Regional Fast Rail discussion

[verbatim9]

The Etts are already capable of running at 200kph. And that's mid 90's tech. If the sunny coast wants higher tech trains running NWTC + CRR needs to be built first.

CRR is getting built. Regional Rapid/Fast Rail is a Federal Government initiative. Most likely Gold Coast line will be improved in conjunction with CRR as well as duplication of the Sunshine coast line and then Toowoomba there after mid to late 2020s. Electric trains at 160-180kph is ample. New tilts are not required on the Toowoomba line especially if they are spending money to realign the track. NGR and new chosen electric rail stock should be ample. The aim would be to pick up and drop passengers at Indooroopilly, Darra, Redbank, Ipswich, Rosewood Gatton and Helidon. This will ensure viability of services as well as providing an express service for Rosewood, Ipswich commuters every 60-90mins.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yo, Queensland Rail electric tilt holds the Oz rail speed record at 210 km/h 1999 ( some rumours might have even been a bit quicker than the official 210 km/h  )

It actually could have gone faster but they didn't want to push it.... too much

The Etts are already capable of running at 200kph. And that's mid 90's tech. If the sunny coast wants higher tech trains running NWTC + CRR needs to be built first.

CRR is getting built. Regional Rapid/Fast Rail is a Federal Government initiative. Most likely Gold Coast line will be improved in conjunction with CRR as well as duplication of the Sunshine coast line and then Toowoomba there after mid to late 2020s. Electric trains at 160-180kph is ample. New tilts are not required on the Toowoomba line especially if they are spending money to realign the track. NGR and new chosen electric rail stock should be ample. The aim would be to pick up and drop passengers at Indooroopilly, Darra, Redbank, Ipswich, Rosewood Gatton and Helidon. This will ensure viability of services as well as providing an express service for Rosewood, Ipswich commuters every 60-90mins.

The idea might be federal but lets be realistic. If anything rapid regional or whatever its going to be narrow gauge and it has to fit within our network constraints. CRR might be getting built but how is it getting built with future lines in mind. Rollingstock is not going to change. But stopping patterns will. The thing to remember is that Gold Coast trains were originally doing Helensvale-Roma Street in 60 minutes and they were express Beenleigh-South Brisbane. If they are to go via Northgate express they need to run them as 9 car trains otherwise the capacity just isn't there for frequency. Toowoomba. Not going to happen. Freight is ramping up and there are already limited slots out to Toowoomba.

[verbatim9]

Yo, Queensland Rail electric tilt holds the Oz rail speed record at 210 km/h 1999 ( some rumours might have even been a bit quicker than the official 210 km/h  )

It actually could have gone faster but they didn't want to push it.... too much

The Etts are already capable of running at 200kph. And that's mid 90's tech. If the sunny coast wants higher tech trains running NWTC + CRR needs to be built first.

CRR is getting built. Regional Rapid/Fast Rail is a Federal Government initiative. Most likely Gold Coast line will be improved in conjunction with CRR as well as duplication of the Sunshine coast line and then Toowoomba there after mid to late 2020s. Electric trains at 160-180kph is ample. New tilts are not required on the Toowoomba line especially if they are spending money to realign the track. NGR and new chosen electric rail stock should be ample. The aim would be to pick up and drop passengers at Indooroopilly, Darra, Redbank, Ipswich, Rosewood Gatton and Helidon. This will ensure viability of services as well as providing an express service for Rosewood, Ipswich commuters every 60-90mins.

The idea might be federal but lets be realistic. If anything rapid regional or whatever its going to be narrow gauge and it has to fit within our network constraints. CRR might be getting built but how is it getting built with future lines in mind. Rollingstock is not going to change. But stopping patterns will. The thing to remember is that Gold Coast trains were originally doing Helensvale-Roma Street in 60 minutes and they were express Beenleigh-South Brisbane. If they are to go via Northgate express they need to run them as 9 car trains otherwise the capacity just isn't there for frequency. Toowoomba. Not going to happen. Freight is ramping up and there are already limited slots out to Toowoomba.

^^You better email the Toowoomba Mayor about the Toowoomba line. No point wasting tax payer funds in a business case then.

