Discussion: Options for competitive tendering / privatisation of rail

[#Metro]

Privatisation of train and bus operations can work well. A few cases detailed in the IA report.


HOWEVER, the process to getting there needs to be performed correctly, otherwise, you can cook up a disaster.

It would be better for operations to be privatised under Red Team rather than Blue Team because Blue Team don't seem to

do any quality control and the whole internal discussion/criticism doesn't exist there. Red Team on the other hand has

opponents for contacting out and that will work to strengthen any final proposal.


The key thing is that we do not allow the operator to keep all revenue or be paid for passenger counts (franchise). The model that

seems to work is one where operators are paid for services not passengers. Transport is a derived demand and thus

operators do not have that much influence over passenger patronage. Nobody catches a bus or train for the "customer service

experience". If patronage were to dip suddenly in Melbourne (e.g. economic downturn), there would be a major problem for operators

there IMHO.


Blue Team don't do nuance or consultation very well it seems and that is my greatest concern - that they introduce the Melbourne model

into Queensland because they don't know any better and didn't bother to spend the time finding out the how and why.

Far better to build upon what we already have and works here in Queensland. And yes, it is better with a dedicated

and proper regulator such as PTQ. The regulator must have the powers to hire, fire, fine and sue so that it can enforce its contracts

in courts.

[ozbob]

Going to be a lot riding on the state election.

Do not forget the only saving grace for the Citytrain Response Unit as far as I am concerned is that they are charged with looking at the best way to deliver public transport from the organisational point of view.  I expect they will come up with a model similar to PTA, PTV.  Such proper authorities can do well either with public or private operators.

LNP still have not declared any real public transport policy.  This could end up being their Achilles heel  ...

ALP will start declaring their hand soon with the budget and so forth.  I sense they might well go shortly after the budget.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Public Transport Queensland represents the best structure for implementing a PT franchise model.

SEQ already has private operators, however with the exception of Gold Coast Light Rail and Brisbane CityCats, these private

operators are essentially a monopoly. They will always get their contracts renewed, no matter what. Awarding contracts this way

is against the merit principle.


Contracts should not go to suppliers based on the idea that "we have always done it this way".

But you have to remember PT isn't even organised up here. Buses do not dump people at train stations. Theres only so many trains you can run to meet demand as there aren't major trip generators along the line which you can find on other railway lines. Not to mention you can not run additional services without translink approving it or someone else footing the bill. That's what we see with the BCC propping up its PT network by some 120 million/33% or whatever was written on the 357 a couple months back each year. We saw issues with that in the timetabling where QR changed rosters and rollingstock routes in a couple days while it took nearly a month for translink to approve 2 trains swapping around. You can't apply the same here if Metro win it will be a win for Queenslanders. It won't. They'll gut it like the did in Melbourne. MTCE blows out. They'll utilise loopholes in contracts. And they will be limited by what translink sets. Remember Metro has gotten really lucky with their network mtce recently as most of it has been upgraded due to the state government acquiring new rollingstock and upgrading its lines.

There is no guarantee that Queensland would be better off. You might get some cash short term but at the same time you might see a railway operator using loopholes to bypass stations full of people waiting for a train with mtce bills doubling in the long term so shareholders can make a profit. Not to mention that the BCC is very anti railway so you might like to see TODs around stations but the BCC doesn't want to play ball which once again stifles your patronage levels.

The mess is going to continue to happen no matter how people try to dress it up. The majority of people in Brisbane don't really see PT as an issue as everyone is heavily focused on their own motor vehicles and BCC treating the bus network as a political tool for local residents/wards. And something has to change starting with Translink and TMR.

[#Metro]

"No guarantee"

Was a guarantee offered with the current failing public setup?

There IS a guarantee under privatisation - bad operators get the boot.

Loopholes. What about that very big loophole where QR gets its contract extended no matter whether it meets its Translink contractual obligations or not.

Or if you are a board member or executive, you get to keep your job whether or not Christmas day trains are cancelled or Easter services don't connect with buses. Randomised timetabling? No problem!

People who advocate for pubic monopoly operation no matter what have no bottom limit to how low service standards fall. " Just extend the contract again" is their reply.

Because it's not an asset sale, contracting is reversible, reducing risk.

If QR etc are that good, let them fend off five companies for the contract.

[HappyTrainGuy]

So clueless.

Bye.

[Gazza]

I think there is a simple guarantee.....If a private operator is bad, the government can give then the boot.
If a public operator is bad, the public simply give the government the boot.

[#Metro]

If a public operator is bad, the public simply give the government the boot.

Great. Boot the gov't and get a gov't that has the balls to remove this operator and get another one.

[#Metro]

I don't think cost reduction should be the main reason - I can imagine a fixed cost system where the amount on offer is a set amount and

contenders compete on non-price offers. But it helps.


In the Scandinavian case, trains are privatised at every level: national long distance trains, regional trains and local metros. MTR operates them.

My understanding is that they have a public operator for national trains, but that must compete on an equal basis and share tracks.

I am not sure which trains have been contracted out in the German case, perhaps that refers to cross-border services? Not sure.

Then there is NZ where the Wellington and Auckland Trains are privately operated by TransDev. Same company that does our CityCat ferries.




From
http://infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/files/Customer-Focused-Franchising.pdf

[#Metro]

Was looking through the technical appendix to IA's report. Something interesting.

2.2 Annual operating costs
The following adjusted annual operating costs3
(indexed to 31 December 2016) were used in the calculation of
the franchise savings. The values include employee and maintenance expenses but exclude depreciation,
amortisation and financing costs, where separately identifiable.

