Other solutions to Brisbane Public Transport Woes

[jason]

Hi all

After reading back comments not only here but on other website includine CM and their assocaited press, the same old statement seems to rear its head every time

No one is denying that public transport is crowded in brisbane, while its not the best, its not the worst around.

We can all whinge about it, and as a Property Developer and Town Planner, i understand the issue Translink / Govt / Local Councils are facing with regards to issues of public transport.

As a commuter, i know how annoying public transport is, it takes me 3 buses to get to work in the morning, and unfortunately by the time i finish work there are no buses and i have to take the train home. For where i live the train is the worst possible solution to getting home as its 4km from my home.

I keep reading here about how we need to increase the number of train services, and given the lead time it takes to build and test each new train, other solutions are needed.

So i put it out there... stop whinging and same old comment about needing more train services and put forward other solutions to improve the public transport system in SE QLD. there has to be more solutions to simply adding more vehicles to the track. or else its just going to keep being congested and we will never have a solution.

[jason]

To get the ball rolling here are a few that may help:

1. Re-routing all Gold Coast and Beenleigh Express Services during peak periods via Ipswich Line. therefore less services will need to use the congested bridge through south bank

2. Increasing / moving all stabling yards to satelite locations ( similar to bus depots in brisbane ) to have the services start where they are needed, not at bowen hills then travelling ( this only benefits am peak services )

3. introducing turn back systems ( similar to Bondi Junction ), this would allow services to return to the CBD during peak pm services faster because it would be as if the train was continuing on not terminating and changing direction ( but would require property resumption in and around stations for loop )

4. provide discounted / free transport services ( this one has shown its head before by others and is a great idea ) for anyone willing to before am peak periods

any other ideas?

[mufreight]

Yes Jason with you expertise you would be right at home working for Translink or Minister Mickel or maybe you already do, that might explain both the tone of your posts and the present overload of misinformation (spin) eminating from both Translink and the Ministers office.
Cheers

[stephenk]

To get the ball rolling here are a few that may help:

1. Re-routing all Gold Coast and Beenleigh Express Services during peak periods via Ipswich Line. therefore less services will need to use the congested bridge through south bank

Whilst not a bad idea. It could then take away potential capacity increases from the Ipswich Line. It would also increase the journey time to people travelling to/from South Bank on Gold Coast/Beenleigh expresses.  It may also increase conflicting movements on the flat junction at Roma St (more of a problem in pm peak), but would reduce the number of conflicting movements at Park Rd. However, the idea should be taken into consideration.

2. Increasing / moving all stabling yards to satelite locations ( similar to bus depots in brisbane ) to have the services start where they are needed, not at bowen hills then travelling ( this only benefits am peak services )

This is a very good idea, and would benefit both am and pm peak services. Whilst maintenance should be concentrated at Mayne, the vast majority of trains do not need to be stabled there. An example of the problems caused by stabling at Mayne is that an am peak Ferny Grove to Roma Street train has to cross the path of three other tracks (Up Main, Down Main, Down Suburban) when being taken out of service at Roma Street. Likewise a pm peak service from Roma Street to Ferny Grove has to cross the path of two services (Up Main, Down Main) to enter service. The use of satellite stabling and improved turnbacks would significantly improve track capacity.

3. introducing turn back systems ( similar to Bondi Junction ), this would allow services to return to the CBD during peak pm services faster because it would be as if the train was continuing on not terminating and changing direction ( but would require property resumption in and around stations for loop )

Bondi Junction is not a loop terminus. It was originally a badly operated reverse in siding terminus, and replaced with a reverse in platforms/scissors crossover terminus at great cost.
Edit: Track layout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bondi_Junction_track_diagram.svg

However, I do agree that reversing capacity is a major factor in improving track capacity. For high capacity reversing at the end of the line, then a two track/platform terminus with a double crossover should suffice for most QR/Translink lines. Two tracks all the way to the terminus helps, and the lack of this cripples the Ferny Grove Line amongst others.

Intermediate termini (such as Mitchelton and Manly) where trains reverse in one of two platforms also cripple the service. The use of a reversing siding (as at Beenleigh) or a 3rd platform track (as at Petrie) should be considered. These designs allow trains to reverse without impeding the flow of trains on the main running lines. It also allows for more terminus dwell time, allowing for a more reliable service. Many extra turnbacks are being constructed as part of Sydney's clearways project.

