Regional Fast Rail discussion

[Ari 🚋]

An 11-vehicle pile-up that clogged the M1 for hours on Tuesday showed why Brisbane must continuously upgrade road infrastructure in the lead-up to the Olympic Games, lord mayor Adrian Schrinner says.

Likening the scale of accident to those usually seen on icy roads, the lord mayor said having infrastructure keep pace with population growth was one of the reasons south-east Queensland pitched for the 2032 Olympics.

Schrinner chairs the South East Queensland Council of Mayors, which began the campaign in 2015 for the region to host the Olympics.

"It is one of the reasons why we put our hat into the ring for the Olympics and started that process, so we can get the attention from other levels of government for the infrastructure that we need." ...

Dealing with weight gain by loosening your belt. Typical

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

A Fast Rail vision for SEQ

30th July 2022

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers wants fast rail services running across SEQ by 2032.

There are increasing calls for a SEQ Fast Rail network to be built in time for the 2032 Olympics.
The SEQ Council of Mayors launched it's "Let's Get Moving" campaign, and Rail Back on Track have repeatedly called for investment in regional fast rail in SEQ.

Whilst the Olympics are a headliner, linking the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast and Toowoomba with fast rail should happen regardless.

It would unify our region, save time, avoid congestion, allow decentralisation and have massive economic benefits.

Why Fast Rail?

Currently if you are catching a train to the Gold or Sunshine Coasts it's slower than driving.
If you want to go to Toowoomba, there's no regular train service at all!

This is a real problem.

When rail travel isn't convenient, people drive en masse instead. To attempt to keep up with this demand, the government is planning on building new motorways parallel to existing ones, and all manner of continuous roadworks.

Increasing car travel is increasing our emissions.
Ultimately these new roads fill up after a few years, and we are all stuck in congestion.

What is Fast Rail?

Fast rail involves a combination of building new lines and straightening old ones in order to allow speeds in the range 160 - 200 km/h.

This is because trains cannot negotiate sharp turns without derailing.

Many existing rail lines in SEQ were built at the turn of the century and have never been straightened, so trains often must slow to 50km/h to negotiate turns. It's not possible to provide convenient fast services with these constraints.

On the other hand several modern motorway and tunnel projects have been built.
The Motorways are built to be fast, but the train lines aren't.

Importantly, fast rail can carry huge numbers of people. One fast rail line can move more people than an entire motorway, in total safety.

Is it a Bullet Train?

Bullet Trains, or High Speed Rail, as seen overseas travel at around 300km/h plus.
These are better suited for long distance travel between cities, with very few stations (Usually one per city).
They require very straight dedicated tracks separated from other train types, and very specialised trains.

Fast Rail in SEQ, to Maroochydore, Toowoomba and Coolangatta is serving a radius of around 100km from the CBD, and would have some stops on the way, given the dispersed nature of SEQ.

Trains wouldn't really get a chance to get up to 300km/h or faster in this setup, so it's not worth the extra money to have bullet trains operating within SEQ only.

So Fast Rail is the best choice?

Yes!  The Australian rail speed record is presently held by Queensland Rail's Electric Tilt Train, which achieved 210km/h during a test run on 23 May 1999.
Fast rail is achievable on 1067 mm gauge.

Fast rail still allows for a decent, adequate top speed of 160-200 km/h, and can accelerate quickly.
Faster than driving and faster than any bus.
Stations are several kilometres apart.
Close enough together that fast rail services are accessible to most people.
Far enough apart that trains can maintain a good speed between stations.

Fast Rail can hook into existing CBD stations and Cross River Rail, so the focus can be on improving tracks elsewhere to deliver time savings.

Where could it stop?

Gold Coast:
Roma St
Woolloongabba
Boggo Rd
Sunnybank
Loganlea
Beenleigh
Ormeau
Pimpama
Coomera
Hope Island
Helensvale
Nerang
Merrimac
Robina
Varsity Lakes
Elanora
Tugun
Coolangatta

Toowoomba:
Roma St
Darra
Ipswich
Rosewood
Laidley
Gatton
Toowoomba

Sunshine Coast:
Roma St
Alderley
Strathpine
Petrie
Caboolture
Beerwah
Aura
Caloundra
Currimundi
Birtinya
Mountain Creek
Maroochydore

So how fast could it go?

Be very cautious in simply taking the top speed of the train and dividing by the distance. Trains take time to decelerate and accelerate for each station, For example the fast train from Perth to Mandurah has a top speed of 140km/h, but the average speed is closer to 90km/h when you divide it out.