2.2 Annual operating costs (December 2016 $)

Queensland Rail 1,115.02 million (A)
Transperth 354.07 million (B)

Dividing A into B gives 3.14.

In other words, QR cost three times as much to run as TransPerth, but provides less service frequency than the Perth network.

These are purely operational costs.

Not really sure how to interpret this observation. 

http://infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/files/Final-Franchising-technical-report.pdf

[ozbob]

^ I think we need to be a little circumspect with the figures.

Queensland Rail operating costs may well include Travel Train services as well.  It is not always clear that.

Transperth is well demarcated from Transwa, likewise Sydney trains from NSW TrainLink and Melbourne Metro from V/line. Not so Queensland Rail.

This might go to explain part of the huge cost differential between Queensland Rail and Transperth.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Is it time for a stand-alone public transport body in Queensland?

Is time running out for Queensland Rail as we know it?

Since October 2016 Queensland Rail has had a terrible time getting trains to arrive  on time.

Queensland Rail's March 2017 figures now show one in every 10 trains does not arrive on time.

Should the Queensland government now look at having a non-government transport operator putting in a bid to run Queensland Rail?

That has happened in Melbourne, almost 20 years ago. Ninety-nine per cent of their trains now arrive time.

If Queensland did allow someone else to run our passenger trains, would it really mean more than $3 billion could be saved by 2040, as Infrastructure Australia reported on Friday?

Or would it mean major job losses and a similar level of service, with a different coat of paint, as Queensland's Rail, Tram and Bus Union believes.

Two years ago, there were problems with the new Melbourne Metro, which were reported by Fairfax Media.

Interestingly, the private consortia running the Melbourne Metro received $1.18 billion in subsidies and $11.78 million in "incentive payments" in 2013-14, but there was criticism their trains were simply skipping stops to meet "on time" running targets.

That was 2015.

Is it better now?

Earlier this year, Fairfax Media also reported dumb, sexist and bullying behaviour from Melbourne Metro train drivers.

    "Queensland Rail needs to understand that their future is on the line here."
    Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow

Melbourne Metro says the problems are not widespread and its on-time running is improving, not worsening like Queensland Rail.

Many questions should be asked about Queensland Rail and Transport for Brisbane, Brisbane City Council's bus division.

In south-east Queensland are we – as commuters – satisfied with the performance of Queensland Rail in failing to have enough drivers to cope with expansion on the south-east Queensland train network?

Should Queensland have a stand-alone "Public Transport Queensland" which runs all buses, trains and ferries, similar to Victoria, Western Australia and South Australia?

Are we satisfied – as commuters, with the job Queensland Rail and the Department of Transport did when the new rail line from Kippa Ring was delayed for months because two communications systems did not talk to us.

Should we – as commuters – worry when Commissioner Phillip Strachan handed down an extremely critical report into an under-performing Queensland Rail on February 27, 2017?

Is it time that a stand-alone transport operator also ran Brisbane City Council's bus operations?

In August 2016, it was revealed that some Brisbane City Council bus services were taking 25 minutes longer to complete their runs than their timetables allowed.

Brisbane City Council' s deputy mayor and Public and Active Travel committee chairman Adrian Schrinner said Brisbane City Council would not change its Transport for Brisbane division, which runs Brisbane City Council buses.

"Council has no plans to change its current contract arrangements for Transport for Brisbane, under which Council is a service provider to Translink," Cr Schrinner said.

"Brisbane City Council has one of the largest and the most modern bus fleet in Australia, which is a result of significant investment in recent years.  This financial year alone Council is investing $122.6 million into bus infrastructure and services."

What about our CityCats, which are already run in a franchise agreement with Brisbane City Council?

There have been complaints about CityCats colliding with rowers in 2012 and 2015 and staffing issues emerged in November 2015.

Cr Shrinner said Brisbane City Council's 10-year contract with Transdev to run the CityCat fleet expired in 2020 and they were happy with Transdev's performance.

However, Queensland's two major parties were both virtually silent about the public transport report when it was issued on Friday morning.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk only answered questions about the ability of any savings – the $3.3 billion – being able to be directed to Brisbane's $5.4 billion Cross River Rail underground rail project linking Brisbane's north and south.

"I'm starting to think about Infrastructure Australia not being really serious about considering our projects, that's the message I'm starting to get," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"Once again we're changing goal posts," she said.

Transport Minister Jackie Trad was too busy with Adani Mine negotiations to answer questions about trains on Friday. She launched this response to Phillip Strachan's report into Queensland Rail's failings in late March.

But there is a lot more to Infrastructure Australia's report, that was not discussed by the Queensland Government on Friday.

Rail Back on Track – Queensland public transport commuter group – is clear that change is in the wind for Queensland Rail.

"I've felt for some time that there is grave doubt for Queensland Rail's future," Rail Back on Track's spokesman Robert Dow said.

"We really have a very serious issue now because we have very poor co-ordination between bus and rail particularly," he said.

Mr Dow believes Queensland Rail should be reshaped as part of a single public transport body, a Public Transport Queensland, which oversees all trains, buses, and ferries in different divisions.

"The only way we think things can be progressed is if pressure can be bought to bear on the original operators," he said

"I think this (report) is timely because it is following on from a disastrous period in service delivery from Queensland Rail," he said.

Queensland Rail's figures show fewer trains arrived on time in 2017 than they did last year.

In fact, Queensland Rail since October 2016 is repeatedly not meeting its own standards to have trains run on time.

