Regional Fast Rail discussion

[#Metro]

Your modelled times are still way off.  It will not take as long as you are suggesting to get from Roma St to Boggo Road.

I've used the travel time between South Bank and South Brisbane as the standard. If anyone knows the actual travel times between CRR stations from DTMR public material, that would be interesting.

A projection is neither true nor false, but only more or less appropriate. I've also been conservative, as projects tend to be more over expensive and under deliver than under expensive and over deliver.

If we have tilts, it might knock a few more minutes off the times. Tilts are proven technology already in use in QLD. Not sure what the accelerations on tilts are - does anyone know?

[Gazza]

Nothing ' false ' about it. Just a tradeoff.

I'll give you another station if you can find a way to cut the travel time down further.

This service must be FAST.

No what I mean is that youve decided you don't want a station at Springwood so wrote the poll question to get the answer you wanted (since obviously people will pick Garden city, if you make out your model can only support one station in the sothern suburbs.

Anyway, if its a new line, no reason you cant make passive provision for quadding south of 8mp as they are doing in Melbourne on the dandenong skytrain 

A better poll of RBoT members might be:

-How many stops between park Rd and beenleigh?
-Rank possible stops in order of preference

[tazzer9]

Nothing ' false ' about it. Just a tradeoff.

I'll give you another station if you can find a way to cut the travel time down further.

This service must be FAST.

No, It should get people from the place they they currently are to a place they want to go in a short time.   Otherwise why not just just build a maglev from brisbane airport to coolangatta airport with only 1 stop at coomera.

[SurfRail]

The way I see it, we are looking at the following stations on a Gold Coast service bypassing the existing alignment north of Beenleigh.

Bold underlined = existing
Bold italic underlined = preserved sites, or under active consideration for CRR, which I would want to see built
Underlined = prospective sites between Ormeau and the city via the new alignment, which I would want to see built
Italics = preserved sites I have no interest in seeing built

Gold Coast Airport
Tugun
Elanora
Tallebudgera
Varsity Lakes
Robina
Merrimac
Nerang
Parkwood
Helensvale
Hope Island
Coomera
Pimpama
Ormeau
Ormeau North
Beenleigh or Yatala (not both)
Loganholme
Springwood
Eight Mile Plains
Upper Mt Gravatt
Boggo Road
Woolloongabba
Albert Street
Roma Street CRR

Assuming you ignore the preserved stations, you are talking about 15 stations between Roma Street and Coolangatta exclusive, and 12 stations from the edge of the CBD area at Boggo Road to Coolangatta.  Varsity Lakes is about 89km from Roma Street and the trip takes on average about 79 minutes (southbound is slower than northbound - 77 min v 80 min).  The airport extension would add something like another 17km or so, but you would cut distance out by realigning between Yatala/Beenleigh and the CBD.

By way of comparison, when Aubin Grove opens the Mandurah line will have 10 stations between Perth Underground and Mandurah exclusive, and 9 stations from the edge of the CBD area at Elizabeth Quay (formerly Esplanade) to Mandurah.  Mandurah is about 70km from Perth Underground and the trip takes 51 minutes all stops.

[Gazza]

On that list I broadly agree with your preferred stations, but I think you're being too harsh on Hope Island.

The reason is that Tamborine Oxenford rd, and Hope Island Rd have huge amounts of development on them, and large amounts of traffic trying to get onto the M1.

Currently pax in this area have to make an annoying indirect journey to access rail.

Though if the intra regional transport corridor were built then that would sovle the problem above I guess.

Re beenleigh, they've been making some effort to pedestrianise and beautify the town center, it would be a shame to pull the railway away from this.

Maybe a broader town plan to turn the area into a hub as part of the project (With the tagline of fast connections to the bne CBD and GC airport)

The land around beenleigh station is car parks, vacant or older buildings, so id seriously consider innovative arrangements to get a combined station complex, even if it involves elevated platforms/skytrain type arrangements....not sure of the answer yet because im outside Aus

[SurfRail]

I have some personal knowledge about the landholdings in the vicinity of Beenleigh which I am not at liberty to share - suffice to say developing that nice big vacant patch on the western side isn't necessarily as easy as it might be elsewhere.  There is a reason why it is still vacant.

[#Metro]

No what I mean is that youve decided you don't want a station at Springwood so wrote the poll question to get the answer you wanted (since obviously people will pick Garden city, if you make out your model can only support one station in the sothern suburbs.

