Brisbane: Bus Electric Rapid Transit (' Brisbane Metro ')

[ozbob]

Couriermail 15th January 2020 page 8

Condren no Metro fan

Patrick doesn't understand what the project is really about. 

[timh]

Couriermail 15th January 2020 page 8

Condren no Metro fan

Patrick doesn't understand what the project is really about.

I think sadly most of the general public don't understand.

There's that god-awful "Save the victoria bridge" Facebook page which is constantly pushing the agenda that Brisbane Metro is supposed to be a subway and that the current plan is bad because it is "just bendy buses serving the mayor's old ward". Also saying they desperately need to drive from West End to the city via Vic bridge, when the WJ bridge is not far away... 

I've had other friends who don't understand the difference between Brisbane Metro and Cross River rail, and think that Brisbane Metro IS CRR.

I've even had relatives who thought the Bikeway construction at Holland Park West was Brisbane Metro!

Patrick Condren can use all of that to his advantage unfortunately to make it seem like the Metro concept is bad when in reality, those in the know about this stuff are behind it 100% (IA, Railbot, RACQ, etc.)

As I've said before most of it is just the name. If BCC was just just real clear when opposition says "iTs jUsT bAnAnA bUseS" that yes, it is just banana buses BUT
-They're fully electric
-They come every 3 minutes
-It is simply a vehicle to allow for greater bus network reform
Then they'd have a much easier time rebutting this stuff.

[ozbob]

 

https://twitter.com/PatrickCondren/status/1217274219588808704

[verbatim9]

Inner city (ie City glider routes)? Unlikely. Too expensive.

Really? Other first world cities routinely do it?

I wouldn't mind it on the Blue Glider since it's dumb to build up West End so much but have a bus only solution, and Montague Rd would be easy to build along.
There's no shortage of road space on Ann St, and that could do with a good road diet.

I support the Bne Metro and it's potential bus network remodelling.

In the future SEQ plan that had extensive input last year. It was mentioned that a Surface LRT would replace the Glider route with in the next decade due  patronage growth along the route. Thus LRT will just compliment Bne Metro.

[Gazza]

Yeah exactly, its not one or the other, and the lines serve different catchment areas.

Obviously do the metro first, and there are other inner city PT projects id like to see done first too such as the busway missing link at Windsor.

But certainly in a few years time, you could do a class B type LRT. The LRT could use the remaining two lanes on the Victoria Bridge, and would only share with buses.
I'd probably run down one side of Elizabeth st, and reduce it from 4 lanes to 2. It can then serve Albert St Station, Riverside, then along Eagle St to Ann Street, through the valley and onto Skyring terrace.

It's a 7.5km long system, so should be doable for under $1b.

[timh]

Yeah exactly, its not one or the other, and the lines serve different catchment areas.

Obviously do the metro first, and there are other inner city PT projects id like to see done first too such as the busway missing link at Windsor.

But certainly in a few years time, you could do a class B type LRT. The LRT could use the remaining two lanes on the Victoria Bridge, and would only share with buses.
I'd probably run down one side of Elizabeth st, and reduce it from 4 lanes to 2. It can then serve Albert St Station, Riverside, then along Eagle St to Ann Street, through the valley and onto Skyring terrace.

It's a 7.5km long system, so should be doable for under $1b.

Gotta agree with everything here! I support a city glider tram, but I definitely think it's much farther away than this election cycle. Fed street to Truro street busway is a big one to come first imo

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[James]

Brisbane really doesn't have particularly narrow roads so I'm not sure why you keep saying that.
And clearly Vienna and Melbourne aren't the only places. What about virtually any medium to large German or French city, a few north american ones.
And sydney.

I should have clarified - it is Brisbane's CBD streets which are narrower. See: http://blogs.slq.qld.gov.au/jol/2010/09/30/brisbanes-city-streets/
"Governor Gipps ... saw no greater future for Brisbane Town ... [and] ordered the streets back to 20 metres in width..."
Bear in mind this is 20m property boundary to property boundary, in reality once you have 3m footpaths, kerb & channel you are looking at an actual road area of about 14m. Just watch BCC buses squeeze down Adelaide Street in the PM peak - it is tight enough with buses.

By comparison, Melbourne's Hoddle Grid has streets with a width of 30m. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoddle_Grid
Likewise, Vienna has some lovely wide boulevards circulating and leading away from the CBD. These streets provide enough room for dedicated LRT running without much interaction with busy CBD traffic.

