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Author Topic: Are electric cars a solution?  (Read 4585 times)

Offline ozbob

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Are electric cars a solution?
« on: November 13, 2010, 05:05:45 PM »
If you search the web you will find a large number of interesting reports on electric vehicles.  Sometimes touted as the next solution the reality is they are not.  To replace the present petrol fleet of cars with an electric equivalent (ignoring the technical limitations)  would need an increase in electricity generation capacity anywhere from 2 to 6 times the present outputs for a start.  Hydrogen powered vehicles, intrinsically attractive, burn hydrogen and oxygen you get water ...  where does the hydrogen come from?.  It takes a lot of electrical energy to make hydrogen in the amounts that would be needed.  Ok biofuels?  Ethanol, bio diesel and so forth.  Some utility but simply not possible to produce the amounts that would be needed to replace the present car fleet, let alone projections.  Hybrids?   I have had a hybrid car for 4 years, they are very fuel efficient and will give a buffer against price rises of oil, but they are expensive and need a higher energy input to construct.  But if every car was a hybrid the fuel consumption of Australia would be halved or thereabouts.  Only an interim solution from my view point.

So as oil becomes an increasingly expensive and restricted resource, supplies will be rationed for essential needs including the military. Rail will become the mode for all long haul freight, and I would suggest passenger transport as well.  Electric rail is very efficient.  There is a lot of work going on with sustainable power generation and this will be sufficient for rail needs.

Electric vehicles will be used for local delivery and I suggest taxis.  Some of the more well to do may have personal electric vehicles.  The present road systems are more than adequate now.  We must start on establishing the necessary rail links and planning for the changes that are on the way.  Other nations are well on the way, Australia largely still has its eyes shut.  Wake up!!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 05:34:13 PM by ozbob »
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Offline johnnigh

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 05:12:43 PM »
So fire up those coal-fired power stations, get Hazelwood into top gear for Melbourne's electric cars and just see the CO2 emissions rocket!  :pr

There's little relief from environmental purity short of getting rid of mechanically powered private transport. >:(

Offline #Metro

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 05:13:11 PM »
Ha. The battery would run flat sitting in congestion. And what will be done with the millions and millions of batteries to power these things.
We have been hearing about the advent of the electric car for decades and decades, and they have not gone mainstream yet. We already have the public transport version of the electric car- electric trolleybuses, electric trams, and electric trains.

Why re-invent the wheel again???
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
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Offline Jonno

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 05:26:45 PM »
Electric cars do not solve conestion so the cars stuck in horrendous congestion are electric and if we keep building more roads people just end up traveling further as well. They are part if the solution to reduce them emissions of the 25% of trips that have to be by motor vehicle but they in no way THE solution.

somebody

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 05:53:16 PM »
Electric cars do not solve conestion so the cars stuck in horrendous congestion are electric and if we keep building more roads people just end up traveling further as well. They are part if the solution to reduce them emissions of the 25% of trips that have to be by motor vehicle but they in no way THE solution.
That's about right.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 06:53:43 PM »
Interesting commentary from an American perspective

Electric Cars Aren't Really Green; They're Just Less Gray

" .... So, if you really want to be green, it’s better to get pumped about light rails instead of Leafs. "

Leafs = Nissan Leaf an electric vehicle
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colinw

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 01:29:28 PM »
Single occupant vehicles are not the answer, no matter how they are powered.

I really do not see hybrid vehicles like the Prius solving much in the way of problems.  It is still a big heavy lump of vehicle, with a high environmental cost covering manufacture, transport of the thing from its country of origin, chemicals in battery systems & who knows what else?

Biofuels - not a chance.  To convert the entire transport needs of the world over to bio-ethanol we would need about four Earths worth of crop space, not to mention taking away food cropping.

The answers are, in my opinion:

- Sustainable mass transit (rail, bus, whatever)
- Travel less! Live near where you work, or work from home if your job permits it.

My job is one that could be performed almost entirely from home, and I do in fact work from home some of the time, logging in via VPN.  I find those home days are often the most productive, because they are free of distractions.  The only reason I don't do it with a formal agreement for some number of days per week is the boofheaded attitude of my employer - they simply are not prepared to consider it.