[brad C]

Hi Stephenk and Jason
Some fairly radical ideas proposed.
I confess that I am one of those long-winded wingers who are always proposing the same solutions on this post.
However, I guess I qualify for some dispensation, having used suburban trains in Brisbane since 1958 and seeing the roll out of several significant milestones in suburban rail travel over that period. I am also an avid observer of rail operations and enjoy a good critique.
I also enjoy sharing my observations on this web site and reading those of other bloggers and those who enjoy and promote rail travel.
Some of the challengers for commuter rail services in Brisbane as I see it are;
- the radial nature of branch lines, with the lack of connectivity
- the age and hence the engineering employed on some of our Branch lines, which ultimately affects performance
- the sharing of some of the busy corridors with freight and long disatance passenger movements
- the constrained nature of the inner city sections of the network and hence the frequency of services
- the changing nature of work particularly core hours
- population explosions in outlying areas, affecting loadings, rollingstock deployment and overall timetabling, coupled with poor investment in both infrastructure, rollingstock and human resources by successive Governments
- a major cultural problem in QR and Translink which enshrines secrecy, bureaucracy and a resistance to adopt contemporary customer focussed service and marketing principles.
There are some of these problems which are uncontrolled. Others may be fixed in time with injections of capital funds, whilst others, as suggested by this very web organisation continue to be ignored.

On the matter of your suggestions, I offer the following feedback:

Gold Coast and Beenleigh services via Sherwood

- There are important medical, educational, and recreational facilities located in the  Southbank area which are accessed by rail commuters. One must consider these when proposing diversions.
- In addition, there are considerations of freight movements on the western line and tennyson loop which need to continue, particularly if these are contract services.
- the service frequency now experienced on the 'inner beenleigh' with triplication operating from Kuraby, would be comprimised by re-routing to a unidirectional branch and presumably to the main lines from Sherwood to Roma Street
- there is much that can be done to improve and expand Ipswich and ultimately Springfield services which would increase utilisation rates for the existing and expanded quad. This would be compromised with the addition of southern traffic.
The ultimate answer to the inner south section is quadruplication from Park Road to Roma Street, with a duplicated Merivale Bridge or alternatively a supplementary route via tunnel or link to the CBD from Park Road and feeder services from Yeeronpilly to the western corridor.

Satellite Stabling Facilities

There has been significant investment in such facilities during the past decade with large yards in existence at Beenleigh, Ipswich, Caboolture and Nambour.
These are just that with basic cleaning and testing undertaken.
However, as a means of increasing outbound services to these satellite centres in recent times, there has been a decline in the quantum of rolling stock stabled to meet these early AM outbound services and one often witnesses 12 car empties of an early evening returning to Mayne.
Mayne also contains more comprehensive maintenance and servicing facilities as well as the car wash facilities at Normanby.
Undoubtedly there is a place for satellite stabling facilities as kindling for the network of a morning. However, there will always be a place for a centralised depot for maintenance, and as a means of serving the satellites first up. It is also interesting to see the number of starters of a morning that are fed by empties which terminate at Bowen Hills or Roma St.
Did you realise that extensive stabling yards and servicing facilites were constructed at Binda and Wulkuraka to serve the 1950s electrification scheme, which was later abandoned??

Turn back Facilities

Many of the turnback facilities previously used to service shorter services, particularly of a morning have been eliminated as a result of triplication (who remembers Sunnybank or Zillmere/Strathpine services from bygone times - no longer possible without severe disruptions to the network). However, it is amazing that a major junction such as Yeerongpilly is not serviced by additional platforms!!
Perhaps by progressive upgarding of track capacity, it would be possible to offer such short services through leap frogging expresses from the outer suburbs (possibly not popular with those outer commuters)

Other suggestions I would like to propose for discussions include:
- taking some of the fat out of the timetable (express services sometimes fail to make up significant time as they reach an intermediate stopping station and sit there as they are ahead of time) I have been in trains held up at Bowen Hills for 5 minutes of a morning, which arrive at Central only 1 minute late - a farce)
- a critical problem on the northside is the airport express services which demand headways and thus stifle the full utilisation of the northern quad.
As traffic increases over time, the mistake in not providing dedicated trackage to the airport will become more apparent
- an appreciation that peak hours are now extended both AM and PM (particularly if one adheres to the translink definition of evening peak (3.30pm - 7pm) with a corresponding smorgasbord of services to match this demand.
Thats my dissertation for today!!

