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Author Topic: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail  (Read 2409 times)

Offline #Metro

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Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« on: August 28, 2016, 08:54:02 PM »
<foam>

A quick modelling of Regional Rapid Rail to Toowoomba.

Assume QR timetabled times for stations between the CBD and Indooroopilly/Darra.

Assume similar speed between Darra and Ipswich as for the CBD-Indooroopilly section.

Assume no problem with freight. Assume 0.5 min dwells at stations from Walloon to Toowoomba Base (other stations have this timetabled in already).

Most of the track from Ipswich to Toowoomba is fairly straight. Assume no need for electrification (i.e. V/Locity train), and some minor straightening works (i.e. tunnel required under hill between Grandchester and Laidley).

Assume from Wulkuraka to Toowoomba, run the train at 160 km/hr. Run the train to the base of the mountain range and assume further that local buses are reorganised to zip through the city and then flow down the range to connect people to the train station before terminating.

We stop the train at Toowoomba Base and use buses to avoid the costs of tunneling into the mountain range and elevating the train inside it.

Results

0 min Roma Street
6 min Indooroopilly   
16 min Darra
20 min Wacol
25 min Goodna   
42 min Ipswich
48 min Wulkuraka   
52 min Walloon
56 min Rosewood   
63 min Grandchester   
67 min Laidley
71 min Forest Hill   
76 min Gatton
83 min Helidon
89 min Withcott
91 min Toowoomba Base

(Bus connection + ca 12 minutes)   103 minutes total

Google Maps currently puts the travel time to Toowoomba (Roma Street to Station St Toowoomba CBD) as 1 hour 35 minutes for 125 km distance (95 minutes total).

It may be more worthwhile to have a bus service on the TL network that makes limited stops and uses the new Legacy Way tunnel, given that the speeds are almost the same, and the population lower. The key issues are those inner areas where train speeds are much lower.

</foam>
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 09:05:09 PM »
<foam>

A quick modelling of Regional Rapid Rail to Toowoomba.

Assume QR timetabled times for stations between the CBD and Indooroopilly/Darra.

Assume similar speed between Darra and Ipswich as for the CBD-Indooroopilly section.

Assume no problem with freight. Assume 0.5 min dwells at stations from Walloon to Toowoomba Base (other stations have this timetabled in already).

Most of the track from Ipswich to Toowoomba is fairly straight. Assume no need for electrification (i.e. V/Locity train), and some minor straightening works (i.e. tunnel required under hill between Grandchester and Laidley).

Assume from Wulkuraka to Toowoomba, run the train at 160 km/hr. Run the train to the base of the mountain range and assume further that local buses are reorganised to zip through the city and then flow down the range to connect people to the train station before terminating.

We stop the train at Toowoomba Base and use buses to avoid the costs of tunneling into the mountain range and elevating the train inside it.

Results

0 min Roma Street
6 min Indooroopilly
16 min Darra
20 min Wacol
25 min Goodna
42 min Ipswich
48 min Wulkuraka
52 min Walloon
56 min Rosewood
63 min Grandchester
67 min Laidley
71 min Forest Hill
76 min Gatton
83 min Helidon
89 min Withcott
91 min Toowoomba Base

(Bus connection + ca 12 minutes)103 minutes total

Google Maps currently puts the travel time to Toowoomba (Roma Street to Station St Toowoomba CBD) as 1 hour 35 minutes for 125 km distance (95 minutes total).

It may be more worthwhile to have a bus service on the TL network that makes limited stops and uses the new Legacy Way tunnel, given that the speeds are almost the same, and the population lower. The key issues are those inner areas where train speeds are much lower.

</foam>
I hope it's electrified therefore can use existing rail stock, quieter less polluting. (Build it then they will come)

Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 09:30:41 PM »
Quote
I hope it's electrified therefore can use existing rail stock, quieter less polluting. (Build it then they will come)

Pollution is to do with fuel source. Electric trains are also polluting because they release carbon dioxide at the (Swanbank) power station, which are run on coal. Trains that emit emissions at the vehicle can be offset (cheaply) by buying carbon credits.

