Queensland Rail

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Queensland Rail demands its consultants adopt union conditions

QUEENSLAND Rail has demanded private companies in its employ abide by a new union agreement that seeks to quash the use of contractors.

Bewildered companies providing professional and consultancy services are scrambling to figure out what the demand means for how they run their businesses after QR told them they must adopt union conditions if they wanted their contracts extended past July 1.

More than 200 companies have so far been told they must agree that "employees of contractors are afforded terms which are no less favourable than the terms which would apply if the work was done by employees of Queensland Rail" if they wish to extend contracts or begin new ones.

It comes after the Strachan inquiry found unworkable union demands contained in agreements had contributed to the shortage of train crews behind the timetabling dramas.

Companies who spoke to The Courier-Mail on the condition of anonymity said they were baffled by the letter and had no idea how they would calculate whether they were meeting the award.

They questioned whether agreeing to the terms would leave them worse off and was calculated by the unions to push up costs and make contracting for QR not worthwhile.

"I looked at the allowances and the double time and I can't manage that," one said. "Signing this could force me to lose money. I just want to get the job done."

QR chief executive Nick Easy said the organisation was just abiding by its enterprise agreement, which came into effect in April last year and applied to new and renewed contracts for works that could be undertaken in-house.

Every day it is looking more certain that Queensland Rail will disappear into the ether after the next election ...

[ozbob]

[#Metro]

So this is the efficiency that comes with "public ownership" and "lack of profit" people talk about hey?   

Here we have Queensland Rail increasing its own cost base.


Of course, government will happily pay whatever Queensland Rail asks for straight out of Queensland Treasury.

It is only taxpayer money after all. None of these pesky "shareholders" with skin in the game who expect a return on the

money that they put in. No competitors to undercut it. No hard bottom line to adhere to. Business guaranteed no matter what.


Nothing is too outrageous it seems. Shall we extend the Queensland Rail contract again now? 

Privatisation? Yes please!

[BrizCommuter]

Looks like the Unions are pointing their gun at their feet, and are just about the pull the trigger!

[ozbob]

Looks like the Unions are pointing their gun at their feet, and are just about the pull the trigger!

Indeed.

[ozbob]

When you think #railfail could not get possibly worse ... it does.

Charade - Citytrain Response Unit, Strachan Commission, the so called  ' failed culture ' at Queensland Rail.

It is all just cover for an inept Government captured by anachronistic industrial policies.

Very hard to argue for continuation of the present arrangements for Queensland Rail.  Their only hope is for the formation of Public Transport Queensland, Queensland Rail streamlined to an operator.  The next Government will certainly act now.

[#Metro]

When you think #railfail could not get possibly worse ... it does.

Charade - Citytrain Response Unit, Strachan Commission, the so called  ' failed culture ' at Queensland Rail.

It is all just cover for an inept Government captured by anachronistic industrial policies.

The people who advocate continued public ownership of Queensland Rail - at any and all costs - in the hope that things will just get better

and resolve itself so that they can avoid having to deal with the very obvious and valid question around whether there are any compelling, unique

and tangible economic or social benefits to the continued public and monopolistic operation of Queensland Rail have a lot to answer for.


All the investigations, reports, commissions, promises to fix it, establishing the CRU, even having the organisation run by the guy who wrote the

Strachan report and did the investigations - are not working. Why is that?


It does not work because you cannot enforce the standards through fines and termination.

Without a profit indicator to sound the alarm, costs can just go up and up and up with no consequence. The government will pay.


If you don't deal with the framework of incentives that are leading to these outcomes, then the changes made so far will not be effective

in changing the culture.


I see an inherent conflict of interest where you have an industrial organisation on one end of a bargaining table and on the other

end of the table, Red Team Government MPs who need to sign off on it, who are either current or ex- industrial organisation members who

have benefited from campaign support and donations financially or in-kind. More pay for members means more dues and donations come election

time doesn't it? So there is every incentive to put a bit of inefficiency into it because it makes sense politically.


