Everton Hills - bus issues

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Suburb profile: Everton Hills, Brisbane

A LOCAL council has called on TransLink to stop ignoring its pleas to increase bus services in a leafy suburb northwest of Brisbane which is growing in population.

Everton Hills, which is just 10km as the crow flies from the CBD, forms part of the 'Hills District' which includes Arana Hills and Ferny Hills.

It's where homes on large acreage are carved into moderate-sized house blocks or developed into new unit and townhouse complexes.

Yet the swelling population appears to have gone unnoticed by TransLink, according to local Moreton Bay Regional Councillor Matt Constance.

Cr Constance said he has consistently made overtures to TransLink to increase the routes, frequency and hours of operation because of the swelling population within Everton Hills' and also the surrounding suburbs.

"There is an acknowledged problem with public transport and we'd love to see more," Cr Constance said.

"We've got buses running every hour into the city and they could be running every half-hour or 15 minutes or running as express services to the nearest train line."

He said the catch-22 was that TransLink, which co-ordinates southeast Queensland's public transport services, wanted demand to increase before it cranked-up supply but Cr Constance said the two needed to grow in unison.

The nearest train stations for Everton Hills residence are in neighbouring suburbs Keperra, Mitchelton and Ferny Grove.

"For people moving here, if there's not sufficient public transport, they will buy a second car and you'll never get them out of it," he said.

A TransLink spokesman said there were three all-day and two "peak-time" bus routes through Everton Hills but did not respond to questions about whether the service needed to be reviewed or improved.

Not helping the situation is that BCC buses service the suburb, which is in the Moreton Bay Regional Council.

Local Harcourts Solutions real estate agent Simon Whitehead said Everton Hills was a popular suburb for young families but the public transport was its Achilles heel.

"The public transport does let the suburb down a little bit ... the buses are a bit infrequent and can be improved," Mr Whitehead.

The 2016 ABS census showed a minor growth in dwellings and population for Everton Hills.

According to the data, the population increased from 5812 to 5938 between 2011 and 2016 and the number of dwellings rose from 2195 to 2261 for the same period.

However, more units and town houses have come on the market since the 2016 Census and even more are planned.

A neat block of 10 townhouses has hit the market in Queens Rd while approval was granted for 22 apartments in Buckland Rd which falls just short of the Bunyaville Forest Reserve.

As for the median house price it has risen, on average, about five per cent per year and sits at $566,000.

"It's still one of the more affordable suburbs within a 10km radius of the CBD," Mr Whitehead said.

"It's slightly more affordable than Everton Park (median $590,000) which is on the boundary and it's considered the little brother of Everton Park.

"Some real estate agents will market it as Everton Park when it's Everton Hills for that reason.

The residential development has been at an acceptable pace and a mini-boon for small businesses, says T-Lush Hair Design manager Tanya Lam said.

In the four years she has been stationed at the On Q shopping centre, where she employs five staff, she said her own clientele has grown and the median age of her customers was younger than ever before.

"There's a lot more mums and younger people coming through especially after the units were built at the top of Queen's Rd," Ms Lam told The Courier-Mail.

"We could do with a few more eateries and one or two retail shops but it hasn't been over populated with businesses and locals like that. We don't need major stores."

Within a few doors of the T-Lush salon is Birds & Bees cafe, which has just obtained a liquor licence.

Birds & Bees owner Shawn McAnnalley previously ran a cafe in neighbouring Mitchelton before he relocated to Everton Hills three years ago.

He believed there were similarities between the growth of Everton Hills and of Mitchelton a decade ago when it was a booming with young families and first home buyers.

"Everton Hills has changed a lot in the time we have been here. The demographic is a lot younger and there are more families and children," he said.

"I liken it to Mitchelton about 10 years ago when more families moved there but they had a train line but we have Ferny Grove.

"Families have moved here because it's semi-affordable and they get a nice yard and house and not too far from the city."

Mr McAnnalley and Ms Lam can expect more potential customers over the coming years given the large parcels of land still available in Everton Hills.

Mr Whitehead estimated there were about 100 properties sitting on juicy parcels of land that could easily be divided and developed.

"There's a fair bit of land still on small acreage in and there's a fair few subdivisions on Buckland Rd where there is still a lot more land in that area," Mr Whitehead said.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/965615933296279552

[James]

Isn't it outside BCC's boundary, hence it was essentially given lip service by BT for decades for being "outside of the boundary" and "not really Brisbane?"