This is one of the reasons I hate the idea of satellite cities like Flagstone.  Unless everyone has a job that can be done remotely, or works in the local area, then we are creating an entire city of 100,000+ who will be dependent on a long distance commute.  Even if rail gets an 80% share of that commute, that is still a big energy burn to get those people to work compared to working near where you live.

While I applaud the success of lines like Gold Coast & Mandurah, I do question whether it is desirable to have these 70+ km commutes to work at all.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 01:56:54 PM »
Quote
While I applaud the success of lines like Gold Coast & Mandurah, I do question whether it is desirable to have these 70+ km commutes to work at all.

I think it is important to have the connection. The rail line is great for going to the Gold or Sunshine Coasts without a car.
Without the rail line, you would not be able to go there.

My view is that if SEQ goes down that path, these places need to get a strong town centre (i.e mini-CBD) built around rail stations with business that will anchor the rest there.
Canberra, and even Sydney is probably the closest to this model. However this is not a panacea either. Sydney has Paramatta, Canberra has Belconnen and Woden- and people still
travel around everywhere.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 02:32:36 AM »
Brisbanetimes --> Electric car charging stations to be built across Queensland

Quote
Southport's Rodney Peachey is one of the first 700 Queenslanders to own an electric car, having owned his Tesla for three months.

Soon, Mr Peachy's car will have a wider range, following the launch of Queensland's first-ever network of electric car chargers.

If all goes to plan, Queensland will have 18 electric vehicle charging stations along the coastline and west to Toowoomba within six months.

For the first 12 months, they will be available for use free to charge.

The chargers will be between 100 and 210 kilometres apart and the network will cost taxpayers about $3 million to put in place and to fund the 12 months of free charging.

Mr Peachey's Tesla P100 D has a range of 500 kilometres when it is fully charged.

In addition to the 700 electric cars in Queensland, there are also aviyt 15,000 petrol/electric hybrids.

Chargers will be built at:

    Cairns;
    Tully;
    Townsville;
    Bowen;
    Mackay;
    Carmila;
    Marlborough;
    Rockhampton;
    Miriam Vale;
    Childers;
    Maryborough;
    Cooroy;
    Brisbane;
    Helensvale;
    Coolangatta;
    Springfield;
    Gatton; and
    Toowoomba.

The biggest distance between the chargers is in north Queensland, with 202 kilometres between Bowen andTownsville, and 208 kilometres between Townsville and Tully.

"In the initial stage this will be provided free of charge and it will be sourced from renewable energy, or from offset sources," acting Main Roads and Environment Minister Steven Miles said at Thursday's launch.

"They will be available for use at no cost for the initial phase of the super highway so we can encourage as many people as possible to start using them."

After that, they will cost about $45 per month.

The range of electic cars vary, withthe Nissan Leaf able to drive188 kilometres, which will push motorists driving between some Queensland charging stations to the limit.

A Hyuandi Ioniq Electric has a range of 199 kilometres. The Chevrolet Bolt can travel 383 kilometres.

Teslas have a range of around 539 kilometres.

Most are now available in Australia.

Mr Peachey said electric cars were more efficient in "stop-start" traffic, similar to the halting, jolting traffic on the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.

"It gets better distance if it is stop-start traffic," he said.

"I get around 650 kilometres in that sort of traffic."

Mr Peachey and fellow electric car owner, Ray Newman, were both converts to the world of electric cars.

"I think in the next two or three years, there will be all types of electric cars when they see what the Tesla can do," Mr Peachey said.

His service bills are lower, with no gearbox, "no grease and oil change" and only the brake fluid to change every two years. Mr Peachy pays several hundred dollars for an annual check.

Mr Newman also drives an American-made Tesla which he bought 2˝ years ago when it was relatively expensive, coming at a price tag of $128,000.

While the cost was "comparable" to his Mercedes-Benz, Mr Newman siad it was a lot cheaper to run.

"I just plug it in at home, which costs me a bit of $1000 a year in electricity," Mr Newman said.

Mr Newman, who has driven his Tesla to Sydney and back five times and down to Melbourne over Christmas, has racked up 50,000 kilometres on his odometer.

New South Wales and Victoria already have a network of electric chargers, to which the car's satellite navigation system guides Mr Newman.

"Here, it is a little bit more sparse, but this is certainly going to help," he said.