Disagree.

Original concept didn't have a station at Mt Gravatt at all. It was someone else's suggestion to put it in there.

I think I had one at Springwood, but feedback for Mt Gravatt was stronger so I deleted it. Let me know if you find some time savings.

Otherwise why not just just build a maglev from brisbane airport to coolangatta airport with only 1 stop at coomera.

Logan pax can access RRR from their existing QR stations. Cross platform transfer at Beenleigh. 8 Logan RRR stations in total. Ideally I would have the train run at HSR speeds and much faster but we are constrained by legacy infrastructure, single gauge.

[tazzer9]

The way I see it, we are looking at the following stations on a Gold Coast service bypassing the existing alignment north of Beenleigh.

Bold underlined = existing
Bold italic underlined = preserved sites, or under active consideration for CRR, which I would want to see built
Underlined = prospective sites between Ormeau and the city via the new alignment, which I would want to see built
Italics = preserved sites I have no interest in seeing built

Gold Coast Airport
Tugun
Elanora
Tallebudgera
Varsity Lakes
Robina
Merrimac
Nerang
Parkwood
Helensvale
Hope Island
Coomera
Pimpama
Ormeau
Ormeau North
Beenleigh or Yatala (not both)
Loganholme
Springwood
Eight Mile Plains
Upper Mt Gravatt
Boggo Road
Woolloongabba
Albert Street
Roma Street CRR

Assuming you ignore the preserved stations, you are talking about 15 stations between Roma Street and Coolangatta exclusive, and 12 stations from the edge of the CBD area at Boggo Road to Coolangatta.  Varsity Lakes is about 89km from Roma Street and the trip takes on average about 79 minutes (southbound is slower than northbound - 77 min v 80 min).  The airport extension would add something like another 17km or so, but you would cut distance out by realigning between Yatala/Beenleigh and the CBD.

By way of comparison, when Aubin Grove opens the Mandurah line will have 10 stations between Perth Underground and Mandurah exclusive, and 9 stations from the edge of the CBD area at Elizabeth Quay (formerly Esplanade) to Mandurah.  Mandurah is about 70km from Perth Underground and the trip takes 51 minutes all stops.

Good list, But definitely don't have an 8 Mile plains station if you have upper mt gravatt and springwood. 
A whole new station at Yatala is far better than anything a redone beenleigh station could have with a similar budget. 
Yatala would have 4 platforms, two for through GC-brisbane services and two for 'beenleigh' line. Could even keep beenleigh as a terminating location for some peak hour all stops services.

[SurfRail]

^ The main reason for 8 Mile Plains is park and ride capacity, not for anything nearby, so I definitely take the point.

On further consideration - if you built the staging as I contemplated in some other recent post (ie link between Eight Mile Plains and Kuraby), you could have only the Beenleigh trains stopping at Eight Mile Plains, which would keep speeds up and still take advantage of the existing park'n'ride capacity and proximity to several motorways.

Mandurah is meant to be capable of 24tph eventually for the stretch inbound of Cockburn Central, so I don't subscribe to the view we can't aim for the same inbound of Eight Mile Plains.  8tph Gold Coast with the remaining 16tph split between Beenleigh and a short-working Gold Coast service (eg only as far as the Hyperdome).

Throughrouting to the northside would be something like:
- GC to SC
- Beenleigh to Caboolture
- Hyperdome to Roma Street

[SteelPan]

SE Qld TransRAILApex 2030

High[ER] Speed Networks

1) Brisbane/Gold Coast [ie, between Brisbane CBD and Beenleigh - 2 new Beenleigh to GC Stations - take GC line on to Tweed in NSW - big moment for Aussie that, we've only Federated n 1901!]

2) Brisbane to Sunshine Coast

3) Brisbane to Toowoomba - would be a huge plus to SE Qld, take pressure off the coastal fringe housing crush and turn Toowoomba into a major dormitory city. It is shameful, two cities of the size of Brisbane and Toowoomba, have to this hour, an antique rail connection. The LNP has done little over the decades for Toowoomba and the people who call it home, are dills to keep blindly voting for them! Mind you, the other mob would not have Toowoomba high on their list either. Poor road connection [2nd range crossing now under construction of course], poor water resources, effectively nil rail - major Oz inland city, very bad].