Electrification is more $$, which would reduce the BCR as it does not increase the speed/reduce journey time. The idea is to use something like what V/Line has in Victoria with the V/Locity sets.

The good news is that most of the track is already there and has excellent alignment and long spaces between stations. Some existing Rosewood line stations would have to be skipped for speed purposes, but that could be fixed with buses.

The bad news is that the bus can do the trip in 95 minutes. Greyhound already achieves this with its GX155 6pm service Ex Toowoomba.

The timetable is very inconsistent but new bus timetabling or bringing the Brisbane - CBD section within TL network would achieve similar results as to running trains, minus the infrastructure spend.

http://www.greyhound.com.au/Clients/GREYHOUNDNEW/Documents/Timetables/Toowoomba-Brisbane.pdf
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 09:33:23 PM »
Electric Catenary can prevent derailments. Power is going to be resourced from more renewable resources too in the future. It's also about taking pressure off the Warrego Hwy eliminating the need for widening and extra maintenance on the Hwy by moving freight to rail as well as passengers.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 10:32:30 PM »
Quote
Electric Catenary can prevent derailments. Power is going to be resourced from more renewable resources too in the future. It's also about taking pressure off the Warrego Hwy eliminating the need for widening and extra maintenance on the Hwy by moving freight to rail as well as passengers.

Thanks for your comments.

How does electric catenary prevent derailments? Is it worth the additional cost to put it in to Toowoomba? Melbourne seems to work fine using diesel fast trains, and diesel tilts are also used in QLD.

Freight will be a problem with this line as it is a passenger hi-speed line. The presence of slow moving freight trains and hi-speed trains on the same line dramatically reduces capacity.

It would not eliminate maintenance on the highway because after construction one would need to pay for both highway maintenance and railway maintenance.

The service can be carbon neutral regardless of energy source. Emissions are therefore not a reason to favour one mode of propulsion over another.

The largest benefits of a transport project are almost always travel time savings. Provided the timetable were structured properly, a bus service would achieve faster times than a train and not require waiting for an interchange at the base of the Toowoomba mountain range. 
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 10:44:22 PM »
Electric Trains with Catenary are less prone to derail at higher speed due to connection with the Catenary stablizing the train. That's why High speed rail is not built with 3 rail etc... or hauled by multiple DMU units. Electrification via Catenary is far more efficient and can operate in frosty and snowy conditions unlike 3rd rail at times.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 10:44:57 PM »
Yes but most road maintenance is not due to cars, it's due to heavy vehicles like buses, B-doubles, and other heavy vehicles. So there would be some level of baseline maintenance that wouldn't change, but you'd likely make it a longer time frame before you had to resurface the road for example.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 10:48:51 PM »
Quote
Electric Trains with Catenary are less prone to derail at higher speed due to connection with the Catenary stablizing the train.

How do you explain the fact that Victoria uses V/Locity trains that run on diesel and achieve speeds of 160 km/hr? If it works there, why not in QLD also?

Quote
Yes but most road maintenance is not due to cars, it's due to heavy vehicles like buses, B-doubles, and other heavy vehicles.

Are you proposing that freight be run on this RRR line? Because most of these heavy vehicles move freight not people. To have those shift to rail would mean that freight gets put on the line.
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 10:57:15 PM »
Track is wider down there and it's only on small sections of track it would reach that speed. (That is top speed of the train anyway) And if the track were to be improved to Toowoomba it could be paid for partly via inland rail funds. Electrification costs are coming down each year. Vic is also behind the eightball when it comes to regional electrification. Why promote dirty, noisy DMU or Diesel hauled freight when it can be electric in populated areas?