Mr Dow said the public transport "franchise" debate was important, because there were several examples where franchising public transport services was working; the Gold Coast's light rail project, Brisbane's City Cats and Melbourne Metro in more recent times.

"Queensland Rail needs to understand that their future is on the line here," he said.

"If there is a change of government at the next state election, we are pretty confident the LNP would move to franchise Queensland Rail," he said.

"And I'm pretty sure they will take on Brisbane Transport (Brisbane City Council's transport arm) as well."

The Queensland Opposition's public transport spokesman Andrew Powell was unwilling to comment on Friday despite several attempts by Fairfax Media.

Fairfax Media pressed several times until we got a message.

"On this occasion we've decided not to comment on the IA report on rail," it said.

"Thanks for the opportunity."

So many questions, with so few willing to debate.

[ozbob]

^ I think the non-response from Mr Powell pretty much confirms their position don't you think?

[Gazza]

Drives a wedge. Labor can accuse LNP of their "secret plan to privatise rail, while we have a taskforce to improve it"
LNP will be unable to deny the accusation.

Regardless of what benefits privatising operations may bring, the response is pretty clear from the public that it will be bloody hard work to explain it.
http://imgur.com/a/d4kVi

[#Metro]

Discussion about privatisation has now gone into the public domain.

The TTF, Infrastructure Australia and mainstream media are all discussing it now.

Glad that discussion about this controversial topic has been allowed on the forum.

Clearly, it is on the horizon now.

The only people that don't want to talk about it are the two major parties. And its not surprising - Red Team must be absolutely

exasperated that nothing they do seems to be working and even now they still have major communications disconnect between QR and the

Transport Minister. Blue Team want to try it out but they don't want to hand Red Team privatisation scare campaign material.

[#Metro]

With competitive contracting, I suspect there will be none of this intervention from political HQ over:

(a) who the CEO will be by using ministerial veto powers to override the merit selection committee

(b) what the job advertisement wording will say (and perhaps restricting that in a certain way)

(c) the staffing levels and mix, and/or inclusion of the organisation in political large-scale public sector staff cut programs

These things can be handled by the top level management of the company. Does the deputy premier or their chief of staff in Victoria sign off on

Metro or Yarra Trams job advertisements? Doubt it.

Queensland Rail: Job ads restricted to former train drivers

Copies of draft job advertisements, released to The Courier-Mail under RTI this week, reveal QR had been poised to open the driver jobs to anyone with train-driving experience.

But a second approved version of the ad was created the same day omitting the word "or" – essentially locking out anyone without prior QR experience, including interstate drivers.

Queensland Rail: Job ads restricted to former train drivers

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/queensland-rail-job-ads-restricted-to-former-train-drivers/news-story/275d8a8dd5d4ab825778e4041b630c09

[#Metro]

My personal view is that railway assets should never be privatised. All you have to do is look at how Aurizon has performed since the split. Cutting contracts that don't make anything for shareholders. More freight on the roads. Locals are lobbying for Queensland Rail to resume freight services. Pretty sure Queensland Rail have also resumed some cattletrain contracts and are looking at resuming some freight operations. Towns going under because the railway staff, industries and their staff move away. But their stocks keep going up and the shareholder gets more.

You look in at Metro and see that everything is all fine and dandy. You like the frequency. Since its privatised its good for others. But that's just you looking in. You don't know anything about how the railways actually work. Connex was pretty crap but they had their own issues. The last operator drove it into the ground. Connex took over with a lack of drivers and staff from the previous owner and thus copped flack. They built up their OTP levels. Then came the issues with the Siemens trains. Works on the inner city core and a few other projects contributed to constant delays. Patronage growth continued as the petrol price skyrocketed which resulted in overcrowding on a network already hampered with the existing issues and lower OTP. Maintenance took a hit so stations and trains started to look old, worn out and grubby. Shareholders took a hit due to missing OTP targets. The government announced an increase in funding and used PT as a political campaign which is when Metro swooped in. Now it seems every year PT is being heavily invested in. They worked their social media side hard to present a good image (compared to the one Connex left behind). Had changes to how OTP was determined. Utilised loopholes to have a higher OTP even if it meant randomly expressing multiple trains past hundreds of waiting commuters. I'll give them credit for hiring more staff but they still try to pull fast ones with EA - but who doesn't. Its easier dealing with EA with Metro as they are the ones that face penalties so if you stuff around the workers their shareholders take the brunt. But in saying that they've had their annual budget increased by something like 200% to something around 1.1-1.3 billion (which is more than it costs Queensland Rail for its state operations). Many of the issues due to lack of mtce has only been resolved due to the state government stepping in with new mtce facilities, track infrastructure upgrades and rollingstock phase out (similar to our NGR project). But this isn't the thread for it.

You have no bottom limit HTG.  Your position is to extend, extend, extend the Queensland Rail service contact, come what may.

Not even our highest elected politicians have this luxury. They can be voted out of office and lose their seat, and their jobs

reviewed every three years in competitive elections.


Why bother having service standards if they cannot or will not be enforced?

And of course the government in Victoria has the money to do these upgrades because the ALP and Daniel Andrews down there

are pragmatists and offloaded the Port and other state assets.

My personal view is that railway assets should never be privatised.

The assets are not being privatised, the management is. It is not an asset sale.

Contracting out is a reversible process, just let the contract expire or fire the operator if the infraction is serious.

Such provisions exist within the GC LRT contracts IIRC.

[#Metro]

Angry customers hit out over QR rail fail

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/angry-customers-hit-out-over-qr-rail-fail/news-story/04cbfd0fd7d0c12be5ba195393e1431e

"The Minister for Transport should be fired! This rail service provider has to many epic fails in 1 year! Fix QR or sell it off so Someone can fix this rail service provider," one commuter wrote.