SE Qld TransRAILApex 2030

[Marshal]

When you compare Brisbane to Sydney or Melbourne, the big geographical difference that stands out is that both Sydney and Melbourne are reasonably centrally located within their state, with other urban centres fanned out around them reasonably concentrically (Newcastle, Bathurst, Moss Vale, Wollongong and Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Seymour, Sale). Brisbane on the other hand is tucked right into the corner, with most QLD's other bigger cities in a line up the coast. So regional rail as a major form of transport was always going to be a greater challenge for us.

But it really does need to be said that there is a lot more we could be doing. Between Ipswich and Toowoomba, Laidley and Gatton are great candidates for regional urban centres, using a rail link to allow residents to commute to work in Ipswich and Brisbane. Further still you'd open the door to more development around these centres. You could probably really cerement in Laidley, Gatton and perhaps one more area as major little towns without having to displace too much of the agricultural land located around these areas.

Compared to the regional networks NSW and Victoria run, a proper Brisbane - Sunshine Coast/Gold Coast/ Toowoomba can't be that hard

[ozbob]

Couriemail --> Queensland Opposition makes bid for bullet train proposal

A BULLET train connecting the Gold Coast to Brisbane, the Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay could be on the cards for Queensland.

As the Palaszczuk Government ramps up its campaign against the Commonwealth for failing to commit further funds to its $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project in last week's Federal Budget, Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls has written to the Prime Minister asking him to consider another rail project for the state – a very fast train.

It is the latest salvo in the war to win over the hearts and minds of Queensland commuters, although how much it would cost taxpayers is uncertain.

The LNP Opposition hopes it can secure some Federal cash should it win government to develop a business case for the project.

"The Australian Government's $20 million Faster Rail Initiative creates an exciting opportunity for southeast Queensland," Mr Nicholls and his deputy Deb Frecklington wrote in a letter to Mr Turnbull seeking a slice of the funds.

"We seek the Australian Government's support for business case funding through this initiative for a Very Fast Train linking the Gold Coast, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay."

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

15th May 2017

Very fast rail for SEQ - the dream is alive!

Good Morning,

As the electoral cycle churns along we often see a phenomenon we term ' raining rail '.

It has started again as #qldvotes looms.  Mr Nicholls LNP Opposition Leader, has come on board with very fast rail for the Gold Coast. Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay.  What about Toowoomba too Tim?

Don't get us wrong, we think there is a case for very fast rail, particularly for the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast.

(See Regional Rapid Rail link discussion at our discussion forum).

Cross River Rail is still needed and could well be an important component of very fast rail  to the coasts.

But seriously our jurisdiction is one that struggles to run adequate suburban railway services and embrace essential but fundamental bus network reform.  It is hard to get overly confident about the latest very fast rail proposals.

Don't forget it was also part of the ' Connecting SEQ 2031 ' plan which seems to have been buried of late.

You can reminisce with this nice video ' Connecting SEQ - Rail Revolution ' >



Have a great week!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Reference:

Couriermail --> Queensland Opposition makes bid for bullet train proposal

A BULLET train connecting the Gold Coast to Brisbane, the Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay could be on the cards for Queensland.

    As the Palaszczuk Government ramps up its campaign against the Commonwealth for failing to commit further funds to its $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project in last week's Federal Budget, Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls has written to the Prime Minister asking him to consider another rail project for the state – a very fast train.

    It is the latest salvo in the war to win over the hearts and minds of Queensland commuters, although how much it would cost taxpayers is uncertain.

    The LNP Opposition hopes it can secure some Federal cash should it win government to develop a business case for the project.

    "The Australian Government's $20 million Faster Rail Initiative creates an exciting opportunity for southeast Queensland," Mr Nicholls and his deputy Deb Frecklington wrote in a letter to Mr Turnbull seeking a slice of the funds.

    "We seek the Australian Government's support for business case funding through this initiative for a Very Fast Train linking the Gold Coast, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Wide Bay."

[ozbob]

Latest media: ' Very fast rail for SEQ - the dream is alive! '
> https://t.co/0vBcyR7X61#qldpol #auspol@TimNichollsMP @AnnastaciaMP pic.twitter.com/7JHbAPm2Vf

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) May 14, 2017

[Stillwater]

Proof that a state election must be due soon.  The major parties have to come up with something for that gun-toting, bible belt, kidney-shaped constituency that sits north and north-west of Brisbane and is inclined to vote for the Fishers and Shooters Party, One Nation or similar.  Politics aside, rapid regional rail for SEQ (similar to V-Line) would assist in serving the satellite communities and inter-connected economy and settlement pattern that is evolving fast.  Properly handled, it could be a significant economic stimulus.  Do we trust the ALP and the LNP to manage it?  Let me see ... who is the local Fishers and Shooters Party candidate?