I should have said light rail rather than trams, obviously I'd want something that operates in a dedicated lane with signal priority.

It's quite an odd line of argument you used.
" the trams will just end up getting stuck in traffic unless they operate in Class A or B ROW anyway. I like trams, but unless you do it like the Gold Coast and run with adequate signal priority, there is no additional benefit compared to running buses."
Basically, all you said is that a crap tram implementation is no better than bus. Well duh.

And there's no room to fit a Class A or B ROW down Montague Road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.4813847,153.0045046,3a,35.5y,211.19h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxHs0nl6rvx-XunEN0PQevg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Likewise, all these German and French cities have much of their tram network in Class C ROW, and their main benefit comes from them being a legacy system, rather than the result of a well-costed business case and detailed evaluation. That they don't have to compete with cars tends to be a result of population density and cultural factors, neither of which exist in Brisbane.

[Gazza]

Legacy systems? A lot of the French systems are fairly new.

I think you could fit it down montague rd. Knock out the parking, and there you have it.

[timh]

Legacy systems? A lot of the French systems are fairly new.

I think you could fit it down montague rd. Knock out the parking, and there you have it.

Cr Sri was doing up designs for a proposal for a redesign of montague road with dedicated 24/7 buslanes for the city glider, 2 lanes for traffic, and dedicated bike paths. Exactly as you said, it involves removing the parking.

[James]

Cr Sri was doing up designs for a proposal for a redesign of montague road with dedicated 24/7 buslanes for the city glider, 2 lanes for traffic, and dedicated bike paths. Exactly as you said, it involves removing the parking.

Bus lanes are much easier to fit in as they can disappear at choke points or be used for left turns. They also run in the kerbside lane, which means boarding & alighting can occur from existing footpath bus stops.

LRT would need to run in the median, meaning access infrastructure (i.e. stations) would need to be in the middle of the road, or use a non-DDA compliant solution like they have in Melbourne where the tram stops and people cross (stopped) traffic to get to the footpath.

There is not enough room for tram tracks + stations on the Montague Road corridor without resumptions ($$$), and the non-DDA compliant solution wouldn't be permitted for new infrastructure.

[Gazza]

LRT would need to run in the median,

Why cant you have kerbside running? Or have the LRT on one side like on Surfers Paradise boulevard?

[#Metro]

Is the capacity of LRT even warranted in this corridor?

Why not just get a bigger bus and bus lanes?

[Gazza]

It's the same mindset as the GC basically.

Replacing with trams causes a bump in patronage that buses alone cannot achieve.

[City Designer]

Bear in mind this is 20m property boundary to property boundary, in reality once you have 3m footpaths, kerb & channel you are looking at an actual road area of about 14m. Just watch BCC buses squeeze down Adelaide Street in the PM peak - it is tight enough with buses.

Adelaide Street is a 13m carriageway in a 24m road reserve (5.5m verge each side).

For comparison Montague Road is a 12.5m carriageway in a 20.1m road reserve (3.8m verge each side), which is typical for older movement corridors in Brisbane.

[ozbob]

https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/public-transport/brisbane-metro/brisbane-metro-vehicle

Key features

The Metro vehicles will be an Australian-first, using tried and tested European technology that will help future-proof Brisbane's public transport network. Each vehicle will be 24.4 metres in length and 2.55 metres wide, with the capacity to carry 150 passengers in comfort and 180 passengers in event mode.

Other key features of the Metro vehicle include:

zero tailpipe emissions, battery electric operation
flash charging in under six minutes at the end of route
spacious bi-articulated design, providing three large open passenger areas
four large double doors along the length of the vehicle for quicker boarding
low-floor design from front to rear, providing a high level of accessibility
in-built USB charging points and on-board WiFi
passenger information displays and next stop audio and visual route information
separated driver's cabin
panoramic rear window, for taking advantage of city views
interior illuminated ceiling.

The Metro vehicle will also offer close-to-silent operation and provide a smooth, comfortable journey for passengers.

Next steps

Initially HESS and its partners will design and build a pilot Metro vehicle, which will be extensively tested in Brisbane. The Brisbane Metro pilot vehicle is expected to be ready for testing in 2020.

Following the successful trial of the pilot vehicle, Council will have the option to purchase 59 additional Metro vehicles, with services expected to commence in late 2023, subject to approvals.