[Gazza]

Why bother having service standards if they cannot or will not be enforced?

Cant they just more readily sack underperforming managers, as you would do in other government departments like health or education.

[#Metro]

Cant they just more readily sack underperforming managers, as you would do in other government departments like health or education.

You tell me. The same faces (more or less) are on the QR board and executive leadership team as they were when Rail Fail started in September last year.

Two are gone, as has the minister, but the problems are still there.

Perhaps someone can inform me, but isn't there a no-forced redundancy clause in operation as well?

Does this apply to executives in the executive leadership team?

The other problem with this approach is that it might be "the culture" which implies everyone in general and nobody in particular, or at least no particular manager.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

Diffusion of responsibility is a sociopsychological phenomenon whereby a person is less likely to take responsibility for action or inaction when others are present. Considered a form of attribution, the individual assumes that others either are responsible for taking action or have already done so.

[#Metro]

Okay, driver shortage - Previous Government slicing a lot of driver and driver training positions.
NGR - That's TMR, not QR.
RPL - Again TMR, QR was excluded from the construction work/design etc
Track/Rollingstock fails - What happens when Governments of any side fails to invest in a network, also not terribly unusual compared to other cities - I'm seeing daily delays on the Metro Melbourne website.
Comms fail - Only thing QR needs to work on, difficult though if they don't know what the issue is, and then a timeframe of how long it might take to get the network back up and running again can't really happened until the problem is identified and they've begun troubleshooting it.

What's next?  More blame on the operator when it's more complex than that?

Also, can anyone tell me if management or Government is meant to know any nook and crannie of every tiny operational thing it takes to operate a railway?  Seriously.  Unless you are a foamer or a gunzel, then it's highly unlikely that you will and you won't know until either someone tells you or something like yesterday goes balls up.

And no, a new operator doesn't magically make the issues go away and complexities of running a major railway any easier.

The problem with constantly defending QR, is that it is straining public credibility. The State of Queensland and QR are the same thing.
Transport Minister Jackie Trad is in control of both TMR and QR, and they both answer to and (in theory) are under her control. The same is true for previous administrations.

The current philosophy is protecting the public monopoly at any and all costs is Priority #1. That overrides any and all other considerations.

In such a system of beliefs, there exists no other options other than to extend the contract again and again and again, no matter what happens. Look, even the customers are sick of QR, to the point that the 1 star ratings have accumulated so much that the reviews section of QR's Facebook got deleted.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is madness.

A new operator won't magically make the issues go away and the complexities of running a major railway any easier

Well I notice that you are not claiming that keeping the same operator will magically make the issues go away and make the complexities of running QR easier, either. Given the same management (more or less) is on the board and executive leadership team, if anything, it will be harder.

Time to boot the management and get competent privatised management installed at Queensland Rail. The current set of 'public only' options has been exhausted and do not work IMO.

Will it take a #RailFail during the Commonwealth Games to change minds?

Bring in RATP from Paris or MTR from Hong Kong, or at the very least start the Expression of Interest (EOI) process.

[STB]

Okay, driver shortage - Previous Government slicing a lot of driver and driver training positions.
NGR - That's TMR, not QR.
RPL - Again TMR, QR was excluded from the construction work/design etc
Track/Rollingstock fails - What happens when Governments of any side fails to invest in a network, also not terribly unusual compared to other cities - I'm seeing daily delays on the Metro Melbourne website.
Comms fail - Only thing QR needs to work on, difficult though if they don't know what the issue is, and then a timeframe of how long it might take to get the network back up and running again can't really happened until the problem is identified and they've begun troubleshooting it.

What's next?  More blame on the operator when it's more complex than that?

Also, can anyone tell me if management or Government is meant to know any nook and crannie of every tiny operational thing it takes to operate a railway?  Seriously.  Unless you are a foamer or a gunzel, then it's highly unlikely that you will and you won't know until either someone tells you or something like yesterday goes balls up.

And no, a new operator doesn't magically make the issues go away and complexities of running a major railway any easier.

The problem with a position like this STB is that there can never exist any evidence that one could put forward that would persuade one to choose another operator.

Protecting the public monopoly at any and all costs is Priority #1 in that framework, and that overrides any and all other considerations.

In such a system of beliefs, there exists no other options other than to extend the contract again and again and again, no matter what happens. Even the customers are sick of QR, to the point that the 1 star ratings have accumulated so much that the reviews section of QR's Facebook got deleted.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is madness.

A new operator won't magically make the issues go away and the complexities of running a major railway any easier

Well I notice that you are not claiming that keeping the same operator will magically make the issues go away and make the complexities of running QR easier, either.

Time to boot the management and get competent privatised management installed at Queensland Rail. The current set of 'public only' options has been exhaused and do not work IMO.

Bring in RATP from Paris or MTR from Hong Kong.

Public operators can be reconfigured to get them working again.  Cityrail in NSW was horrendous back in the 90s and into the 2000s, there was a complete overhaul of Cityrail with that brand name removed and the organisation redone completely.  It now runs quite well from what I've seen and know.