Naturally, there will be some cynicism from the masses.  This, from the CM site, is typical: "How about we just focus on trying to get the current old clickety-clack track simply duplicated north and south of Brisbane, before you boys get too carried away."

Will the Gold Coast-Wide Bay rapid rail be standard gauge ... to link into Brisbane-Sydney high-speed rail eventually?

Let's hope the media don't get too distracted by this shiny new bauble and keep the pressure on the government to deliver on doable projects in the here-and-now, such as SCL duplication and Springfield Line connection to Ripley Valley etc.  Clickety-clack first, whooooosh second.

[#Metro]

It is fortunate that RBOT has had a discussion of sorts on Regional Rapid Rail http://tiny.cc/SEQHSR before this has come up in the political process.

From the discussions we have had on the forum, we are aware of some problems and the solutions for them.

Firstly, RRR is probably best done as narrow gauge like the existing network.* This would save a lot of costs.

Secondly, tilt train technology is proven in Queensland and could reasonably aim for an in-service speed of say 160 km/hr or around that ballpark.

Thirdly, the Gold Coast line is a very good candidate for RRR. It is desirable, but not essential, to separate the Gold Coast Line from the Beenleigh line and have an alignment broadly following the M1. This could be brought in when required - the tilt trains don't require a new alignment.

Sunshine Coast will be much more difficult as the rail simply isn't there so construction will be required. A decision will need to be made on whether the goal is to have a better bad alignment that is cheaper but slower or a new and excellent alignment that is faster but more expensive.

There is a question also around whether the RRR would use a Trouts Road alignment and tunnel branching from CRR to get to the Sunshine Coast. If it does not, it will be much slower. To be frank, I really doubt any kind of high speed or even medium speed rail will make it to the Sunshine coast anytime soon, if ever. They haven't even got their existing rail 'to do list' sorted in that region.

* Toowoomba is the wildcard here. An unlikely option this has now changed given that the inland rail project will change the game by building a decent track and a tunnel through the base of the Toowoomba Range. If the track is standard gauge, then trains to Toowoomba would also have to be standard gauge too.

This implies that Toowoomba trains would have to begin at Roma Street, as that is where the dual gauge begins and ends. It also implies that Queensland Rail might not be the operator of the trains. Toowoomba Regional Council could operate the trains, or perhaps a private operator integrated with the TransLink network.

[ozbob]

..
* Toowoomba is the wildcard here. An unlikely option this has now changed given that the inland rail project will change the game by building a decent track and a tunnel through the base of the Toowoomba Range. If the track is standard gauge, then trains to Toowoomba would also have to be standard gauge too.  ...

The track is planned to be dual gauge ( at least for the sections Gowrie Junction <> Calvert <> Kagaru ).  No problem with 3'6" to Toowoomba on the Inland Freight line.

Trains for Toowoomba would go Brisbane <> Ipswich <> Calvert <> Gowrie Junction <> Toowoomba essentially.

[verbatim9]

Hope it's electrified or the idea thrown around with rapid recharge with sections of catenary. But then would increase costs due to having to buy new rolling stock. Are the opposition just  thinking of just Gold Coast to Harvey Bay? Not including Toowoomba or including Toowoomba. I still think the Toowoomba passenger link best built with inland rail Two tracks dual guage and electrified with a link to Rosewood. Can have services running express from 0400-0100 60-90mins intervals 7 days - Toowoomba, Gatton, Halidon, Ipswich, Darra, Indooroopilly, Roma Street Central, Valley, Bowen Hills. With some services to extend to the domestic Airport. Notice that a couple Rosewood services do already. It will really open the region up to alternative residential living other than the Brisbane Gold Coast basin and will deter the need to widen the Warrigo Hwy every 10 years 

Sydney has had electrified services running to Lithgow for years with great success and ever increasing patronage, driving tourism to the area. Toowoomba and the region can benefit from the same.

[Stillwater]

^ Absolutely!  When in Sydney, I try to get to Blue Mtns for a couple of days - catch the train to Katoomba.  It is the preferred way for backpackers to travel to visit the Three Sisters and take the tourist loop bus to all of the attractions.