[timh]

https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/public-transport/brisbane-metro/brisbane-metro-vehicle

Key features

The Metro vehicles will be an Australian-first, using tried and tested European technology that will help future-proof Brisbane's public transport network. Each vehicle will be 24.4 metres in length and 2.55 metres wide, with the capacity to carry 150 passengers in comfort and 180 passengers in event mode.

Other key features of the Metro vehicle include:

zero tailpipe emissions, battery electric operation
flash charging in under six minutes at the end of route
spacious bi-articulated design, providing three large open passenger areas
four large double doors along the length of the vehicle for quicker boarding
low-floor design from front to rear, providing a high level of accessibility
in-built USB charging points and on-board WiFi
passenger information displays and next stop audio and visual route information
separated driver's cabin
panoramic rear window, for taking advantage of city views
interior illuminated ceiling.

The Metro vehicle will also offer close-to-silent operation and provide a smooth, comfortable journey for passengers.

Next steps

Initially HESS and its partners will design and build a pilot Metro vehicle, which will be extensively tested in Brisbane. The Brisbane Metro pilot vehicle is expected to be ready for testing in 2020.

Following the successful trial of the pilot vehicle, Council will have the option to purchase 59 additional Metro vehicles, with services expected to commence in late 2023, subject to approvals.

What do you reckon 180 in "event mode" means? I'm assuming that just means with pax packed in like sardines, I doubt theyd do changes to the interior seating configuration

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[Cazza]

I'm sure this has been discussed and brought up countless times but out of curiosity, wouldn't longitudinal seating be a better for this vehicle (particularly for Metro 2 with a much higher and more frequent commuter turnover)? As mentioned by many, 150 people isn't the greatest of capacities and since most trips wouldn't be above 30 mins (approx. travel time 8MP-Roma St), there wouldn't be too much of an issue for people standing too long.

[SurfRail]

They should have capacities closer to 200 to be worth it - it's only whatever seating layout they are going with or DTMR / NHVR / other design limiting factors stopping it.

[aldonius]

Yeah that whole "event mode" thing is weird.

Pretty sure the 66 well exceeds vehicle design loads in the micro-peaks basically every day during UQ semester between Boggo Rd and Lakes 

[#Metro]

150 pax.

Should be 200 IMHO.

I wonder why they didn't go larger? Maybe they think they can run very high frequencies such as every 30 - 60s??

[aldonius]

At the numbers given I think we're being a little harsh on the Metro vehicles. Keep in mind that they're only, y'know, not that much longer than a regular bus. At "full" loading they'll be packing people in pretty densely!



   

...	G:Link Flexity 2	Brisbane Metro	QR NGR
Total Length Total Width Total Area Passengers (rated maximum) Passengers / sq m	43.5 m 2.65 m 115 sq m 309 pax 2.7 pax / sqm	24.4 m 2.55 m 62 sq m 180 pax 2.9 pax / sqm	147 m 2.7 m 397 sq m 964 pax 2.4 pax / sq m

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Monski1/status/1227358545328238593

[verbatim9]

Brisbanetimes.com.au---> Brisbane Metro costs go up as buses go down below the ground.

Brisbane Metro costs go up as buses go down below the ground

Tweaks to the Brisbane Metro underground bus station design beneath the Queensland Cultural Centre will push more buses underground past the station and add costs to the project already costed at $944 million.

The Queensland government on Wednesday afternoon agreed to consider making a contribution towards those additional costs once the design was finished.

Last year, the state government requested Brisbane City Council investigate other nearby options for the underground busway station for the metro.

Lord mayor Adrian Schrinner confirmed a final site had since been chosen with the state government for the underground busway station.

"The new underground metro station will be at the Cultural Centre. It will be located at the original proposed location that we put forward a number of years ago," Cr Schrinner said.

"What we are working through now with the state government is some tweaks to the design of that station.

"Those tweaks would potentially involve another (underground) portal for buses from West End to get into the metro station.

"The original proposal  was for the West End services to continue at surface level, with most services going underground. Now, we are now looking for opportunities for the West End services to go underground."

Several engineering options were being explored by the project team, Cr Schrinner said. Those design options and a request for a contribution towards those likely extra costs would be presented to the state government as soon as they were completed.

"I think that is a reasonable assumption to make," Cr Schrinner said.

