EMU/SMUs and new IMUs on Nambour/Gympie North peak services.

[Arnz]

This is something that has been happening more often and urks me ever since all 16 IMU160 class trains were put into service. SMU/EMUs ARE STILL running up to Nambour in peak, yet you see a IMU running to Redbank, Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and even Corinda via Tennyson.

Personally I dont mind getting a SMU (most of the time they've been the HS-SMUs) up to Nambour as they're a bit more comfortable than the EMUs, but they still don't have toilets for a service that travels a lot longer that others.  Robina only takes just only over an hour, and the majority of their services have toilets provided.

I understand that some of the EMU/SMU allocated Nambour runs have rest breaks at Caboolture, but even then if a service runs late, theres no pit stop.

I've understand that some morning peak, and late evening services have since replaced EMUs with IMUs on those Nambour services, but I've noticed a lot more IMUs more being used for short Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and on occasion even Shorncliffe-Corinda in off-peak.

Why is this happening? I know the Caboolture and Nambour crews are trained for the new and old IMU sets, are there allocation issues preventing more IMUs from operating up to Nambour?

[yobborobbo21]

QR must hate us as 99% of the time i get a filthy EMU both ways and most of that time its only 3cars! Sunday was the first time in ages I got a new IMU (there was 3 3car new imus in the yard at nambour)

[ozbob]

It would make some sense to run the IMUs on true interurban runs.  That is Nambour (Gympie North) to Robina.

Run the airtrain as a loop, point to point.  BNE Domestic to Roma St, Exhibition, Eagle Junction BNE Domestic.  An early IMU could be used for that.  Also provides a service on the Exhibition loop.

[brad C]

This is something that has been happening more often and urks me ever since all 16 IMU160 class trains were put into service. SMU/EMUs ARE STILL running up to Nambour in peak, yet you see a IMU running to Redbank, Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and even Corinda via Tennyson.

Nambour has never seen much in the way of new rollingstock, apart from the '80' series (81-88) EMUs which were the last made and had a more powerful radio and more recently ICE sets from the displaced Spirit of Capricorn runs.
Sadly even these ICE sets are now forming their own 'elephants graveyard' at Mayne.
There was even a time in the 90s when the SMU mark1 sets were not permitted to operate beyond Caboolture (something about reversing and lighting??)

My observation of the use of IMU sets particularly of a PM on suburban services appears to come about from an imbalance of demand between the AM and PM peaks.
You will note that short IMU runs of an afternoon either return as a Roma Street or Bowen Hills service or as empty cars.
These then form Gold Coast services later in the evening from the yard upon cessation of Airport links.
One point to note is the attractiveness of Gold Coast to Airport direct links (a product of door to train providers on the GC) and a contributor to increased revenue for Air Train.
I fear that if Airport services were not operated as through runs, then revenue would be affected particularly with cumbersome transfers of luggage at inner city stations.

[Arnz]

This is something that has been happening more often and urks me ever since all 16 IMU160 class trains were put into service. SMU/EMUs ARE STILL running up to Nambour in peak, yet you see a IMU running to Redbank, Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and even Corinda via Tennyson.

Nambour has never seen much in the way of new rollingstock, apart from the '80' series (81-88) EMUs which were the last made and had a more powerful radio and more recently ICE sets from the displaced Spirit of Capricorn runs.
Sadly even these ICE sets are now forming their own 'elephants graveyard' at Mayne.
There was even a time in the 90s when the SMU mark1 sets were not permitted to operate beyond Caboolture (something about reversing and lighting??)

My observation of the use of IMU sets particularly of a PM on suburban services appears to come about from an imbalance of demand between the AM and PM peaks.
You will note that short IMU runs of an afternoon either return as a Roma Street or Bowen Hills service or as empty cars.
These then form Gold Coast services later in the evening from the yard upon cessation of Airport links.
One point to note is the attractiveness of Gold Coast to Airport direct links (a product of door to train providers on the GC) and a contributor to increased revenue for Air Train.
I fear that if Airport services were not operated as through runs, then revenue would be affected particularly with cumbersome transfers of luggage at inner city stations.