We have seen this not only with this story but also the story last week from the CM where Trad's Office allegedly had wording added to

a QR job advertisement such that the field of candidates were narrowed to ex-QR employees only. Does this happen in Melbourne at METRO

- running job advertisement wording past the Deputy Premier's Office? Doubt it.


Opinion: The entire thing looks like some kind of institutionalised racket now, it is just incredible the Queensland Auditor-General has not jumped onto this.

How does the passenger benefit from all of this? They don't!


Queensland Rail: Job ads restricted to former train drivers
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/queensland-rail-job-ads-restricted-to-former-train-drivers/news-story/275d8a8dd5d4ab825778e4041b630c09

[Stillwater]

The revelation that a Minister's office feels it has to micro-manage an organisation to the extent that it must approve the wording of staff recruitment ads is unprecedented, although it is proper that the Minister be consulted about the additional staffing levels.  Is Jackie Trad now the de-facto CEO of QR?

The voting public have now drawn a very clear link between the competency of the state government overall, and its ability to govern, and its handling of the QR Railfail.

[ozbob]

Some  ' interesting ' blog comments at the CM on this at http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-rail-demands-its-consultants-adopt-union-conditions/news-story/54a9f71ceeedd81d323e1f691d527945

Including this little gem

" Strachan is the Chairman but can't implement the recommendations of his own enquiry!

What an absolute joke. "

Sums it up succinctly and accurately ...   

Gone ...

[verbatim9]

^^Soon SE Queensland will not be able to afford to run trains on Sundays and public holidays. It will be only rail replacement buses running with the excuse of track work. But the real reason is that guards and train (engineers) drivers cost too much money on those days.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

[HappyTrainGuy]

^^Soon SE Queensland will not be able to afford to run trains on Sundays and public holidays. It will be only rail replacement buses running with the excuse of track work. But the real reason is that guards and train (engineers) drivers cost too much money on those days.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

Buses don't run on Sundays so it would meet the rest of the Translink network.

[verbatim9]

Buz and Gylder Busses run Sundays​ and public holidays. Bus driver wages haven't been as controversial.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

[HappyTrainGuy]

So 3 routes that all go along Gympie Road on Brisbanes northside run on a Sunday 

Edit: My mistake. There are other routes that run on the northside on a Sunday. Just not the 326, 327, 329, 334, 336, 337

[verbatim9]

Even though bus services could be improved this is not a bus operations thread. The real issue is train operations and the expense of running them due to extraordinary wage deals!? Technically a Train driver in SEQ is a millionaire by working 9years or less at the expense of the tax payers and reduced services and roll out of new technologies and infrastructure across the train network. I am surprised that people don't see this or maybe it's not an issue to them or its brushed underneath the carpet as something normal?

[petey3801]

What a load of bollocks. You've been told before, traincrew wages in QLD are on par with most, if not all other rail operators around the country and the western world. I don't see them shutting down on Sundays.

[verbatim9]

^^You can tell all you want. I tend to disagree from articles written and the general consensus.

[Stillwater]

Ms Trad approves the job ads.  Does a politician run QR?  Just who runs QR?  What's its relationship to TMR and TransLink?  Then we have the CRU and the CRR Delivery Authority..... It's all a bit confusing.   

[#Metro]

Actually, I would agree with Verbatim9. If something costs more, one usually engages in behaviours to limit those costs.
(Unless you are the current QLD Gov't who don't seem to be doing that, but that is not the topic here).

What a load of bollocks. You've been told before, traincrew wages in QLD are on par with most, if not all other rail operators around the country and the western world. I don't see them shutting down on Sundays.

Yes, but that overlooks the simple fact that Queensland Rail uses 2 staff per trains, whereas somewhere like Melbourne use 1 staff.

Let's look at what Daniel Bowen from the PTUA has written about this:
https://www.danielbowen.com/2013/02/04/train-guards/

The removal of guards meant that the cost of adding additional train services fell markedly, particularly on weekends when penalty rates apply.

