Proposal: Route 305- Skygate->GoMA via Hamilton and ICB

[Cazza]

Route 305:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1HS_BZC4xLfqpWtDJSD6p-KjYCNU&ll=-27.43665374420325%2C153.06390789982913&z=13

Benefits:
-Direct connection from CBD to Portside and DFO and Hamilton/Ascot and Brisbane Grammar Schools
-First frequent service to booming Hamilton Harbour and Portside precincts and Eagle Farm TAFE
-Stops at 3 major interchange points in the city
-Will run along newly upgraded Kingsford Smith Drive (hopefully with bus lanes  )
-Customers from north-west suburbs can transfer at Normanby (instead of the city) to Portside/DFO
-First service from the north to stop at GoMA
-Stop near Caxton St to pick up/drop off "party goers"

Disadvantages:
-Runs along Inner City Bypass which has varying traffic levels. In saying this, between Bowen Bridge Rd and Kingsford Smith Dr, it is unlikely that large build-ups occur. Also, peak hour rockets from western suburbs use ICB.
-The long section of the route along the ICB doesn't pick up any passengers. Route would be kinda pointless if it was to run down Breakfast Creek Rd as route 305 was meant to be a fast express route.

Frequencies:
Route 305 will be similar to a BUZ service only that it doesn't run every 15 mins at night:
Weekdays:
5am-6am: 30 mins
6am-9am: 10-15 mins (both directions)
9am-3pm: 15-20 mins
3pm-7pm: 10-15 mins (both directions)
7pm-10pm: 30 mins
Weekends:
5am-8am: 20-30 mins
8am-6pm: 15-20 mins
6pm-8pm: 20 mins
8pm-10pm: 30 mins
Some journeys early in the morning or late at night may only operate between GoMA and Portside only.

Here are some examples of journeys on route 305:
-Airport workers in the south/western suburbs can get buses/trains into city, transfer onto 305, drop children at kindergarten in Skygate complex then get free shuttle to Airport
-Shoppers travelling to Portside or DFO can catch a bus/train/ferry into the city, then straight out to DFO rather than a train and unreliable route 590
-Shoppers from Norman Park, New Farm, Hawthorne or Bulimba areas can catch the ferry to Brett's Wharf then 305 to Portside or DFO

Also, in the Bus Reform, route 302 should terminate at Brett's Wharf to reduce duplication into the city. Customers can catch the CityCat or routes 300 or 305 to Brett's Wharf.

[BrizCommuter]

Probably should be made clear in the above thread that is an idea/proposal, and not official.

[verbatim9]

Council and Transkink are proposing a Hamilton Glyder when the Kingsford Smith Drive widening is completed. As mentioned in the proposed network map.

Some thoughts from myself

When the Hamilton Glyder is confirmed be good to see that extended out to the new cruise terminal or terminating/Turnaround at DFO Skygate. Can then connect with the T bus to the terminals and act as a direct service from the city to Skygate for visitors and residents. Servicing Key locations Valley - Newstead -  Cnr Racecourse/Kingsford Smith Drive-Portside-Hamilton Northshore then up to Skygate serving some stops in Airport Park before arriving at Skygate.

It could also run via ICB Inner Northern Busway to Goma or just ICB Goma via Go Between Bridge?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Lots of express running for what effectively is only a handful of stops. Throw it down Nudgee Road and via the Valley/Gasworks. Maybe even run it to somewhere in West End. But to me it seems like a lot of waste. Especially without major network mods which is really needed.

[Cazza]

Lots of express running for what effectively is only a handful of stops.

That was one of my main concerns. The reason why it was routed along ICB is:
-Perceived by commuters as a quicker service as it runs express
-Try something new
-Didn't duplicate route 300 along Breakfast Creek Rd and Ann St (soon-to-be Hi300)
-Connects well with buses to North-Western Region at Normanby and Roma St.

As you said, it would probably be more beneficial running down Ann St but I wanted to see if this could work.

Re. Nudgee Rd.
This was my other option routing option as there is a connection with train at Doomben (if one ever turns up that is) and the fact that Nudgee Rd has to put up with the current 45min weekday frequency that the 301 gives. The only reason why I chose SCW was because it was slightly faster and served the Eagle Farm TAFE.