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 11:07:46 PM »
I'm not suggesting anything here, but verbatim was commenting about modal shift for freight. However I doubt this would be happening separate to Inland Rail which was all about freight so yeah.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 11:28:56 PM »
Quote
Track is wider down there and it's only on small sections of track it would reach that speed. (That is top speed of the train anyway) And if the track were to be improved to Toowoomba it could be paid for partly via inland rail funds. Electrification costs are coming down each year. Vic is also behind the eightball when it comes to regional electrification. Why promote dirty, noisy DMU or Diesel hauled freight when it can be electric in populated areas?

How much is it per kilometer to electrify? Do you have recent examples (perhaps the NZ or Adelaide one would be good info if anyone has it?).

Is the track not narrow QR gauge between Toowoomba and Ipswich?  :is-
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 05:12:05 AM »
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Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2017, 10:32:42 AM »
Quote
Track is wider down there and it's only on small sections of track it would reach that speed. (That is top speed of the train anyway) And if the track were to be improved to Toowoomba it could be paid for partly via inland rail funds. Electrification costs are coming down each year. Vic is also behind the eightball when it comes to regional electrification. Why promote dirty, noisy DMU or Diesel hauled freight when it can be electric in populated areas?

How much is it per kilometer to electrify? Do you have recent examples (perhaps the NZ or Adelaide one would be good info if anyone has it?).

Is the track not narrow QR gauge between Toowoomba and Ipswich?  :is-

Besides a few places all railway track in Queensland is narrow gauge. The inland rail project will not be narrow gauge. Inland rail is designed for double stacked containers and 1-1.5km long freight trains so they will have priority as starting/stopping them can reduce the capacity in that area with the long spaced signalling. The two will also have different alignments and traveltimes.

You can not compare costs between previous projects and projects in other countries. Cost changes too much depending on where. Curvy track costs more. Retrofitting to existing in use track costs more because of added safeworking restrictions. Building substations. Getting electricity to those substations. Signaling/station/telecommunication/corridor upgrades. Registered truck movement routes need to be modified/created (The Banyo is a great example of a truck driver ignoring the restricted truck route). Emergency services notifications and safeworking procedures. Establishing new track gangs to be familiar with the overheads/able to quickly respond to issues and carry out inspections.

That's all before you add in the rollingsotck and mtce facilities construction/upgrades.

The inner city train times can be sped up depending on how you run Darra-City. You just have to look to the north to see how Bowen Hills-Northgate/Petrie works with trains stopping all stations and others running express. If you want a fast train in peak hour schedule the Toowoomba train to depart minutes before the Ipswich express or resume the Redbank terminator if you want to get foamy so as the Toowoomba flyer catches the Redbank terminator its pulling off into the siding/stabling - it will then have clear route to the Ipswich service infront with the Ipswich service following only 10 minutes behind. And that's all provided that you can get enough passengers constantly on it to warrant it.

Personally DMUs are the go to option for cost. You could run them as chartered services that the electrics can't get too. You can then position them around where ever you want. You could run them in areas prone to natural disasters where the overheads are easily damaged. You could even shift a few up north if you wanted to trial something basic such as a Cairns-Townsville route. If you want to get into foam mode down the line it might be an option to create a spur in Townsville that links the stadium/hospital and uni/Airport and some suburbs together. You can repeat it in Cairns by running the train out to the airport or even up to Palm Cove. Maybe even have one shuttle running around both towns and another linking the two together. You could even operate Cairns-Townsville as a pre book service. Book 'x' hours before your train and it will stop at your station with boarding from the front car. All you would need to do then would be to retrofit a baggage/club car in the middle which should be petty easy to then provide a more regular shuttle for day trippers/weekends when combined with the Tilts. The only cost there is a mtce facility upgrades, stabling facilities and fuel depots. Its foam but hey they used to do similar things more than a few years ago.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 10:41:53 AM by HappyTrainGuy »
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2017, 11:47:04 AM »
This guy has thought it through alot. Did he give examples of electrification with double stack freight able to clear the lines? No need for new trains NGR rail stock can run that route nicely. Guage convertible sleepers would need to be laid to run dual guage Rosewood to Toowoomba. I don't think you would need standard guage freight heading up the Ipswich line? Maybe in the future?