[HappyTrainGuy]

And how many business cases have been done for camcos/Nikolin Way since 1992. They can do as many business cases as they like but in reality. They have to look like they are doing something when they aren't doing anything at all. Freight is ramping up with Watco and their GrainCorp contract to Fishermans Island expected to be underway by the end of the year. Coal export is expanding. Slow alignment/difficult to realign without massive costs. Toowoomba Council won't fund a railway line. State won't fund a new line. Feds won't fund a new line. Then you have inland rail (god knows how many studies that has had since 2004ish) which is a freight line with those trains speed limited, signaling limited and passing loop limited (the majority of the line will be single track). Public and private passenger trains will have access to it but for a fast frequent passenger service its not ideal. And usually in the past ARTC has required the state government to chip in cash for passenger upgrades as has been the case in NSW/Victoria a few times.

[verbatim9]

Olympic Bid will fast track faster electric rail for Se Qld

Couriermail------------->https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/fast-rail-network-for-the-olympics-would-be-great-legacy-for-seq/news-story/2f918280f065672ba9c7aa0ed97a818d

Fast rail network for the Olympics would be great legacy for SEQ

Our Olympics bid could be a catalyst for a fast rail network in southeast Queensland that would leave a terrific legacy, writes Scott Smith

Scott Smith, The Courier-Mail


June 18, 2019 5:32pm


Olympics boss meets Qld mayors on 2032 bid

Supplied video obtained Tuesday, May 7, 2019 of IOC President Thomas Bach and AOC President Joh...


A FAST rail network that could slash travel times between southeast Queensland's major cities to under 45 minutes, and encourage commuters to leave their cars behind, would not only transform the region but unlock the potential of an Olympic Games.

What started as a concept from the SEQ Council of Mayors to use the Olympic Games as a catalyst for transport infrastructure delivery has gained speed, with the belief and momentum that southeast Queensland can host the Games now full steam ahead.

Best chance to get 45-min super fast SEQ train

While the excitement around an Olympic Games is amazing, we can't let the hype of a Games detract from what we need for a successful future for southeast Queensland and the state as a whole.

Southeast Queensland, home to more than 70 per cent of the state's population, is growing faster than the rate at which transport infrastructure is being delivered. This is a threat to the liveability our residents enjoy, but also to the state of the Queensland economy.

Connectivity is the lifeblood of southeast Queensland, playing an essential role in moving commuters, freight and tourists around our region. It's also an essential part of our ability to successfully bid for and host the 2032 Olympic Games.

The super-fast rail plan for southeast Queensland. Picture: Courier Mail

While the mayors started this journey towards a potential southeast Queensland Games, it's not about a Games at any cost. An Olympic Games can only come when southeast Queensland has established an efficient and reliable transport network that meets the needs of our growing region.

It's not all bad news though. The puzzle pieces are already there – we just need to ensure we put them together in the right order. We have robust planning and a strong vision for southeast Queensland's future, we're negotiating what will be Australia's largest City Deal to deliver on this vision, and an Olympic Games can act as the firm deadline we need to ensure planning turns into action.

Congestionn on the M1. Picture: David Clark

With the International Olympic Committee now boosting its financial contribution to a 2032 Games to make hosting an affordable proposition, our governments won't find a stronger incentive to deliver the transport the southeast desperately needs. In doing so, it will unlock social, economic and tourism benefits that are needed not just in southeast Queensland but across the state. A cost effective Olympic Games will ensure all Queenslanders can reap the benefits of this big idea.

From the tourism industry, we know a southeast Queensland fast rail network is tipped to boost visitor numbers and spending to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. The Sydney 2000 Games generated more than $6 billion of international publicity and exposure for New South Wales, and attracted an extra 1.6 million visitors to Australia in 2001 alone.

Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner (left) briefs International Olympic Committee (IOC) president Thomas Bach outside the City Hall after a press conference in Brisbane on May 6, 2019. Picture: Patrick Hamilton/AFP

For a state that thrives on tourism, it's time to consider whether "business as usual" is still working or whether we need some bold thinking (and doing) to get Queensland moving again.