Similar effects can be observed in other 'not really Brisbane' areas.

[Cazza]

"We've got buses running every hour into the city..."

"He said the catch-22 was that TransLink, which co-ordinates southeast Queensland's public transport services, wanted demand to increase before it cranked-up supply but Cr Constance said the two needed to grow in unison."

Ok. So the route that runs from Everton Hills into the city is Route 360 (Brookside to North Quay via here, there and everywhere). Having caught this route semi-regularly over the past couple of years, it does really struggle with patronage. You will commonly see it heading outbound past Newmarket smack bang in the middle of afternoon peak hour with only 10-15 people on board, most of which probably get off along Enoggera Rd.

But, it is clear to see why it has abysmal head counts on the services:
*clears throat*
-It's an all stops service;
-It takes a scenic tour through Herston and Fortitude Valley for all the commuters from the Everton district;
-It only runs hourly, and not even at all on Sundays;
-During morning peak hour it doesn't even stop at Enoggera Station (good luck if you want to get to the City 30 mins quicker by train than bus. 7am inbound bus passes station at 7:23am, arrives KGS at 8:10am. Train departs Enoggera at 7:24am, arrives Central at 7:41am.);
-During the day, outbound services once again pass by Enoggera "Interchange" (please note: Interchange was used very loosely there). It's only saving Grace is that the arvo peak hour services stop there. Lucky;
-It's city bus stop locations are completely different from any other bus heading North-West out of the city. In fact, on the outbound route, the only 300 series bus routes (excluding Routes 361,363 and 364) it shares a stop with between North Quay and the top of Queen St is Route 302 (to Pinkenba), Route 335 (to Sandgate), Route 346 (to Aspley) and Route 353 (to Chermside). If you haven't noticed, none of these actually go near it's terminus at Mitchelton, let alone Everton Hills.

So, if Translink and BCC actually wanted to improve the service in this area, they will be waiting a long time for patronge to pick up, because if I lived in Everton Hills, there is no way in hell I would be getting Route 360 to the City.

[techblitz]

It's where homes on large acreage are carved into moderate-sized house blocks or developed into new unit and townhouse complexes.

yea...and so is carseldine,bridgeman downs who have had a buz through their neighbourhood for 2+ years and the patronage is STILL crap.......everton hills is just another case where the majority of locals have a car on hand for convenience....fast forward to somewhere like inala or sunnybank where the majority can only afford/choose one mode......hence why buses get used a LOT more...

So, if Translink and BCC actually wanted to improve the service in this area, they will be waiting a long time for patronge to pick up, because if I lived in Everton Hills, there is no way in hell I would be getting Route 360 to the City.

and even if a quick rail feeder was introduced tomorrow...who would want to feed into sardine packed all-stopper trains??
Express trains from mitchy or enoggera.....well that is a different story.....people would genuinely transfer because 1: they can get a seat and 2: its quicker.

I'm going to give a little example at Kallangur. You have the 680,683,685 all meeting up around school rd.
the latter 2 go to Kallangur(and get to the rail line quicker) while the former goes to petrie....can you guess which route everyone in this area uses??
Hint: they use it because of certain express train options...and as a result the patronage is pretty much the same as pre RPL....while the other routes suffer atrocious patronage...


I can understand the councellor's frustration but he needs to make better arguments than just a handful of new apartment blocks and houses or minor pop growth.
I think the best that can be done for the area is a rework of current routes 397,396,398...or if resources can be found....start the 390 from everton hills.
re route 360.....if I was using this route in the morning peaks....I would just jump on the enoggera rd buzes or prepaids....only marginally slower than jumping on the train.

[#Metro]

The "Hills District" issue comes up in the newspapers from time to time.

There is not much density difference between Everton Hills and say, parts of The Gap (which has 15 minute BUZ).
The "there are X number of bus services in the area" is a furphy as we all know - the more bus routes in an area, the worse the
service is because resources are spread thinly. Whatever services there are barely exist on the timetable.

The main reason why services in those areas are bad IMO is because they lie just beyond the BCC boundary. That means no
BCC rates and thus no BCC subsidies for bus services. The state government does not want to get involved because there is nothing in it for them politically.Moreton Bay Regional Council could introduce a levy on properties in the hills district to pay for subsidies to increase service frequency.