Sunday services have seen the biggest improvement: prior to 1996 all lines ran only every 40 minutes.

In February 1996 the busiest lines, through Caulfield and Camberwell, were upgraded to every 30 minutes until about 7pm*, followed by the Glen Waverley line the following year. In mid-1999 all lines went to every 20 minutes between about 11am and 7pm (matching Saturday frequencies). In 2012 the Ringwood, Dandenong and Frankston lines went to every 10 minutes between about 10am and 7pm (on both Saturdays and Sundays).

Would these service upgrades have happened if we still had guards? It's unclear.

Even though Bowen cannot come to a hard conclusion, we can use another piece of evidence to get a better idea:

Frequency and Freedom on Driverless Rapid Transit
http://humantransit.org/2010/02/driverless-rapid-transit-why-it-matters.html

None of these, however, are the real reason to consider driverless metros.  The real reason is that they break the connection between frequency and labor costs.  Look at SkyTrain's frequency tables:

The lack of a driver is the key to those extreme frequencies.  When you have a driver on every vehicle, the labor cost is the dominant cost of operations.  So when you have to cut service, as many North American agencies are doing this year, you end up cutting frequencies, starting with late night and weekend.

So there is a link between costs (in general) and what can be put on the table in terms of service frequency and span.

It may not be a direct 1:1 thing but it does go some way to explaining why off peak train frequency and weekend frequencies are very

poor and have been for a long time in SEQ.


Anything that increases production costs for Queensland Rail should be looked at as moving further away from cheap and abundant

transport for passengers.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Even though bus services could be improved this is not a bus operations thread. The real issue is train operations and the expense of running them due to extraordinary wage deals!? Technically a Train driver in SEQ is a millionaire by working 9years or less at the expense of the tax payers and reduced services and roll out of new technologies and infrastructure across the train network. I am surprised that people don't see this or maybe it's not an issue to them or its brushed underneath the carpet as something normal?

Going even further on what Petey mentioned. If anything SEQ drivers are getting screwed if you base it on pay. Its normal across the country. Train drivers in Melbourne have been earning over 100,000 for years with many getting paid even more depending on their qualifications and are still getting annual pay increases. They were on par with what coal train drivers could make up here. You make even more if you are a freight/coal train driver with most making 100,000-200,000 a year depending on qualifications.

Metro. You are not factoring in the two different types of railway networks between the two states and how that also reflects on patronage and a supporting bus network. Just because you double the frequency does not mean you will double the patronage. All you get is cost cutting with the same frequency still with the potential to cut services due to lack of patronage. You might cut costs from less crew but does the patronage increase support the additional running costs for increased services? Queensland has a rail network designed and based on freight. It was based on freight well before passengers were using it. Beenleigh-Varsity Lakes, Petrie-Kippa Ring and Darra-Springfield are pretty much the only passenger designed sections and even then they are pretty poorly done. There are no major attractions along most of our network. There's no big shopping complexes. No big retail hubs. No big interchanges. Buses don't connect to railway stations. Its like the 330. Get to 5pm and all inbound services have no one on them with outbound services relying on ex-city patronage to carry the service as Westfield Chermside is closed. Even then the patronage drops off pretty quickly. The 340 is even more dramatic with how rapidly its patronage dives off the cliff where one bus going past Aspley in the arvo will have 15 left onboard then the next 8 buses will be lucky to have 15 people onboard in total.

The RBWH, The Prince Charles Hospital, Westfield Chermside and Westfield North Lakes/surrounding retail are the largest employers across the northside of Brisbane and on its fringe but has no direct railway connection. What you might think would work well in one state or city may not work as well here. Cost for running a network isn't the only factor.