We too are excited about the energy and enthusiasm from industry and the community for a southeast Queensland Olympic Games, but we need to ensure we're doing this for the right reasons. An Olympic Games should leave Queensland a better and stronger place than it was before, and a big part of this is leaving a long-lasting legacy of transport, tourism and economic growth for all.

Scott Smith is the CEO of the Council of Mayors (SEQ)

[SteelPan]

For general info....

[verbatim9]

For general info....

^^Nice! Maybe Virgin can run the fast trains here? Or DB? I liked the the lounges as well. TGIF! Beer and Wine before you head off We deserve nice things in Qld.

[#Metro]

Verbatim9, DB operate the Canberra light rail.

[verbatim9]

Verbatim9, DB operate the Canberra light rail.

Yeah! They are a good operator DB already run fast rail in Europe they know what they are doing. Not saying that QR are bad, but they just go with the status quo.

[ozbob]

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Future Gold Coast: Fast-rail work to begin in late 2020s after Cross-River rail

FAST rail slashing the 74-minute trip between the Gold Coast and Brisbane to 32 minutes won't be a reality until at least the late 2020s.

A high-speed train network championed by the Federal Government in the lead up to this year's election would go up to 160km/h compared to an existing average of 69km/h.

But the project — more than halving the trip time — itself is on the go-slow.

Only preliminary negotiations have begun on an $8 million business case study and State Transport Minister Mark Bailey says serious talks about the system will not begin until other rail projects, including the Cross-River Rail are completed in 2024.

From there, talks on fast rail planning and funding plus construction would take several years after that, the Bulletin understands.

"Southeast Queensland is one of the fastest growing parts of Australia so of course we support fast rail being investigated," he said.

"(But) there are a series of major rail projects that need to be completed before any serious conversation about fast heavy rail between the Gold Coast and Brisbane can be considered."

Prime Minister Scott Morrison made an election pledge for a business case for a new fast rail line between the Coast and the state's capital with an extension to Gold Coast Airport.

But Mr Bailey said significant amounts of infrastructure were required first including:

* Expansion of the existing track configuration on the Gold Coast railway line between Kuraby and Beenleigh;

* Funding for a new passenger line between Salisbury and Beaudesert to connect communities to the inland rail.

"We are in discussions with the Morrison Government about these projects, including fast rail, but fast rail is expensive, so the Morrison Government must be ready to fund it appropriately," Mr Bailey said

McPherson MP and Federal Minister Karen Andrews said the project was a priority for the city to reduce congestion.

"The Federal Government is in proactive discussions with Queensland concerning the time frame for the business plan," she said.

"We need to look at the capacity of the current rail lines, along with what the impacts are going to be."

This business case will look at feasibility as well as practicalities such as timeline of delivery and how it would incorporate with the existing railway network and Cross River Rail.

The Gold Coast-Brisbane congestion-buster was among five national pre-election fast rail business cases aimed at boosting capital city connections to regional centres.

[ozbob]

So much in every day infrastructure deficit, it is difficult to see where the many billions of the folding stuff is going to come from for the ' fast rail ' dream ...

Queensland is struggling to do the basics ... let alone the dreams ....

It cannot even manage to the run the 531 bus 7 days a week and at a frequency that is really useful, or upgrade the critical Sunshine Coast line north of Beerburrum.  It is all fantasy I am afraid.

" ... This business case will look at feasibility as well as practicalities such as timeline of delivery and how it would incorporate with the existing railway network and Cross River Rail. ... " 

Well the lack of real future proofing with regard to CRR and opportunities for future fast rail sort of kill that off.  We have tried .. 

[Stillwater]

To mix metaphors, this is a car with two steering wheels ... with Scott Morrison with his hands on one and Minister Bailey with his hands on the other. There is only one brake, and that is on Mr Bailey's side.  What's being played out is a game of political shadow boxing -- Mr Morrison and the LNP wanting to get some electoral kudos from a Regional Fast Rail Business Case and Mr Bailey wanting to make it a dead issue, with no political gain for the federal Coalition. Mr Bailey also seems to have found the track down to the Tweed, worn by Jackie Trad, where she stands facing Canberra and shouts SHOW US THE MONEY.