Looking back, I feel it would be more beneficial via Nudgee Rd to serve more people as route 302 will stop at EFT.

I will modify the map to show these two options.

Cheers

[SurfRail]

No from me.

- Doesn't serve the residential area at Hamilton which is off the grid
- Adds more complexity to the network
- Skygate doesn't need a direct connection to Hamilton
- Most importantly - Brisbane's network is completely borked and needs a comprehensive overhaul before any more tweaks or new routes get added

[James]

My main concerns with the route are this:
- It misses RBWH. I know RBWH is really hard to serve from the ICB, in particular heading westbound, but it is a very important connecting point for buses from the northside.
- Too much express running. Often buses which spend most of their route running along freeways struggle to attract patronage as they bypass potential passengers - I think Human transit did an article on this.  Sure, peak-hour rockets running express on the busway work because car parking in the CBD is expensive and in short supply and there is enough demand in the peak. The same can't really be said for Skygate or Northshore Hamilton - this will cause the route to flop in time.
- Skygate - I think we overestimate this place as a trip generator. Sure, there are a whole heap of fashion outlets there, but it isn't a good day-to-day trip generator. The place is also closed until 10am and after 6pm, aside from the 24hr Woolies and a few other small stores. Not a very good all-day trip generator.
- GOMA - GOMA is a turn-around, if you really needed a northside bus there, you could extend the 300 or 333. No need for a new route.
- Linking Caxton St and Hamilton seems like one of those 'nice to have' things - is there much evidence of demand for PT outside of game days?
- Airport workers - how much demand is there actually from Airport workers? I know airtrain does a deal for Airport workers, and again, I'm not sure if commuters are willing to make such long trips when they currently make such trips with a car.

Personally, I'd rather see the 369 re-extended to DFO, and timed to provide 15 minute frequency between it and the 590 between Toombul and DFO. The current 304 could then be extended up to Toombul, providing a connection between Hamilton and DFO, while making the network more useful.

What we really need is network reform. Once a new network is instituted, we can see what gaps need plugging and what connections need filling. No point drawing lines on a map until that happens, sadly.

[Cazza]

I figured this would be the general consensus. With the new proposed network, most of the route would be covered by a frequent service anyway.

Route alignment along Nudgee/Breakfast Creek Rd has been added:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1HS_BZC4xLfqpWtDJSD6p-KjYCNU&ll=-27.43665374420325%2C153.06390789982913&z=13

[#Metro]

Since we are talking about this, I have my own thoughts:

1. Extending a bus from the CBD to Portside and DFO can be done, but it would be expensive and duplicate most other routes
in that corridor anyway.

2. It duplicates the ferry to Portside.

3. If people want to go to DFO, they can get a train to Toombul and transfer. It takes 20 min to go from Roma Street to Toombul, and 10 min to go from Toombul to DFO on the 590. The 590 can be boosted by doubling its frequency through a merger with the 599/598 in this section. This merger would essentially be cost-neutral as it is a timetabling re-arrangement.

4. I would look at maybe extending the 369 crosstown to Portside. This avoids duplication of the CityCat ferries or other buses, and it allows the bus to enter right into the Portside precinct.

Route 369 PORTSIDE
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CYkTbSHUWIskRSxSqFEYl88C9Rg&usp=sharing

This is something that could be trialled for 6-12 months to see if it would work. City-bound passengers can take the CityCat.

[techblitz]

I think we overestimate this place as a trip generator. Sure, there are a whole heap of fashion outlets there, but it isn't a good day-to-day trip generator.

on the contrary...ive seen 40+ busloads heading back to Toombul on a weekday.....where many do the walk over to Toombul only to be met with poor frequency on rail but pax seem to be perservering with it.
There is significantly more demand between Toombul & skygate than the other side to G.city.Makes sense since they are mostly coming from rail.

Don't underestimate the potential of skygate to northshore either....there are a lot of middle to high income earners moving to that area who have money to spend...there will be boutique shops at northshore/portside but far more options at skygate.....theres also the quick trip to airport factor.

