Brisbane: Bus Electric Rapid Transit (' Brisbane Metro ')

[verbatim9]

I don't mind which validation method is the likely outcome, but one of the reasons for off board validation was to reduce dwell times at stops.

Yes having two systems of validation on the busway wouldn't really make sense, unless buses are just used as a feeder system. This looks like it's not going to occur in 20-30% of circumstances.

[Cazza]

Hear me out.

What could happen is have the normal fare gates (such as the one at CBD/busier train stations currently) outside the busway stations (on the main concourse area, in most cases, before the stairs). You'd have them all closed and obviously have to tap on/off with your Go Card (and eventual contactless payment method) like normal.

For those that are purchasing paper tickets (which is surely going to dwindle even further in the future) do so by using the current AVMs, which will be located outside the gate line. At the bottom of the ticket would be a QR code (which would have the ticket type info such as Adult single, Concession return etc.) and they would scan it with new scanners built into the fare gates. This means that those who had purchased a single ticket for zone 1 (for example) wouldn't be able to scan it outside zone 1 and the gates would open.

This means that the busway stations wouldn't need to be manned (from what I understand) as the AVMs and help phones outside the fare gates would be sufficient. It also means that no matter whether it's a metro service or normal bus service which is chosen to be boarded, commuters can just jump straight on (hopefully with all door boarding too) meaning dwell times are at an absolute minimum.

Let me know if this is an overly simplistic view on it and whether it would actually be achievable, because from my end, it definitely solves most of the issues that have seemed to be raised.

[James]

What causes the issues with bus throughput right now is the constant to-ing and fro-ing of people trying to get their bus at the Cultural Centre station (and others, notably Buranda, hence the works there to lengthen the platform). From what I've read on the website, a system which alerts passengers to their bus bay is proposed for all the Metro stations to reduce this issue.

While having off-board touch-ons would be desirable, whether this is workable is another thing. In practice, you'd turn off the Cultural Centre as a stop in the go card programming, meaning the bus touch-off doesn't activate and people touch off at fare gates (and the same for departing / boarding passengers). This could cause enough confusion to users to wipe out the benefits of having off-board touch-ons. It would also cause problems for people making bus-bus transfers, unless the way the go card is programmed changes significantly as part of NGT.

It wouldn't surprise me if this part of the Metro plan falls by the wayside with the new station design - fare gates are easy to install or retrofit, but in a fancy graphic make the proposal feel more like a 'Metro' and less like a 'fancy bus'.

[timh]

Cazza's idea for off-board fare gates makes sense to me. I'm trying to play out how a number of different scenarios would work.

Scenario A - I catch a 130 from Sunnybank Plaza and get off at Griffith busway station. I tap on ON the bus on mains road, but on arrival at Griffith I tap off at the faregate.

Scenario B - Same scenario in reverse. Tap on at the fare gate at Griffith, tap off on the bus at Sunnybank Plaza

Scenario C - I take a 111 from Garden City to Cultural Centre. At GC I tap on at the fare gate. At Cultural centre, I'm not leaving the station, as I'm transferring to another bus. I transfer onto a 330 heading to Chermside, and when I get to Chermside, I tap off on the bus. Effectively the stop over at Cultural centre is not registered in Go card data, it just sees me tap on at GC and tap off at Chermside.

Scenario D - the same, except instead of starting at GC I start by tapping on a 150 on Warrigal Road.


All these work. Your trip is still recorded from arrival to destination. The only difference I can see in the way go card programming would have to work is that any time a bus or metro Vehicle is at a busway station, their go card readers on board turn off, making pax forced to use the fare gates instead and prevent accidental touch on/offs on the bus. If the bus leaves the busway or goes to QSBS or something then yeah the go card readers would act as normal. AFAIK this shouldn't be too difficult to implement as the Go card readers on the bus activate by GPS data anyway.

Fare evasion at the gates at the stations is an issue, but I mean it's no worse than the train stations that have no gates at all.

All this being said though, in recent times I have heard very little in regards to off board ticketing with the metro project. I remember the idea being floated around in the earlier iterations of the project but I haven't heard much about it since. I assume they're probably scrapping it.

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[#Metro]

I think you can have fare gates, the ticket system just needs to recognise when there has been a double tap and compensate accordingly.

