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Author Topic: NGR related RTIs  (Read 1283 times)

Offline ozbob

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NGR related RTIs
« on: April 22, 2018, 07:04:16 AM »
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/About-us/Right-to-Information/Disclosure-log
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Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 07:04:53 AM »
15 February 2017     135/04793    

Correspondence between Queensland Rail CEO Helen Gluer and Director-General Neil Scales (PDF, 5.6 MB) regarding the New Generation Rollingstock Project from 1 January 2015 and 31 December 2016.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 07:05:46 AM »
25 October 2016    135/04553    

Briefing notes and memos to the Minister (PDF, 84.51 MB) regarding:
a) the recruitment of additional train drivers and guards (including for MBRL, NGR)
b) the extra services for the Redcliffe Peninsula Line (formerly the Moreton Bay Rail Link).
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Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 07:06:13 AM »
1 November 2016    135/04569    

Departmental and Ministerial Briefing Notes and attachments, reports, emails and internal correspondence (PDF, 547 KB) to and from Queensland Rail, relating to:
1. New Generation Rollingstock (NGR);
2. QR driver recruitment.
Timeframe: 01/01/2015 to 01/11/2016.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 07:07:03 AM »
5 February 2018     135/05521-MIN     

Email correspondence within the former Transport Minister Jackie Trad's office relating to Downer EDI/Downer and its potential involvement in the New Generation Rollingstock (NGR) project. Time frame for request: 1 September 2017 - 9 November 2017. (This application was made to the Minister for Transport and Main Roads)     Currently being processed.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 07:09:13 AM »
1 March 2013    135/01700    

All communication between Transport and Main Roads Director–General, Michael Caltabiano's Office and Queensland Treasury and Trade.
Part 1 (PDF, 587 KB), part 2 (PDF, 18.87 MB), part 3 (PDF, 4.47 MB), part 4 (PDF, 42.76 MB), part 5 (PDF, 16.98 MB), part 6 (PDF, 3.18 MB), part 7 (PDF, 1.41 MB), part 8 (PDF, 4.02 MB), part 9 (PDF, 4.47 MB), part 10 (PDF, 3.24 MB), part 11 (PDF, 1.51 MB)


Moving on.  This is good background this RTI file.

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/aboutus/rti/disclog/2013/13501700part1.pdf?la=en accessed 2nd April 2018

This clearly shows when DTMR took over NGR and MBRL from Queensland Rail, ~ July 2012.  Page 9.



As we now know, this was rather a sad move.  Both NGR and MBRL ran off the rails !!
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Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2018, 10:05:57 AM »
15 February 2017     135/04793    

Correspondence between Queensland Rail CEO Helen Gluer and Director-General Neil Scales (PDF, 5.6 MB) regarding the New Generation Rollingstock Project from 1 January 2015 and 31 December 2016.

Interesting reading this one.
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Offline Stillwater

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2018, 10:45:11 AM »
A very interesting set of documents.  Confirms that TMR was the lead agency and that QR had considerable difficulties with TMR over NGR delivery.  Neil Scales at the top of the tree when it comes to responsibility.

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2018, 08:58:31 PM »


Moving on.  This is good background this RTI file.

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/aboutus/rti/disclog/2013/13501700part1.pdf?la=en accessed 2nd April 2018

This clearly shows when DTMR took over NGR and MBRL from Queensland Rail, ~ July 2012.  Page 9.



As we now know, this was rather a sad move.  Both NGR and MBRL ran off the rails !!

Tbh i thought this was common knowledge. Maybe it was but not outside QR. The Newman Govt has a lot to answer for. QR had to fix the MBRL before it could even open, are now forced to run terrible trains on their network and can't recruit traincrew quickly enough because no-one wants to be a tutor anymore. Thank goodness he didn't get around to privatising the Gold Coast line and BNH-FG.

Thanks Cambell!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 09:04:11 PM by PoliticalFootball »

Offline Stillwater

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 05:44:34 PM »
A clear picture is emerging:

On July 2nd 2012, Michael Caltabiano asked this of Helen Gluer, the CEO of QR:

In respect of the NGR project … requested of HG

- a reallocation of all funding from QR to TMR
- her agreement that QR would transfer to TMR 'lead agency' arrangements.

That is when TMR took charge.