Mr Newman said driving longer distances with electric cars was getting easier.

"It is already feasible, " Mr Newman said.

"It is just a little slow if you have to stop (overnight) at a destination changeover," he said.

"It just means you have to stay overnight if you want to charge up."

Residential and workplaces use portable AC chargers and charge overnight.

The chargers at the 18 Queensland sites will be bigger and not easily moved, but they will charge faster and have different connection leads to suit different electric cars.

They use direct current and can charge a vehicle to 80 per cent of its battery capacity within 30 minutes.

Electric Vehicle Council chief executive Behyad Jafari said the state government had sent a good message to the industry.

"This initial support from government serves as a signal to the market that Queensland is serious about electric vehicles and provides certainty to unlock investment to grow our economy and create new, high skilled jobs,"  he said.

"I encourage all governments across Australia to follow suit, particularly as this support will help to provide motorists with increased choice of cars that are cheaper and healthier to operate."
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2019, 06:58:42 PM »
New Generation EVs "UTES and SUVS"


https://youtu.be/QMfxJEfb4lw
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 07:11:24 PM by verbatim9 »

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2019, 07:23:49 PM »
Next Generation EV VW Kombi

https://youtu.be/TQut6ks3nSY

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 12:30:19 AM »
Electric car expo at the Sunshine Coast

https://twitter.com/7NewsSC/status/1142996045699268609

Offline ozbob

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 09:30:36 AM »
Brisbanetimes --> Charging electric cars in Queensland will be 'half the cost of petrol'

Quote
Drivers of electric cars in Queensland will pay 45˘ per kilowatt hour at most to charge their vehicles, about half the cost of fuelling up with petrol.

Until now, the state government’s network of 31 electric car charging stations - between Cairns and Coolangatta and from Brisbane inland to Toowoomba - has been free.

But drivers would be charged a fee to use Queensland's electric super highway within weeks, sources told Brisbane Times.

A spokesman for Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said Yurika Energy was in negotiations with a private firm partner to charge a price below 45˘ per kilowatt hour.

“This equates to about $20 for 300 kilometres of driving range,” Yurika Energy general manager Charles Rattray said.

On Tuesday, petrol prices around Brisbane were about $1.63 a litre.

Prices on Queensland’s electric super highway – or QESH – are set by Yurika Energy, the sustainable energy arm of Energy Queensland. The network itself is managed by private company Chargefox.

Chargefox chief executive Marty Andrews said the company had worked in Australia and New Zealand over the past two years with councils, shopping centre retailers such as Westfield and equipment suppliers to put electric car chargers in place.

Mr Andrews said most electric car charging stations around Australia - similar to QESH - now charged less than 45˘ per kilowatt hour.

"For them, around the country, they range from about 25˘ to 45˘ per kilowatt hour," he said.

"So it's around one-half to one-third the cost of petrol."

Queensland's network of electric chargers has been promoted awkwardly, with limited signage.

Mr Andrews said Brisbane improvements were being discussed.

At Toombul Shopping Centre, home to two of Queensland’s fastest electric car charging stations, where a driver can add 400 kilometres to an electric car’s driving range in 15 minutes, there are no signs to find the stations.

The latest fast chargers are on the shopping centre’s roof, while the older chargers – mostly for Tesla vehicles – are in the undercover car park, where they can be located by mobile phone.

"For most of Queensland's electric super highway, chargers are visible from the street, but in places like Toombul they are in the shopping centre's large car park," Mr Andrews said.

"We are building in instructions to our mobile phone app so you know what level on the car park you go to, but we are also working with the owners of those buildings to provide signage and directions."

Mr Andrews said Adelaide City Council has added digital signage in council-run car parks letting motorists find the charging stations, as an example.

Brisbane-based Tritium, which provides electric car chargers to 70 per cent of Australia’s sites and 3000 sites outside Australia, recently introduced fast electric chargers at some Queensland sites.

Most of Queensland’s electric super highway chargers are 50 kilowatt hour DC chargers, which can add 75 kilometres to a car’s range in 15 minutes.

Mr Andrews estimated the cost of an electric car would reach parity with petrol cars in fleet sales by 2021-22 and car dealerships shortly afterwards.