[#Metro]

Metro. You are not factoring in the two different types of railway networks between the two states and how that also reflects on patronage and a supporting bus network. Just because you double the frequency does not mean you will double the patronage. All you get is cost cutting with the same frequency still with the potential to cut services due to lack of patronage. You might cut costs from less crew but does the patronage increase support the additional running costs for increased services? Queensland has a rail network designed and based on freight. It was based on freight well before passengers were using it. Beenleigh-Varsity Lakes, Petrie-Kippa Ring and Darra-Springfield are pretty much the only passenger designed sections and even then they are pretty poorly done. There are no major attractions along most of our network. There's no big shopping complexes. No big retail hubs. No big interchanges. Buses don't connect to railway stations. Its like the 330. Get to 5pm and all inbound services have no one on them with outbound services relying on ex-city patronage to carry the service as Westfield Chermside is closed. Even then the patronage drops off pretty quickly. The 340 is even more dramatic with how rapidly its patronage dives off the cliff where one bus going past Aspley in the arvo will have 15 left onboard then the next 8 buses will be lucky to have 15 people onboard in total.

Lots of staff x big pay = expensive production costs.

Anything that increases production costs for Queensland Rail should be looked at as moving further away from cheap and abundant transport for passengers.

Have to agree with Verbatim9 on this occasion. Queensland Rail - the train operator that ate itself.

[SurfRail]

Even though bus services could be improved this is not a bus operations thread. The real issue is train operations and the expense of running them due to extraordinary wage deals!? Technically a Train driver in SEQ is a millionaire by working 9years or less at the expense of the tax payers and reduced services and roll out of new technologies and infrastructure across the train network. I am surprised that people don't see this or maybe it's not an issue to them or its brushed underneath the carpet as something normal?

Going even further on what Petey mentioned. If anything SEQ drivers are getting screwed if you base it on pay. Its normal across the country. Train drivers in Melbourne have been earning over 100,000 for years with many getting paid even more depending on their qualifications and are still getting annual pay increases. They were on par with what coal train drivers could make up here. You make even more if you are a freight/coal train driver with most making 100,000-200,000 a year depending on qualifications.

Metro. You are not factoring in the two different types of railway networks between the two states and how that also reflects on patronage and a supporting bus network. Just because you double the frequency does not mean you will double the patronage. All you get is cost cutting with the same frequency still with the potential to cut services due to lack of patronage. You might cut costs from less crew but does the patronage increase support the additional running costs for increased services? Queensland has a rail network designed and based on freight. It was based on freight well before passengers were using it. Beenleigh-Varsity Lakes, Petrie-Kippa Ring and Darra-Springfield are pretty much the only passenger designed sections and even then they are pretty poorly done. There are no major attractions along most of our network. There's no big shopping complexes. No big retail hubs. No big interchanges. Buses don't connect to railway stations. Its like the 330. Get to 5pm and all inbound services have no one on them with outbound services relying on ex-city patronage to carry the service as Westfield Chermside is closed. Even then the patronage drops off pretty quickly. The 340 is even more dramatic with how rapidly its patronage dives off the cliff where one bus going past Aspley in the arvo will have 15 left onboard then the next 8 buses will be lucky to have 15 people onboard in total.

The RBWH, The Prince Charles Hospital, Westfield Chermside and Westfield North Lakes/surrounding retail are the largest employers across the northside of Brisbane and on its fringe but has no direct railway connection. What you might think would work well in one state or city may not work as well here. Cost for running a network isn't the only factor.

The general uselessness of our existing network only reinforces how important it is to reduce costs.  We are starting from a double disadvantage here.

I don't think guards are going anywhere because the infrastructure upgrades in recent years appear to have been designed intentionally to prevent that.  The partial platform raising in the middle only has to be the worst of it.

[ozbob]

Periodical reminder@QueenslandRail ELT were paid cash bonuses while #railfail was hatching.
Board looked on ... hey @jackietrad #qldpol pic.twitter.com/UqFyeUELNw

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) June 5, 2017

[tazzer9]

While I don't know the details of the enterprise award for QR Drivers, the nature of how QR run the network is going to make it more expensive.   While its is going to cost more on sundays, the real problem is needing to pay more (either through a direct penalty rate, or built into the wage) because so many drivers have to do work early in the morning to prep trains for morning peak.  This occurring mostly around the 4-6am time slot).   That's on top of service starting at 4am.  Buses in brisbane don't start until 6am with only a few exceptions.   And Bus Depots are more strategically placed.

