Trackless trams (a type of guided bus )

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ProfPCDoherty/status/1044711205783265280

• Tweet

[SurfRail]

Peter Newman is a clever cookie, but he is persistently wrong about a number of things:

- Mandurah line costings are representative of costings 10 years after it was contracted, in more difficult terrain which is not substantially owned by the government
- Doncaster rail will do anything substantial other than cannibalise Hurstbridge and Ringwood patronage
- This.

I've ridden on Translohrs and similar.  They are SHITE.  Horrible ride quality.  This is even worse because it doesn't even have a fixed guide rail.  The rails are a massive advantage, not a weakness.

• Tweet

[ozbob]

• Tweet

[ozbob]

Have a look at the video.  Newman reckons the ride is very good and the video of it tends to confirm it.  It has a lot of extras to stabilise the vehicles.

• Tweet

[verbatim9]

Great video, but he doesnt mention Brisbane as a potential site? I would of thought the Brisbane Metro project certainly would be a contender! Or is Brisbane and the Metro project just a basket case in reference progressive urban planning?

But I would like to see this as a vehicle of choice for the Bnemetro project (300pax capacity). This is future proofing. Especially the 4th Generation model being marketed next year. By 2023 the battery capacity would certainly be improved.

• Tweet

[ozbob]

Newcastle Herald --> NSW government says it’s too early to roll out trackless trams in Newcastle

The state government says trackless trams are an untested technology and it is too early to consider them as a viable option for extending Newcastle’s light rail network.

The Newcastle Herald quoted leading sustainability academic Professor Peter Newman AO this week saying trackless trams cost one tenth of light rail and can stimulate urban development in the same way.

The world’s first trackless tram, running on rubber wheels and using automated optical guidance to follow dots on the road, was unveiled by Chinese firm CRRC last year.

But a Transport for NSW spokesperson said on Thursday that the technology had not been developed to the extent that it was a reliable alternative.

“Guided Electric Transit Systems, known commonly as trackless trams, are still in their infancy around the world with mixed results as to their viability and success,” the spokesperson said.

“Due to the technology still being developed, Transport for NSW is not currently considering Guided Electric Transit Systems as a mass transport solution, but we are monitoring its development.”

This position was supported by Monash University public transport researcher Professor Graham Currie, who said CRRC was the only manufacturer of the technology.

Professor Currie said the CRRC tram was “very encouraging”, but he was “very supportive of the view we need to learn more”.

He said it would be difficult for customers to get a good deal if the technology had only one supplier.

“Mature technologies need to have more than one supplier, otherwise you get this sort of effect,” he said.

“We’ve got to move ahead because our cities are growing. We’ve got to invest now.

“All governments should have their heads in looking at this. We should be looking at it for the future, but we should get on with what we’re doing now.” 
A trackless tram in Zhuzhou, in south China's Hunan province.

A trackless tram in Zhuzhou, in south China's Hunan province.

Professor Currie said CRRC was one of the largest rolling-stock companies in the world, if not the biggest.

“They’re an incredible organisation, but I was just at InnoTrans, the world’s largest exposition of railways, and they were there, but they didn’t have the trackless tram, which is interesting.

“Why would they not bring that along?”

He said other light rail alternatives coming out of Europe were more like buses.

The Transport for NSW spokesperson said the government’s Future Transport 2056 transport strategy was designed to “incorporate emerging technologies as they become viable transport options”.

The government says it will complete a strategic business case for extending Newcastle’s light rail line by the end of this year and place it on public exhibition early next year.

“The need for improved bus services is also being considered as part of the strategic business case,” the spokesperson said.

• Tweet

[verbatim9]

Newcastle Herald --> NSW government says it’s too early to roll out trackless trams in Newcastle

The state government says trackless trams are an untested technology and it is too early to consider them as a viable option for extending Newcastle’s light rail network.

The Newcastle Herald quoted leading sustainability academic Professor Peter Newman AO this week saying trackless trams cost one tenth of light rail and can stimulate urban development in the same way.

The world’s first trackless tram, running on rubber wheels and using automated optical guidance to follow dots on the road, was unveiled by Chinese firm CRRC last year.

But a Transport for NSW spokesperson said on Thursday that the technology had not been developed to the extent that it was a reliable alternative.

