Brisbane: Bus Electric Rapid Transit (' Brisbane Metro ')

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Team_Quirk/status/991170686923169792

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane Metro will be publicly owned and operated

BRISBANE Metro will be publicly owned and operated, Brisbane City Council announced this morning.

Public and Active Transport chairman Adrian Schrinner told his Tuesday committee meeting the council's own Transport for Brisbane would operate the $944 million Metro.

Cr Schrinner said using TFB or a private operator to operate the Metro were compared in a non-scored, qualitative assessment as part of a business case and the council bus operator came out on top.

"In terms of financials it was lineball but in terms of customer experience it (TFB) was definitely a clear winner all the way through," he said.

"At the moment, TFB will be operating both bus services and Metro services and it will be a single contract for managing those."

He said outsourcing had been shown to work for the Gold Coast Light Rail but this was a different model.

Cr Schrinner said the State Government's TransLink and Transport for Brisbane already intersected to deliver Brisbane's public transport.

"You don't want a situation where council's responsibility stops with buses and then Metro is a different operator."

"If you add an additional third party operator into that mix, then you get questions about if there's a problem, who do I call?"

Opposition Public and Active Transport spokesman Jared Cassidy asked Cr Schrinner where the buses would be made but Cr Schrinner said it was too early to know.

Cr Schrinner said they expected to go to market for the Metro vehicles for the design later this year, and wanted the market to come back with the best possible design.

"One of the things we're proposing to do is buy one vehicle upfront and put it though a rigorous testing process," he said.

"I'd prefer to buy one and discover there's problems with it rather than buy 60 and discover there's problems with them."

He said the final design of the Metro vehicle would dictate the design of the planned depot at Rochedale.

[#Metro]

"Qualitative, non-scored" what does that mean?

"Who do you call?" Who does BCC call when someone has an issue with the CityCat?

"different model" what, with Surfside buses feeding into the GLink light rail?

Translink was set up precisely to facilitate inter operator connectivity.

A fluff news announcement if you ask me. BCC cannot organise buses to the train station.

[achiruel]

"I'd prefer to buy one and discover there's problems with it rather than buy 60 and discover there's problems with them."

A reference to the ongoing #ngrfail perhaps?

[techblitz]

"Qualitative, non-scored" what does that mean?

it means just that.....basic qualitative comparison between the customer experiences of private operator routes and TFB routes.
All the business case assessors had to do was note the constant QR cancellations and then match up the private op bus-rail connections that were p%ssed  into the wind as a result.
In short....you can thank QR for hijacking the customer experience for bus to rail users on private operator routes eg: check the 691 this morning.
Add in translink as well for their archaic timetabling practices where apparently the traffic at 11am is the same as 4pm.(hopefully they have moved away from this permanently)

The only thing that can counter the bus-rail shemozzle that private operators have to deal with.....is the SE busway bus jam......but metro is designed to nip that straight in the bud.

[#Metro]

New article up at BT. BCC doesn't know what the vehicle will look like.

Brisbane Metro plans progress, but vehicle type is unknown
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-metro-plans-progress-but-vehicle-type-is-unknown-20180502-p4zcz9.html

Absolute minimum should be 150 pax on the bus, but try and get the largest possible bus. Trains and trams already fill up to max capacity during peak hour, and the bus will have to deal with lots of interchanging passengers - as big as possible please!

[Cazza]

I'm assuming the vehicles will have subway style seating (i.e seats facing inwards)?

[HappyTrainGuy]

"I'd prefer to buy one and discover there's problems with it rather than buy 60 and discover there's problems with them."

A reference to the ongoing #ngrfail perhaps?

Any real project really. Even with the 260/180's there were lots of issues with them here (not related to the air conditioning unit sizing) despite them being almost identical to those being in operation in Perth.

Bus operators have done the same here in previous years with them usually getting a trial vehicle that they can use. Sometimes they make small mods then ask for a big order - such as the new optimus buses that are now running across seq.

[verbatim9]

^^Agreed the longest vehicle possible 150pax plus.

I also think even if a diesel hybrid is chosen. The speed will be reduced from 90kph to 70-80kph just due to length of the vehicle and stability control. Cost wise by the time you add the fuel depot and purchasing plus delivery of the fuel as well as buying hybrid vehicles; The cost may work out evenly when compared with installing overhead wiring and buying electric vehicles.