Looks like we might have a couple of different projects heading to the state election.  Business Case funding commitment for Gold Coast-Wide Bay rapid regional rail from the LNP (with Brisbane Metro thrown in) and a stalled ALP-inspired CRR with no Business Case and no funding from the feds.  LNP will have to explain where money will come from for RRR.  ALP will need to do more than cry foul over funding, or else be seen to be a 'do nothing' government.

Seems it is the battle for the hearts and minds of those in the SEQ regional seats that the LNP hopes to retain/win and the inner city seats that Labor hopes to hold/win through the urban renewal that CRR would bring.

Now what will Pauline do?  Rapid Regional Rail variant to Beaudesert, Nanango/Kingaroy and Maryborough?

[SurfRail]

We should call out idiotic proposals for what they are, regardless of who proposes them.

Complete and utter waste of time focusing on passenger rail north of Nambour at the expense of the metropolitan network.

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 16th May 2017 page 19

On track for more rail talk

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/RailExpressNews/status/895043291275644928

[SteelPan]

The economic and social positives of building a new, high-quality inter-urban rail link, between Rosewood and Toowoomba can not be readily over-hyped.

Toowoomba, has enormous potential to take pressure off inflated property prices in the SEQ region. An "over the Range" philosophy, would also help take pressure off hard-pressed coastal services, possibly help slow the need for rapid and ever growing expenditure on some key coastal infrastructure projects and bring people the lifestyle enhancements of being able to enjoy the best of SEQ and the Downs. This I suspect would be a real winner with young couples/families.

It really is Smart SEQ thinking in the 21stC. The only "question mark" one could raise, is water resources on the Downs...but if that stops us in the 21stC we might has well give up now.....

In due course a modern coastal/Downs rail link would also open the door to Downs based sprinter services to other population centres.

There's a real political opportunity here with a state election closing in.....let's hope this time, we see an elevated infrastructure discussion, above the ever present "football stadiums" ravings of the political opportunists and sports/media commercial sectors!   

Ps. in addition, to the specific benefits outlined above, there are of course, a few growing communities between Rosewood and Toowoomba - a couple of them would be perfect major regional transit nodes, linking rail and road based public transport options for growing populations.

[OzGamer]

Overhead/battery hybrid trains for Auckland: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/335534/auckland-set-to-get-new-battery-powered-trains

These could potentially be used to extend services beyond Rosewood to Laidley, Gatton, or even Toowoomba depending on the range of the batteries.

Also, they could possibly be used for short extensions which were not deemed viable for the expense of putting in overhead wire.

[tazzer9]

The problem with toowoomba regional rail is that is should have been done 20 years ago with realignment, full duplication and electrification.   This is now no longer practical due to inland rail.
The biggest problem with DMU's or battery hybrid to toowoomba is the range (as in great dividing range) and I don't think anything that isn't fully electric would be able to get sufficient speed and acceleration up the range for it to be time competitive.  And the towns before toowoomba aren't large enough IMO to warrant regional rail on there own. 

IMO, they should get some gains by increasing the speed limit between karrabin and rosewood to at least 120 for electric trains. (doable for most of it)

[Stillwater]

Regular trains to Helidon once -- could do again.  The politics of the state election may play out here ... with parties committing to 'regional rapid rail' in order to win the hearts and minds of voters at Lockyer, Beaudesert, Gympie etc.  Mind you, voters are not that gullible and would need to see how this will be funded.  And then there is the question of drivers and availability of train sets.  Could we see a special regional rail fleet?  lol

[SurfRail]

Needs to be to Toowoomba and on the new alignment - otherwise not worth doing.  There's nothing at Helidon justifying passenger rail and it's not a desirable place to develop for a number of reasons.  Gatton and Laidley only merit stations en route to Toowoomba.  The bus to Roma St is faster and more comfortable than a plodding EMU.

[verbatim9]

Just looking at the technology available the speed of the train to make it viable and the power needed to be drawn required to maintain the speed. Catenary is likely for the entire route as well as two tracks with passing loops. Plus track upgrades from Ipswich to Darra. Agree with Surfrail that Gatton, Laidley be better stops enroute. Twin dual guage track with catenary can be built on the same route as inland rail to save costs. The tracks can be shared with inland rail and services every 90mins from 5am-midnight 7 days. I guess a new tunnel would need to be built for services to terminate at Toowoomba. Eventually a few LRT lines can be built in and around Toowoomba and out to the Uni and Wellcamp Airport with a interchange at Toowoomba Station.