Example video here in Italy when new tunnels were built to provide faster train services. The gradients maybe the same as heading to Toowoomba.

https://youtu.be/Sl49H5G799s

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2017, 04:14:51 PM »
What would be the best non-electrified trains that would do such a run up to Toowoomba?  Hybrid options?

Would they be suitable for a run to Beaudesert say?  What are stabling and service options for this type of train?  Cost?

If we could establish that, we could call upon the government to import a set and run it during the election campaign.  :fx  :fx

Hint to ALP: LNP has announced $2.5m feasibility study of SEQ Regional Rapid Rail.  ALP could run actual train, call it a 'demonstration run' ... lots of pics and media opportunities.  Should suit Ms Trad down to the ground.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2017, 04:28:04 PM »

Stillwater raises a good point.

There is an opportunity to undercut Tim Nicholls here with Trad announcing a regional rapid rail study program for say $3 million.

$3 million is what? The value of purchasing 3-6 homes in Brisbane?

Trad will be at an advantage here because she will actually have the Cross River Rail tunnel to run any fast trains through.

We know that any train from the Gold Coast MUST cross the Brisbane River, and that high speed trains in mixed rail traffic

dramatically reduces line capacity. So it will absolutely require CRR to be built. It is a good argument for CRR - we need the tunnel

for any future express train services on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast line. It's a 10 minute saving in time already with the tunnnel.

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Offline 300LA

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2017, 10:10:24 PM »
This guy has thought it through alot. Did he give examples of electrification with double stack freight able to clear the lines? No need for new trains NGR rail stock can run that route nicely. Guage convertible sleepers would need to be laid to run dual guage Rosewood to Toowoomba. I don't think you would need standard guage freight heading up the Ipswich line? Maybe in the future?

Example video here in Italy when new tunnels were built to provide faster train services. The gradients maybe the same as heading to Toowoomba.

https://youtu.be/Sl49H5G799s

The business case for IR is all about getting bulk good between Brisbane and Melbourne in under 24hrs. This would be based around having priority access to the track (i.e. not having to give ROW to passenger trains during peak).

The current IR alignment consists of new tracks from Toowoomba to Brisbane. There's no way you would install this as gauge convertable for NG passenger trains as you'd shoot the business case in the foot.

Another thing to consider is if the tunnel will be 1 or 2 tracks. Has this been confirmed?

NG trains *could* use the existing line, but with its current alignment it would hardly be time competitive and it's only single track.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2017, 10:22:46 PM »

What gauge will the track be?
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2017, 10:46:52 PM »

What gauge will the track be?
Standard I believe. But nothing wrong plus it's cost effective with laying two tracks with dual guage sleepers from Toowoomba to Rosewood along the new route.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2017, 01:34:16 AM »
Once Toowoomba regional Rail is up and running with a travel time of 1hour 50min in quiet local pollution free electric trains every 90mins. Everyone will start contemplating enjoying the region as well as commuting to and from for work by train.

https://youtu.be/Y-QFnRrtSiE

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2017, 12:34:21 PM »

What gauge will the track be?
Standard I believe. But nothing wrong plus it's cost effective with laying two tracks with dual guage sleepers from Toowoomba to Rosewood along the new route.

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ.  There is a world of difference building extended sections of duplicated track versus single track, especially where the line is primarily for freight.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2018, 11:01:30 PM »
Great news from the 2018 Budget

http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/mccormack/releases/2018/may/budget-infra_01-2018.aspx

Quote
Toowoomba to Brisbane Passenger Rail Business Case: $15 million to support planning


Only if its electrified with overhead catenary. Maybe to Gatton first as this would be an easier stage. Then second stage to Toowoomba as it would require more tunnelling.