Not to mention the impact on the environment and local air pollution. The idea is to move away from combustion vehicles, not buy more! It would demonstrate poor leadership from the Council if diesel vehicles were to be chosen.

For people advocating for these vehicles to be run on city streets. My understanding it will be contained to the  corridor chosen until future  corridors are identified and built. Hence elecfication is possible.

I also had a reply from the Metro team that they would need to close the Busway for extended amounts of time for electrification. This can be done during the 2 months December and January, Easter and other off peak times such as evenings. It also needs to be closed for extensive periods anyway for the work they have planned.


I encourage everyone to take a second look and support electrification. This will also future proof the corridor for any further enhancements down the track, as electrification would be already installed.

I also do support rapid recharge technology as partial electrification work would be retrofitted to the corridor adding to future proof measures. But one has to look at the weight of the vehicle due.to the size of battery impacting the corridor and speed of the vehicle with a full load.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane Metro plans progress, but vehicle type is unknown

A single Brisbane Metro vehicle could be on Brisbane roads and busways as early as next year.

That number will expand to 60 by 2023, but exactly what the metro will look like is still unknown.

It is also unclear how long the vehicles will be, how many seats they will have or how they will be powered.

The almost $1 billion Brisbane Metro project, to be operated by Transport for Brisbane, will be a high-frequency public transport system that would link Eight Mile Plains to Roma Street and Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital to the University of Queensland.

The 60 metro vehicles, each with a capacity of 150 people, would run across 21 kilometres of existing busway infrastructure at a frequency of every three minutes in peak periods.

Brisbane City Council's public transport chairman Adrian Schrinner said the council would start looking at vehicle options at the end of the year.

"We know things like how many people we need to carry, approximately what length it will be, [but] it may be that an operator comes in and says we can carry 150 people with a shorter vehicle, so the length may change, various things may change," he said.

Cr Schrinner also said all power types from diesel through to hybrid and electric would be considered.

When it comes to purchasing the metro vehicles the council will buy just one to start.

"One thing we've discovered with various vehicles that Transport for Brisbane operate, specifications for overseas don't always translate into the Australian or the Brisbane context," Cr Schrinner said.

"When we go out to market, probably later this year, we will be doing a full scan of what is here at the moment but also what is in the pipelines

"I'd prefer to buy one, discover there are problems with it up front than buy 60 and discover there are problems."

Cr Schrinner said the vehicles would have a separated compartment for the driver, all-door boarding and be low-access vehicles.

Brisbane Metro timeline

    January 2016 - Graham Quirk announced $1.54 billion high-frequency subway system which would be rubber-tyred and run on tracks and link Woolloongabba to Herston
    November 2016 – The council considered a driverless Brisbane Metro
    February 2017 – Council's public transport chairman Adrian Schrinner admitted in a committee meeting the council was looking at a high-capacity bus system instead
    March 2017 - The metro system was now two routes and the overall cost has reduced from $1.54 billion to less than $1 billion. Metro 1 is between Eight Mile Plains and Roma Street and Metro 2 is between the University of Queensland and Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital. It was revealed the vehicles were not limited to tracks and would run across 21 kilometres of existing busway.
    March 2017 - Graham Quirk described the vehicles as not being limited to set tracks but refused to call them buses.
    March 2017 – Council looked at two concepts as it finalised its business case – the "metro" seems more likely to be a 30-metre electric powered bus
    April 2017 – Council's public transport chairman Adrian Schrinner said metro could eventually extend to Chermside, Carindale and Springwood
    May 2017 – Metro business case revealed the services would be non-stop on weekends and at least 20 hours on weekdays.
    October 2017 – Council announced it would buy land in South Brisbane and Rochedale to move the Brisbane Metro project to the next step
    March 2018 – Land purchases at South Brisbane and Rochedale delayed
    March 2018 – The Brisbane Metro was listed as one of six "high priority" projects by Infrastructure Australia
    April 2018 - Brisbane Metro draft design report, including the first look at Metro Cultural Centre station, released
    May 2018 - Transport for Brisbane announced at the operator of Brisbane Metro

[achiruel]

What about solar diesel hybrid? I'm sure I read something about such a vehicle recently, although I can't find the article just now, it had the normal diesel-hybrid arrangement but added solar panels to charge the batteries during daylight hours as well.