“Guided Electric Transit Systems, known commonly as trackless trams, are still in their infancy around the world with mixed results as to their viability and success,” the spokesperson said.

“Due to the technology still being developed, Transport for NSW is not currently considering Guided Electric Transit Systems as a mass transport solution, but we are monitoring its development.”

This position was supported by Monash University public transport researcher Professor Graham Currie, who said CRRC was the only manufacturer of the technology.

Professor Currie said the CRRC tram was “very encouraging”, but he was “very supportive of the view we need to learn more”.

He said it would be difficult for customers to get a good deal if the technology had only one supplier.

“Mature technologies need to have more than one supplier, otherwise you get this sort of effect,” he said.

“We’ve got to move ahead because our cities are growing. We’ve got to invest now.

“All governments should have their heads in looking at this. We should be looking at it for the future, but we should get on with what we’re doing now.” 
A trackless tram in Zhuzhou, in south China's Hunan province.

A trackless tram in Zhuzhou, in south China's Hunan province.

Professor Currie said CRRC was one of the largest rolling-stock companies in the world, if not the biggest.

“They’re an incredible organisation, but I was just at InnoTrans, the world’s largest exposition of railways, and they were there, but they didn’t have the trackless tram, which is interesting.

“Why would they not bring that along?”

He said other light rail alternatives coming out of Europe were more like buses.

The Transport for NSW spokesperson said the government’s Future Transport 2056 transport strategy was designed to “incorporate emerging technologies as they become viable transport options”.

The government says it will complete a strategic business case for extending Newcastle’s light rail line by the end of this year and place it on public exhibition early next year.

“The need for improved bus services is also being considered as part of the strategic business case,” the spokesperson said.

Makes sense! I have seen other articles that the tech is in its infancy. Hence the Bne metro project is unlikely to rush and use this type of technology unless there is huge  advancements by 2020?

• Tweet

[#Metro]

Makes sense! I have seen other articles that the tech is in its infancy. Hence the Bne metro project is unlikely to rush and use this type of technology unless there is huge  advancements by 2020?

You can outlicence technology to a local or other manufacturer. That gets around the "one supplier" issue neatly.

• Tweet

[verbatim9]

Makes sense! I have seen other articles that the tech is in its infancy. Hence the Bne metro project is unlikely to rush and use this type of technology unless there is huge  advancements by 2020?

You can outlicence technology to a local or other manufacturer. That gets around the "one supplier" issue neatly.

Do you think the Chinese consortium that's owns the tech will do this?

• Tweet

[#Metro]

Do you think the Chinese consortium that's owns the tech will do this?

It helps if you ask. Company is faced with getting 100% of nothing and being unable to sell anything in the AU and NZ region otherwise.

Could be a new industry here given the underutilised car and rail manufacturing plants around the country, coincidentally almost always located in places that need more jobs.

• Tweet

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1054771532407291909

• Tweet

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MelbUrbanist/status/1186741109755506688

• Tweet

[Gazza]

With these systems, why cant the optical guidance system essentially vary the path the tram follows within a certain range (say 300mm either side) so it doesn't wear ruts in the road?

• Tweet

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/trnsprtst/status/1186766486305738752

• Tweet

[verbatim9]

Sydney's new CBD light rail line is unlikely to be expanded because automated metro trains and so-called "trackless trams" are more suitable for the city's future needs, says NSW Transport Minister Andrew Constance. https://t.co/zhe5KryBXz

https://twitter.com/Schrinner/status/1206730425051172864

• Tweet

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/TomaszAndraszek/status/1212392476440268800

• Tweet

[verbatim9]

https://twitter.com/TomaszAndraszek/status/1212392476440268800

^^True electric rubber tyre trackless trams still have the Rubber Tyre fragment pollution.  While tradition electric trams with steel.wheels, track and overhead wiring are overall better for the local environment.

But with the car traffic on the Freeway right next to the busway as major contributor to rubber tyre particle air pollution; I don't think trackless trams (metro buses) will be an environmental issue.

• Tweet

[#Metro]

The post compared mode vs mode rather than mode vs project requirements and timing.

Is the capacity of LRT justified in the area at this time? What about funding horizons?

Provided that the bus has doors on both sides, and runs in class B ROW, is there really that much difference?

• Tweet