QR has undergone changes throughout history, some of it has worked, some of it hasn't.  At the moment, the way QR is set up (along with other parts of Government such as TMR) doesn't seem to be working, not helped by cutbacks in funding and powers (such how TransLink has been slowly neutered since it was first set up in 2004, it's heyday being around the mid-late 00s with wide ranging changes to bus networks and other management changes with the bus companies.  It doesn't mean it can't be revisited and altered to fit in (eg: RBOT's overall view that there should be a PTQ - of which I generally agree with).  Even Perth's system is public, but the way it's set up and the way it's funded makes that system work very well (along with its history of being a more newer system, Qld's railway wasn't even meant to be a passenger railway historically but more for moving resources like coal, farming etc and hence we have a lot of freight mixing with trains and a railway with a centralised network that isn't good if something goes balls up like yesterday).

Even with a private operator, it doesn't mean that they would react differently to what happened yesterday, everyone in the organisation is human, and they can only react to what is humanly possible.  I'm not sure if anyone realised that the antenna on the hill had a failed battery until someone physically went up the hill to look at it, of which it was then repaired.

[#Metro]

Public operators can be reconfigured to get them working again.  Cityrail in NSW was horrendous back in the 90s and into the 2000s, there was a complete overhaul of Cityrail with that brand name removed and the organisation redone completely.  It now runs quite well from what I've seen and know.

You can spend the time to make your own, or you could just buy it. Comparing the NSW case to the Victorian case, the Victorians just fired the operator and got a new one in. Next.

QR has undergone changes throughout history, some of it has worked, some of it hasn't.  At the moment, the way QR is set up (along with other parts of Government such as TMR) doesn't seem to be working, not helped by cutbacks in funding and powers (such how TransLink has been slowly neutered since it was first set up in 2004, it's heyday being around the mid-late 00s with wide ranging changes to bus networks and other management changes with the bus companies.  It doesn't mean it can't be revisited and altered to fit in (eg: RBOT's overall view that there should be a PTQ - of which I generally agree with).  Even Perth's system is public, but the way it's set up and the way it's funded makes that system work very well (along with its history of being a more newer system, Qld's railway wasn't even meant to be a passenger railway historically but more for moving resources like coal, farming etc and hence we have a lot of freight mixing with trains and a railway with a centralised network that isn't good if something goes balls up like yesterday).

You can't enforce standards when they are falling if you don't have fines, suing, or termination of contract powers. Hence the mess we are in right now, both with the trains and the buses. By all means, bring in PTQ. Perth only stopped short of going the full process, I think given enough time they would move to full completion. The pathway that triggered this mess in QLD could concieveably be recreated within the Perth setup IMO.

Remember, you can't include QR staff in a public servant cuts programme it they're not public servants. I also think that a private operator would have taken a keen interest in what trains were being ordered for NGR and would have pushed back against the gov't if they found out the design was disability non-compliant, as it would be the operator who would be on the hook for fines if they ran them.

Even with a private operator, it doesn't mean that they would react differently to what happened yesterday, everyone in the organisation is human, and they can only react to what is humanly possible.  I'm not sure if anyone realised that the antenna on the hill had a failed battery until someone physically went up the hill to look at it, of which it was then repaired.

If a private operator makes a mistake, they lose money. If a public operator makes a mistake the consequence is ...?

[Gazza]

Two are gone, as has the minister, but the problems are still there.

There is a difference between the problem still being there, and the problem in the process of being solved.

You are making it sound as if sacking those key QR staff should have resolved the problems instantaneously.

If it were the case that:
-No new guards and drivers were being trained.
-These problems weren't improving after a reasonable period for training to occur (Say 12 months)

I keep seeing you use the phrase that QRs standards are unenforceable?
But why is it healthcare standards can be enforced? Or standards in schools? Or standards in the police force?

[#Metro]

It's not hard to call a spade a spade.

Just don't renew Queensland Rail's contract. Don't renew it. Given all the evidence, it's the right thing to do.

These changes should not be limited to public bodies like QR.

The private bus contracts (monopolists) should be treated just the same - off to competition.

It would finally give TransLink the ultimate regulatory powers that it needs - hire and fire powers.

You could spend the time with inquiries, investigations, CRU etc.

Or you could just enforce the contract - and get someone else. Plenty of grounds for replacement now.

Customers/Passengers would certainly appreciate it (glad I saved the image hey, since it "disappeared"):

[HappyTrainGuy]

Anyone remember how Metro built two new stations and they sat dormant for 6 months because trains tripped circuit breakers shutting down whole sections of track for drawing too much power from the overheads? I can't recall if they had to build a whole new feeder station or just upgraded existing ones but whatever it was it was a costly fix.

Public operators can be reconfigured to get them working again.  Cityrail in NSW was horrendous back in the 90s and into the 2000s, there was a complete overhaul of Cityrail with that brand name removed and the organisation redone completely.  It now runs quite well from what I've seen and know.

You can spend the time to make your own, or you could just buy it. Comparing the NSW case to the Victorian case, the Victorians just fired the operator and got a new one in. Next.

False. The whole Connex operation was set up to fail and they chose not to contest a contract extension (they weren't fired as you claim. Once their contract was up that was it). Connex had started with very very neglected infrastructure and rollingstock. They actually started to get the network running again and were meeting OTP very easily. They had fantastic OTP during the com games. The thing that tipped Connex over was the cost of fuel and Melbourne shifting to public infrastructure upgrades and road upgrades. Constant delays due to the circle upgrades meant trains weren't meeting OTP. The new Siemens trains were withdrawn due to the breaking issues which resulted in services being cut/pushing the limits of meeting OTP. Motorway works impacted train running which also lead to OTP declining. Patronage was increasing steadily due to the cost of fuel going up. Upgrades needed to increase patronage only made OTP worse due to overcrowding slowing trains down. Shareholders weren't making profits so mtce was cut. The first signs of this were the trains and stations started looking old. Infrastructure got worse. Graffiti everywhere made it look worse. And it just went down from there. Metro came in as the circle upgrades and siemens trains were being completed. Public Transport became a very very public issue. Metro saw loop holes and hit them hard which dramatically boosted their OTP and shareholders got more money despite trains not adhering to timetables and becoming random express services. The state government used PT as an election tactic and lots was invested in it. The state government were unaware of the loopholes being exploited. Locals might have had a frequent service but there was no guarantee that their planned train was going to stop at their station. The government can't close any loopholes due to the contract time lines.