[mufreight]

Nicely done BradC

[stephenk]

Other suggestions I would like to propose for discussions include:
- taking some of the fat out of the timetable (express services sometimes fail to make up significant time as they reach an intermediate stopping station and sit there as they are ahead of time) I have been in trains held up at Bowen Hills for 5 minutes of a morning, which arrive at Central only 1 minute late - a farce)

I have found the post March 2008 timetables to be slightly more reliable, but this is partially down to the timetable being padded out. A good example of this being that a few months ago I was on a Ferny Grove Line train which arrived at it's terminus 6 minutes early!

- a critical problem on the northside is the airport express services which demand headways and thus stifle the full utilisation of the northern quad.
As traffic increases over time, the mistake in not providing dedicated trackage to the airport will become more apparent
- an appreciation that peak hours are now extended both AM and PM (particularly if one adheres to the translink definition of evening peak (3.30pm - 7pm) with a corresponding smorgasbord of services to match this demand.
Thats my dissertation for today!!

As I wait 21 minutes for a train to Enoggera it does annoy me to see a relatively empty Airport and Doomben train taking up valuable  slots on the Suburban Lines through the core section. With sufficient trains (under construction), and infrastructure (when?) the Airport Express running every 15mins would not be a problem. The Suburban Lines can handle approx 20tph (and do in fact handle 19tph inbound from the Beenleigh/Gold Coast/Cleveland Lines in the am peak). If all of these lines were timetabled around a repeating 15 min peak timetable, then you could have 4tph Airport, 4tph Gold Coast 8tph Ferny Grove (currently 7tph), 8tph Beenleigh, 8tph Cleveland, and another 8tph to the North to share between Doomben, Shorncliffe, and empty trains in and out of Mayne (via Ferny Grove Line). As 20tph is a train every 3mins, this would result in 15min frequencies for the lines with 4tph, and alternating 6 and 9 min frequencies for the lines with 8tph. But this is where we run into a problem. The infrastructure of lines such as Ferny Grove, and Cleveland (due to single track sections, and no reversing sidings) cannot realistically support this service pattern. So unless infrastructure is improved then we will be left with the messy timetables that we have at present.

Getting onto infrastructure, can the infrastructure planners of SE Queensland only count in odd numbers (i.e. 1 and 3) ? How many other train systems keep building one track instead of two, and three instead of four? I am sick of seeing half-baked infrastructure projects.
Example 1 - Ferny Grove duplication. The track was duplicated for 3 inter-stations sections (Mitchelton to Keperra), with 2 rebuilt stations (Oxford Park and Grovely). Whilst improving reliability, it hasn't significantly  improved the capacity of the line. All that was needed was duplication on one more inter-station section (Keperra to Ferny Grove) and it would have increased the lines maximum capacity significantly. Yet this badly needed project is unlikely to happen until after 2012. If the whole project had been done in one go, then surely it would have cost less than completing the project in two stages?
Example 2 - Gold Coast line duplication. Why was this built single track in the first place? Did the State Governments planners not think that people might actually use their new train service? Compare this with Perth's new lines, built double track along the whole route, and with 300% higher service frequency!
Example 3 - Beenleigh line triplication. When Japan and the UK railways needed more capacity, did they build a third track? No, they built four! Triplication can allow extra services in one direction, but not the other. When we eventually get 15min off-peak services, someone is going to discover a slight problem!
Example 4 - Springfield line. Rumoured to be single track, and with no intermediate stations. Do the SE Queensland infrastructure planners not learn?
The point I'm trying to make is that when there is an infrastructure project it should be done properly. Double tracks all the way to termini, quad tracks on busy sections and where express services/freight services need to overtake/be overtaken, extra tracks at intermediate reversing points.

That's my rant for the day!

[mufreight]

Stephenk, like BradC you have pointed out the obvious, perhaps if the Government sidelined some of their so called experts and spin doctors and non performing or inadequate Ministers there would be more monet to be spent on actually providing the infrastructure and services that the Government is elected to provide, money would be saved by doing the job in one hit rather than a bit here and a bit later when the system becomes chaotic and unable to perform.
The examples that you have provided are valid, the Robina line could have saved tens of millions if built in one hit.

[O_128]

all i can say for the camcos line is lol.It is going to be a one track section. Just great great planning.