A good way to improve service is to extend the 369 (half-hourly) from its Brookside terminus up Dawson Pde , along Patricks Rd and then down Gordon Rd to terminate at Ferny Grove station. If desired, further extension could occur into Upper Kedron.

So there are choices:

- Do nothing, everything stays the same
- Join BCC and get BCC levels of services (pay a bit more perhaps in rates)
- Stay with Moreton Bay regional council and pay a property levy

[HappyTrainGuy]

330 and 340 Buz were knee jerk reactions to the northern busway and the lack of buses that would actually be using it. 330 i can see (I'd rather see it have reduced night time running as it just carries cool air along Gympie Road) but the 340 i can't. It gets its patronage Chermside-City. North of Chermside its dead quiet and causes road congestion.


And remember the entire 330/331 capacity can fit on a couple trains. Trains that it directly tries to stay away from. And new housing estates that the 340 and 330 avoid because it can possibly cause a interchange to a more frequent and faster city bound peak hour service.

[techblitz]

And remember the entire 330/331 capacity can fit on a couple trains. Trains that it directly tries to stay away from. And new housing estates that the 340 and 330 avoid because it can possibly cause a interchange to a more frequent and faster city bound peak hour service.

Well with QR in its current state...its safe to say many 330/331 riders are rejoicing for NOT being fed into the sardine packed all-stoppers 

On a serious note...first priority for the area is choosing the major feeding station....I like Carseldine or Zillmere...then start feeding multiple routes into it from all directions........but ONLY on the proviso that QR integrates it into the express patterns....there needs to be genuine timesavings or else you will end up with another Kallangur...
I will add in another proviso.....that the busway goes as far as Chermside and that's it.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Plenty of capacity still available on Redcliffe and Caboolture services since Northgate-Bowen Hills became express. And Carseldine should be any future interchange stop.

Translink network review in 2013. Forget the south side. The city. Forget it all. The northside by far had the best network upgrade. Wasn't perfect but it was a massive improvement over the current network. Interchange routes were massive. Key city routes were massive. Shortfalls in the current network were addressed ie 340 buz were axed in favor of merging it into other merged routes to form a proper loop interchange route (basically 340/336/337 chermside interchange to Aspley interchange, 340 Aspley interchange to Carseldine Interchange, 335/325 Carseldine interchange to Boondall interchange, 325/new route Boondall interchange to Geebung Interchange/Chermside interchange. A route that had good redundancy because if the Shorncliffe line went out of action you'd catch the train to Geebung/Carseldine to head over to Boondall. Same with the Cabooolture line (at the time). Catch a train to Boondall and onto the loop bus or catch a buz to Chermside or Aspley to board the same loop bus. All that from one loop route created by cutting all the random scenic tour routes. It was great. I keep saying it but the northside of Brisbane finally had a great PT network. A network that was p%ssed  away. The only thing that changed was the 335 going to Sandgate and it stopping inbound at the Taigum bus interchange. Meanwhile the 338/357/359 mess is in full swing.

[techblitz]

A network that was p%ssed  away.

yep...just like the QR network.....writing this while I'm stuck at hemmant...with no alternate bus options....& just like the other day when I was stuck at petrie for 30 minutes.....

[James]

A network that was p%ssed  away.

yep...just like the QR network.....writing this while I'm stuck at hemmant...with no alternate bus options....& just like the other day when I was stuck at petrie for 30 minutes.....

If we had a functional, reliable rail network, this wouldn't be an issue. We shouldn't be designing a network to cater to QR's incompetence...

[BrizCommuter]

It's where homes on large acreage are carved into moderate-sized house blocks or developed into new unit and townhouse complexes.

yea...and so is carseldine,bridgeman downs who have had a buz through their neighbourhood for 2+ years and the patronage is STILL crap.......everton hills is just another case where the majority of locals have a car on hand for convenience....fast forward to somewhere like inala or sunnybank where the majority can only afford/choose one mode......hence why buses get used a LOT more...

So, if Translink and BCC actually wanted to improve the service in this area, they will be waiting a long time for patronge to pick up, because if I lived in Everton Hills, there is no way in hell I would be getting Route 360 to the City.

and even if a quick rail feeder was introduced tomorrow...who would want to feed into sardine packed all-stopper trains??
Express trains from mitchy or enoggera.....well that is a different story.....people would genuinely transfer because 1: they can get a seat and 2: its quicker.

