

New Authority And Preferred Route For Suburban Rail Loop

Premier

3 September 2019

The Andrews Labor Government has confirmed the preferred stage one route for the biggest transport project ever built in Victoria and a dedicated new authority to deliver it.

Premier Daniel Andrews joined Minister for Transport Infrastructure Jacinta Allan today to confirm the preferred alignment and station precinct locations from Cheltenham to Box Hill for the Suburban Rail Loop – a 90-kilometre rail ring around Melbourne's middle suburbs that will better connect people to jobs, universities, TAFE's, healthcare and each other.

The project will connect every metropolitan train line from Cheltenham to Werribee, create a rail link to the airport and build three transport super hubs at Clayton, Broadmeadows and Sunshine to connect regional passengers to the Suburban Rail Loop.

The design and delivery of the project will be led by the Suburban Rail Loop Authority. The new Authority will start its work this week and be headed by incoming Chief Executive Nick Foa, who has extensive experience in infrastructure, planning and government administration.

Mr Foa and his team will immediately begin consultation with local government, universities and other key institutions and stakeholders on options for where stations will be located in the precincts.

This consultation, along with the geotechnical work already underway, will inform the development of the Business Case. A Registration of Interest process for local and global firms has also begun to establish the best team to build the project from 2022.

The Suburban Rail Loop will cut congestion right across Melbourne's transport network and create more than 20,000 jobs during construction.

For more information or to have your say visit www.suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au.

Quotes attributable to Premier Daniel Andrews

"This dedicated new authority will ensure the biggest public transport project in our state's history becomes a reality."

"The Suburban Rail Loop will better connect Victorians to jobs, education and each other. We promised to get on with it, and that's exactly what we're doing."

Quote attributable to Minister for Transport Infrastructure Jacinta Allan

"Right now we're delivering the West Gate Tunnel, removing level crossings, upgrading suburban roads, getting on with the Metro Tunnel – the Suburban Rail Loop is the next step in the future of our transport network."

Quote attributable to Chief Executive Suburban Rail Loop Authority Nick Foa

"I'm excited to work on this once in a generation project, which will create stronger connections between suburban Melbourne, create more open spaces and provide new opportunities for business in the suburbs."

[#Metro]

I believe the projected patronage is far too high.

[ozbob]

Amazing that the business case is still not done ..

Premier @DanielAndrewsMP launches Suburban Rail Loop Authority and locks in the route. No changes to proposed design from 2018 Election. Cheltenham through Clayton all the way to Werribee. $50bn Work begins 2022. Business case coming soon. @10NewsFirstMelb #springst pic.twitter.com/hOG8JMVMEd

— Simon Love (@SimoLove) September 3, 2019

[Gazza]

Could turn out like the Paramatta Chatswood rail link. Build a little bit, then some government down the track commandeers it for another project 

[ozbob]

Guess it depends on the political trajectory from here.  It is a very ambitious project, but that was said about the LX removal work.

They are getting things done.  It makes things here in SEQ look rather timid ...

I plan on visiting Melbourne in the early new year.  I expect a lot of closures at that time as works proceed everywhere down there.

[SurfRail]

Could turn out like the Paramatta Chatswood rail link. Build a little bit, then some government down the track commandeers it for another project 

They'd be insane not to build this as standard gauge unattended operation though - it doesn't have to connect to anything else operationally apart from passenger interchange, so no reason not to use current basic international standards to keep costs down.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/DougalBeatty/status/1198379162353881088

[ozbob]

^ interesting development.  Looking like it might possibly be an automated system.

Seeking more information.

[ozbob]

Re: driverless trains "my preference is to have train drivers...but it's too early to make that call...it'll probably be decided by another Govt" @9NewsMelb

— Dougal Beatty (@DougalBeatty) November 23, 2019

[ozbob]

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/new-dedicated-trains-for-standalone-suburban-rail-loop/

New Dedicated Trains For Standalone Suburban Rail Loop

Premier

24 November 2019

The Suburban Rail Loop will be a twin-tunnel, standalone line that will fully integrate into our existing public transport network, and include a dedicated fleet of quick, high-tech trains to transform how Melbourne moves.

Marking a year since the Andrews Labor Government was re-elected, Premier Daniel Andrews joined Minister for Transport Infrastructure Jacinta Allan to announce new details of the Suburban Rail Loop, following 12 months of intensive technical, planning and design work.

The 90-kilometre rail ring will connect every major rail line from the Frankston line to the Werribee line, making it quicker and easier to get to Melbourne's major health, education and employment centres.

It will be built as a separate rail line, meaning it can use state-of-the-art systems from around the world without having to retrofit technology into the existing network – saving time and money.

Passengers will be able to easily transfer across both networks, with the same ticketing system servicing both and up to 12 new stations connecting the existing rail system with the new standalone line.

Being a dedicated line also means the design of the trains that use the line won't be constrained by the requirements of Melbourne's hundred-year-old train network.

As a result, the new trains will be four to five carriages long and faster than the existing fleet. Being smaller, means they can turn up more often, and that the platforms will be shorter – reducing the distance passengers need to walk at the station each day to get on the train.

Pre-construction work on the Stage One route from Box Hill to Cheltenham is gathering pace, with geotechnical drilling well underway. Fourteen boreholes have already been dug, with close to 100 to be drilled by mid-2020.

The information collected will help determine the final alignment and station locations for the project, and how it will be built.

Community consultation and market engagement will ramp up next year and construction on Stage One of Suburban Rail Loop is expected to begin in 2022. For more information, visit suburbanrailloop.vic.gov.au.

Quotes attributable to Premier Daniel Andrews

"A year ago Victorians voted for the Suburban Rail Loop and we haven't wasted a moment getting on with it."

"This standalone line with purpose-built trains will fully integrate into our public transport network and deliver 'turn-up-and-go' services – better connecting people to jobs, education and each other."

Quotes attributable to Minister for Transport Infrastructure Jacinta Allan

"The Suburban Rail Loop will be a dedicated line with dedicated trains – and it will change the way our city and state moves forever."

"We've removed 30 level crossings, we're building the Metro Tunnel, and we're doing the vital planning and design work for the Suburban Rail Loop."

[verbatim9]

^ interesting development.  Looking like it might possibly be an automated system.

Seeking more information.

^^No doubt that Melbourne is competing with Sydney in the Driverless and Automated train sector. Melbourne can't be left behind LoL!

[ozbob]

Herald Sun 12th January 2020

Deep into train future