[HappyTrainGuy]

While I don't know the details of the enterprise award for QR Drivers, the nature of how QR run the network is going to make it more expensive.   While its is going to cost more on sundays, the real problem is needing to pay more (either through a direct penalty rate, or built into the wage) because so many drivers have to do work early in the morning to prep trains for morning peak.  This occurring mostly around the 4-6am time slot).   That's on top of service starting at 4am.  Buses in brisbane don't start until 6am with only a few exceptions.   And Bus Depots are more strategically placed.

What?

As far as I know drivers do not get extra pay because they have to wake up earlier or finish later at night than your usual 9-5 worker (doesn't include overtime be it working before or after your allocated shift times). Its a fixed roster that alternates after your rdo. Also depends what you mean by prepping. Another also some crews are based out of the terminus/stabling yards. So one Caboolture crew (both might live within 3km of Caboolture station) might knock off after stowing the train in the yard for peak hour while another crew doing the following peak hour train collects their stowed train to form a 12 car train to tow back to the Mayne yard. They then go back to driving trains or knock off and go home. Even the night link trains are now forming the first services of the weekend.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland Rail data shows cancellations of services stabilising

Queensland Rail cancellations have improved significantly since the mass disruptions in October that exposed flaws in the organisation.

From mid-October to mid-February, an average of 118 services were cancelled per week.

Whereas between mid-February and May, the weekly average dropped to 34, which represents about 0.5 per cent of all scheduled services across the network.

Those figures exclude the last week of March, when the network was impacted by flooding in the aftermath of Cyclone Debbie, forcing the closure of several lines.

But even with the extreme weather event included, the average for the past three months would be 85 cancelled services per week on average.

The Gold Coast, Beenleigh and Shorncliffe lines were the worst-hit by cancellations during the week starting March 27 – the week Cyclone Debbie struck.

Brisbane was pelted with heavy rain in the aftermath of the cyclone from late on March 29.

Across the network, 8.86 per cent of services were cancelled over the week starting March 27.

This graph of network cancellations shows the network appearing to stabilise, apart from a spike attributed to Cyclone Debbie.

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said the figures showed a huge 70 per cent decrease in service cancellations.

Ms Trad said she promised the return of sustainable and reliable services when she became transport minister in February.

"I'm very pleased to report that we are well on our way to achieving that," she said.

"While there is more work to be done, these figures show a very encouraging trend that demonstrates that we are getting Queensland Rail back on track."

Queensland Rail has been under fire since October 21, when 167 services were cancelled and numerous issues were uncovered that led to the wide-ranging Strachan inquiry, several top QR employees resigning and the resignation of transport minister Stirling Hinchliffe, despite being cleared of responsibility.

The saga was sparked following the opening of the Redcliffe Peninsula line on October 4, despite two external agencies warning QR months earlier it did not have enough drivers and guards to meet the increased timetable.

There were also 261 services cancelled on Christmas Day.

A "confluence of infrastructure mishaps and misfires" including storm damage and a broken-down train caused lengthy delays on December 8, leading to more than $300,000 in refunds being paid to commuters.

Commuters also faced delays on January 30 after a telemetry failure on the Redcliffe Peninsula Line.

QR chief executive officer Nick Easy said by implementing the Strachan inquiry recommendations, QR had a much stronger focus on forward planning, managing resources and preventing faults.

Mr Easy said the results of that plan were clear in the new cancellation statistics.

"It's very positive to see service cancellations in steady decline, but it's also important to remember that in any mass transit system in the world, cancellations cannot be completely avoided," he said.

"We will continue to work hard at preventing issues on our trains and track, but from time to time incidents beyond our control do occur, and in those instances our focus is on recovering the network as quickly as safely as possible."