So, you catch 130 to the city and:
- tap off the bus
- don't tap off the bus but tap the gate on exit
- tap both the bus and the gate on exit

Should all be treated the same way by the system.

[aldonius]

I don't think off board validation will happen soon. I was excited for it, but I won't mourn its loss. With a mix of buses and Metro vehicles there's exactly one way to do it right: as timh says, the buses need to deactivate their readers while in the busway.

The current system can handle people transferring without touching, because that's exactly what happens for rail. (Edit: but for fare-system purposes I suppose it probably distinguish bus services but not rail...)

Metro services can and should be prepaid only, of course.

[verbatim9]

Saturday eve vs this eve. What a difference a few road blocks make.

[ozbob]

^ thanks for the photographs!   

[verbatim9]

Doing a little digging, I discovered that the Brisbane Metro Project Overview document was given a January 2021 update (pdf). Of specific interest is the updated layout plans for Cultural Centre - Adelaide Street stretch.

^^Thanks to @nathandavid88 for pointing out the January update.

[aldonius]

One of the last pages of that PDF confirms that even without off-board, the intention is still for all busway services to be prepaid only while in the busway. Which is to say, no on-board purchases or top-ups. Straightforward to implement, achieves most of the time benefits, and just needs some signage to be installed rather than say fare gates.

[verbatim9]

Does anyone know what PMIS is referring to in the brochure? Its mentioned in the station section, but has been deferred to future years

[timh]

Does anyone know what PMIS is referring to in the brochure? Its mentioned in the station section, but has been deferred to future years

Platform management system. I'm assuming it's something similar to what they have at KGS where buses are assigned particular stops along the platform with PIDs to match.

I'm glad to see confirmation in that updated document that offboard ticketing is planned, just not in this "Stage 1" rollout. Provision for offboard ticketing at a later date is fine for me for now. I suspect that's also why modifications to GC and EMP stations aren't going ahead, as the modifications in the original design involved removing the second southern entrance to the platforms (presumably to funnel everyone through fare gates at the main northern entrance with the overbridge)

I note though that modifications to Buranda and Griffith ARE going ahead in Stage 1. Buranda is obvious, the platforms need lengthening to cope with the increased number of services. Griffith has a new turnaround which interests me. I can only assume that it will be a terminus station for a number of routes in the new post-Metro bus network.

It's still interesting to me that BCC has their plans for future Metro going to "Chermside, Carindale and Brisbane Airport". Chermside is fine, Carindale is fine, but they really should drop the whole Airport thing imo and perhaps talk about possibility of extending the Metro to Springwood/Hyperdome when the busway is built to there. At least that busway is actually on the cards and funded, unlike Chermside/Carindale (sadly). Obviously Springwood/Hyperdome is outside BCC boundaries but I'd hope they would play nicely with Logan.

[verbatim9]

There are no plans for the Metro to be extended past Eight Mile Plains or Rochedale, despite the recent announcement of the Busway extension to Daisy Hill. Remember that this is a Brisbane City Council initiative not a Translinlk one or a Logan Council one. Hence Metro's priorities are within the Brisbane City Council's boundaries.

[verbatim9]

ABC News ---> Victoria Bridge pedestrianisation could feature a South Bank-style arboretum, Brisbane's council hears - ABC News

[Gazza]

ABC Doesn't know the difference between an Arbour and an Arboretum

[nathandavid88]

There are no plans for the Metro to be extended past Eight Mile Plains or Rochedale, despite the recent announcement of the Busway extension to Daisy Hill. Remember that this is a Brisbane City Council initiative not a Translinlk one or a Logan Council one. Hence Metro's priorities are within the Brisbane City Council's boundaries.

There are no plans as yet because Metro is planned to be in operation before the Busway extension to Springwood is delivered.

[timh]

There are no plans for the Metro to be extended past Eight Mile Plains or Rochedale, despite the recent announcement of the Busway extension to Daisy Hill. Remember that this is a Brisbane City Council initiative not a Translinlk one or a Logan Council one. Hence Metro's priorities are within the Brisbane City Council's boundaries.

There are no plans as yet because Metro is planned to be in operation before the Busway extension to Springwood is delivered.

Ya. And on that note, I spoke to the staff at TMR during the latest community consultation for the busway extension, and they said that they were in consultation with BCC to ensure that the turning circles etc. In the new station designs were appropriate for the Metro vehicle. So there definitely is consideration.