Edit: surely that can't be right about the buses running only every 3 minutes in peak? 150 x 20 per hour = 3,000pphd. That's clearly nowhere near enough!

[verbatim9]

What about solar diesel hybrid? I'm sure I read something about such a vehicle recently, although I can't find the article just now, it had the normal diesel-hybrid arrangement but added solar panels to charge the batteries during daylight hours as well.

Edit: surely that can't be right about the buses running only every 3 minutes in peak? 150 x 20 per hour = 3,000pphd. That's clearly nowhere near enough!

The word "diesel" seems to be resonating alot these days to power Qld's trains and buses. Quite strange really!

[aldonius]

Solar panels on vehicles aren't much use. Better all round to just have batteries and buy however many MW of renewable power.

[300LA]

Edit: surely that can't be right about the buses running only every 3 minutes in peak? 150 x 20 per hour = 3,000pphd. That's clearly nowhere near enough!

I've heard a rumor recently that the "metro" will be run in addition to many of the existing bus routes. I.e. only a few, not all, of the existing busses will be swapped out.

I believe thats how they're getting their 22k figure used in all the marketing.

It then makes you wonder how the system will operate? There's no point swapping to a trunk and feeder system if the majority of bus routes continue to use the busway...

[Gazza]

I think the only other routes using it would, in themselves, trunk routes for other feeders, the 140 for example.

[aldonius]

Continue/terminate logic:

- BUZes: get to go to the city, but once their combined frequency on non-busway corridors hits 5-minutely, start using artics. (By those rules, Gympie/Mains/OCR need to get Metrofied ASAP.)
- Other routes: if the route is consistently full when it gets to the busway, it gets to continue to the city. The less full it is, the less likely it is to keep going.

[#Metro]

I believe thats how they're getting their 22k figure used in all the marketing.

It then makes you wonder how the system will operate? There's no point swapping to a trunk and feeder system if the majority of bus routes continue to use the busway...

There are two metro lines overlapping, so a bus every 1.5 minutes. If the pphd = 22 000, then that is:

60 min/bus every 1.5 min = 40 buses per hour.

To meet 22000 pphd, divide by 40 buses per hour

So that is 550 pax per bus.

There isn't a bus I am aware of that is capable of holding 550 pax.

150 pax per bus is doable, possibly 200 or 256 if you take the maximum capacity tri-arctic bus https://newatlas.com/autotram-extra-grand-worlds-largest-bus/24053/


Let's say we have 250 pax/bus then x 40 buses/hr = 10 000 pphd.

[verbatim9]

Wow! That bus could even negotiate Ernie's roundabout at the bottom of the ramp at RWBH.

I believe thats how they're getting their 22k figure used in all the marketing.

It then makes you wonder how the system will operate? There's no point swapping to a trunk and feeder system if the majority of bus routes continue to use the busway...

There are two metro lines overlapping, so a bus every 1.5 minutes. If the pphd = 22 000, then that is:

60 min/bus every 1.5 min = 40 buses per hour.

To meet 22000 pphd, divide by 40 buses per hour

So that is 550 pax per bus.

There isn't a bus I am aware of that is capable of holding 550 pax.

150 pax per bus is doable, possibly 200 or 256 if you take the maximum capacity tri-arctic bus https://newatlas.com/autotram-extra-grand-worlds-largest-bus/24053/



Let's say we have 250 pax/bus then x 40 buses/hr = 10 000 pphd.

[Gazza]

Check out this 4 door ｌｏｎｇｂｏｉ I rode in Malmo 4 days ago:

[verbatim9]

^^It's a good design. I like it over the traditional bus design.

[burgo]

Check out this 4 door ｌｏｎｇｂｏｉ I rode in Malmo 4 days ago:

They have driver compartments on both ends don't they? Would they be required for our Metro given the turnback facilities on the metro lines? Could be a saving had there.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

They have driver compartments on both ends don't they?

No, they're single-ended.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane Metro gets $300 million federal funding boost

Brisbane's lord mayor Graham Quirk has admitted the $944 million Brisbane Metro would have been temporarily shelved if the federal government had not committed to a significant funding boost.

Cr Quirk said it was "great news" that $300 million would be allocated to the transport project in Tuesday's federal budget.