I'm going to give a little example at Kallangur. You have the 680,683,685 all meeting up around school rd.
the latter 2 go to Kallangur(and get to the rail line quicker) while the former goes to petrie....can you guess which route everyone in this area uses??
Hint: they use it because of certain express train options...and as a result the patronage is pretty much the same as pre RPL....while the other routes suffer atrocious patronage...


I can understand the councellor's frustration but he needs to make better arguments than just a handful of new apartment blocks and houses or minor pop growth.
I think the best that can be done for the area is a rework of current routes 397,396,398...or if resources can be found....start the 390 from everton hills.
re route 360.....if I was using this route in the morning peaks....I would just jump on the enoggera rd buzes or prepaids....only marginally slower than jumping on the train.

Express trains are pointless on the FG line, it is only 16km long. The line is limited to 8tph (due to constraints through the network core), so running expresses would reduce the service for non-served stations and create uneven am peak frequencies. In fact, the patronage went up by around 10% after the move in Jan 2014 from a messy timetable with expresses and Mitchy starters, to an 8tph all stations service in the am peak. Shame the pm peak is uneven 6tph, but at least that might get fixed sometime in the 2020s.

[achiruel]

Express trains are pointless on the FG line, it is only 16km long. The line is limited to 8tph (due to constraints through the network core), so running expresses would reduce the service for non-served stations and create uneven am peak frequencies. In fact, the patronage went up by around 10% after the move in Jan 2014 from a messy timetable with expresses and Mitchy starters, to an 8tph all stations service in the am peak. Shame the pm peak is uneven 6tph, but at least that might get fixed sometime in the 2020s.

Surely post CRR FG will be able to have more than 8tph though due to space being freed up by no Beenleigh/GC trains using the subs through Bowen Hills-RS?
10tph should be possible, with 4tph ea Shorncliffe/Airport and 2tph Doomben = 20tph.

Anyway to keep this remotely on-topic, 360 isn't the only bus route in Everton Hills, there is also the 359, although it only runs hourly.

[BrizCommuter]

Express trains are pointless on the FG line, it is only 16km long. The line is limited to 8tph (due to constraints through the network core), so running expresses would reduce the service for non-served stations and create uneven am peak frequencies. In fact, the patronage went up by around 10% after the move in Jan 2014 from a messy timetable with expresses and Mitchy starters, to an 8tph all stations service in the am peak. Shame the pm peak is uneven 6tph, but at least that might get fixed sometime in the 2020s.

Surely post CRR FG will be able to have more than 8tph though due to space being freed up by no Beenleigh/GC trains using the subs through Bowen Hills-RS?
10tph should be possible, with 4tph ea Shorncliffe/Airport and 2tph Doomben = 20tph.

Anyway to keep this remotely on-topic, 360 isn't the only bus route in Everton Hills, there is also the 359, although it only runs hourly.

No, CRR mk3 has suboptimal line pairing with no capacity increase on the suburban tracks from the North. Even if CRR did allow an increase in FG services, expresses would still be pointless as they would quickly catch up with the train in front. Better to run high frequency all stations.

[achiruel]

Oh, I wasn't in any way suggesting to run express on FG line. Just that more services could be run. I think 10tph would be a good frequency for FG in peak, with maybe 6tph in offpeak daytime, 4tph after 7pm.

[#Metro]

^^ Would it be worth disconnecting the FG line from the QR network and making that metro?

[SurfRail]

10tph should be possible, with 4tph ea Shorncliffe/Airport and 2tph Doomben = 20tph.

The Shorncliffe line needs more than 4tph given the density around the inner stretches of the line - remember these are the only trains that will be stopping at Nundah and Toombul given the main line pair will apparently be carrying the staggeringly silly number of 30tph (most of which are a combination of fast and slow Kippa-Ring trains, hence my skepticism the number will actually be that high, but it will be 24tph or above whatever it is).  These stations need TUAG headways or as near as possible.

The operating model assumes 8tph in peak (6tph originating from Shorncliffe and 2tph originating from Northgate).  4tph is fine for the Airport, and while I would prefer 4tph for Doomben that can't happen.  So FG gets 8tph, but as long as they are evenly spaced, all 6-car trains and the higher frequency operates for longer it will still be an improvement over present circumstances.  Just not much growth room for later on.