There is a big chance of this being electric, as current rail stock can be used. (easily integrated into the current network, economical and streamlined maintenance, Low impact on the local environment - in reference to air and noise pollution).

Imagine having a Toowoomba - Nambour - Toowoomba run Initially being a Gatton - Nambour - Gatton. I hope all new stations are built to specs and support Driver Only Operations.

Passenger route would be best placed to cut across to Rosewood - Ipswich - Brisbane (Track amplification Darra to Redbank to allow express patterns).

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2018, 11:05:09 PM »
Its possible to run double stacked trains under catenary
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/14928






Speed is not the only consideration.  Safety, and be able to get out of congestion are also factors.

The rail motors to Laidley and Helidon were great services -with bus connections up the range to Toowoomba.

It is a changing demographic out along the line now.

Congestion on the Warrego?



On standard gauge it is possible to double-stack under catenary. Narrow gauge may be a different matter - I don't know if anyone's even tried it, actually.



Regardless of structure gauge, the southern corridor via Kagaru involves tunnelling.  You aren't going to see tunnels built to a wider clearance just for wires when the wires will only ever reach Toowoomba at best.  There is certainly not going to be any more electrification on the current alignment west of Rosewood either.

It really doesn't matter that there will be diesel traction west of Rosewood, for passenger or freight.  The important thing is that the traffic is on the rails.



Speed is not the only consideration.  Safety, and be able to get out of congestion are also factors.

The rail motors to Laidley and Helidon were great services -with bus connections up the range to Toowoomba.

It is a changing demographic out along the line now.

Congestion on the Warrego?

Yep, growing issue.



On standard gauge it is possible to double-stack under catenary. Narrow gauge may be a different matter - I don't know if anyone's even tried it, actually.

I don't know if it's true, but I read that double stacking is impossible on narrow gauge full stop. However, QR has often surprised with what it can achieve on narrow gauge.



Not much point in double-stacking on QR's internal network though.  Double stacking is only likely to be useful on intermodal traffic on the NCL, and it can't fit under the existing wires or through any tunnels.

To fix the issue you would need to do exactly the kind of rebuilding that the NCL upgrade would involve except over a greater geographical area. 

You just need to fix the NCL to Nambour and reconfigure loops and passing lanes north of there.  Then, you could just run 1,800m trains and more frequently than the current stunted ones, without having to play with several hundred km of OHLE, bridges and other clearance issues.



Initially I was only referring to a new improved line from Toowoomba to Rosewood with raised catenary for double stack freight, as well as an electrified line out to Port of Brisbane. I think electrification is important for future clean development. Plus the chance to link Toowoomba up as a regional satelitte city easily accessbile by electric train similar to the townships in the Bluemountains linked to Syd with an electric service. "Yes all dual guage track". (We are only talking about 80km of track to electrify and duplicate from Rosewood.) + some new tunnelling.



Depends on the extent of tunnelling required I suppose.  The route is yet to be locked in but there is some tunnelling no matter what.  The route is meant to be set up for double stacking anyway, so leaving a marginal clearance may not be much to ask.

Kagaru is definitely going to be diesel only, no doubts about that.



Another thing to bear in mind is that battery electric technology is coming along rapidly and it is not out of the question that within 5-10 years it would be feasible for a train to run on the wires out as far as Rosewood and then switch to battery from there. You could even have a few bits of wires just for charging batteries a bit at platforms. There could be a passing loop for diesel freights while the electric passenger train spends a couple of minutes at the platform at Laidley or Gatton getting passengers on an off and topping up the batteries.

This is absolutely plausible given the technology direction we are heading in right now.



Another thing to bear in mind is that battery electric technology is coming along rapidly and it is not out of the question that within 5-10 years it would be feasible for a train to run on the wires out as far as Rosewood and then switch to battery from there. You could even have a few bits of wires just for charging batteries a bit at platforms.