The push-me-pull-you political debate in Queensland contrasts with a calmer, more finessed way of doing things down South, where states see the political advantage and have adaptive tactics to extract maximum dollars from Canberra. Bailey/Trad argue 'do it our way or not at all'. Invariably, that means not at all.

As we have seen with CRR, no business case, or a dodgy business case, means no way forward and no funding from the feds. Frustrating political tactics, as opposed to effective cooperation among levels of government, bit Labor in the recent federal election. You would have thought that State Labor would have learned the lesson. Perhaps it will at the state election next year.

[ozbob]

The other mainland states are getting some good support from the Feds for rail.  WA, Metronet another 72km of first rate suburban railway.  SA - electrification of Gawler line.  Victoria has even convinced the Feds to tip in big for the  MEL Airport rail, something achieved here without public funding.  You are right Mr Stillwater, the Queensland mob have as much finesse as Bulldog Brower (wrestling crazy years ago ... )



The bulldog in one of his quieter moments ... 

As a nipper my old mate Gary and I used to go to the wrestling at Festival Hall in Melbourne for a laugh.  One night we encountered the Bulldog out in the street.  Gary yelled out " how you going Bulldog".  He turned and started to chase us up Rosslyn street. He was frothing at the mouth, lucky we could out run him ... 

[timh]

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Future Gold Coast: Fast-rail work to begin in late 2020s after Cross-River rail

;

* Funding for a new passenger line between Salisbury and Beaudesert to connect communities to the inland rail..

As maddening as this was to read, it's the second time in recent weeks I've seen mention of the Beaudesert rail line being brought up in relation to the Inland Rail development. Previously the state government has said that the Beaudesert line wouldn't get built til much later, but this implies it would be built before 2030. Again it feels like the locals are pushing to have the passenger line built at the same time as the new freight line as compensation. Just a hunch...



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Gazza]

I don't see why you'd bother with any further track amplification.
If you wanted to do fast rail, then just run it elevated along the M1 from Beenleigh to Springwood, stopping only at Hyperdome. At springwood the line interchanges with the future busway/metro extension, so therefore, no further stops are needed till Boggo Rd.
It's never really been discussed on here, but north of Mt Gravatt, you could actually fit the rail down the M3 median.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.5087248,153.0386354,3a,54.6y,156.56h,87.79t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1seRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.33522%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

[verbatim9]

I don't see why you'd bother with any further track amplification.
If you wanted to do fast rail, then just run it elevated along the M1 from Beenleigh to Springwood, stopping only at Hyperdome. At springwood the line interchanges with the future busway/metro extension, so therefore, no further stops are needed till Boggo Rd.
It's never really been discussed on here, but north of Mt Gravatt, you could actually fit the rail down the M3 median.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.5087248,153.0386354,3a,54.6y,156.56h,87.79t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1seRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.33522%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

In the ABC video special they have done up a simulation of a new train line running along parts of the second freeway.
Many would agree that the current alignment is not suitable for 200kph trains. Ozbob has been quoted on the radio waves stating that a new alignment is necessary from Dutton Park to Beenleigh to speed up travel times. I wonder if the Federal or State Government has drawn up a non released plan on this already?

[ozbob]

I have always had this plan in my head that the most probable way regional fast rail could get up is the CRR is the key centre piece.  At the northern portal or perhaps before tunnel to NWTC, new rail up to the northern line at Straphine.  The Gold Coast the line south of Beenleigh is fine, it is the section from around Boggo Road/ Dutton Park to south of Beenleigh that needs to be new, straight and fast.  I have thought a tunnel from the southern end of CRR to sky rail long the road corridors would be the go and join the existing line south of Beenleigh. 

The alternate is a completely separate standard gauge system which would be have to be mainly tunnels around Brisbane and then elevation to join the respective rail corridors.  Put the standard gauge next to the 3 '6 rail corridors essentially north of Strathpine and south of Beenleigh.  This would be very expensive as a lot more works and completely separate rollingstock and support for the same.