"We had a fully-funded project ready to go. The state wanted some changes to that project. It is reasonable to expect that they put in some contribution."

On Wednesday morning, Cr Schrinner explained how an underground sewer pumping station under the Cultural Centre was being shifted to nearby Alexander Smith Park, where it will be placed 14 metres underground and the park replanted.

The sewage pumping station needs to be shifted to allow the underground bus station to be built, he said.

"Currently at the site of the underground metro station at the Cultural Centre there is an underground pumping station that needs to be relocated," he said.

The state government released new draft images of what South Brisbane's notorious Grey and Melbourne Streets intersection could look like if Brisbane Metro was moved to beneath the Convention Centre.

"The site is being relocated here and we rebuild the pumping station here and de-commission the old one and get on with building the underground Cultural Centre metro station.

"So this is an important $8.7 million package of early works that will enable the Brisbane Metro to go ahead."

The council is paying 80 per cent of the relocation costs and Queensland Urban Utilities the remaining 20 per cent.

The council has so far invested $115 million on the $944 million Brisbane Metro project, which Cr Schrinner said was scheduled to be completed by "the end of 2023".

"But that will ultimately depend on how quickly the state government reaches an agreement with us on the Cultural Centre station," he said.

Cr Schrinner said "other parts of the project" were being completed while the state government and the Brisbane Metro project team evaluate changes to the underground busway station.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said there was now good collaboration with the council, which had agreed to "progress a design to underground West End bus services".

"Being able to take buses off the above-ground road network would be a good outcome," Mr Bailey said.

"We're ready to discuss any funding implications with council on what is currently a $944 million project once the final design work is complete."

[Cazza]

Columbia showing us how it's done

[verbatim9]

Columbia showing us how it's done

They have doors on both sides of the vehicle too for the vehicle to be compliant for both Island platforms, as well as kerbside platforms.

[timh]

I think sending the city glider under ground is a good plan. Even if this new solution is more expensive, I'm just glad to see the state and council agreeing and getting stuff done

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[verbatim9]

Me too, It's good that they are working together for a fully underground solution in the area.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> 'Is it a bus, tram or train?': What is Brisbane Metro and do we need it?

f there is one thing politicians love, it is announcing major road and transport projects that they know will strike a chord with frustrated motorists sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic and commuters crammed in packed public transport.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has promised Brisbane "congestion-busting" commuter car parks at two Logan train stations and intersection upgrades.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk assures her government's Cross River Rail is a done deal.

And lord mayor Adrian Schrinner vows to bring us Brisbane Metro - if he is elected on March 28.

So what exactly is it? How will it make our lives easier? And will it actually happen?

What is the Brisbane Metro?

The almost $1 billion Brisbane Metro project will take hundreds of the council's yellow-and-blue buses off the road and replace them with mega-buses.

The aim is to better link the suburbs and city with bigger and more frequent services.

More buses will move into underground tunnels to ease peak-hour gridlocks.

Sixty new electric buses - each with a capacity of 150 people - will run across 21 kilometres of existing busway every three minutes during peak hour.

They will be 24 metres long and split into three carriages.

The buses will run around the clock on weekends and for at least 20 hours on weekdays.

The new Metro will be split into two parts and include 18 stations and 11 interchanges.

One route will run from Eight Mile Plains, on the southern outskirts of metropolitan, Brisbane to Roma Street in the CBD.

The other route will link the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital in the inner-north to the University of Queensland St Lucia campus.

How is it different from Cross River Rail?

While the Metro is separate to the state government's Cross River Rail project, the two will share interchanges at Boggo Road and Roma Street.

The Cross River Rail will be a 10.2-kilometre rail line from Dutton Park to Bowen Hills, which includes 5.9 kilometres of tunnel under the Brisbane River and CBD.

Brisbane Metro services are expected to start running by the end of 2023, a year before Cross River Rail.

Why are they calling it a "Metro" if it is a big bus?

Both Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries tell us a metro is an underground railway system but the Brisbane Metro is essentially a fancy banana bus – one that bends as it navigates corners – and lord mayor Adrian Schrinner refuses to use the b-word.

Three-and-a-half years ago, then lord mayor Graham Quirk announced a $1.54 billion high-frequency subway that would be "rubber-tyred" and run on tracks.

The original transport proposal came during the 2016 council election and drew criticism from the Labor state government for competing with Cross River Rail.

A year later the LNP council admitted it would be looking at a "high-capacity bus" instead.