And, in respect of the Moreton Bay Railway Project, Helen Gluer wrote an email to Michael Caltabiano on May 23rd 2012 and said:

"Thank you for your email outlining your proposal to move funding and responsibility for the MBRP from QR to your department."  (This included the rail corridor works, which previously was to be delivered by QR.)

So, guess which projects were stuffed up?  NGR and Moreton Bay Rail Project.  Who was in charge?  Certainly not QR.  Who was in charge of TMR, which took over both projects?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 08:46:20 PM by Stillwater »

PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2018, 07:38:24 PM »

So, guess which projects were stuffed up?  NGR and Moreton Bay Rail Project.  Who was in charge?  Certainly not QR.  Who was in charge of TMR, which took over both projects?

This is what needs to be made public. Because I can tell you that people who work QR are getting rather tired of being blamed for others decisions.

Offline #Metro

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2018, 10:04:00 PM »
I remember that the auditor general was removed from the QR board. Another line of inquiry to look at. Coincidence?
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Offline Stillwater

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 07:39:33 AM »
Important change in QR about the time, 2012-13:

“Another change announced was the institutional restructure transferring Queensland Rail from a Government Owned Corporation to a Statutory Authority. While this does not affect our business operations or key priorities, it does represent an important step in our reform journey.”

From the QR Annual Report 2012-13.

PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 08:04:28 AM »
^^

Which ended up being overturned by the High Court.

Offline ozbob

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2018, 09:17:52 AM »
^^

Which ended up being overturned by the High Court.

What happened to have the high court involved?
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PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2018, 10:06:43 AM »
^^

Which ended up being overturned by the High Court.

What happened to have the high court involved?

Good article on it here.

https://www.afr.com/news/policy/industrial-relations/high-court-win-for-unions-rail-workers-20150408-1mggjt

Basically ruled QR can't be a stat authority because it trades as a company/have a board so it couldn't be brought under the state system.

Was just the first step towards fully privatising QR. Most people i know stood to lose 30-40k per year if it went through.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 11:56:46 AM »
^ Not quite.  QR is very much a statutory authority at the moment.  The issue was what industrial relations system applied - Newman was trying to get away from the Fair Work Act by saying it wasn't a "trading corporation" (which has a different meaning from "company" for the purposes of the law in question) and that because it was a statutory authority it was covered by the state's own system.  It's a question of form over function, but the black letter law fact remains that QR is "in house" and not a GOC.
Ride the G:

PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2018, 12:23:18 PM »
Right. Thanks for the clear up. Different story depending on who you talk to.


Offline #Metro

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2018, 04:57:51 PM »
Nothing wrong with QR being privatised provided that the model is right. Would give QR a measure of true independence against politicisation and micromanagement.
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PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2018, 09:13:09 AM »
Nothing wrong with QR being privatised provided that the model is right. Would give QR a measure of true independence against politicisation and micromanagement.

I disagree. Privatisation drives prices up and services down. Plenty of examples from around the country/world why public services like rail should be government run.

Good article hear regarding the state of affairs in Britain (article is from last year but they are still having the same issues)

https://www.citymetric.com/transport/rail-privatisation-hasn-t-worked-it-s-time-reverse-it-3613

Offline techblitz

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2018, 10:23:12 AM »
I think the railfail combined with fare increases we have endured easily nullifies the 'driving prices up and services down' if privatised argument.
Public or private.....there is still incompetence and/or greed.

PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2018, 11:25:22 AM »
I think the railfail combined with fare increases we have endured easily nullifies the 'driving prices up and services down' if privatised argument.
Public or private.....there is still incompetence and/or greed.

I agree with the last bit, but a private company is there to make money. Profit is king. How do you ensure a profit? Higher prices and/or spending down. Usually both.

Offline #Metro

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2018, 08:41:19 PM »
Quote

I disagree. Privatisation drives prices up and services down. Plenty of examples from around the country/world why public services like rail should be government run.

Good article hear regarding the state of affairs in Britain (article is from last year but they are still having the same issues)

https://www.citymetric.com/transport/rail-privatisation-hasn-t-worked-it-s-time-reverse-it-3613

^ Problems with that article include its not a fee-for-service model like we already have operating in SEQ for aeons,
but a fee for passenger model similar to what Melbourne had. A key nuance overlooked.