I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. A train uses alot more energy than a tram catenary free. European Countries are still steaming ahead with electrified catenary. They would be the first to implement the technology if it was feasible.  (Having catenary also helps stablise the train and prevent derailments.)
   



Battery electric already exists in service in Japan, on the 3'6"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E301_series

Nothing wrong with DMUs anyway. No need for the 25KV ever to go past Rosewood, if anything it should end at Wulkuraka depot.



Battery electric already exists in service in Japan, on the 3'6"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E301_series

Cool. And then there's this, running on AC power:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E801_series

This could pretty much be bought off the shelf and run from Ipswich to Laidley.



Battery electric already exists in service in Japan, on the 3'6"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E301_series

Cool. And then there's this, running on AC power:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E801_series

This could pretty much be bought off the shelf and run from Ipswich to Laidley.
Lol! 65kph and 2 car units wont cut it from Rosewood to Toowoomba. Especially with another 1 million people expected to settle in Se Qld in years to come.

Did I mention Train stabilization with Catenary "Reduced derailments"

Baseload power has to be put into something with premises starting to swap and produce their own.



I don't think very much of that growth will be happening west of Rosewood.



I don't think very much of that growth will be happening west of Rosewood.

West of Rosewood no, but growth of the suburbs of Toowoomba itself I would consider quite possible. That said, any transport between Toowoomba and Brisbane/Ipswich needs needs to be looked at from a speed and connectivity point of view, moreso than outright capacity.



^ "Toowoomba to Brisbane Passenger Rail Business Case: $15 million to support planning."

A big thumbs up from me! :-t :-t



^^Continuation due to new light from the Federal 2018 Budget.



Great news from the 2018 Budget

http://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/mccormack/releases/2018/may/budget-infra_01-2018.aspx

Quote
Toowoomba to Brisbane Passenger Rail Business Case: $15 million to support planning


Only if its electrified with overhead catenary. Maybe to Gatton first as this would be an easier stage. Then second stage to Toowoomba as it would require more tunnelling.

There is a big chance of this being electric, as current rail stock can be used. (easily integrated into the current network, economical and streamlined maintenance, Low impact on the local environment - in reference to air and noise pollution).

Imagine having a Toowoomba - Nambour - Toowoomba run Initially being a Gatton - Nambour - Gatton. I hope all new stations are built to specs and support Driver Only Operations.

Passenger route would be best placed to cut across to Rosewood - Ipswich - Brisbane (Track amplification Darra to Redbank to allow express patterns).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 11:36:55 PM by verbatim9 »

Offline red dragin

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2018, 09:02:28 AM »
But will the lowered tunnels be able to support the overhead and the larger containers.

Until an alternative route is found, diesel hauled will be fine.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2018, 09:09:30 AM »
Hey I did a fair bit of googling just now with phrases like "catenary prevents derailment", "overhead electrification advantages”, ”catenary train stability” and nothing is coming up to support that assertion.

I think it's just something you made up, Verbatim9

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2018, 11:29:20 AM »
Re getting regular passenger trains to Toowoomba .. fantastic idea.  The Business Case will soon focus on the big problem - the Great Dividing Range.  There were, I believe, considerations about this project some time ago, during planning for Second Range Crossing.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 06:23:11 PM by Stillwater »

Online ozbob

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2018, 11:50:52 AM »
As can be expected there is a lot of interest in the $15M business case plan in Toowoomba today.

Had a chat to the Toowoomba Chronicle and the local television news reporter too.

 :-t



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Online ozbob

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2018, 04:58:59 PM »
https://twitter.com/TRCMayor/status/994106730605957120
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Offline SteelPan

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2018, 06:18:11 PM »
Electric and new Range Crossing......NOW IS the Time to do it BOTH for Urban HighER Speed Rail AND a new freight corridor for the Inland Rail.....as Margaret Thatcher would say...."come on people...don't go wobbly now".......electric and NEW Range Crossings!  If they can do for road...they can do it for RAIL!