We believe these travel times are reasonable:

Coolangatta>Brisbane: 70 minutes

(Drive Time: 75 mins offpeak, 95 mins peak)

Toowoomba>Brisbane: 90 minutes
(Drive Time: 100 mins offpeak, 120 mins peak)

Maroochydore>Brisbane: 80 minutes
(Drive Time: 90 mins offpeak, 120 mins peak)

This means no matter the time of day or night, fast rail will offer the quickest trip, and particularly in peak times could save around half an hour each way.

Do we have to wait for Cross River Rail to be finished?

No!

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said.
"Once we deal with Cross River Rail we can start looking at extensions" (Courier Mail 10/11/2021)
But we don't need to wait!

Cross River Rail is well into construction. We should get a head start on planning and design work now, so by 2025 when the construction workforce has finished Cross River Rail they can transition to building these fast rail projects.
With a 5 year construction period, Fast Rail could be up and running by 2030, comfortably ahead of the 2032 Olympics.

What Projects would need to be built?

- A fast corridor between Beenleigh and the City
Between Beenleigh and the CBD, "Express trains" from the Gold Coast must negotiate a snakelike route, taking 50 minutes to travel just 40km.
The current Gold Coast and Logan Faster Rail project will straighten some of this out, but doesn't go far enough.
A properly designed continuous fast route between Beenleigh and the CBD is the true solution to slash journey times.

- Complete the planned extension from Varsity Lakes to Coolangatta.
This would be a new build, so can be designed to allow fast running on this section from day one. It would mean the entire Gold Coast has good access to fast rail.

- Complete the line from Beerwah to Maroochydore.
Rail to the heart of the Sunshine Coast's heavily populated coastal strip has been touted for decades, but to date has been fobbed off in favour of projects elsewhere.
This would be a new build, so can be designed to allow fast running on this section from day one.

- A fast corridor to the CBD via Strathpine and Alderley
When trains from the Sunshine Coast reach the edge of Brisbane they inevitably have to mix it up with local trains on the Redcliffe and Shorncliffe Lines, and the route into the city isn't particularly direct.
Utilizing the Trouts Road Transport Corridor through the Northside would allow a fast straight rail line to be built, giving trains an unimpeded route.

- Improvements to the Western line between Ipswich and Toowoomba
Currently the only train to Toowoomba is the twice weekly Westlander tourist service.
It takes over 3 hours to travel between Ipswich and Toowoomba due to the winding route over the Great Dividing Range.
The Federal Government's Inland Rail Project will bypass these slow sections with tunnels, greatly reducing travel times.
Fast Rail services can piggyback onto this infrastructure, along with other improvements elsewhere and new stations, allowing for Toowoomba to finally get fast passenger trains at reasonable cost.

All these projects can occur simultaneously across the region and would come together to finally create the SEQ Fast Rail network.

How Much Will it Cost?

We believe around $16b (billion)* to complete all projects. Rollingstock would an additional cost. 
This would involve around 80km of new tracks, utilise new trains, and upgrades to existing lines and stations.
By comparison, the 5km Airport Link M7 road project in Inner Brisbane was $4.8b.
$16b Represents a bargain considering the broader the massive benefits it will create for the region.
The cost is commensurate with other major rail projects occurring interstate.
Ultimately, we want the government to reassess its priorities and put this project first.

*
$4.5b - Beenleigh to CBD Corridor
$2.5b - Coolangatta Extension
$3.5b - Beerwah to Maroochydore
$2.5b - Toowoomba projects
$3.0b - Strathpine to Alderley

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

A Fast Rail vision for SEQ 30th July 2022 RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Friday, 29 July 2022

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1553177444969959425

[#Metro]

Gold Coast:
Roma St
Woolloongabba
Boggo Rd
Sunnybank
Loganlea
Beenleigh
Ormeau
Pimpama
Coomera
Hope Island
Helensvale
Nerang
Merrimac
Robina
Varsity Lakes
Elanora
Tugun
Coolangatta

Since I last did a spreadsheet model of this setup, there will be more stations on the Gold Coast Line.

Also, we need to draw a distinction between trip times (in-vehicle) and overall journey times (all trip components).

We would add 10 minutes access times at both ends of the journey (+20 min)
We would also have to adjust for service frequency. It matters a lot if the service is going to be coming every 30 minutes (+15 min average wait) or every 15 minutes (+7.5 min average wait)

Ideally, the train needs to be about 2x the speed of a car to compensate for these additional journey components such as access times and service frequency penalties.

This of course has to be balanced against just running more trains more frequently. Just doing that could boost patronage by a factor of 2x-4x (see Mandurah Line in Perth which runs 4X patronage of Gold Coast Line pre-COVID19).