Services can be disrupted by medical emergencies, bridge strikes, extreme weather and police incidents.

There is a nice interactive that shows cancellations on each line (user selectable) in the article at BT.

Two points to make:

1.  There are reduced numbers of services running on each line, with even more service reductions on Fridays.

2.  OTR is actually getting worse.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

12th June 2017

Queensland Rail cancellations stabilising - a comment

Good Morning,

So the number of cancellations of services at Queensland Rail is stabilising.
[ Queensland Rail data shows cancellations of services stabilising --> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-rail-data-shows-cancellations-of-services-stabilising-20170611-gwoz67.html ].

This is a good thing of course but we need not to get too excited now. An example late yesterday afternoon the 5.05pm Rosewood-Ipswich train cancelled,  ' operational issue ' < what ever that means [ https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1862.msg193758#msg193758 ]. Two hours between services, long wait for some passengers.  This is the impact of rail fail!

On Time Running (OTR) is  now consistently poor [ https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?board=73.0 and Queensland Rail on-time running worse in 2017 than in 2016 --> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-rail-ontime-running-worse-in-2017-than-in-2016-20170524-gwcfbk.html ], and don't forget each line has reduced services compared to the October 2016 timetable, and on Fridays there are even less services! One would hope a rail operator could manage to turn out most services on reduced service timetables.

This rail fail has been a disaster for public transport in SEQ.  Surely Queensland Rail can now drop the Friday timetable and run a standard Monday to Friday timetable?  We have been putting up with reduced unreliable services for months now.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/873941421056708608

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 13th June 2017 page 20

Rail service not meeting expectations

[verbatim9]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-rail-slashes-sunday-services-following-network-stress-test-20170614-gwr3sj.html

Like was mentioned a week or 2 ago in this forum a matter of time before Sunday and Public Holiday services are slashed.

Very unsustainable model for cheap and affordable train transport

Other countries have station staff but not located every 2 km. They may have at premium stations and interchanges. Many stations don't require a station master on the Brisbane Network. These people can be redeployed across the network as customer service staff where needed at peak times

QR Train engineeers drivers paid way too much as mentioned prior

Other jurisdictions are moving to DOO Gold Coast and Airport lines can move to this model with in the next couple of years.

Platforms need to be raised where they haven't been at the end of each station

DOO for the rest of the network over the next 10 years.

^^These are vital steps a sustainable train network for the future. I encourage people to write or mention these points to their local MP as there is an election coming up. Honestly Queenslanders deserve better public transport!

[petey3801]

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, you are quite wrong. QR drivers are paid a similar amount to other drivers across Australia and the world. They are not on significantly more than anyone else, I honestly don't know where you keep coming up with this crap. Should QR drivers be paid less because they drive narrow gauge trains, as opposed to standard gauge in many other places? What about Melbourne? Should they be paid more because they're on broad gauge? What is it that makes you think QR drivers are paid more than any other drivers, making them hugely over-paid?
Fact of the matter is that with the conditions and the shiftwork that drivers around the world deal with, nobody would do the job if they were to be paid much less than what they are currently on. In fact, they aren't paid much more than many lower level office workers who work 9-5 Mon-Fri, and don't have thousands of peoples lives in their hands every day, nor the possibility of killing someone through no fault of their own.

[#Metro]

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, you are quite wrong. QR drivers are paid a similar amount to other drivers across Australia and the world. They are not on significantly more than anyone else, I honestly don't know where you keep coming up with this crap. Should QR drivers be paid less because they drive narrow gauge trains, as opposed to standard gauge in many other places? What about Melbourne? Should they be paid more because they're on broad gauge? What is it that makes you think QR drivers are paid more than any other drivers, making them hugely over-paid?

Fact of the matter is that with the conditions and the shiftwork that drivers around the world deal with, nobody would do the job if they were to be paid much less than what they are currently on. In fact, they aren't paid much more than many lower level office workers who work 9-5 Mon-Fri, and don't have thousands of peoples lives in their hands every day, nor the possibility of killing someone through no fault of their own.

petey3801 is broadly correct that the pay is about the same across Australia, possibly internationally as well. Though I am not sure that extends to guard positions. And of course, lots of places don't have guards - at all. So the cost of the guard in places where there isn't one is $0.