It will be interesting to learn what the North Coast Connect business case proposes.  This should be out soon.

It is going to very expensive no matter what though. So I reckon they will probably stick to the 3' 6".  200 km/h running is possible.

[timh]

 

I don't see why you'd bother with any further track amplification.
If you wanted to do fast rail, then just run it elevated along the M1 from Beenleigh to Springwood, stopping only at Hyperdome. At springwood the line interchanges with the future busway/metro extension, so therefore, no further stops are needed till Boggo Rd.
It's never really been discussed on here, but north of Mt Gravatt, you could actually fit the rail down the M3 median.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.5087248,153.0386354,3a,54.6y,156.56h,87.79t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1seRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.33522%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

In the ABC video special they have done up a simulation of a new train line running along parts of the second freeway.
Many would agree that the current alignment is not suitable for 200kph trains. Ozbob has been quoted on the radio waves stating that a new alignment is necessary from Dutton Park to Beenleigh to speed up travel times. I wonder if the Federal or State Government has drawn up a non released plan on this already?

I noticed that 3D Render too, never seen it before. So you're saying you think it's a unreleased government render for a second rail line following the Coomera Connector? Not a bad idea, but it doesn't help the section from Dutton Park - Beenleigh as Bob said. I'm all for new rail lines though if they want to build it  :conf

[AnonymouslyBad]

As maddening as this was to read, it's the second time in recent weeks I've seen mention of the Beaudesert rail line being brought up in relation to the Inland Rail development. Previously the state government has said that the Beaudesert line wouldn't get built til much later, but this implies it would be built before 2030. Again it feels like the locals are pushing to have the passenger line built at the same time as the new freight line as compensation. Just a hunch...

It makes sense. I'm not sure why the default assumption is that a passenger train will never be allowed to run on Inland Rail. It may be getting built primarily as a freight corridor, but most rail lines were built primarily as a freight corridor.

We can be sensible and build enough capacity for both types of traffic now. Or we can build segregated freight tracks, run them nowhere near capacity, come back in 5-10 years and build passenger tracks right next to them. Why? It's not like Salisbury to Beaudesert is going to be some fancy conflict-free metro line, it's bog standard suburban branch fare.

Let's not even start on Toowoomba: a new range crossing just for an hourly high speed train is pure foam (special government foam!). Those trains end up on Inland Rail tracks or they don't ever run at all. I'm not silly enough to expect the feds to think that far ahead, though

[timh]

As maddening as this was to read, it's the second time in recent weeks I've seen mention of the Beaudesert rail line being brought up in relation to the Inland Rail development. Previously the state government has said that the Beaudesert line wouldn't get built til much later, but this implies it would be built before 2030. Again it feels like the locals are pushing to have the passenger line built at the same time as the new freight line as compensation. Just a hunch...

It makes sense. I'm not sure why the default assumption is that a passenger train will never be allowed to run on Inland Rail. It may be getting built primarily as a freight corridor, but most rail lines were built primarily as a freight corridor.

We can be sensible and build enough capacity for both types of traffic now. Or we can build segregated freight tracks, run them nowhere near capacity, come back in 5-10 years and build passenger tracks right next to them. Why? It's not like Salisbury to Beaudesert is going to be some fancy conflict-free metro line, it's bog standard suburban branch fare.

Let's not even start on Toowoomba: a new range crossing just for an hourly high speed train is pure foam (special government foam!). Those trains end up on Inland Rail tracks or they don't ever run at all. I'm not silly enough to expect the feds to think that far ahead, though

The TMR website actually says they intend this corridor to be quad tracked: 2 freight tracks and 2 passenger tracks:

The future corridor may include:

2 electrified narrow gauge passenger tracks from Salisbury to Beaudesert
2 dual gauge freight tracks between Acacia Ridge and Kagaru, optimising the re-use of the existing interstate track
allowance for a shared pedestrian and cycle track along much of the corridor, as identified within the South East Queensland Principal Cycle Network.
11 stations with associated facilities and car parks
maintenance access roads and stabling facilities at Greenbank, Flagstone and Gleneagle North.