You also love to mention about booting and privatising QR but that doesn't achieve anything if Translink, TMR and BT via BCC honchos are still running the show. The fact still remains that trains need feeder buses along with providing a redundancy should there be issues with one area or mode of transport. How many times have roads been in total grid lock due to some rain, flooding or a prang but the trains still operated. Brisbanes 1 seat scenic tour bus journey always suffers as a result as multiple buses are all caught up in the city so the outer regions are hit hard with cancellations. Had the 2013 network came in there would have been lots of redundancies in place. Catch a bus to Chermside and jump on a feeder loop. Catch a bus to Aspley and jump on the same feeder loop. Catch a train to Boondal, Geebung or Carseldine stations and catch the same feeder loop. But no. Flood shaw road and Sandgate road, Gympie Road, Webster Road, Maundrel Terrace and Old Northern brings the entire northside to a halt. Have a prang on the gateway and Sandgate Road, Shaw Road, Gympie Road, Webster Road, Maundrel Terrace and Old Northern Road comes to a halt.

We also saw it the same flaw when a truck took down the power lines at Sunshine. Translink advised to catch the 326/327 instead of waiting for a rail replacement bus but that notification came out after those final services had departed Toombul making them useless. There was no back up redundancies. But on the translink planned network there were redundancies that would have got you to Chermside and allowed passengers to swap onto a Shorncliffe service to transfer to the Boondall-Chermside via Taigum Interchange/Carseldine station/Geebung Station/Aspley interchange loop route and Deagon to Bald Hills feeder route to connect to trains that were running Bald Hills-Caboolture/Nambour. Yes people would have had a longer commute and done more work but they would have got home sooner. Advising of delays and alternative routes to still get passengers home instead of waiting for the rail bus becomes all that bit easier.

Remember, you can't include QR staff in a public servant cuts programme it they're not public servants. I also think that a private operator would have taken a keen interest in what trains were being ordered for NGR and would have pushed back against the gov't if they found out the design was disability non-compliant, as it would be the operator who would be on the hook for fines if they ran them.

All QR staff are now public servants as they are no longer a GOC which is how 1500 people lost their jobs - which was mostly made up of back end staff such as IT, planners, designers etc (roles which would have been responsible for the L2P, MBRL and NGR contracts should QR been responsible for the contracts) along with outsourcing positions and various roles. The NGR contract had nothing to do with QR. QR has standards that the trains must meet from a operational perspective. There would also be limited information for them as QR are not responsible for maintaining the trains as that's a contracted out role. DDA is also a set standard. Hence there was very little need for QR to know very little about them. And this was all going on while staff at TMR were also losing part of its job force.

If you are going to blab make sure you have the right information as you sometimes skewer your posts to push your agenda.

[#Metro]

Hi HTG, long post, so I break it down for you here. 

Let Queensland Rail compete for the contracts. Same principle for the private bus operations too.

Accuracy of Information

If you are going to blab make sure you have the right information as you sometimes skewer your posts to push your agenda.

Well, you wrote this:

False. The whole Connex operation was set up to fail and they chose not to contest a contract extension (they weren't fired as you claim. Once their contract was up that was it).

but I read this:

Melbourne's train and tram operators dumped Updated 25 Jun 2009, 6:55am
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-06-25/melbournes-train-and-tram-operators-dumped/1332158

Disappointed

Connex spokesman John Rees says the company presented a strong bid.

"Obviously we're very disappointed with the decision, we thought we put in a pretty strong bid," he said.

"I suppose the focus has to be about getting the best deal for rail customers, and we'll work very closely with the winners, MTM, as they go through that transition process."

Daniel Bowen from the Public Transport Users Association has welcomed the decision to change train operators.

But he says the Government still needs to do more to improve the train network.

"It is good news if we have a company that is more passenger focused," he said.

So it is not true. Connex put in a bid and that was rejected. There it is.

Booting QR doesn't achieve anything - disagree

You also love to mention about booting and privatising QR but that doesn't achieve anything if Translink, TMR and BT via BCC honchos are still running the show. The fact still remains that trains need feeder buses along with providing a redundancy should there be issues with one area or mode of transport.

It does achieve something - it closes two root causes of this whole fiasco, which was:

(a) the intervention of then Premier Campbell Newman in selecting the QR CEO over the selection committee (companies choose their own CEO and management board members, not the Premier)

(b) it closes the second pathway which was the inclusion of QR staff as public servants in a public servant cuts program (if they aren't public servants they can't be included, company decides staffing levels and allocation subject to budget)

In addition, (c) it makes the operator accountable for performance because noncompliance can now trigger fines, bankruptcy and loss of contract. As it should.

(d) it also breaks the conflict of interest that the Minister for Transport has in being both the regulator (as the controller of TransLink) and the operator (as the controller of Queensland Rail) in the process.

It doesn't solve everything, but it doesn't have to. It just needs to be an improvement on now.

Role of Government as regulator, not operator:

We both agree  that we need PTQ. But PTQ will be toothless if it doesn't have the power to hire and fire.

