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Author Topic: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern  (Read 1455 times)

Offline Cazza

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Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« on: April 23, 2017, 04:53:04 PM »
Just something that I've been thinking about lately is the Caboolture Line and how it stops at 6 stations (2 of them in quite low density areas) then runs express to the city. Surely, patronage would not be that high in some parts of the day and air would be the majority of what is being carried.

So, why not have it stop at Strathpine and Zillmere (like the GC Line at Loganlea and Altandi) so pax. numbers can rise. Also, Strathpine station is very close to the Westfield which is a major trip generator along with the bus connections to Warner and Bray Park and at Zillmere, customers can transfer from route 330 etc. for a quicker trip to the city.

I'd like to hear people's ideas on this.

Online ozbob

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 04:56:42 PM »
I think stopping at Strathpine would definitely be a good move. Possibly Zillmere.

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Offline STB

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 05:13:24 PM »
The reason the Gold Coast line stops at Loganlea and Altandi is to provide links to Logan Hospital and Griffith University (especially given Griffith Uni has a campus on the Gold Coast, at Logan and at Nathan/Mt Gravatt - with bus links via Altandi), Altandi also has very high frequency bus services on a major corridor.

The Caboolture/Sunshine Coast line lacks both, Zillmere might make some sense, but not Strathpine.

The Sunshine Coast line for the most part also stops all stations from Caboolture to Petrie before running express, this would be like stopping the Gold Coast train all stations from Beenleigh to Kingston.

I wouldn't support altering the stopping patterns unless it was shown those stations (Stratphine and Zillmere) would have a high uptake of people transferring to get to key destinations.

Offline wbj

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 05:17:32 PM »
Just something that I've been thinking about lately is the Caboolture Line and how it stops at 6 stations (2 of them in quite low density areas) then runs express to the city. Surely, patronage would not be that high in some parts of the day and air would be the majority of what is being carried.

So, why not have it stop at Strathpine and Zillmere (like the GC Line at Loganlea and Altandi) so pax. numbers can rise. Also, Strathpine station is very close to the Westfield which is a major trip generator along with the bus connections to Warner and Bray Park and at Zillmere, customers can transfer from route 330 etc. for a quicker trip to the city.

I'd like to hear people's ideas on this.

Cazza

The pattern you describe is the peak period pattern.  Otherwise its all stations in both directions.

Strathpine certainly has a high commuter count at peak periods.  If the inbound expresses stopped at Strathpine I think there would be minimal passengers alighting at Strathpine and a lot boarding.  It would be attractive for those boarding and probably draw commuters from Bray Park and maybe Bald Hills and overfill the current carparks.  Unintended consequences.

Zillmere does seem to be fairly popular as a commuter station.  But if you have most of the Strathpine and Zillmere commuters catching the Caboolture express services, you're likely to be carrying a lot of air on the Redcliffe all stations commuter services.

Online ozbob

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 06:07:12 PM »
There is a lot of local angst concerning the trains that bypass Strathpine.  It used to be a regular stop on the patterns prior to the changes in 2011 I recall.  There was a bit of grief locally about it.  Still is. I think the essential reason it was changed was to load balance under the then new timetables.  As we do not have the luxury of passenger load data for various stations ( most things hidden in Queensland ), we are all p%ssing into the wind essentially.
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Offline petey3801

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 06:29:32 PM »
The Caboolture line gets quite good patronage all day even with the express running (night services are often lightly loaded, but that's nothing out of the ordinary on the QR network).
For people wishing to travel to/from Strathpine from north of Petrie, there is a good connection between the all stations and express services at Petrie (around a 5min, same island platform transfer - A very good connection really!). As for Zillmere, it's only a few stations north of Northgate before the train runs express anyway, so hardly worth slowing the Caboolture/Nambour trains down for what is, for the vast majority, simply a commuter station (ie: no big trip generators bringing in people from north of Petrie etc).
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 06:31:27 PM »
There is a lot of local angst concerning the trains that bypass Strathpine.  It used to be a regular stop on the patterns prior to the changes in 2011 I recall.  There was a bit of grief locally about it.  Still is. I think the essential reason it was changed was to load balance under the then new timetables.  As we do not have the luxury of passenger load data for various stations ( most things hidden in Queensland ), we are all p%ssing into the wind essentially.

I believe only the Nambour and Gympie North trains were not stopping at Strathpine prior to the 2012 changes.
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Offline tazzer9

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 08:26:09 AM »
The caboolture line is rather well loaded even during the traditional quiet times.   It shows how quick the trip is on the current pattern (was still good before). 

Offline James

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 10:20:58 AM »
Zillmere has the 330 BUZ going through it, providing links to Chermside & Gympie Rd. I think it'd be a good idea to stop the express trains there. Northgate, while a good transfer point for rail, is in an inconvenient location on the road network. It's difficult for buses to get to and reach Chermside quickly.