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[verbatim9]

ABC Doesn't know the difference between an Arbour and an Arboretum

As much as I like the idea, something similar to Southbank on the bridge would be very expensive to establish and maintain. They are better to have shade discs or something similar to the other Green bridges.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1361706580538925061

[verbatim9]

Lord Mayor's Facebook---> Video simulation of the new Brisbane Metro Depot

[ozbob]

My daughter grabbed this for me today at QUT.



#winning 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1364467000265777153

[ozbob]

SNC - Lavalin

Brisbane Metro Vehicle Bus Specialists – Technical Advisory

https://www.snclavalin.com/en/projects/brisbane-metro-vehicle-bus-specialists-technical-advisory

" ... SNC-Lavalin was engaged by Brisbane Metro to provide technical advice and to produce the technical specification for the vehicles. ... "

[ozbob]

SNC - Lavalin

Brisbane Metro Vehicle Bus Specialists – Technical Advisory

https://www.snclavalin.com/en/projects/brisbane-metro-vehicle-bus-specialists-technical-advisory

" ... SNC-Lavalin was engaged by Brisbane Metro to provide technical advice and to produce the technical specification for the vehicles. ... "

Interesting, this has now been removed from SNC-L website.

[achiruel]

SNC - Lavalin

Brisbane Metro Vehicle Bus Specialists – Technical Advisory

https://www.snclavalin.com/en/projects/brisbane-metro-vehicle-bus-specialists-technical-advisory

" ... SNC-Lavalin was engaged by Brisbane Metro to provide technical advice and to produce the technical specification for the vehicles. ... "

Interesting, this has now been removed from SNC-L website.

'Transparency'

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ljstone09/status/1402432754059341828

[verbatim9]

Council is pushing for the underground station at the Cultural Centre in line with a successful Olympic bid. Metro services running end of 2023 (Brisbane Times 2021).

Brisbane Times, 2021. https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/at-a-glance-the-2021-22-brisbane-city-council-budget-20210616-p581fl.html

[timh]

Council is pushing for the underground station at the Cultural Centre in line with a successful Olympic bid. Metro services running end of 2023 (Brisbane Times 2021).

Brisbane Times, 2021. https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/at-a-glance-the-2021-22-brisbane-city-council-budget-20210616-p581fl.html

That would be a good outcome, but with the current state of QLD government transport plans for 2032 Olympics I doubt it would happen :/

[ozbob]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-16/brisbane-city-council-budget-rates-to-rise/100216766

Infrastructure focus

The budget included a $1.2 billion infrastructure spend this coming financial year, up from more than $900 million last year.

Cr Schrinner said the majority of the funds was put into suburban projects, with $500 million focused on the CBD.

Public and active transport is another major focus for the budget, including $94,000 to plan a new CityGlider through Hamilton to Woolloongabba, $22 million for the planned ferry terminal at Howard Smith Wharves and terminal upgrades at South Bank, and $8.3 million for two new double-decker CityCats.

Key ongoing projects include Brisbane Metro, with $218 million allocated toward developing the at-grade Cultural Centre station, tunnelling under Adelaide Street and construction of the Rochedale Depot.

The Lord Mayor confirmed the council was speaking to the state government about getting additional funding to ensure the Cultural Centre station could be put underground.

Last year the council decided to only put in minor upgrades after a stoush with the government over its design.

Cr Schrinner said it was now clear if the Olympics went ahead, the station would be well over capacity unless money was put into putting the entire station underground as originally planned.

A total of $60 million has been allocated to the green bridges program, specifically fast-tracking the Kangaroo Point green bridge, with contractors expected to be announced this year.

A potential fifth bridge, however, remains uncertain in both location and possible funding.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Over capacity. The bus station struggled with buses during the start of covid when everything was shut down and no one was in the city let alone on a bus going to/from the cultural centre. Too many buses on a poorly designed and run network has a big part in it. All it takes are 3 terminating northside routes and the outbound busway leg is blocked. Just takes 1 west end bound bus and the southern leg is blocked.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Olympics to reheat council push for underground Brisbane Metro station $

Lord mayor Adrian Schrinner has raised capacity concerns over the above-ground design for his council's flagship Brisbane Metro stations south of the CBD, after "settling" on the option with the state government last year.

