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Author Topic: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling  (Read 2538 times)

Offline #Metro

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Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« on: December 20, 2016, 05:56:43 AM »
Future Rail Network

Some thoughts on the direction of train services in Brisbane.
Too much time is wasted waiting and travelling. Here is one way it could be sped up. Maybe you have your own suggestions?

City

Infrastructure: ETCS 2
Cross River Rail with Trouts Road connector option

Cleveland Line

Phase 1:
15-minute trains from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days to Manly
30-minute trains to extend beyond Manly to Cleveland

Phase 2:
15-minute trains from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days to Manly (Terminus)
30-minute trains Express Park Road to Manly then all stops to Cleveland

Infrastructure: Consider track amplification or electrification of DG.

Beenleigh Line

Phase 1:
15-minute trains from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days to Kuraby

Phase 2:
15-minute trains from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days to Kuraby (Terminus)
30-minute trains Express Park Road to Kuraby, then all stops to Beenleigh.

Infrastructure: Cross River Rail, track amplification.

Gold Coast Line:

15-minute trains from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days to Gold Coast.

Infrastructure: Cross River Rail, track amplification.

Springfield Line:
15-minute trains from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days to Springfield.

Ipswich Line:

Phase 1:
30-minute trains Express Milton to Darra stopping only at Indooroopilly then all stops to Ipswich

Phase 2:
15-minute trains Express Milton to Darra stopping only at Indooroopilly then all stops to Ipswich
from 7 am - 7 pm

Ferny Grove
No changes

Airport Line
No changes

Doomben Line
No changes

Kippa Ring Line
Trains every 15 minutes from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days

Sunshine Coast Line

Infrastructure: track duplication. Look at tilt train / regional rapid rail to Sunshine Coast

Service every 30 minutes

Shorncliffe Line
Trains every 15 minutes from 7 am - 7 pm, 7 days

Infrastructure: Track duplication


References

Brizcommuter average journey speeds
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/average-journey-speeds-in-se-queensland.html

Doomben Line (9.9km) - 30kph
Ferny Grove Line (16.1km) - 31kph
Shorncliffe Line (20.7km)   34kph
Cleveland Line Manly peak all stations (24.1km) - 34kph
Beenleigh Line (40.1km) - 36kph
Airport Line (15.9km) - 40kph
Cleveland Line (37.3km) - Peak 41kph; Off Peak 36kph
Springfield Line (29.6km) - 43kph
Kippa-Ring Line (40.1km) - 44kph post-MBRL opening
Ipswich Line (38.6km) - Peak 46kph; Off Peak 40kph
Rosewood Line (57km) - Peak 47kph
Caboolture Line (49.6km) - 47kph; 58kph post-MBRL opening
Sunshine Coast Line/Nambour* (104.8km) - 55kph to 59kph; 58kph post-MBRL opening
Gold Coast Line (89.4km) - 68kph
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:52:37 AM by @Metro »
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2016, 08:30:35 AM »
Quote
Doomben Line
No changes
Make run 7 days a week?

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2016, 02:33:01 PM »
CRR with Trouts Rd? You are being rather optimistic.

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2016, 02:48:59 PM »
Santa can't afford all of that.

Offline SteelPan

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 01:47:38 PM »
London has embraced Night-tube
Melbourne now runs a full service on the weekend - others may check me on this, but my understanding is, Melbourne now runs a full timetable on the weekend????

Brisbane- commencing 2018 or so should embrace
24hr train services FRI & SAT nights, on all QR Metro lines - also look at doubling Nightlink buses [where req'd]. Introduce 24hr FRI & SAT night Kittykats - maybe Citykats too?

 :-t
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 02:05:01 PM »
London has embraced Night-tube
Melbourne now runs a full service on the weekend - others may check me on this, but my understanding is, Melbourne now runs a full timetable on the weekend????

Brisbane- commencing 2018 or so should embrace
24hr train services FRI & SAT nights, on all QR Metro lines - also look at doubling Nightlink buses [where req'd]. Introduce 24hr FRI & SAT night Kittykats - maybe Citykats too?

 :-t

You're dreaming mate!

Offline James

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2016, 02:24:11 PM »
London has embraced Night-tube
Melbourne now runs a full service on the weekend - others may check me on this, but my understanding is, Melbourne now runs a full timetable on the weekend????