IIRC, there was a period there was a restriction on the number of SMUs (both MK1 and MK2 units) on Ipswich-Caboolture corridor was restricted due to power supply issues beyond Corinda (which has since been fixed).

And as for the allocation of IMUs in afternoon peaks, having a look at the both the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast timetables. I've spotted out two afternoon services that can easily be replaced by IMUs. 

Instead of the IMUs doing short runs in afternoon peaks, they operate to Nambour and continue through to form the late evening Gold Coast/Robina services (instead of originating from Bowen Hills).

#1L07 (renumbered #TL07) - 4:03pm ex Central, arrives Nambour at 5:50pm
#TG78 (replacing #1990) - leaves Nambour around 7pm, arrives Central 9:20pm, continues to Robina at 9:25pm.

And another run that can be replaced by IMUs, also to note a current Friday-only run (which is the ICE being repositioned in BNE), becomes a Mon-Fri run under this proposal.

#1L09 (renumbered #TL09) - 4:34pm ex Central, arrives Nambour at 6:27pm.
#TG82 (replaces #UG82 and #X992) - 8:25pm ex Nambour, arrives Central around 10:18pm, continues to Robina at 10:25pm.

I propose the renumbered #TG82 replaces the current Friday only #X992 ICE repositioning run, so it becomes a Mon-Fri run for the late night Nambour-Brisbane commuters.  The current Friday ICE repositioning run, could either see the ICE parked in Nambour for the weekend, or RUN back to Brisbane empty.

[brad C]

Arnz
Perhaps your suggestions could be presented at the next 'Meet the Managers' forum (sic)
For your suggestions to be instigated, there would need to be a change to the stabling habits of sets at Nambour overnight.
For example, 1L07 is stabled overnight at Nambour and either forms an early AM service to Ipswich or returns as empty cars to Petrie next morning to form an all stations service at around 7.22. (it is insulting for Caboolture commuters to see this train trundle through of a morning empty when previuos and following services are full to the brim.
1L09 forms 1990 of an evening.
There are usually later runs of IMU or SMU to Nambour of an evening returning as T, U or 1 prefixed services in the early morning.
The ICE set typically used on XL13 of an evening returns next morning arriving at Caboolture circa 7.28.

Perhaps better use of IMUs will be provided once duplication and the arrival of a further batch of IMUs are delivered (which will be constructed following the present run of SMUs.)
We can but wait!!

Brad C

[ozbob]

I will alert QR to your suggestions Arnz.

Good stuff.

Regards
Bob

[stephenk]

It would make some sense to run the IMUs on true interurban runs.  That is Nambour (Gympie North) to Robina.

Run the airtrain as a loop, point to point.  BNE Domestic to Roma St, Exhibition, Eagle Junction BNE Domestic.  An early IMU could be used for that.  Also provides a service on the Exhibition loop.

I think the IMUs are being run on all lines to allow users of all lines to have the impression that their line has new trains. However it would make more sense to run them on the routes where they are needed i.e long runs.

Bob, again your loop idea would be an operational nightmare. To access the loop the train would have to cross the path of 3 other tracks to got onto the loop, and cross the path of 3 other tracks to back to the Airport. Unlike Sydney and Melbourne's loops it is not possible for trains to run through the Exhibition loop without conflicting movements with other tracks, unless of course flyovers were built at either end.

[ozbob]

I was being a little cryptic Stephen ..

It won't happen with the airport line for many reasons ...

Cheers
Bob

[QRIG]

I guess at this stage its just a waiting game to see the balance shifted again once the order of SMU 260s is finally fulfilled. SMU261+262 seem to be on a tour around the whole network as they've been spotted on nearly all lines since the Ekka debut. Along with the IMU160 fleet getting around on all-stopper suburban services (saying that, they are identical to the SMU260s with the exception of the toilet)

I believe the power issues west of Corinda still continue, hence the substation upgrades at Roma Street and apparently Wulkuraka will be getting the next substation. Although I am curious about the large cement slab at Corinda which could be for either the signalling upgrade or part of the substation effort. Most likely the former. Still, its getting old being cramped on a 60 series EMU.