"I think in 2025-26 mums and dads will walk into a showroom and the sticker price on an electric car will be the same as or lower than the sticker price on a petrol vehicle."

The Queensland government planned to expand the number of electric vehicles in its fleet from 18 in 2018 to 288 in 2022, according to the Department of Housing and Public Works.

Mr Andrews said 12,500 electric cars were now registered in Australia, less than 1 per cent of total vehicle sales.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2019, 01:20:12 AM »

Couriermail --> ACCC says gas guzzlers subsidise electric cars, calls for change in how we pay for roads

Quote
Australia’s consumer watchdog says electric car owners have an unfair advantage over poorer people driving gas-guzzlers and are calling for a huge change to way we pay for our roads. Here’s why.

WEALTHY motorists who can afford flash electric cars are unfairly using roads for free at the expense of poorer drivers, consumer tsar Rod Sims said yesterday.

Mr Sims, who chairs the Federal Government’s Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), said it was unfair that electric car owners were exempt from the 41 cent per litre fuel tax, which pays for roads.

He called on the government to abolish the fuel excise and replace it with a hi-tech levy based on the distance driven.

“Whenever you fill up your car, 41 cents a litre is going (in taxes) to pay for your road use,’’ Mr Sims told The Courier-Mail yesterday.

“People who buy electric cars are travelling on roads without cost, and that’s really not fair.

“Why should they have an advantage over people driving petrol cars?’’

Mr Sims said it was also unfair that motorists who could afford new fuel-efficient cars were paying less fuel tax than those with old-model gas-guzzlers.

“The older cars are less fuel efficient, so they pay more to use the roads,’’ he said. “How’s that fair?’’

Mr Sims said the Federal Government should find a different way of charging for road use, by using tracking technology to charge motorists for the distance driven, or the time spent driving.

“You could lower or remove the petrol excise and charge motorists when they use a road, or where they use it,’’ he said.

“Technology can track where and when you’re going.’’

The Federal Government will pocket $13.4 billion in fuel excise this financial year, but spend just $6.6 billion on roads and rail.

The Royal Automobile Club of Queensland (RACQ) yesterday said Queensland would receive $1.78 billion in road funding this financial year — slightly more than what motorists will contribute in fuel excise.

RACQ head of public policy Rebecca Michael said Australia needs a “fairer and more sustainable’’ way of paying for roads.

“With the rise of fuel efficient and ultra-low emission vehicles, this revenue stream is under threat and likely to result in less funding for road and rail into the future,’’ she said yesterday.

“The current system is unfair as those with ultra-low emission vehicles are not contributing to the upkeep of the road network.

“We need road user charging reform to ensure everyone is paying their fair share.’’

Mr Sims said the fuel excise — which is now paid into Treasury coffers for spending across all areas of government — should be set aside and spent only on roads.

All motorists, including electric vehicle owners, also contribute to road funding by paying an annual registration fee to the State Government.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 01:37:36 AM by ozbob »
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2019, 08:49:53 PM »
The South-East will soon be home to the fastest electric vehicle charging station in the country. @ParisMartin_9 #9News https://t.co/Z84CBGMiiF

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1193810522203799553

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2020, 11:09:51 AM »
Looks like Victoria and South Australia are to  bring in distance based tolling for electric vehicles. I think this is premature and they should wait for further uptake of EVs.

Distance tolling for transport is the way of the future but to impose this measure on EVs while uptake is low can be counter productive.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 03:27:40 PM by verbatim9 »

Offline wandering_fred

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2020, 12:21:54 AM »
Add excise tax to the public chargeable charging stations.
Provides incentive to use your home/work solar powered station....

Offline Gazza

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Re: Are electric cars a solution?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2020, 08:46:34 AM »
Looks like Victoria and South Australia are to  bring in distance based tolling for electric vehicles. I think this is premature and they should wait for further uptake of EVs.

Distance tolling for transport is the way of the future but to impose this measure on EVs while uptake is low can be counter productive.
This is how I feel.
There should be a distance based tax to replace fuel excise, because EVs still cause congestion, but the tax should just have maybe a staged introduction, eg when uptake reaches 10% or something to give them a chance.

This would achieve two policy goals. It would still lock in a future revenue stream, but it would also encourage some uptake by people wanting to beat the tax.

 

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