Started by ozbob, May 30, 2017, 05:52:44 AM
Quote from: Jonno on July 29, 2023, 23:04:04 PMUtter hogwash!!
QuoteNew stations add new passengers (access) but they also subtract them (extra stops increases the car-PT journey time gap).
QuoteThis maths approach to stations spacing flies in the face of evidence from the successful cities.
QuoteWhat they have done is reduce road space for cars, charge congestion and made active/transport safe, fast, frequent and connected.
QuoteEven London and Paris have RER and Elizabeth Line.
QuotePassengers care about relative journey times versus alternatives.
QuoteIf this wasn't the case, coverage bus routes with lots of stops would be highly patronised. They aren't.
QuoteOperators care about rolling stock requirements, which are higher for lines with closer spacing.
QuoteEven on the traditional Sydney rail network there are all day express trains from Parramatta into the CBD which make one stop at Strathfield then into Redfern then Central and into the city circle.
QuoteWould it boost patronage to make those trains all stops? Would the service still be attractive to upstream passengers if that happened?
Quote-Australian cities have spent a lot of time prioritizing point to point car travel, making things faster for them.-It's still happening (Westconnex)-Now public transport is set the impossible task of trying to keep up with this the speed of cars.-So you get absurd situations where metros are being built right under existing high density suburbs that were developed before the car was king, the perfect place where a metro would work, but there are no stops.
Quote from: Jonno on August 14, 2023, 10:06:39 AMThis is spot on. If we think we need to "just compete" with urban freeways then we are being fools. Yes Urban Freeways exist but in the long term given what we no know about their cost, impacts, etc. ....the question to be answered is should they? I think long term the answer is No.
Quote from: RowBro on August 14, 2023, 10:30:50 AMQuote from: Jonno on August 14, 2023, 10:06:39 AMThis is spot on. If we think we need to "just compete" with urban freeways then we are being fools. Yes Urban Freeways exist but in the long term given what we no know about their cost, impacts, etc. ....the question to be answered is should they? I think long term the answer is No.ICB cough* cough*
Quote from: #Metro on August 14, 2023, 16:42:22 PMAgree JimmyP, I doubt we will see genuinely new 'greenfield' metro lines after the current batch is complete in Sydney. They will likely be line section conversions of existing CityRail lines.Space will probably shift to BRT/LRT in Priority B because the overall value proposition is better. You can get a lot more for a lot less.Lower tech / planning solutions are not as sexy but they can be really effective. See https://humantransit.org/2010/04/australia-the-pitfalls-of-metroenvy.html
QuoteThis is putting horse before the cart. Saying LRT is better value assume it meets the mode share outcomes desired!! What if it doesn't?
Quote from: #Metro on August 14, 2023, 11:01:36 AMHmm... Service needs to be fast because unlike cars, PT needs to make stops, then you have access, waiting time and interchanging as well.The problem with slow transit is that it is poorly suited to cities which sprawl over long distances. Parramatta is 20 km from the Sydney CBD, Penrith is 50 km.We already have plenty of closely spaced stations in Brisbane. How's that going? LRT and BRT would be a better option in my view for denser inner city areas, similar to how Melbourne has a tram core in the inner city. Melbourne trams are doing 200 million plus trips per year, multiple times what QR is moving.Moreover, you can get lots of tram lines and stops in the denser inner city for the cost of one metro line. If you want coverage, that's how we could get it.Toll RoadsToll roads are interesting because although they offer a higher speed, they also charge the user. This reduces their use and keeps them relatively un-congested. They are not really a means of mass transport because their capacity is inherently low and the toll.Provided that the government doesn't subsidise them, i'm wondering if they are even relevant to PT patronage. Was there a fall in Ipswich line patronage when Legacy Way opened, for example?
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