[#Metro]

on the contrary...ive seen 40+ busloads heading back to Toombul on a weekday.....where many do the walk over to Toombul only to be met with poor frequency on rail but pax seem to be perservering with it.
There is significantly more demand between Toombul & skygate than the other side to G.city.Makes sense since they are mostly coming from rail.

Don't underestimate the potential of skygate to northshore either....there are a lot of middle to high income earners moving to that area who have money to spend...there will be boutique shops at northshore/portside but far more options at skygate.....theres also the quick trip to airport factor.

DFO <---> Toombul can support buses every 15 minutes all day IMO. Have seen it with my own eyes during the 369 introduction - lots of transfer pax at Toombul. Buses ran every 15 min then.

Scapping the GCL between Garden City - Toombul and reallocating those route-km to a
902 Toombul via Carindale (CITYCONNECTOR) that runs every 15 minutes would be my preferred option.

[Cazza]

I think we overestimate this place as a trip generator. Sure, there are a whole heap of fashion outlets there, but it isn't a good day-to-day trip generator.

Don't underestimate the potential of skygate to northshore either....there are a lot of middle to high income earners moving to that area who have money to spend...there will be boutique shops at northshore/portside but far more options at skygate.....theres also the quick trip to airport factor.

This one was on the reasons behind it. With the apartment boom in Northshore Hamilton and Budget Airport Motels along Kingsford Smith Dr, people can catch the 305 to Skygate then the free terminal shuttle- only for the price of 1 zone!

[James]

on the contrary...ive seen 40+ busloads heading back to Toombul on a weekday.....where many do the walk over to Toombul only to be met with poor frequency on rail but pax seem to be perservering with it.
There is significantly more demand between Toombul & skygate than the other side to G.city.Makes sense since they are mostly coming from rail.

Don't underestimate the potential of skygate to northshore either....there are a lot of middle to high income earners moving to that area who have money to spend...there will be boutique shops at northshore/portside but far more options at skygate.....theres also the quick trip to airport factor.

The question you have to ask with a lot of middle/high income earners is are they actually going to use the bus? How many times a month are you actually going to go and buy clothes? How often are people travelling to the airport from that specific area, and more importantly, are willing to transfer with bags to travel what is 10 minutes in a taxi? Naturally, you can say "build it and they will come", but the resources for such a high frequency route could be better provided elsewhere on the northside, or to serve other destinations in the area.

DFO isn't your ordinary shopping centre for the precise reason that it lacks the department stores, cinemas & food outlets like Toombul has. Sure, DFO can absolutely support 15 minute frequency, but it needs to connect to somewhere useful in terms of the overall network - Toombul, not Doomben or Hamilton.

[#Metro]

The question you have to ask with a lot of middle/high income earners is are they actually going to use the bus? How many times a month are you actually going to go and buy clothes? How often are people travelling to the airport from that specific area, and more importantly, are willing to transfer with bags to travel what is 10 minutes in a taxi? Naturally, you can say "build it and they will come", but the resources for such a high frequency route could be better provided elsewhere on the northside, or to serve other destinations in the area.

Clearly, James, the Doomben Maglev needs to be extended to Portside so that it attracts high income people too. 

[verbatim9]

^^I agree the train to Toombul then up and down stairs, waiting at a busy arterial road then cross and wait for another bus at the bus station for 20mins doesn't really cut it. Not convenient for Tourists either. Going forward there will be consolidation of routes around the area after the next bus review. The population is growing around Hamilton Northshore. The Ferry is good but takes a while to the CBD. The Glyder will be a good transformation for the area and encourage PT use. Skygate is a good transfer point to 590/TBus even if patronage maybe be low at times off peak from Hamilton to Skygate (which hasn't been tested!) Later down the track the Doomben line can be looked at being converted to Light Rail/Electric MetroTram Bus corridor and open up land for bikeways alongside the corridor from Eagle Junction.

There will be alot of transportation changes for the area especially when Skygate station gets built. If negotiated as a TransLink subsdised station one could see many possibilities.