Cr Schrinner thinks it doesn't really matter what you call it.

"I think there's often discussion of what type of vehicle is it. Is it a bus? Is it a tram? Is it a train? I don't think that's important. I think moving people effectively is important," he has previously said.

Swiss manufacturers Hess, with local support by Volgren in Eagle Farm, will build the fleet of electric buses.

Hess built 20 buses, the same kind to be rolled out in Brisbane, for the French city of Nantes last year.

Swiss-Swedish power company ABB's fast chargers will power the vehicles.

The buses will have batteries mounted on the roofs that can be charged in 20 seconds while passengers are embarking and disembarking. It takes about five minutes to fully recharge the battery at terminal stations.

The pilot vehicle is expected to be ready for testing in Brisbane this year.

Do we actually need Brisbane Metro?

While Brisbane may not compare to the infamous Sydney gridlock, peak hour is getting worse.

Frustrated motorists on Brisbane's busiest roads are facing peak-hour journeys with average speeds dropping below 20km/h.

Full buses are driving past key stops as students and professionals vie for space on popular routes.

Brisbane Metro was one of just six projects in Australia deemed "high priority" by the independent body Infrastructure Australia in 2018.

The Brisbane Metro will help to alleviate the strained public transport system, says traffic engineering expert Associate Professor Jonathan Bunker from Queensland's University of Technology.

"The busway is at capacity basically. The Cultural Centre is the bottleneck and they can't push many more buses through there during peak times," he says.

"The big picture is to make better use of the busways. The main ways Brisbane Metro is intending to do that is by fixing up infrastructure problems on both sides of Victoria Bridge.

"Most people who know Brisbane can picture all of those buses queued along the Victoria Bridge. Putting the station and tunnel underground will improve that."

What new and improved infrastructure will the project bring?

Brisbane Metro may run on existing busways, but the council has promised a series of infrastructure updates it says will halve travel times.

BCC has committed $644 million and the federal government $300 million, to fund the $944 million project.

The Victoria Bridge will eventually be closed to cars and converted to a green bridge but the council is yet to set a date for that.

A 200-metre bus tunnel will be built under Adelaide Street to "declutter" the thoroughfare. Cr Schrinner says there will be 50 fewer buses in peak hour on Adelaide Street as they go underground.

A new depot will be built at Rochedale to house the metro fleet, after the council resumed the land of four private properties on School Road.

What happens if Labor wins?

On March 28, Brisbane residents will vote for the city's lord mayor.

Labor hopeful and former television reporter Patrick Condren says if elected he will "seriously review the future of the Metro project".

"It's already several million dollars over budget, which is absolutely extraordinary, and (in) these difficult financial times, can the residents and ratepayers of Brisbane afford this sort of overrun?" he said in January.

Mr Condren has said light rail would be better for the city.

The council's LNP administration has been at loggerheads with the Labor state government over the project for years.

Plans ground to a halt in mid-2019 when the two governments fought about where the new underground station would be built in South Brisbane.

The council originally wanted to build the station below the Cultural Centre, but the state government was not keen on that idea.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey sent the council back to the drawing board and said the station must be relocated to under the Brisbane Convention and Exhibition Centre.

Cr Schrinner accused the government of digging in its heels, not giving approvals and trying to weaken the council's LNP administration ahead of the March council election.

After months of delays, Cr Schrinner announced this month that the station would be built at the Cultural Centre with a few "tweaks".

"Those tweaks would potentially involve another (underground) portal for buses from West End to get into the Metro station," he said.

Brisbane Metro timeline

January 2016 - Former lord mayor Graham Quirk announced a $1.54 billion high-frequency subway system, which would be "rubber-tyred" and run on tracks and link Woolloongabba to Herston

March 2017 - The Metro system became two routes and the overall cost reduced from $1.54 billion to less than $1 billion

April 2017 – Council's then public transport chairman Adrian Schrinner said Metro could eventually extend to Chermside, Carindale and Springwood

March 2018 – The Brisbane Metro was listed as one of six "high priority" projects by Infrastructure Australia

April 2018 - The Brisbane Metro draft design report, including the first look at the Metro Cultural Centre station, was released

September 2018 - The new design for the Victoria Bridge was announced, reducing the number of Metro and bus lanes from four to three while allocating space for a "green" bridge to improve cyclist access into the city from South Bank