^^Wonder if this can be done and operational by 2030-2032?

[Stillwater]

Was in Sydney recently and was able to catch regular schedule service from Lithgow to Central - a distance of about 140km.  Good patronage too from Blue Mountains stations.

[Cazza]

Was in Sydney recently and was able to catch regular schedule service from Lithgow to Central - a distance of about 140km.  Good patronage too from Blue Mountains stations.

Apart from the trains themselves (V sets in particular), the inter city services are actually very good. Trains every 30 mins from Newcastle to Central (on average).

[tazzer9]

Was in Sydney recently and was able to catch regular schedule service from Lithgow to Central - a distance of about 140km.  Good patronage too from Blue Mountains stations.

The most crowded train i have ever been on was a weekend 4 car blue mountains service.  I believe the one I caught is now an 8 car service.     I was also a regular on the 7:27am 3 car ferny grove train to put it into perspective. 

[OzGamer]

Twin dual guage track with catenary can be built on the same route as inland rail to save costs.

Absolutely agree that using the Inland Rail track to Toowoomba makes sense, but my understanding was that QR overhead could not be put there as it would preclude double-stacking of containers. This is why I am interested in overhead/battery hybrid trains. If the trains turned off the Inland Rail track at Grandchester and came in on the existing track to Toowoomba station then overhead could potentially be placed there to recharge the batteries for the return run.

[verbatim9]

^^Double stack with catenary is possible. It's done in Europe

[SurfRail]

It's not happening because nobody is going to change to an electric loco just for the Toowoomba to Brisbane leg, and the volume does not justify it for passengers.

[verbatim9]

^^It might need to be done to meet the State Government emission target. Only Airlines and long distance freight will be able to use Fossil burning fuels. The other states are doing the same. The line can be driver only operation the same as NSW Central coast and Lithgow lines that will go Driver only.

[SurfRail]

Most of our emissions reductions will come from off-sets.  There is absolutely no suggestion anybody is going to be banning diesel any time soon.

[OzGamer]

As Surf says, there is no justification for the overhead as it would only be for the passenger services, which would in themselves only be added if they could be done so very cheaply. My suggestion for battery range extenders on the trains was to enable electric operation for them. The Auckland purchase is interesting because it will be a test case for how they go.

A single seat journey by electric train from Toowoomba-Gatton-Laidley-Rosewood-Ipswich-Darra-City might be possible with virtually no extra fixed infrastructure cost if Inland Rail goes ahead. This has got to be interesting, surely.

[verbatim9]

Most of our emissions reductions will come from off-sets.  There is absolutely no suggestion anybody is going to be banning diesel any time soon.

^^The current State Labor Environment Minister seems to suggest otherwise.

[SurfRail]

Mainline electrification is certainly technically feasible.  What it most likely is not is economically feasible - not for a single route to Melbourne.  You also have to have locos that can handle 1500V DC once they get to Craigieburn or wherever Victorian electrification ultimately ends up, or otherwise drive up costs further by mandating another swapover.

Over time the economic case for electrification might become more viable, but keep in mind they haven't even fully electrified the Blackwater coal system with trains much more frequent than the Inland Rail link will have - nor the North Goonyella to Newlands and beyond line, nor the Moura line, nor the Hunter coal lines, all busier again by train frequency and tonnage.

[verbatim9]

As Surf says, there is no justification for the overhead as it would only be for the passenger services, which would in themselves only be added if they could be done so very cheaply. My suggestion for battery range extenders on the trains was to enable electric operation for them. The Auckland purchase is interesting because it will be a test case for how they go.

A single seat journey by electric train from Toowoomba-Gatton-Laidley-Rosewood-Ipswich-Darra-City might be possible with virtually no extra fixed infrastructure cost if Inland Rail goes ahead. This has got to be interesting, surely.

^^Yes aware of that project but the distance isn't 100km.  Maybe it can be done with Catenary from Toowoomba for 50-60km then a gap then rejoin the Catenary at Helidon? Plus the train would need to travel at 140kph-150kph to make it worthwhile. It may draw too much power just to run on batteries.

In theory by not supporting full time electric rail to Toowoomba. People are then indirectly supporting upgrades to the Warrego Hwy lane adding interchanges etc....100's of Millions billions in road works. "Guess electric buses will run on the  Gold plated Warrego Hwy in the future"