I suspect that if Trouts Rd happens, that would create enough room to move Shorncliffe trains off the subs and onto the mains so you would get:

- Kippa-Ring fast (express Northgate to Petrie) on the mains
- Kippa-Ring slow (all stations) on the subs to Toombul, then over to the mains
- Shorncliffe (all stations) on the subs to Toombul, then over to the mains
- Subs south of Eagle Junction would be serviced by Airport and Doomben to Bowen Hills, then Ferny Grove
- Mains south of Eagle Junction would be serviced by Kippa-Ring and Shorncliffe continuing through to Darra and beyond

That introduces 8tph counterpeak all-stations on the western lines, but it creates clashes at Toombul.  You could have the Kippa-Ring all-stoppers stay on the mains to limit it to just the Shorncliffe trains clashing.

[HappyTrainGuy]

A network that was p%ssed  away.

yep...just like the QR network.....writing this while I'm stuck at hemmant...with no alternate bus options....& just like the other day when I was stuck at petrie for 30 minutes.....

If we had a functional, reliable rail network, this wouldn't be an issue. We shouldn't be designing a network to cater to QR's incompetence...

With translinks review it offered redundancy if the rail network went tits up but it also offered redundancy if the bus network went tits up. As it is now if there is a cbd delay/Gympie Road/old northern road etc delay all the stops across the Northside get affected. Which then affects the inbound routes due to late running. It's not just the rail network. It's the bus network too. It's just sh%t. Buses don't feed trains. Buses do scenic tour routes. Interchange times are out of whack. Too many buses here and not enough buses there. Buses have random routes (eg 338/357/359). Running hours and frequencies are just dreadful. People complain about QR having a 2tph frequency but what about the 1bph frequency or depending where you are 0.5bph? Then you have the rail network running at a better frequency than the bus network and nothing connects to it so you drive. The bus network needs a redesign to get more people on to it and then in turn a rail boost to get those people onto trains to the city. Not stupid busesys out to Bracken Ridge, busway along trouts Road etc.

[achiruel]

^^ Would it be worth disconnecting the FG line from the QR network and making that metro?

Like extending the Roma St terminating metro to FG? So you would have to rip up the tracks and change it to busway?

Wouldn't that actually reduce the capacity of the line?

[SurfRail]

^^ Would it be worth disconnecting the FG line from the QR network and making that metro?

I honestly don't see how.  Keep in mind the level crossings that you would need to wipe out to enable that - while a worthy goal, it would be very, very expensive.

CRR + Trouts Rd will allow enough capacity to route Shorncliffe trains into the same sector as Kippa-Ring trains, which frees up 8tph for the suburban track pair - 22 trains to be split up between Ferny Grove, the Airport and Doomben.  That's plenty.

[#Metro]

Hi, nothing to do with busway.
Unfortunately the terminology is a mess, I meant heavy rail metro.

Don't really buy the expense argument - Melbourne is removing 50 level crossings.

Offload a state owned power station or two and there will be plenty of funds.

[techblitz]

Not stupid busesys out to Bracken Ridge

And remember the entire 330/331 capacity can fit on a couple trains. Trains that it directly tries to stay away from.

whatchya smoking there HTG.....
theres a little stop called Handford Rd at Zillmere station, Zillmere

btw if you have an issue with the 330 then you also have an issue with the 150....both are getting mad patronage,shuffle lots between major shopping centres and uni/hospitals.....AND both do access the rail line for convenience.

Yes the 330 suffers your standard 'low patronage' at night but so does every other buz route...simple fix is translinks proposal to reduce the frequency post 7/8pm.
I don't see any issue with the current alignment of the 330 route......i would however be much happier for the route if councellors stepped up and implemented bus only lanes between Kedron and Chermside to help it move that little bit faster.
and plz don't throw the 'trains can fit this many buses argument at me'...im a bit over the rail network at the moment....

[aldonius]

- Kippa-Ring fast (express Northgate to Petrie) on the mains
- Kippa-Ring slow (all stations) on the subs to Toombul, then over to the mains
- Shorncliffe (all stations) on the subs to Toombul, then over to the mains
- Subs south of Eagle Junction would be serviced by Airport and Doomben to Bowen Hills, then Ferny Grove
- Mains south of Eagle Junction would be serviced by Kippa-Ring and Shorncliffe continuing through to Darra and beyond

Hold on a tick, doesn't that imply higher frequency Petrie - Kippa-Ring than Northgate-Petrie?