Well, the number of applications for train crew jobs far exceed the positions available. by c.a. ~ 100x. So that does suggest that there would still be demand for the position, even at a lower pay scale. On the other hand, wages work on a ratchet - they only go one way - up. Employers would rather fire people than risk plunging their entire organisation's staff into strike action because they implemented a pay reduction.

This is why a transition to greater levels of automation and DOO as verbatim9 suggests does look like the pathway for the long term future - it saves money without reducing pay rates. Other places have transitioned to DOO and RBOT should get behind that long term for the QR network as it does make the production of an additional service cheaper, and thus more likely to have service improvements under such a scheme.

[verbatim9]

^^I was going to mention the same thing after Petey3801's statement. Wages are set in stone and the only way would be a wage freeze in a few years when the EBA expires. Plus go to Driver only operation. Being QR led or implemented by another Train Operator? Hope that RBOT also can get behind a DOO campaign.

QR or another operator can always have a few extra guards or customer service people during peak at stations or on trains to move trains quickly through the network to avoid delays. Similar to that of Melbourne. So some part time Guard positions may still be required during peak.

^^This needs to occur

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

[ozbob]

DOO is a long way off in SEQ.  Need ATP first, then much station infrastructure improvement.

DOO has been looked at over the years by both LNP and ALP Governments and both decided that not a practical proposition at this time.

If CRR does get built then there might be some possibility of DOO on say the GC Line if the conditions are met.  CRR will have ATP, need the rest of the line to be upgraded as well.

[verbatim9]

Thanks Ozbob so potentially for the Gold Coast Line 4 years away 2022

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[ozbob]

Basically.  The priority is to ensure that ATP projects go ahead.  The ETCS L2 project (ATP) Roma St <> Northgate is still rolling along.  I have not had time yet to look at the Budget papers closely to see what was funded for that, but I assume it is still happening.

Once that done, then the possibility of progressive roll out further out ensues.  I would suggest the Gold Coast would be the first logical extension because CRR will be ATP'd if you like (ETCS L2).

All this is going to take years.  Which then gets back to the necessary hard infrastructure upgrades that would be needed. SurfRail mentioned somewhere a day or so ago that the present station upgrade work is not DOO friendly at all. Whether this is by design or neglect I am not sure.

Compare to the Perth - Transperth.  Has full ATP, all stations full height, generally straight.  DOO not an issue. System works like clockwork with DOO.  It is generally a ' newer ' network, the few legacy issues they had have been sorted. The rail network around SEQ is plagued by legacy issues.   DOO not a simple task at all here.

[Old Northern Road]

Apparently NSW's new Intercity trains will be designed to be driver only. Will be interesting to see how that turns out

Also check out this video of Mitcham in Adelaide. The gap between the train and the platform seems to be just as bad as it is here and they've had DOO for years

[ozbob]

^ Platforms are full height or near to and generally straight.  Also full train protection (ATP) on the electrified lines.

Adelaide will eventually be completely electrified and converted to standard gauge.  When I was on the Gawler line last year I noted the sleepers are already gauge convertible.

Sydney is moving to full ATP (eg. http://www.e3advisory.com/case-studies/automatic-train-protection-h-set-fleet-onboard-installation-project ).

[petey3801]

Adelaide also still have guards in peak, so not full DOO.

[tazzer9]

Adelaide also has very small trains.  4 cars long is the max, most are 2 or 3 cars.  Adelaide doesn't have many people using the network.   Slowly changing due to the introduction of electric trains, but the problem is the CBD terminus. 
Aren't Adelaide Guards more for revenue protection and can act as ticket inspectors?

[ozbob]

A bit of sad reading for the ' fixing the trains ' mob ..



>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/QueenslandRail/reviews/