Let's do it........THE most exciting opportunity for ALL of South Eastern Queensland in DECADES!!!!!!!    :pr


If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Offline SteelPan

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2018, 06:27:17 PM »
Practical first necessary step...quad the remainder of Brisbane/Ipswich!  Over to you Annastacia  :pr
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Offline Cazza

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2018, 06:34:04 PM »
This project will provide huge relief in regards to overpopulation and insufficient infrastructure in SEQ, more importantly, Brisbane. Bringing travel times to around 1 hour between the two makes Toowoomba a viable option for people to live in and then catch the train to work in Brisbane. Obviously, this then reduces housing prices as there is a lower demand and then there is less traffic focused on the major road corridors to and from the CBD and surrounds.


Offline Gazza

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2018, 06:55:06 PM »
Realistically, only a few thousand people per day would make the commute, so I don't think it's realistic to say that it would cause a mass demographic shift or population relief

Not that im saying don't build it...Will be great to finally have a rail link, and the inland rail link works provide a good opportunity to piggyback and do what would otherwhise probably never be done.

Offline Cazza

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2018, 07:44:51 PM »
I'm not thinking that if it was open tomorrow that you would see people flocking up the range. It's more for the medium term where you will find Brisbane beginning to feel the effects of overpopulation. By 2050 (yes, it may be 30 years away but it will inevitably creep up on us if we aren't careful), Brisbane will be the size that Sydney is now (e.g. around 5 million).

Having proper infrastructure to surrounding regions like Toowoomba (similar to Melbourne and Geelong) will encourage controlled growth so you won't see Brisbane suffer with the same problems that Sydney are experiencing now (lack of infrastructure in strong growth areas).

Online ozbob

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2018, 07:07:38 AM »
https://twitter.com/darthcaligula66/status/994321133477380096


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Offline Stillwater

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2018, 07:33:49 AM »
The 'Brisbane in 45 mins.' headline has a familiar ring, particularly for those who live on the Sunshine Coast!  Just where does Brisbane start?  It takes an hour to Ipswich by train from Brisbane now, so how the hell can 45 mins. Toowoomba-Brisbane be achieved?  Run on standard gauge via Inland Rail?  Using the train sets that will run to Beaudesert, maybe, perhaps?

This is starting to have a pollies' promise hue about it - some slogans for the next election campaign.  Maybe it is time to look more strategically at 'peri-urban' rail plan -- assuming the trains and the drivers existed for this sort of thing - apart from the SCL, which is a 'shovel ready' project between Beerburrum and Landsborough North.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2018, 10:33:49 AM »
^^I assume 45 mins to Rosewood/Ipswich then another 35-40mins to Central (express pattern)?

Offline Arnz

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2018, 11:06:04 AM »
^^ Rosewood is not "Brisbane".

Same questions for where the "Sunshine Coast" starts in the North Coast Connect 45 minute bullet train proposal, is it Landsborough, Nambour, Caloundra or Maroochydore?  and will it use the Trouts Road corridor or the existing via Northgate corridor?
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2018, 05:52:21 PM »
Say that the train (NGR) with new aligned track and electrification can travel at 140kph over 80km from Rosewood to Toowoomba but needs to slow for stations and inclines. You would be looking at around 45mins. A train travelling at 140kph over 80km takes 35mins without stopping.

The councillor is right but should clarify the outer city limits of Ipswich would take 45mins with another 35-40mins express pattern to Central. Stopping at Ipswich Darra and Indooroopilly.

Offline SteelPan

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Re: Toowoomba Regional Rapid Rail
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2018, 11:38:25 PM »
I'm not going to get overly bogged down in specific travel times.....it'll just be wonderful to see Bris/Twmba gain a 1940'/50 level of basic rail infrastructure, ie, daily regular interurban rail services between two major SEQ cities, right next door to each other! I'd imagine in the 21stC the technology in both construction and rolling stock will help boost travel times and reduce costs....
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

 

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