Brisbane- commencing 2018 or so should embrace
24hr train services FRI & SAT nights, on all QR Metro lines - also look at doubling Nightlink buses [where req'd]. Introduce 24hr FRI & SAT night Kittykats - maybe Citykats too?

 :-t

London is one of the world's largest cities with a bustling nightlife, a population in excess of 10mil and significant population density.
Melbourne is a world-class city with 24/7 nightlife, a well-known entertainment scene and decent population density and PT culture.
Brisbane is a regressive backwater with 1am lockouts (from Feb 1), a pathetic entertainment scene, low population density and puts development before communities.

There is the difference, and that is why we're not going to see 24/7 PT. Heck, we can't even fill buses at 8am on a Tuesday morning, what hope do we have of filling them at 2am on a Sunday morning? I use the N413 at times - it gets a reasonable loading, and it'd be one of the best performing NightLink routes (large student population namely, runs along high density corridors), but it certainly doesn't warrant being run half-hourly outside the Christmas party season.

The only change I'd recommend to NightLink is bustituting the rail corridors and running them hourly - would be more useful than the one service around 3:45am.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline tazzer9

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2016, 11:18:54 AM »
Short term:  What we can do with current infrastructure, train numbers and small upgrades. 
Off peak: 
15 minutes shorncliffe-cleveland all stops, weekends the 15 minutes ends at manly.
15 minutes airport-roma st all stops.  including weekends
30 minutes doomben-gold coast express.  Including weekends
30 minutes ferny grove - altandi all stops. weekends get curtailed to coopers plains
30 minutes ferny grove - beenleigh all stops
15 minutes springfield - kippa ring ring all stops (but express northgate-bowen hills stopping at at EJ)
15 minute Ipswich - caboolture on the current express pattern for both.
30 minutes rosewood but not as a shuttle, just every 2nd Ipswich train is extended.  Weekends is hourly
30 minutes to landsborough and hourly to nambour, on the current pattern (extensions of caboolture). weekends is just hourly to nambour, no landsborough services.


Peak. 
More or less the same as now, but with the peak and shoulder-peak frequencies being extended.
More cleveland expresses, like alot more.
More gold coast trains
Maybe some limited stops beenleigh trains in the shoulder peaks.

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2016, 12:54:04 PM »
Short term:  What we can do with current infrastructure, train numbers and small upgrades. 
Off peak: 
15 minutes shorncliffe-cleveland all stops, weekends the 15 minutes ends at manly.
15 minutes airport-roma st all stops.  including weekends
30 minutes doomben-gold coast express.  Including weekends
30 minutes ferny grove - altandi all stops. weekends get curtailed to coopers plains
30 minutes ferny grove - beenleigh all stops
15 minutes springfield - kippa ring ring all stops (but express northgate-bowen hills stopping at at EJ)
15 minute Ipswich - caboolture on the current express pattern for both.
30 minutes rosewood but not as a shuttle, just every 2nd Ipswich train is extended.  Weekends is hourly
30 minutes to landsborough and hourly to nambour, on the current pattern (extensions of caboolture). weekends is just hourly to nambour, no landsborough services.


Peak. 
More or less the same as now, but with the peak and shoulder-peak frequencies being extended.
More cleveland expresses, like alot more.
More gold coast trains
Maybe some limited stops beenleigh trains in the shoulder peaks.

Have you noticed there is a lack of drivers?
Significant improvements to peak and off-peak service will not be seen until after the commonwealth games at the earliest.

Offline Arnz

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2016, 03:44:47 PM »
QR has a tradition of over-promising and under-delivering in recent years which started back in the late ALP Bligh administration which later escalated during the LNP Newman administration to the mess we have now under the current ALP Palaszczuk administration.

Although there is a no brainer solution (e.g shuttling Kippa-Ring to Petrie with a few 3-car units) whilst reverting to the pre-MBRL timetable, It isn't going to be done anytime soon, likely for political reasons.

I would suggest another solution.  Running all peak services as 6-car (except Rosewood & certain peak Airport/Doomben services isolated to doing RST-DBN-RST-BDT-RST-DBN, etc).  This means less services and overcrowding on certain services, but at the same time reduces driver/guard requirements and reduces the "ZOMG 3-car at Peak" complaints on the trunk services as well.

A suggestion is to start at the base 12 min peak frequency on all lines and build it from there (excluding Doomben, Rosewood, Airport & Sunshine Coast lines).  Doomben & Ipswich-Rosewood shuttles would operate every 30 mins during peak, Airport every 15 minutes and Sunshine Coast lines every 24 minutes (extension of every 2nd CAB Peak train).