October 2018 - Owners of four properties in Brisbane south willingly handed over their land to the council so it can build the Rochedale depot

February 2019 - Roadworks began to fix the 'dangerous, chaotic mess' of South Brisbane streets to prepare for Victoria Bridge to go green

May 2019 - The council announced a complete overhaul of Adelaide Street to coincide with the major project

June 2019 - The Brisbane Metro project was pushed back again

November 2019 - Electric vehicles were chosen to run on the Metro

February 2020 - The Cultural Centre was confirmed as the new South Brisbane station

Memo to Patrick Condren.   You clearly do not understand what the Brisbane Metro is. 
It is bi-articulated electric buses operating on an improved busway network (a Labor built asset). 
It is a top priority project at IA and has the full support of the State Labor Government and Federal Coalition Government.   
The project will optimise the busways by fixing the mess that is the Cultural Centre and Victoria bridge particularly.
It will free up route buses for the suburbs for feeders and cross suburban runs. 
I suggest you get on board the ' big ' buses or you will be left behind ...

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1229060034736246784

[ozbob]

Condren whines that the project is several millions of dollars over budget.

How much is his light rail going to cost?  $5 Billion ??

[Gazza]

Condren whines that the project is several millions of dollars over budget.

How much is his light rail going to cost?  $5 Billion ??

Devils Advocate, but if we did a West End to Tennerrife system i think it would be under 1.5b.

Other cities in Australia have done LRT at reasonable cost, it's just NSW gold plating and project management that led to their blowouts.

[ozbob]

Will cost a lot of money to do it at ground level because of all the underground utilities.  Same problem in Sydney.  Lesser problem on the Gold Coast - mainly through Surfers Paradise was the utility problem huge.

5$ billion might be an underestimate.

In any case, will cost a lot for what gain?  The bus network is the priority.  How many times has labor gone to BCC Votes with light rail and failed?

Last campaign I had a meeting with Rod Harding and suggested he should go for 'big  buses on the busways', exactly what Brisbane Metro has ended up as.  No, ignored what I suggested and again went for light rail, and of course ' Free Fare Fridays'  which bombed badly ...

[timh]

Will cost a lot of money to do it at ground level because of all the underground utilities.  Same problem in Sydney.  Lesser problem on the Gold Coast - mainly through Surfers Paradise was the utility problem huge.

5$ billion might be an underestimate.

As an election strategy for 2020 I think West End - Teneriffe light rail won't work for Condren. It will definitely be more expensive than LNP metro plan, and it will run into the same NIMBY problems that Brisbane Metro is meeting regarding closure of the Victoria Bridge to cars. There's a very vocal advocate group online right now pushing for an inner city light rail, but AFAIK they want to keep Victoria Bridge open to cars for "residents' historic use" of the bridge, so they want the original "Paris Style Subway" that Quirk used to prattle on about, ie. underground light rail through Cultural Centre. Hugely expensive.

At present he doesn't seem to have any Public Transport policy aside from "BRISBANE METRO BAD" and "SCHRINNER SPEND MUCH MONEY BAD". I'm not trying to be partisan here though, don't get me wrong. Just saying he's not presented any meaningful alternative to the LNP plan

[ozbob]

I hope Patrick Condren livens up the BCC Votes campaign with a mono-rail plan.  That would be cool ... 

[ozbob]

Will cost a lot of money to do it at ground level because of all the underground utilities.  Same problem in Sydney.  Lesser problem on the Gold Coast - mainly through Surfers Paradise was the utility problem huge.

5$ billion might be an underestimate.

As an election strategy for 2020 I think West End - Teneriffe light rail won't work for Condren. It will definitely be more expensive than LNP metro plan, and it will run into the same NIMBY problems that Brisbane Metro is meeting regarding closure of the Victoria Bridge to cars. There's a very vocal advocate group online right now pushing for an inner city light rail, but AFAIK they want to keep Victoria Bridge open to cars for "residents' historic use" of the bridge, so they want the original "Paris Style Subway" that Quirk used to prattle on about, ie. underground light rail through Cultural Centre. Hugely expensive.

At present he doesn't seem to have any Public Transport policy aside from "BRISBANE METRO BAD" and "SCHRINNER SPEND MUCH MONEY BAD". I'm not trying to be partisan here though, don't get me wrong. Just saying he's not presented any meaningful alternative to the LNP plan

Yo.  He has to outline how he will reform the bus network without the ' Metro '. 