[Arnz]

On a side note IMU 164 + 168, full with "Gympie North" on the destos, operated the renumbered #T409 Gympie North service this evening (in lieu of the ICE).  I'm sure the same sets will do the return service #T956 this morning (as I type this).

[yobborobbo21]

A 6car new IMU has just departed Nambour for Gympie North on #T409

[stephenk]

A work colleague of mine regularly catches the 4:39pm from Bowen Hills to Landsborough (4:30 ex-Roma St to Nambour). She reports that this train very rarely has a toilet, and is usually an toilet-less EMU/SMU. It is a bit disgraceful that QR expect passengers to hold their bladders for up to a 1hr48min journey, yet IMUs are often seen passing through Bowen Hills around that time on suburban journeys that don't require toilets!

[yobborobbo21]

Looked like a 6 car ICE on tonights Gympielander, see how long before it goes out of service again!

[Sunbus610]

With all the new rollingstock (IMU's and SMU's) being delivered to QR's Citytrain division, we're back to seeing the 2 lead car ICE and 3 car EMU's on the week day PM Gympie North service from Roma Street this afternoon . From the words of Darryn Hinch.........shame, shame, shame QR.

[O_128]

i always laugh when i see a ICe with EMU come into central and he majority move to ICE units.The goldcoast resisdents get particluarly grumpy though when there service is a emu or gasp and early SMU

[ozbob]

Media Release 9 November 2008

SEQ:  Please stop for us or we will do it on the train!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport is concerned that North Coast rail commuters are being serviced by suburban trains without toilets.  Some of these runs are potentially three hours and it is a long time to sit with one?s legs crossed.  Commuters are becoming a little perplexed as they note Interurban Multiple Unit (IMU) trains (toilet equipped) running short haul suburban runs whilst on many of long haul runs north, for example Nambour and beyond they have to sit it in Electric Multiple Unit (EMU ) trains which don?t have toilets.  It is even more confounding as passengers note IMU trains sitting in the marshalling yards as they pass on by in the EMU trains.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track has received consistent feedback from north coast commuters concerned about the failure to provide toilet equipped trains on the interurban runs north.  This is further problematical as many stations don?t have toilets open for use either!"

"We believe it is not an unreasonable request from the north coast commuters for toilet equipped trains. Particularly as we note IMU trains frequently running short haul suburban services around the Brisbane Citytrain network.?

?Can QR Citytrain consider providing IMU trains for the north coast interurban runs please?  We appreciate the lack of funding for QR passenger services has lead to the need for some non toilet trains to do the long haul runs, but now that the new trains are available surely something can be done??

?Goodness, what would the Gold Coast commuters do if they had regular EMU trains?  It does seem that some interurban lines are more interurban than others??

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[O_128]

I have never seen the need for why gold coast commuters need toilets it is only an hor to robina.IT actually takes longer to go on an all stopper beenleigh service and it is 56 minutes to cleveland.

One day after going to the gold coast i caught the train home and it was an  SMU. the amount of complaining it heard was ridiculus especially from residents who boarded at beenleigh.Also every moring on the way to the city i see at least 2 IMUs heading outbound on the cleveland line.

Maybe the goldcoast line could be upgraded to 3tph with 1tph heading to nambour instead of the airport?
Of course though translink wouldnt want ot dissapoint the tourist which is the main reason for the new trains always ont he goldcoast/airport corridor.

It would have made much more sense to equip all new trains with toilets and bag racks.ANd possibly put 3 sets of door and longitudal seating on the SMUs to ease loading times.

[stephenk]

I have never seen the need for why gold coast commuters need toilets it is only an hor to robina.IT actually takes longer to go on an all stopper beenleigh service and it is 56 minutes to cleveland.

Please try and get your facts right before posting.
Times to Central (weekday off-peak):-
Robina - 1hr 15mins
Cleveland - 1hr 4mins
Beenleigh - 1hr 2mins
Nambour - 1hr 44mins - 1hr 46mins

Maybe the goldcoast line could be upgraded to 3tph with 1tph heading to nambour instead of the airport?