I guess where the outer Caboolture line does very well is that now most of the journey is express, it is very competitive compared to the car, even in the off-peak (52 mins from Morayfield station vs. 46 minutes by car).
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline techblitz

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 11:11:59 AM »
BT need to have more bus routes feeding into either of those Chermside stations(Carseldine,zillmere or geebung)..... before QR makes a decision to slow down the Caboolture services....the current mediocre 1 buz + 1 minor route(Carseldine/Zillmere) and a few hourly routes(geebung) just doesn't put a strong enough argument for QR to pull the train up....
Strathpine is pretty much the same argument....needs a major upgrade to be bus friendly and lots of buses feeding into it.....

Offline Arnz

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 11:31:10 AM »
With the Sunshine Coast/Nambour line now merged into the Caboolture line timetabling, I think I speak for most saying no thanks to extra stops.

Saying that, the Zillmere and/or Strathpine probably only work if the Caboolture and Nambour lines were separated back out again, which isn't going to be anytime soon with the lack of drivers, the track capacity north of Petrie and the very long awaited increase from the NGR & EMU/ICE retirements being very minimal. 

In addition to Elimbah & Woombye stabling capacity, it's likely that Nambour services will be going Daytime Hourly in the medium term (within the next 2-3 years) as a extension of every 2nd Caboolture train.  This is likely with PN & Aurizon freighters squeezed in (including the loop improvement proposals at Mooloolah and Woombye.. though it surprises me why Palmwoods wasn't selected for NCL crossing improvements).
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2017, 04:11:30 PM »


Zillmere is a bitch of a station to stop at. Why this is even a topic is beyond me. Its a commuter station. That's it. Nothing feeds into it. The 326/327 runs between peak hours and not in the ideal way you'd like to run an interchange. Parking is beyond maxed out in the morning, empty by 7pm and a handful of cars on the weekend. There are no trip generators around. Its an industrial estate/small dwellings to the west and housing to the east. The only trip generator in that area is the BWS and the Dominos. Off peak the 330 carries air so why stop the Caboolture train there. The buz is effectively 300m away at the minimum because of the stop location and the platforms stairs. Its also an area that grubs hang around so its not going to give incentive to many to change modes of services.

So please try to convince me why it would be a good idea to stop trains there :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 04:21:37 PM by HappyTrainGuy »
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Offline tazzer9

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2017, 04:42:14 PM »
ZIllmere is situated on the slowest section of the caboolture line, so a stop there isn't slowing down the entire service by too much

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 05:03:53 PM »
Strathpine would be the one to stop at, but it needs to be upgraded and have better bus facilities in place.

There should be a proper upgrade which enables full DDA compliance at Strathpine, Bray Park, Lawnton and Petrie 1-3, and up-up-down-down running between Strathpine and Petrie which then gets funnelled into up-middle-down south of Strathpine.  Due to the imperfect layout at Petrie you will probably need four platforms at the intermediate stations because the Kippa-Ring tracks are not the middle 2 or the outer 2.

Offline Cazza

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 05:14:45 PM »
HTG, just chill out. This is an opinion based forum, so I'm really not sure why you are still here if the tiniest of things annoy you. I do like hearing feedback but a little less aggressive is preferable.

To answer some of your questions:

It's a topic because I wanted to hear people's thoughts on the subject. I didn't fully understand why the Caboolture Line ran express from Petrie into the city (with Northgate/E.J) and why there were no intermediate stations. Having only caught the Caboolture Line once from Petrie -> BH (pre RPL- Caboolture Line stopping all stations) at about 12pm on the school holidays, I did notice it was quite busy- especially south of Petrie.

The reason for me saying Strathpine was quite simple (which is what most are agreeing with)- Westfield close by plus the massive residential areas of Warner/Bray Park with a decent number of connecting buses at Westfield. It is also close to the Brendale Industrial Park (if one is motivated for a 10-15 mins walk). The only real minus that has been mentioned is the increased journey times (which is a given).

Zillmere- mixed views. I can see both sides and I would be fine if just Strathpine was stopped at. But where I'm coming from is that you have both the suburbs of Zillmere and Taigum that feed into this station. Also, in the Proposed Bus Network, the 330 terminates at Chermside (not the city) so if travelling from Bracken Ridge into the city, a necessary change at Chermside would be required. Customers could change at Zillmere station at the moment, but would have to catch a Springfield bound all stops train (all stops to Northgate that is). In the New Bus Network, there is no direct service to the city from Bracken Ridge (even in peak hour), so it would be more appealing for commuters if an express train stopped here. Staying with the Hi Frequency Network, it has been planned that a new bus interchange point (or KPI as it is described as) is to be built right next to the station for easy interchanges. So, the main reason for stopping at Zillmere was the interchange with route 330 and easy access to Chermside.

And to do with the people, yes, it may not be the highest of demographics, but I can tell you, you will find those people in every suburb. It is a very mixed area up near Zillmere- suburbs like itself and Bracken Ridge aren't as well of as Fitzgibbon or Carseldine (for example).

Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2017, 07:25:34 PM »
Cazza. My point was to anyone wanting stations added to the Caboolture line was to list them as to why they should be on the Caboolture stopping pattern. Many of the reasons would be the same that you could apply to other stations and other lines. You might think i'm on a tangent but I'm just being brutally honest.