Stopping patterns would be tricky.  But the lines that would retain the express runs would be Ipswich (peak only), Kippa-Ring (exp Inner North only), Gold Coast and Caboolture/Nambour until more resources (drivers & trains) are available to reintroduce Cleveland expresses.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Offline tazzer9

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2016, 05:07:31 PM »
Short term:  What we can do with current infrastructure, train numbers and small upgrades. 
Off peak: 
15 minutes shorncliffe-cleveland all stops, weekends the 15 minutes ends at manly.
15 minutes airport-roma st all stops.  including weekends
30 minutes doomben-gold coast express.  Including weekends
30 minutes ferny grove - altandi all stops. weekends get curtailed to coopers plains
30 minutes ferny grove - beenleigh all stops
15 minutes springfield - kippa ring ring all stops (but express northgate-bowen hills stopping at at EJ)
15 minute Ipswich - caboolture on the current express pattern for both.
30 minutes rosewood but not as a shuttle, just every 2nd Ipswich train is extended.  Weekends is hourly
30 minutes to landsborough and hourly to nambour, on the current pattern (extensions of caboolture). weekends is just hourly to nambour, no landsborough services.


Peak. 
More or less the same as now, but with the peak and shoulder-peak frequencies being extended.
More cleveland expresses, like alot more.
More gold coast trains
Maybe some limited stops beenleigh trains in the shoulder peaks.

Have you noticed there is a lack of drivers?
Significant improvements to peak and off-peak service will not be seen until after the commonwealth games at the earliest.

I said under current infrastructure.   We could run my proposed timetable for 1 week fairly smoothly and then hell break lose.  But its still possible

Offline #Metro

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2016, 05:26:56 PM »

I am glad that there is now some discussion around what service patterns we could aim at when sufficient trains and staff become available.

Though I think it is more a staffing thing, as plenty of trains are in stabling during the interpeak and off-peak times.

I support the eventual phase-out of guards, convert them to drivers for the expanded train services.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 06:42:22 AM »
Queensland Times 1st March 2017 page 4

Hey Premier, don’t forget Rosewood train line

Quote

TRAINS will need to run every 15 minutes and 12 hours a day on the Ipswich-Rosewood line in future, and Ipswich council has put the State Government on notice to that effect.

Ipswich City Council mostly supports the State Government’s draft South East Queensland Regional Plan.

But planning boss Cr Andrew Antoniolli said that there were “push back points” that needed further consideration and that the council had included them in their response to the draft plan.

One of those was the need for a commitment to the future of the Rosewood-Ipswich rail line, with projections showing the Walloon to Rosewood corridor will be home to more than 52,000 people by 2041.

The council has told the State there would be sufficient demand for the provision of a 7am to 7pm, seven-day-a-week service between Rosewood and Ipswich with trains running every 15 minutes.

“They didn’t give sufficient reference to the need for an adequate level of service on the Rosewood line so we are asking for that to be included,” Cr Antoniolli said.

“If we don’t mention it now it won’t be on their radar.

“Our submission is that their should be a provision for more regular services to take into account the projected growth in the Walloon to Rosewood corridor.”

Rosewood-based Cr David Pahlke said there would be demand for an increase in rail services which needed to be recognised if the State was serious about people using public transport.

“The service is spasmodic now and that is why it is not utilised now,” he said.

“My son finds it quicker to drive to Ipswich rather than wait for a train for another hour.

“The station isn’t always manned and I have had complaints about that.

“I won’t see (the projected growth) , but if you are going to put developments in you have to get the public transport in there to go with it.”
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 10:20:26 AM »
Queensland Times 1st March 2017 page 4

Hey Premier, don’t forget Rosewood train line

Quote

TRAINS will need to run every 15 minutes and 12 hours a day on the Ipswich-Rosewood line in future, and Ipswich council has put the State Government on notice to that effect.

Ipswich City Council mostly supports the State Government’s draft South East Queensland Regional Plan.

But planning boss Cr Andrew Antoniolli said that there were “push back points” that needed further consideration and that the council had included them in their response to the draft plan.

One of those was the need for a commitment to the future of the Rosewood-Ipswich rail line, with projections showing the Walloon to Rosewood corridor will be home to more than 52,000 people by 2041.