That would cause:-
1) An uneven and possibly problematic timetable
2) A 3 hour journey - with resulting high chance of delays

It would have made much more sense to equip all new trains with toilets and bag racks.ANd possibly put 3 sets of door and longitudal seating on the SMUs to ease loading times.

Inner suburban lines need more seating and standing space for peak hour loading, not toilets!
However, I would agree that 3 sets of doors and longitudinal seating would make sense on new SMUs. Sadly the new SMUs have less standing space than the original SMUs. Doh!

[tgv]

This is something that has been happening more often and urks me ever since all 16 IMU160 class trains were put into service. SMU/EMUs ARE STILL running up to Nambour in peak, yet you see a IMU running to Redbank, Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and even Corinda via Tennyson.

Most of these runs are part of the Airport - Robina roster for these units.  They start or finish on other destinations.

[Arnz]

This is something that has been happening more often and urks me ever since all 16 IMU160 class trains were put into service. SMU/EMUs ARE STILL running up to Nambour in peak, yet you see a IMU running to Redbank, Shorncliffe, Ferny Grove and even Corinda via Tennyson.

Most of these runs are part of the Airport - Robina roster for these units.  They start or finish on other destinations.

No, this doesnt seem to be case lately. 

Most of them start from the depot, then runs empty to start their service at Bowen Hills and/or Roma Street.  IMUs on the Doomben<>Cleveland corridor is a common sight in both morning and afternoon peak. Only very few services to suburban destinations actually originate from the Airport.

[ozbob]

Interesting twist this afternoon at Central.  The 4.05pm Ipswich service was this afternoon an IMU set!  IMU 121 / 108

Arrived about two minutes late.  The 4.09 Redbank service which is normally IMU was EMU 70 / 09.  On time.

I wonder if they were swapped around?

Interesting .....

[ozbob]

From  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1528.msg7206#msg7206  posted by Davemail66

17 November 2008 - Putting just a three car set (EMU82) on the 5:40pm (weekly peak hour) Gympie North service from Roma Street station is certainly a bit rough for Sunshine Coast/Cooloola Coast train commuters'. I mean......fair suck of the sav Evil I would really like to see Mr Mickel / Mr Abbott / Mr Hockridge travel that far on a train with 'absolutely' no toilet facilities. You never ever hear of suburban rollingstock being use on interurban rail services (Sydney - Newcastle / Sydney - Wollongong / Sydney - Blue Mountains) in New South Wales.

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Packed like sardines

Packed like sardines

Published 11:44a.m. 18th November 2008

By Kerryn Manifold

Updated 3:16p.m. 18th November 2008
Packed like sardines

Trains on the north coast line as as crowded as those in Brisbane.

The state opposition has compared travelling by train to Brisbane from the Sunshine Coast to travelling one of the capital?s most crowded commuter lines.

Opposition transport spokeswoman and Maroochydore MP Fiona Simpson and leader Lawrence Springborg travelled on the Ipswich line from Darra to Central Station this morning.

Ms Simpson said the journey was overcrowded and the number of trains that were above capacity on the Ipswich line was just a few more than overcrowded trains on the north coast line.

?It?s exactly the same problem,? Ms Simpson said.

?Things are as bad on the Ipswich line as they are on the north coast line.?

Ms Simpson said 21% of trains on the Ipswich line were overcrowded which was close to 20% of trains that were overcrowded on the north coast line.

She also questioned why some city trains had toilets on board but trains on the north coast line, where journeys often last two hours, had no toilets.

?It?s just crazy stuff,? she said.

?The government solution is still about 10 years away.?

Premier Anna Bligh announced a new service which would run from Caboolture to Brisbane in October.

Ms Bligh said the service would take demand away from peak services.

[O_128]

No all stopper service will take congestion off the north coast line when they are express.The only solution is to make them run express caboolture to bowen hills! Im sure gold caost residents would hate having to stop at coopers plains and loganlea in peak hour not to mention no toilets.

[stephenk]

No all stopper service will take congestion off the north coast line when they are express.The only solution is to make them run express caboolture to bowen hills! Im sure gold caost residents would hate having to stop at coopers plains and loganlea in peak hour not to mention no toilets.