"We needed to get a commitment. If we didn't get that commitment this year then it [the metro] would have simply have had to go on ice for a year, or we would have had to look at some other arrangements," he said.

"But I don't believe that it would have gone ahead."

Brisbane City Council budgeted almost $430 million in capital expenditure for between the 2017-18 and 2021-21 financial years.

Almost $50 million was budgeted for 2017-18, but the council's third budget review, which will be discussed at chambers on Tuesday will reveal costs being rolled over.

The budget review, seen by Fairfax Media, showed $20.7 million transferred to the 2019-20 financial year.

Cr Quirk said the money had not been spent because the council was yet to secure two parcels of state government-owned land that was crucial for the project.

"That's the money we need to get those two pieces of land, the most expensive of those is at South Brisbane and so I've again written to the Premier recently about that," he said.

Opposition transport spokesman Jared Cassidy said the Quirk administration was taking the federal government for a ride.

"They have stitched up a deal to get $300 million in federal money for a project that doesn't even have buses, nor a design for buses," Cr Cassidy said.

"Council's own capital contribution to this project has been delayed by two years now which clearly shows the project is either totally off track or this administration can't find the money.

"Graham Quirk's metro has been a shambles since it was thought up on one weekend in January 2016 in a panicked response to Labor's plan for modern light rail in Brisbane."

Cr Quirk said, despite receiving the needed one-third of extra funding from the federal government, he would not rule out additional money coming from the state government.

"We're always hopeful," he said.

"Particularly say in the case of the land. If they won't gift us the land we will sit down and negotiate.

"We also believe that it was fair and reasonable that other levels of government should share in the cost."

Cr Quirk said now the $300 million commitment had been made the council hoped to go to tender for some of the work in the early second half of this year.

"There's nothing to stop us now ... we're pretty keen to get on with this," he said.

RACQ spokesman Paul Turner welcomed the federal funding.

"Transport infrastructure and public transport spending has been lacking in Queensland in recent years so it's good to see we're getting our fair share," he said.

[achiruel]

I wonder if BCC has considered tri-articulated buses for the bus metro?

Maybe they'd help the capacity quite a bit?

[Gazza]

Reminder, there is a community session today 2 till 4 pm at Garden City Library
https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/whats-on/event/brisbane-metro-community-information-session-2?referrer=%2Fwhats-on%2Fsearch%3Fquery%3Dmetro



Have your say on the draft Design Report for Council's high-frequency, high-capacity public transport system — Brisbane Metro at one of the community information sessions.

[Mozz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Citaro

[SurfRail]

4 door artics are common as water over here in Italy where I am enjoying the bliss of a functional transport system.  Even Italy with its dodgy timekeeping and other issues is still doing much better than we are.

[ozbob]

Sunday Mail 13th May 2018

Quirk Metro is off the rails

[#Metro]

For the millionth time - Cross River Rail has not been ignored - it is fully funded already.

As for increasing council rates, what does Cr Cassidy think the purpose of paying rates is? Red Team's light rail plan would have also increased rates in the same manner - or were they going to use voluntary penal labour to build it? Rod Harding's LRT proposal was similar to proposals already rejected twice or thrice, and high cost, long lead time, and low benefit. The CityGlider has plenty of room for expanded capacity and I am not convinced that it justifies LRT at this point in time.

The problem with the Quirk rail metro proposal was that it was very expensive - so expensive that it had to be terminated before RBWH to keep within budget. The SEB can support a metro, however, if you go down that path then it would be best to package that with Cross River Rail as one project - something that the Queensland Government has rejected because to looks too much like Campbell Newman's BaT. And Red Team loathes Campbell Newman.

Using larger buses increases worker productivity multiple times. A bus that carries 1 staff for 65 people can now carry 1 staff for 250 people in peak hour. That frees up funds and staff to BUZ other routes in Brisbane, which will cost more but will also bring in more fare revenue.
The way the current bus network is operated - with almost every bus sent to the CBD - is inefficient and that is what is costing money.

If Cr Cassidy wants something to campaign on, campaign on extending CityGliders to Bulimba and the Centenary Suburbs. Even The Greens have come around to using superbuses.

[ozbob]

 

[techblitz]

I find it highly ironic that red team/unions are STILL pushing the 'job cuts tim nicholls is the devil' to the thousands that cross the merivale bridge daily.
You can see the massive advertisement just before south Brisbane station,outbound direction on the right.