You could get a single operator that runs both buses and trains. SMRT Singapore does this, indeed many others such as RATP are multi-modal too. It might encourage closer integration between both systems. To be fair though, I will point out that this is also possible if the Queensland Government takes over Brisbane Transport, or BCC is open to bus reform. But both options exist.

Give the government regulator strong powers that it needs to regulate. Transport Minister Jackie Trad is both the operator and regulator simultaneously, that is a conflict of interest because it has led to a situation where contracts are just being renewed on a purely historical basis irrespective of the merit of other operators and what the historical performance of the current operator has been.

[#Metro]

Queensland Rail: Union official back in driver's seat

A RAIL union official who stepped back into a coveted train driver job at Queensland Rail after a decade-long break has denied favouritism accusations, arguing he never technically left.

Rail Tram and Bus Union organiser Shayne Kummerfeld took unpaid leave from QR for a paid union job back in 2006, but says he is now returning to train driving so he can "relax a bit".

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-rail-union-official-back-in-drivers-seat/news-story/4f64312ee691df37ca678dc8eb0ff9f9

Unpaid leave for 10 years? I have never heard of such an arrangement at any private sector organisation anywhere, ever.

A question - did he sit and pass the psychometric testing like everyone else??

QR chief executive officer Nick Easy said Mr Kummerfeld was required to undergo re-training due to the length of absence but existing QR drivers did not need to do retrospective psychometric testing.

[verbatim9]

^^It's a mess alright!

[#Metro]

https://translink.com.au/service-updates/136076

Track Work: Delays 12 mins, CBD

All train lines are delayed up to 12 minutes both directions between Roma  Street and Bowen Hills stations due to scheduled track maintenance.

Affected services

Trains

    Airport Line
    Beenleigh Line
    Caboolture Line
    Cleveland Line
    Doomben Line
    Ferny Grove Line
    Gold Coast Line
    Ipswich/Rosewood Line
    Redcliffe Peninsula Line
    Shorncliffe Line
    Springfield Line
    Sunshine Coast Line

===================

  no regard for the inevitable flow on to broken connections .. 

And Queensland Rail wonders why people are getting really p%ssed  off with them ..   

"Time to say goodbye..."

[#Metro]

From another thread...

Due to an operational issue selected Rosewood line trains will be altered this evening.

The following outbound services will be replaced by rail buses:

    The 4.35pm Ipswich to Rosewood train.
    The 5.35pm Ipswich to Rosewood train.
    The 6.35pm Ipswich to Rosewood train.
    The 10.35pm Ipswich to Rosewood train.

The following inbound services will be replaced by rail buses:

    The 5.05pm Rosewood to Ipswich train.
    The 6.05pm Rosewood to Ipswich train.
    The 7.05pm Rosewood to Ipswich train.
    The 11.05pm Rosewood to Ipswich train.

Simply describing the cancellation of rail services with the non descriptor ' operational issue ' as the cause is really treating passengers with contempt in our opinion.

What was the real cause of this sudden unexpected cancellation of rail service on the Rosewood line?  Passengers deserve to know.

We can speculate, for example, sick train crew?  Failed train?  Staff roster messed up?  No crew willing to do overtime?

Queensland Rail and Government have been touting ' improved reliability '.  Not really, on time running is worse.  Why isn't non-peak OTR reported as the same way as peak?  Something to hide?

There was a major track closure this past weekend, crew demands were lighter than normal.  It is really disturbing that our rail services are cancelled with no or little notice and the excuse ' operational issue ' used to cover up the real reason. What was the real reason Deputy Premier?

I made repeated requests on twitter to the Deputy Premier, TransLink and Queensland Rail as to the real reason for these cancellations.  I was just ignored as usual.  These sort of issues really do reinforce why we need a Public Transport Ombudsman in Queensland.  The Government, TransLink and Queensland Rail are self absorbed and could not care a fig leaf about the travelling public it seems.

Money talks.

Without executive powers to fine or fire, anything the Ombudsman (or CRU for that matter) writes will be received by the operator and promptly put in the recycling paper waste bin.

A private operator would be fined to pieces and a black mark on their record if they did something like this without good reason.

[#Metro]

Why train services are worse when Queensland Rail claims they are better
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/the-hermit/why-train-services-are-worse-when-queensland-rail-claims-they-are-better-20170725-gxiooq.html

People like to trot out the Melbourne scare story that "oh private operator Metro will cancel services and run them express past stations"

Yet Queensland Rail erases hundreds of services from the timetable routinely. Not a peep.

Most recent case is Rosewood line, where services were pulled this week with no explanation.

That is why QR refuse to talk about the number of services that actually run. They prefer to talk instead about the percentage of services that are cancelled, or not cancelled.

The problem with this is that if a service runs one week, but is not run the next week because they don't have the staff, then it isn't cancelled as far as they are concerned. It is an absurd state of affairs that can only undermine passenger confidence and satisfaction even further.

As an example, consider the total number of train services from the end of March to the beginning of May. In the last week of March there were 7,813 services scheduled, but 690.6 of these services were cancelled. The number of actual train services for the week, therefore, was 7,122.4. The following week was the first full week of the school holidays. QR took over 670 trains off the tracks and scheduled 7,141 trains, but of these 125.7 were cancelled. The net number running that week was 7,015.3.

The next week was Easter, so the number of trains scheduled was reduced to 6,203 of which 45 were cancelled.

With school holidays and Easter over, you would expect the number of scheduled services to return to the previous levels. Instead, QR only scheduled 6,951 trains, and cancelled 21 of these, so that the actual number of trains run that week was 6,930. That was almost 200 fewer than before.