Some North Coast Trains are already "super" express services. The problem with running more expresses is that they eat up line capacity, and reduce the number of services available to other users. Thus if for example a Nambour train that runs express from Petrie to Bowen Hills was "improved" to running express from Caboolture to Bowen Hills, then not only have you taken away 1 service from stations Caboolture to Petrie, you would also require the removal of another all stations train from Caboolture to Brisbane to allow the Nambour train to run express. Thus you have now taken away 2 services from Caboolture to Petrie, and 1 from Petrie to Brisbane. So to make a Nambour to Brisbane train a bit faster, you have significantly increased congestion for people who travel from stations between Caboolture and Brisbane.

The only way around this is to either build more tracks, (or for people to move closer to their place of work)!

[O_128]

well no mean to be rude but if you live at nambour why are you travelling to brisbane to work everyday.Seriously move closer to your work and traffic will be a thing of the past.Also maybe just stop them at petrie and northgate but dont open the doors.

[Arnz]

Some North Coast Trains are already "super" express services. The problem with running more expresses is that they eat up line capacity, and reduce the number of services available to other users. Thus if for example a Nambour train that runs express from Petrie to Bowen Hills was "improved" to running express from Caboolture to Bowen Hills, then not only have you taken away 1 service from stations Caboolture to Petrie, you would also require the removal of another all stations train from Caboolture to Brisbane to allow the Nambour train to run express. Thus you have now taken away 2 services from Caboolture to Petrie, and 1 from Petrie to Brisbane. So to make a Nambour to Brisbane train a bit faster, you have significantly increased congestion for people who travel from stations between Caboolture and Brisbane.

Except there are really only two standard patterns that Nambour trains run.  Three if you include the peak patterns. or Four if you count the ICE off-peak shuttle.

1. Express Caboolture to Bowen Hills stopping Northgate and Petrie and Vice-versa (standard off-peak pattern/weekend pattern)
2. Express Caboolture to Bowen Hills and Vice-versa (Standard peak hour pattern for mostly IMU/ICE operated services)
3. Express Bowen Hills to Petrie (4:32pm outbound peak service - mostly suburban units).

And as for taking away services from Northgate and/or Petrie, there are heaps of Caboolture trains to catch for that matter.  The 4:32pm Brisbane to Nambour and 5:00am Nambour to Brisbane service may not be as crowded as the other Nambour/Gympie peak services, but there are heaps of Caboolture all-station peak services which are not overcrowded either.

But one train that would benefit from switching to the Pattern no 2, is the 4:00pm service which stops at Northgate and Petrie, which started as a 3-car unit = overcrowded = upgraded to 6-car unit, and is now overcrowded again as yet suburban passengers take the seats whilst the longer distance people stand to Petrie and/or Caboolture.  Also I've used to catch the 4pm service regularly before a change of hours. Beyond Caboolture, heading towards Nambour on that service there are barely any standees, yet all the seats are still taken, so at least patronage is increasing. 

Also to add in (note: late night edit additon) The 6:12pm service ex Roma Street to Nambour, which is scheduled as a 4-car ICE I've been told suffers the same fate as the 4:00pm service.  I've only caught it a few times, but same story with standees to Petrie and Caboolture (30-45mins) whilst suburban pax get the seats.  Loading beyond Caboolture towards Nambour, the same story as the 4pm service (little to no standees, yet all seats taken).

I havent caught the 5am or 5:30am services, but do know some people that catch the 5:30am service which is usually all-seats taken (with few to no standees) by Caboolture, but cram conditions start after Caboolture when the Caboolture pax gets on. 

IMO, the 5:30am Nambour to Brisbane train would better off be upgraded to a 6-car unit, but since that service is generally as a 3-car  IMU (#U906, as i've been told) either, another 3-car IMU would have to be available (The ideal solution is to pull another 3-car IMU off a suburban run and transfer it to one of the Nambour services), or the "less ideal" solution is that the 5am service would need to be "downgraded" to a 3-car EMU, whilst the 5:30am service gets upgraded from a 3-car IMU to a 6-car IMU (by moving the 3-car IMU from the 5am service to make the 5:30 service a 6-car IMU).