You could also consider adding more trains as an interim measure as plans are drawn up.

 

[ozbob]

Lot of interest for this post over in Facebook land ...

Facebook ...

A Fast Rail vision for SEQ 30th July 2022 RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Friday, 29 July 2022

[SteelPan]

Excellent work this. Well done to everyone involved.   

Again my only suggestion would be, in due course, a "public meeting" on this vision, to help keep the momentum moving forward.  The thought to pollies, of the people holding [a] meeting/s to discuss theses issues, why they sit like frigid teens in the corner at a school dance, is what will put the wind up them!  [I'm happy to help organise, in any way I can, when the time is right].      

[SteelPan]

For General Information Only - Food for background thought, on the issue of trains that go faster....the good, the bad and indifferent!  Things for Qld/wider Oz to maybe one day learn from

[SteelPan]

Note please, the focus in the USA [population over 330 million people] is on REGIONAL fastER rail. NOT HSR across long distances, between major cities.

[Ari 🚋]

Note please, the focus in the USA [population over 330 million people] is on REGIONAL fastER rail. NOT HSR across long distances, between major cities.

Absolutely. HSR is great, but you need the infrastructure, connecting services, and the population to support it. For Queensland I think the next big project should be fast (~200km/hr) rail to and through the Sunshine Coast, with provisions for connecting this back to the NCL around Gympie. Run fast regional rail up the coast, and use the extended corridor to improve tilt train speeds and free the existing corridor up for freight. Further down the line again, extend these speeds to the Gold Coast. If we can use this type of fast regional rail to develop a corridor of transit-focused, high-density areas then maybe HSR will be more feasible in the future.

[kram0]

Can't see any of this happening unfortunately. I'd be surprised if we see Trouts corridor developed in the next 10 years to be honest.

[Ari 🚋]

Can't see any of this happening unfortunately. I'd be surprised if we see Trouts corridor developed in the next 10 years to be honest.

That's the QLD special - release a lot of shiny brochures to distract from the fact that you're doing very little to substantially improve PT in the state!

[ozbob]

2012: A prefeasibility study for Fast Rail Commuter Service between Rockhampton, Gladstone and Bundaberg

https://capricornenterprise.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FINAL-27072012_CE-QR_Commute-train-study.pdf

[minbrisbane]

I guess that went no further?

[Jonno]

Too may urban roads to widen to have anything left for rail.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I guess that went no further?

Translink/TMR subsidised greyhound and other bus services instead due to cost effectiveness and greater operational ability.

[Arnz]

I guess that went no further?

Translink/TMR subsidised greyhound and other bus services instead due to cost effectiveness and greater operational ability.

They're either Regional to Regional services or City to Thin Regional Towns being subsidised as an 'essential' service (E.g Toowoomba to Rockhampton or Brisbane to Western Queensland towns via Toowoomba).

Short services such as Toowoomba terminators or interstate services are not included in the subsidy.

https://www.greyhound.com.au/company/news/latest/greyhound-australia-awarded-six-new-queensland-services

[Stillwater]

Just let this sink in. By 2050, Queensland will have an extra 2 million people. SEQ will be home to four in five Queenslanders.

https://mccrindle.com.au/article/topic/demographics/the-future-of-south-east-queensland

A SEQ fast rail network anyone? Anyone?

[#Metro]

We have proposed fast rail before, such as the R1 to the Gold Coast.

[SteelPan]

<<<FASTTrak...Whooosh!>>>

Copyright: QldGovt Fast Rail Planning Plan 2075

[ozbob]

Interview 28 Nov 2023 ABC Radio Brisbane Drive Host Steve Austin with Robert Dow RBoT discuss fast rail for regional Queensland.

Here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbris_sa_rd_28nov23.mp3 MP3  10.0 MB

[ozbob]

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1729508319457431682?s=20

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

Fast rail vs. high speed rail: the Queensland context. 29th November 2023 Interview here -->...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Tuesday, 28 November 2023

[aldonius]

With all the new AI tools it's not too difficult to generate a nice transcript.

(This one involved Whisper for the transcription and then GPT to clean it up, not least putting paragraphs in. The cleanup was harder --- and still incomplete!)

[ozbob]

^ thanks!   

[verbatim9]

Fast rail to the Sunny Coast, OOL and Toowoomba is the top priority of any other infrastructure project in Qld -Recent Courier Mail survey suggests.

Courier Mail --->https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/sentiment-survey-damning-poll-exposes-grim-reality-of-qld-transport-infrastructure/news-story/1b142a088c03d056b1c1e52ce4f287f2