Quote
The reason for me saying Strathpine was quite simple (which is what most are agreeing with)- Westfield close by plus the massive residential areas of Warner/Bray Park with a decent number of connecting buses at Westfield. It is also close to the Brendale Industrial Park (if one is motivated for a 10-15 mins walk). The only real minus that has been mentioned is the increased journey times (which is a given).

Pre timetable change Petrie-City is what carried the off peak patronage on the Caboolture line. Its one of the reasons why I kept saying here that the Caboolture line trains shouldn't be 4tph. They just can't sustain it without another trip generator such as the MBRL or local feeder buses linking it to have passengers on it. If you caught it regularly you'd notice how patronage came in waves or how it just fell off a cliff once it departed Petrie heading to Caboolture (remember the bus network outside of Brisbane isn't the best).

As someone that uses Strathpine as their local train station I can say that many people agreeing with you may not know the actual area. The fact that people keep saying that Westfield is beside it (and in other threads) tells the truth (it was sold back in mid 2015 and completely rebranded to "Strathpine Centre" by September when they had a big rebranding launch). While it does sound good to them what they might be thinking of can be totally different to what actually happens there. Anyway Strathpine railway station isn't the major rail/bus interchange in the area. That goes to Bray Park. Strathpine only has a couple buses that go past it (and by past it it goes along the level crossing which has a lack of crossing facilities) and both of them are on the fringes with the center interchange being about a 600m walk away with intersections. MBRC wants to change Strathpine station into a major rail/bus interchange as part of its council upgrade works but lacks the funds/expected to start in 2026 or something. It also wants to reclaim the industrial area for residential use but that too isn't going to happen for a while due to lack of funds/planned 2026 date. The best bus frequency in the Strathpine area is the 680. Every other bus is hourly which also includes peak hour services. As part of MBRC upgrading the surrounds and reclaiming of the industrial land beside it, QR was to move the station further north off the kink (which is why its been rumored as to why Strathpine has had DDA upgrades delayed for so long) which would cater for more platforms by resuming the existing car parks, longer platforms, track allocations and level crossing removal. Strathpine is also the planned key interchange station for the Trouts road corridor.



Many people here have gone on and on about having a busway between Zillmere Road and Pretoria Street just for the 330 so you can see why I bring up the foam photos quite a lot when people get a hard on for something because they suddenly become an expert at using Google earth. Taigum hardly feeds into Zillmere Startion. The majority of Taigum is serviced by the 325/335. The 335 connects to Carseldine and Boondall along with the 325 connecting into Geebung. Carseldine also has the 340 which is slower than the 335 between Carseldine-Chermside.

Quite frankly my view of any proposed network changes are just sh%t. The translink review which feels like 30 yeas ago now had by far a better design which allowed for interchanges at various locations across the northside. It was a network that people could and would actually use. Everything that I've seen since has been pretty poor when compared to it.

Yes, you can find many of the same grubs anywhere but they are different from station to station depending on how the station and interchange is configured. Just like how people don't like exiting Bray Park station towards Gympie Road late at night as it means walking down a narrow 2m alleyway with high fences on both sides. The same applies for other stations where local council lighting is non existant outside of the stadium lights at Railway stations (Dakabin is one big example of people using it complaining to QR about lack of lighting on council land).

Remember I'm just being honest. There really is no need to add stops at Strathpine and Zillmere.

ARNZ, Also prior to the timetable changes in 2011 Zillmere and Strathpine had express services.
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Offline red dragin

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2017, 07:42:16 PM »
Throw in Strathpine as a stop, you also push out the travel time from north of Petrie, and increase the interchange time at petrie for MBRL services, making the a longer (and less desirable) trip.

Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 07:50:59 PM »
Throw in Strathpine as a stop, you also push out the travel time from north of Petrie, and increase the interchange time at petrie for MBRL services, making the a longer (and less desirable) trip.

You just have to be stuck in traffic on Sandgate road next to Toombul railway station to see how fast those express trains fly past compared to the slow all stoppers. Went to a cricket game next to the railway bridge there and the express trains just hurtle across it at speed. Good to see that again.
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 08:49:57 PM »
As was pointed earlier, in the medium term (3-5 years) with the opening of the Elimbah & Woombye stabling yards, its very likely that every 2nd daytime Caboolture train will be extended to Nambour to make it hourly to Nambour (up from the current 90 min frequency/every 3rd train).

The long politicised Beerburrum to Landsborough duplication would enable least make this every 30 mins to Landsborough (on top of the  primary aim of the duplication which is increased freight capacity for Pacific National & Aurizon, plus the track access fees to QR from those operators for those freight services).
Rgds,
Arnz

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achiruel

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Re: Caboolture Line Stopping Pattern
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 08:11:18 AM »
Caboolture trains stop at all stations from Northgate to Bowen Hills on weekends/public holidays.

Would it be worthwhile extending this to night services (e.g. after 7pm) or weekdays as well, in order to save on the number of Northgate starters/terminators that have to be run?

 

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