The council has told the State there would be sufficient demand for the provision of a 7am to 7pm, seven-day-a-week service between Rosewood and Ipswich with trains running every 15 minutes.

“They didn’t give sufficient reference to the need for an adequate level of service on the Rosewood line so we are asking for that to be included,” Cr Antoniolli said.

“If we don’t mention it now it won’t be on their radar.

“Our submission is that their should be a provision for more regular services to take into account the projected growth in the Walloon to Rosewood corridor.”

Rosewood-based Cr David Pahlke said there would be demand for an increase in rail services which needed to be recognised if the State was serious about people using public transport.

“The service is spasmodic now and that is why it is not utilised now,” he said.

“My son finds it quicker to drive to Ipswich rather than wait for a train for another hour.

“The station isn’t always manned and I have had complaints about that.

“I won’t see (the projected growth) , but if you are going to put developments in you have to get the public transport in there to go with it.”
It won't happen for years due to driver shortage, but if there is demand some of the every 6 min am peak services could start from Rosewood allowing for 12 or 18 min service gaps.

Offline Arnz

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2017, 10:49:13 AM »
2018 Post Comm games (and driver shortage issues) suggestions. Off-peak pattern.
Peak Pattern very much the same or slightly more in the original Oct 2016 timetable.

15 mins Shorncliffe to Manly/30 mins to Cleveland.
15 mins Airport to Roma Street/30 mins to Gold Coast
30 mins Doomben-Roma street (7 days including Sundays)
15 mins Ferny Grove to Altandi/30 mins to Beenleigh
15 mins Springfield to Kippa Ring (on the current stopping pattern Bowen Hills to EJ to Northgate & v.v).
30 mins Ipswich to Landsborough (Weekdays)/Caboolture (Weekday evening after 7pm/Weekends). (Extension of existing Caboolture interpeak off-peak services to Landsborough on the current express patterns on both lines.  Weekday evenings after 7pm and Weekends that frequency terminates at Caboolture)
60 mins Ipswich to Nambour (Hourly beyond Landsborough).
30 mins Ipswich to Rosewood shuttles using 2x 3-car units.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

achiruel

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2017, 01:48:32 PM »
Should the Ipswich line extend to Wulkaraka and shuttle between W. and Rosewood? Are there good operational reasons not to do this?

Offline aldonius

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2017, 02:05:38 PM »
I don't see any reason why we can't extend Ipswich services to Wulkaraka. I'd still send the Rosewood shuttles into Ipswich proper though.

Offline dancingmongoose

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2017, 02:25:51 PM »
I think the biggest issue would be that Thomas Street and Wulkuraka aren't full length platforms (well Wulkuraka is but only half the platforms are open, another half baked QLD project)

Online bretto82

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2017, 02:33:00 PM »
Actually wulkuraka may seem to be long enough for six cars where it is only about 4.5 give or take a bit and as for terminating trains there will not work well in practice as pax need to change by over bridge and the turnouts associated with the wmc would allow it it would slow the coal trains as they would be held further away to allow crosses to happen

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2017, 02:44:58 PM »
Just like shuttles between Ippy and Rosewood, shuttles between Nambour and Gympie North, or the odd terminating service at Cooroy, the station serving Noosa.  (There are plans for a Cooroy bus interchange.)

Offline tazzer9

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2017, 05:03:45 PM »
One major issue I see with terminating trains at thomas st or wulkuraka is that they are running lines.    You don't want to be stopping loaded coal trains unnecessarily but you also want trains towards ipswich/brisbane to always be using the same platform.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2017, 05:28:24 PM »
All you need is a simple turnback siding, there's room on either side of the main line for it.  (Putting it in the middle to avoid flat crosses is unnecessary given traffic volume in the long run, particularly if virtually all the freight ends up going to Kagaru.)

Offline aldonius

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2017, 05:48:21 PM »
Doing it properly: Wulkaraka as an island platform a little further east. New crossover from the depot to the Ipswich-bound track on the Rosewood side of the station.

Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2017, 10:24:37 PM »
It will unlikely ever be a terminating station for many various and valid reasons.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 10:31:09 PM by HappyTrainGuy »
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Offline tazzer9

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Re: Future Rail Network Service Patterns and Timetabling
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2017, 07:26:56 AM »
It will unlikely ever be a terminating station for many various and valid reasons.
I generally agree, however I do see thomas st being a starting station.   

 

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