[SurfRail]

Yep.  I didn't come up with it!

It might be a function of that being where the stabling is.  Still seems off.

[HappyTrainGuy]

400m walk. An intersection and 2 flights of stairs hardly seems like a quick and ideal interchange.

And you have no idea what my issue is with the 330. If you did you wouldn't have mentioned the trains will fix all argument.

[techblitz]

400m walk. An intersection and 2 flights of stairs hardly seems like a quick and ideal interchange

more like 300m....250m for the outbound stop..
So because its that distance you consider the bus route as 'staying away from the train line?'

[achiruel]

It's a pity QR/TransLink couldn't work with local business owners to have a continuous covered walkway from bus stops to Zillmere station. Of course the biggest section required would actually be on QR property anyway. Not having travelled there myself, I don't know what signage is like. Is there any signs directing people between the railway station & bus stop? If so what quality is it, e.g. does the sign from railway station say bus to Chermside & Bracken Ridge or just bus this way?

[BrizCommuter]

Oh, I wasn't in any way suggesting to run express on FG line. Just that more services could be run. I think 10tph would be a good frequency for FG in peak, with maybe 6tph in offpeak daytime, 4tph after 7pm.

But for the foreseable future (even post-CRR), more than 8tph cannot be run in the peaks due to track constraints through the network core.

^^ Would it be worth disconnecting the FG line from the QR network and making that metro?

Has the foam party started again? This thread is really about short term solutions to improve bus services to Everton Hills.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It's a pity QR/TransLink couldn't work with local business owners to have a continuous covered walkway from bus stops to Zillmere station. Of course the biggest section required would actually be on QR property anyway. Not having travelled there myself, I don't know what signage is like. Is there any signs directing people between the railway station & bus stop? If so what quality is it, e.g. does the sign from railway station say bus to Chermside & Bracken Ridge or just bus this way?

Only signs are the two generic BBC buses this way signs at main intersection. No advising of the train station for those getting off the bus or where the buses are at the station.

[techblitz]

This thread is really about short term solutions to improve bus services to Everton Hills.

I'm a fan of longer routes which service rail stations and shopping centres(multiple ones a bonus)
So we have nailed it down to 3 routes and 3 stations
The feeder stations are either Alderley,enoggera or mitchelton(I don't like grovely because it backtracks a little too much)
Buses we could do either:

369 extension(as metro suggested)
390 extension(technically it services mitchy rail although it is about the same distance as Zillmere station/330
360 frequency increase.....Enoggera is the perfect feeder station for this route but then again is it Alderley? Its about the same amount of time to get to the rail platforms from each bus stop..only difference is at Alderley you can hook into the KG uni routes coming from Aspley.

[achiruel]

This thread is really about short term solutions to improve bus services to Everton Hills.

I'm a fan of longer routes which service rail stations and shopping centres(multiple ones a bonus)
So we have nailed it down to 3 routes and 3 stations
The feeder stations are either Alderley,enoggera or mitchelton(I don't like grovely because it backtracks a little too much)
Buses we could do either:

369 extension(as metro suggested)
390 extension(technically it services mitchy rail although it is about the same distance as Zillmere station/330
360 frequency increase.....Enoggera is the perfect feeder station for this route but then again is it Alderley? Its about the same amount of time to get to the rail platforms from each bus stop..only difference is at Alderley you can hook into the KG uni routes coming from Aspley.

The issue I see with Alderley is lack of facilities to terminate a bus there.

I think Everton Hills needs a couple of good feeder routes, I don't really see the point of having more buses duplicating what the 390 & 345 are already covering.

I'm not sure exactly where they should go.

Maybe one from Mitchelton Station via Brookside then Caemlia Ave, South Pine Rd, Queens Rd, Old Northern Rd, Keong Rd, Albany Creek Rd (yes, I realise this bit is a bit of a diversion but think it's worthwhile to service a couple of schools & shopping centres, there's not mcuh on Old Northern Rd between Keong Rd & Albany Creek Rd anyway), South Pine Road, Kremzow Rd, Strathpine Station.

Other one from Alderley via South Pine Rd, then Queens Rd, Chinook St, Cabrilla St, Bennetts Rd, Buckland Rd, Bunya Rd, Plucks Rd, Caesar Rd, Gordon Rd to Ferny Grove station.