I think it has been a very empty campaign so far from both sides.  Just a series of memes on twitter ..   

[verbatim9]

Brisbanetimes----> Brisbane Metro could be cool – if it gets more than a ghost of a chance

Brisbane Metro could be cool – if it gets more than a ghost of a chance

Ghost trains haunt the Paris Metro and they're really cool. I caught one last week, riding it out to Dupleix, an inner-city borough near the Eiffel Tower where I'd heard rumours of the existence of an Australian cafe serving up flat whites, Vegemite soldiers and avo toast.

Don't you judge me.

Metro systems in cities such as Paris  work very well in moving millions of people around vast mega-cities very quickly.
Metro systems in cities such as Paris work very well in moving millions of people around vast mega-cities very quickly.

The subway train to Dupleix floated into the station with an unfamiliar hum and the doors sprang open automatically. No big deal, you think, until you've missed your stop on the older Paris metro cattle carts because you didn't realise you had to manually crank open the door yourself.

Did I mention that you're not to judge me?

It was early and the carriage was almost deserted, affording a view up and down the six cars that turned my head inside out like an old sock when I realised there was no driver. The front of the subway train was just a clear window opening up on the tracks in front of us.

Cue Vincent Price voice: "The train was driving itself!"

And maybe throw in some spooky Vincent Price villain laughter at this point too, because that spooky ass train deserved it.

I doubt Brisbane's metro system, composed entirely of bendy buses, will seem anywhere as awesome, but it could still be, you know, kind of cool – if the nuffs-nuffs from the state government would just get out of the way and let Brisbane City Council do its thing.

Lydia Lynch's weekend explainer on how the Metro plugs into the other big-ticket public transport projects currently tearing up the city was a fascinating read from the front carriage of the ghost train in Paris, which was where, I kid you not, I read it.

I've done a lot of metro time recently. In Seoul as well as Paris, and when those things work they're incredible. They can move millions of people around vast mega-cities a hell of a lot faster than I can drive into town from my vanilla-flavoured southside ghetto.

But of course, they work because mega-cities have the population size and density to support them. Brisbane doesn't.

That's why it looks a little underwhelming when you look at the map of where the lines will run. It almost feels like "why bother?".

But it's worth doing because every long journey begins with the first step, and the creation of a workable mass transit system isn't just critical to the future of a gridlocked city like the one we now live in, it's also another step towards saving our worthless skins from climate change.

It could be that the Labor Party's candidate for lord mayor has a much a better plan for the Metro than the comparatively modest offerings of Adrian Schrinner (spoiler alert, he doesn't), but Brisbane traffic meltdown is so bad that we don't really have time for these guys to play their usual stupid games.

Just get it done. Build it out. And one day maybe we'll have really cool ghost buses humming around the city like sci-fi artefacts.

[Gazza]

5$ billion might be an underestimate.

Bob its not gonna cost more than CRR.

[ozbob]

^ depends on the size.  But it would certainly cost several billions even for a minimal line.  Time you factor in the vehicles, depot, works etc.

But light rail in BNE is not going to happen anytime soon.

The point is the Brisbane Metro is underway and needs to go to completion.

I think Condren has a snowflakes chance in hell if he rolls out light rail (yet again).

After the Brisbane Metro is bedded down, the next thing will be a true Metro - heavy rail, driverless trains, probably on a west <> east alignment first, then expanded.

[Gazza]

Why would it cost several billions though?

Both CRR and Metro will feature station boxes and tunnel portals in the middle of streets, so the service relocation argument would apply to them too.

Sydney, with all its mismanagement, gold plating and dealing with Australias oldest streets was still $3b for 13km.

Time you factor in the vehicles, depot, works etc.

GC light rail stage $1.6b included the rolling stock and Depot.
Sydney light rail $3b included the rolling stock and Depot (It had to due to segregation from the Inner West LRT)
Canberra Light rail was $675m including rolling stock and depot.


But you're saying a 7km system from New Farm to Tennerrife would cost more than those three systems put together!

Righto.


Don't get me wrong, I agree Metro and CRR are the priority for the inner city, but I would say worst case would be 1.5b, given Qld has more institutional knowledge in terms of building and expanding LRT than NSW.

[ozbob]

So you agree at least $1.5 billion.  I reckon at least $2 billion, because of the problem with the underground utilities.  It is a very significant issue.