The site of the Cultural Centre station has been a long-running sore point between the two levels of government, now set to re-emerge should the Queensland capital win hosting rights for the 2032 Olympic Games next month.

Despite council's Labor opposition warning of further cost blowouts and delays, Cr Schrinner has insisted the $1.2 billion project's electrified and articulated 24-metre buses would be running by the end of 2023.

Plans for a station under the present high-frequency bus rank area or Convention Centre were put on ice last year after disagreements over the size and location, with the lord mayor saying upgrades to the existing bus station would sustain the city's travel needs for the next decade.

But asked whether a 2032 Olympic Games centred in the city would mean a renewed focus on the underground option, Cr Schrinner said: "Absolutely".

"It was always our intention to have the underground Cultural Centre station built as part of Brisbane Metro. We settled on an agreement with the state government that there would be an interim solution reached," he said. ...

[aldonius]

The very first segment of Busway was South Brisbane to Woolloongabba, just in time for the various events that got farmed out from Sydney 2000.

Be good if Brisbane 2032 resulted in the final piece of that puzzle.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane Metro will be missing key tunnel, busway upgrades at launch $

One of the tunnels dug for the Brisbane City Council's $1.2 billion Metro project will not be finished in time for its "soft launch" and key upgrades to the Cultural Centre station, Victoria Bridge and Buranda Busway will also be incomplete.

Further details of the council's flagship project aired this week revealed the full funding set aside for its 60 articulated buses, and that a pilot vehicle was not expected to make it onto existing city busways until at least early next year.

The developments follow a series of delays, cost blowouts and state government interventions since the project was announced in 2016 to ease inner-city bus network congestion.

The council budget handed down last week showed more than half the project's remaining cost – $540 million – was not projected until the 2023-24 and 2024-25 financial years, prompting councillors to probe public and active transport committee chair Ryan Murphy on its progress on Monday.

"We anticipate the commencement of the project will be essentially a soft launch," he said.

"So services will start, drivers will need to be trained, passengers will need to slowly integrate with the new experience ... it will be a progressive rollout." ...

... A staged review and planning for bus network changes, to be undertaken with TransLink and other public transport operators, was expected to start in 2022. ...

" ... A staged review and planning for bus network changes, to be undertaken with TransLink and other public transport operators, was expected to start in 2022. ... "

[ozbob]

" ... A staged review and planning for bus network changes, to be undertaken with TransLink and other public transport operators, was expected to start in 2022. ... " 

^

As I have said previously, not much point worrying too much about bus reform at present.  It is going to happen as outlined above. 
Big changes on the way ...  they have been working on it a while now.

[#Metro]

This portal is ugly and the barriers get in the way of free movement. Instead of building a silly bridge to the Casino, an Adelaide St bridge would have been better.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Metro works set to change CBD traffic, as council clarifies late-2024 finish $

Brisbane City Council has revealed that the first stage of its flagship $1.2 billion public transport project is only expected to be fully operational in late 2024, with major construction work set to alter traffic flow in the CBD from later this month.

Early construction at the site of the Brisbane Metro tunnel linking the top of Adelaide Street to King George Square is set to begin from Monday, September 20, bringing a number of changes for commuters and travellers. ...

[kram0]

So still no team work from the State Government or Council with regards to finally deciding to build the Cultural Centre station underground and save both tax and rate payers money?

What a joke!

[ozbob]

^

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Final Brisbane Metro vehicle design revealed ahead of 2022 pilot launch $

The pilot Brisbane Metro vehicle will include a raft of changes to boost accessibility and commuter comfort in a south-east Queensland climate, including more priority seating, upgraded window tinting and airconditioning, after testing in virtual reality and on a life-size timber model.

Revealing the final design for the first of 60 articulated and electric buses underpinning the council's flagship $1.2 billion high-frequency transport program, to be announced on Friday, lord mayor Adrian Schrinner said the vehicles would be the first of their kind in Australia. ...

A render of the final design for the pilot Brisbane Metro vehicles, set to arrive for testing on the city's bus network in 2022.
CREDIT:BRISBANE CITY COUNCIL


The interior of the vehicles will feature screens with route maps, along with and increase in priority seating and mobility spaces.
CREDIT:BRISBANE CITY COUNCIL

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/bne_lordmayor/status/1436089642391007243

====