Quote
I agree with the last bit, but a private company is there to make money. Profit is king. How do you ensure a profit? Higher prices and/or spending down. Usually both.

Not true that catastrophe is a general outcome. e.g. - Sydney Ferries experience, Brisbane CityCat, Gold Coast Light Rail.

You have also assumed that the public option is perfectly efficient. Hasn't been demonstrated and a possibility exists that it might not be vs competitor. For example, the Strachan report details very clear inefficiencies which I am led to believe have been protected in the latest EBA (which perhaps QR was nudged to sign)

Quote
Restricting recruitment of external applicants creates four challenges:

1. For every driver that Queensland Rail recruits from guard ranks, Queensland Rail must recruit an
additional person, typically from other parts of Queensland Rail, to replace that guard. This depletes
talent across the organisation and requires Queensland Rail to undertake a further recruitment
process to fill vacated positions

2. Restricting the pool of driver applicants to current guards reduces the number of applicants from
outside Queensland Rail and limits the number of female applicants due to the demographic of
guard ranks

3. Limiting the sources of applicants reduces the competitive nature of the recruitment process and
hence the future quality of potential train crew

4. During periods of high demand for guards, guards may be withdrawn from driver schools to operate
services, hence elongating training durations.

The Commission notes that other rail operators such as Deutsche Bahn and Sydney Trains have had
significant success recruiting drivers and guards from outside their organisations, and have maintained
lower average training durations than Queensland Rail.

(Strachan Report, p 36) https://www.strachaninquiry.qld.gov.au/assets/commission-of-inquiry-report-trains-crewing-report.pdf

That internal first approach to hiring is wasteful because you have to recruit twice. A private competitor, such as Deutche Bahn,
that got rid of that approach would already be ahead of QR.

Putting Sydney ferries in private hands was a good idea, report finds
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/putting-sydney-ferries-in-private-hands-was-a-good-idea-report-finds-20160204-gmlihj.html

Quote
The transfer of the running of Sydney Ferries into private hands raised concerns when it occurred in 2012. But four years on, the private operators have received a clean bill of health.

The state's acting Auditor-General, Tony Whitfield, has found that the decision to privatise the ferries was justified, pointing to about $100 million in savings since 2012 and a good service record.

If QR's service and management offering really is The Best (TM) - put it to the test of an open and competitive tender process.
Then we will really know.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 09:55:03 PM by #Metro »
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PoliticalFootball

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Re: NGR related RTIs
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2018, 07:21:02 AM »

Quote
Restricting recruitment of external applicants creates four challenges:

1. For every driver that Queensland Rail recruits from guard ranks, Queensland Rail must recruit an
additional person, typically from other parts of Queensland Rail, to replace that guard. This depletes
talent across the organisation and requires Queensland Rail to undertake a further recruitment
process to fill vacated positions

2. Restricting the pool of driver applicants to current guards reduces the number of applicants from
outside Queensland Rail and limits the number of female applicants due to the demographic of
guard ranks

3. Limiting the sources of applicants reduces the competitive nature of the recruitment process and
hence the future quality of potential train crew

4. During periods of high demand for guards, guards may be withdrawn from driver schools to operate
services, hence elongating training durations.

The Commission notes that other rail operators such as Deutsche Bahn and Sydney Trains have had
significant success recruiting drivers and guards from outside their organisations, and have maintained
lower average training durations than Queensland Rail.

(Strachan Report, p 36) https://www.strachaninquiry.qld.gov.au/assets/commission-of-inquiry-report-trains-crewing-report.pdf

That internal first approach to hiring is wasteful because you have to recruit twice. A private competitor, such as Deutche Bahn,
that got rid of that approach would already be ahead of QR.

If QR's service and management offering really is The Best (TM) - put it to the test of an open and competitive tender process.
Then we will really know.

While I agree with a lot of what that report implies and recommends, i don't agree with hiring external drivers straight away. Guards sure, but unless you have previous rail experience from either being a guard or train maintenance you will struggle with the training. EVERY previous external driver applicant I have spoken to has said the same thing and my own personal experience gives me a decent insight.

What needs to happen is a big clear out and restructure of QR from the team leader level up. There is so much dead wood, arrogance and managers doing the same job it's rediculous. This is where the real inefficiencies reside.

 

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