Similar to this >>





The irony is that its targeting commuters 'crossing the river on rail' 
Want to play dirty Red Team/unions? Well LNP can also play dirty....

[#Metro]

Red Team is the party of Privatisation. That is historical fact.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/995533574395723777

[ozbob]

[Gazza]

Given the relocation of the stop, why isn't the whole station just called South Brisbane?

[matlock]

Given the relocation of the stop, why isn't the whole station just called South Brisbane?

Translink has done this before. Boggo Road for the busway (and future CRR train station), but Park Road for the existing train station, despite both being classified as one single station.

Translink should rename Boggo Road to Park Road and South Brisbane to Cultural Centre (I like the CC name more).

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> First glimpse at Brisbane's underground Metro station

The Brisbane Metro's underground station at the Cultural Centre, which will cost about a third of the metro's $944 million budget, has taken virtual shape, with an animation released on Tuesday.

Brisbane lord mayor Graham Quirk was joined by federal Urban Infrastructure and Cities Minister Paul Fletcher to release the artist's vision of the $315 million underground station at South Brisbane.

The project received a $300 million funding boost in the 2018-19 federal budget.

The council released the fly-through vision of the station despite still being in discussions with the state government about purchasing parcels of the required land.

The state government owns a 1600-square-metre lot on Grey Street at South Brisbane, which is crucial for the underground station to go ahead.

A 4.5-hectare block of land at Rochedale which is needed for bus depot is also owned by state government.

Cr Quirk said the council had asked the state government for the two parcels of land. which it would continue to pursue.

"We've certainly got the money in our budget if they want to negotiate with us to gift it, but if we have to buy it, so be it," he said.

The land is expected to cost council up to $30 million, with the parcel of land at South Brisbane being the most expensive.

Construction of the Brisbane Metro is expected to start in 2019 and be completed by 2022.

Cr Quirk said construction of any project was a "challenge".

"The timing around the construction process needs to be worked through but that will be all part of the detailed work we do over the coming period of time," he said.

The council is still exploring the possibility of turning Victoria Bridge into a green bridge, banning its use by general traffic.

Cr Quirk said the green bridge proposal still needed backing from the state government but had been supported by the RACQ.
Related Article
Brisbane Metro plans progress, but vehicle type is unknown
Brisbane Metro
Brisbane Metro plans progress, but vehicle type is unknown

Mr Fletcher said the Turnbull government looked forward to the project going ahead.

"It is so important in terms of allowing people to travel efficiently into and out of Brisbane as the city continues to grow," he said.

The appearance of the metro vehicles is also yet to be decided.

Cr Quirk said several vehicles were being looked at but confirmed they would be much bigger than the city's current buses.

"You can't drive it with a bus license, or a train license," he said.

[ozbob]

^

[STB]

Given the relocation of the stop, why isn't the whole station just called South Brisbane?

Translink has done this before. Boggo Road for the busway (and future CRR train station), but Park Road for the existing train station, despite both being classified as one single station.

Translink should rename Boggo Road to Park Road and South Brisbane to Cultural Centre (I like the CC name more).

Boggo Road was named due to the locals wanting it to be called 'Boggo Road', they didn't want it to be called 'Park Road'.  IMO, stuff the locals opinion, they aren't trained urban planners and no one will give a hoot in 100 years time, I'd just rename the entire busway station/railway station to 'Park Road' - Boggo Road is a horrid name, even though there's a historical attachment to it, and either decide to call the entire metro station/busway station/railway station with either South Brisbane or Cultural Centre and stick with it!  Personally I'd call the entire area South Brisbane, Cultural Centre isn't probably the best name for non-locals.

[matlock]

^ the only reason I would go with Cultural Centre over South Brisbane is that South Brisbane is easily confused for non-residents with Southbank. I personally liked Vulture Street!

Boggo Road at least sounds local. There are dozens of Park Roads around Brisbane so it's always been a little annoying and doesn't really help anyone identify the area. Especially with the new Ecosciences Precinct now opened, I wouldn't mind Boggo being used over Park Road.

Both are completely at odds with other instances where the Busways and train networks integrate. Boggo Road Bus station is closer to Park Road than the Buranda bus and trains.