Time to put of a call for expressions of interest for running trains in SEQ. 

[#Metro]

The Whole Of Business Review for Queensland Rail by Deutsche Bahn is now available from the CityTrain Response Unit website.

Main Page https://www.cru.qld.gov.au/reports.html

Link to Report https://www.cru.qld.gov.au/resources/20170720%20QR%20Whole%20of%20Business%20Review%20-%20DB%20EC%20final%20presentation.pdf

[ozbob]

^ thanks ..

[#Metro]

Metro Trains fined $1.2m over computer malfunction that shut down network
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-01/metro-trains-fined-after-computer-glitch-caused-chaos/8862204

"I think what this illustrates is that the current contract we have with Metro Trains does have teeth and does come into effect when we see these very rare, but very serious, failures in performance," he said.

"We are currently exploring future contractual options and any future contract will have even more stringent performance requirements and penalty clauses."

More accountability - both to KPIs and financial accountability when things go wrong.

In contrast, QR being a public operator must have its contract renewed.

If the KPIs are not met ... renewal anyway!

Customers angry... renewal anyway!

Bad communication to the public (or the minister)... renewal anyway!

When gov't fines a public operator - it is just gov't fining itself. Pointless.

[#Metro]

"but station skipping"

"but maintenance"


If publicly-owned Queensland Rail doesn't deliver, not only is their contract GUARANTEED renewal but the fines and penalties they

face is $0.00. They might even be paid a bonus.


People like to talk about private train operator and "contract loopholes". Yet, the contract between QR and the QLD Gov

is unenforceable in its entirety. Renewal is the only option there.



Good to see "poor communication" will attract penalties as well. Something we need here in QLD.

----

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/putting-people-first-a-better-deal-for-passengers/

Putting People First: A Better Deal For Passengers

Minister for Public Transport 12 September 2017

The Andrews Labor Government is putting passengers first with new contracts to operate Melbourne's trains and trams that will mandate higher performance targets and enforce tougher penalties if these targets are not met.

Minister for Public Transport Jacinta Allan today announced Metro Trains Melbourne (MTM) and Keolis Downer (KDR) will operate Melbourne's train and tram networks for the next seven years.

The new train and tram contracts also deliver 700 new jobs including 375 apprenticeships and include a minimum 85 per cent local content.

Passengers have said they want to see improved performance and these new contracts will crackdown on operational practices such as city-loop and station skipping, short running of trams, graffiti, poor communication and information and dirty trains and trams.

A massive 37 per cent increase in maintenance and renewal investment will improve network infrastructure to reduce the number of faults on the system including signalling failures, overhead wires and points failures which lead to train delays and cancellations.

For the first time, MTM will face a $10 million penalty if they do not achieve new higher maintenance standards in the first two and half years of the contracts.

The new contract will also ensure that MTM will be penalised up to $700,000 to compensate passengers if a network failure results in more than 50 per cent of services cancelled or delayed by 30 minutes or more within a two hour period.

Passengers will no longer have to deal with overbearing and in your face advertising at stations and on trams and trains.

Passengers will benefit from more timely and accurate information through face-to-face, onboard and digital channels with station staff provided with up-to-date information and the tools needed to give passengers the information they need.

The Labor Government is investing more than $20 billion in our public transport network to ensure passengers who use trains and trams get to their destinations.

The new franchise term commences on 30 November 2017.

Quotes attributable to Minister for Public Transport Jacinta Allan

"Passengers have said that they want cleaner trains and stations, more reliable services, more timely and accurate information, less graffiti and scratching and that's what these contracts will do."

"We've listened to passengers, staff and unions so that these new contracts hold MTM and KDR to account in delivering increased maintenance, better services and real time information."

"We're fixing services now as well as making the biggest investment in public transport infrastructure in Victoria's history by building the Metro Tunnel, removing 50 dangerous and congested level crossings and upgrading high capacity signalling."

[#Metro]

Queensland Rail skipping stations. Just like METRO Melbourne before the contract rewrite. Well, well, well... 

Train services change to express to protect Queensland Rail's on-time running record

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/train-services-change-to-express-to-protect-queensland-rails-ontime-running-record/news-story/9bb80e59cba7b47c092f79f7fe9073e0

COMMUTERS are being left stranded on train station platforms under a Queensland Rail system that fudges figures about the on-time running performance of its trains.

Trains that are at risk of running late are being ordered to suddenly switch to express services so that QR can protect its punctuality record.

In just one month, 65 train services skipped stops, but are still able to be classified as "on-time".

Want a bonus payment with that??

Executive bonuses were tied to meeting on-time running targets in the past, but QR refused to confirm that they still were and a spokeswoman said no performance payments were paid to executives for the 2016/17 financial year.

[Gazza]

People like to talk about private train operator and "contract loopholes". Yet, the contract between QR and the QLD Gov

is unenforceable in its entirety. Renewal is the only option there.

You can though...Chance the performance metrics, publish them, and we can have our say at the ballot box.

[#Metro]

You can though...Chance the performance metrics, publish them, and we can have our say at the ballot box.

What, and elect Tim Nicholls who helped cause the mess and wants to cancel CRR?

What a statement!!   

[Gazza]

No I mean going forward.

Or do you think the goverment of the day is entirely blameless in the general performance of public transport.

What a statement 

[#Metro]

In Victoria, people vote in State elections AND the State Government can fire the operator.

Twice the accountability.

Incredible!

(Coming to think of it, even in Brisbane, people can vote for Brisbane City Councillors AND the council can fire the CityCat operator if they have cause. WOW)