Source: https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/S/Salisbury-to-Beaudesert-Rail-Corridor-Study

I don't see why you'd bother with any further track amplification.
If you wanted to do fast rail, then just run it elevated along the M1 from Beenleigh to Springwood, stopping only at Hyperdome. At springwood the line interchanges with the future busway/metro extension, so therefore, no further stops are needed till Boggo Rd.
It's never really been discussed on here, but north of Mt Gravatt, you could actually fit the rail down the M3 median.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.5087248,153.0386354,3a,54.6y,156.56h,87.79t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1seRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeRekm0Z8RIlnqsna7x6R4A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.33522%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

In the ABC video special they have done up a simulation of a new train line running along parts of the second freeway.
Many would agree that the current alignment is not suitable for 200kph trains. Ozbob has been quoted on the radio waves stating that a new alignment is necessary from Dutton Park to Beenleigh to speed up travel times. I wonder if the Federal or State Government has drawn up a non released plan on this already?

I noticed that 3D Render too, never seen it before. So you're saying you think it's a unreleased government render for a second rail line following the Coomera Connector? Not a bad idea, but it doesn't help the section from Dutton Park - Beenleigh as Bob said. I'm all for new rail lines though if they want to build it  :conf

@Verbatim9, just found found this:



So it looks like they are actually officially considering a rail corridor as part of the Coomera Connector. No concrete word if it's actually going to happen, and again it's kinda redundant as the existing alignment for the Gold Coast Line is fine from Beenleigh - Varsity Lakes (Beenleigh to Kuraby is the real problem). But as I said before if they wanna build a new rail line to service those suburbs then why not quite frankly.

[#Metro]

So it looks like they are actually officially considering a rail corridor as part of the Coomera Connector. No concrete word if it's actually going to happen, and again it's kinda redundant as the existing alignment for the Gold Coast Line is fine from Beenleigh - Varsity Lakes (Beenleigh to Kuraby is the real problem). But as I said before if they wanna build a new rail line to service those suburbs then why not quite frankly.

It could be a green gimmick - put it in the concept plans and then cancel it.

Remember "2000 express buses down legacy way".

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

[timh]

So it looks like they are actually officially considering a rail corridor as part of the Coomera Connector. No concrete word if it's actually going to happen, and again it's kinda redundant as the existing alignment for the Gold Coast Line is fine from Beenleigh - Varsity Lakes (Beenleigh to Kuraby is the real problem). But as I said before if they wanna build a new rail line to service those suburbs then why not quite frankly.

It could be a green gimmick - put it in the concept plans and then cancel it.

Remember "2000 express buses down legacy way".

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

Yeah that was my first thought, however I think it's even less interesting.

Just had another look at the preferred alignment of the Coomera Connector: https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Projects/C/Coomera-Connector/aerial-alignment-map-0319.pdf?la=en

The alignment for the Coomera Connector follows the corridor for the existing rail line from Coomera to Nerang. Only north of Coomera does it branch off to the east. The renders are probably just showing the existing rail line, mainly because when it goes north of Coomera it basically branches off into a whole lot of nothing going through Stapylton etc. A bit pointless to run a new rail line through there unless there are some new developments going in there I don't know about.

So I doubt we're gonna get a shiny new rail line in this case

[verbatim9]

^^We can always live in hope Bne-Gold Coast, Bne-Landsborough, Bne-Toowoomba #Fast electric rail @ 180kph or faster.

[Fares_Fair]

It all depends upon funding..  lots of ambitious goals mean nothing without it - as we full well know on the Sunshine Coast.

[verbatim9]

LNP were quoted in Townsville that their intention is to bring full competition to the electricity market. No doubt the Electricity generators will be spun off. Some cash in the bank and further red tape reduction and deregulation elsewhere in the over structured Qld economy, will bring in a war chest of funds.

[Stillwater]

Expect a lot of these concepts to be released prior to a state government election next year.

[#Metro]

In NSW, the power grid was converted into a mixed ownership company called Ausgrid. Just under half of these shares are NSW govt owned. The other half is - and here is where it gets interesting - is owned by a coalition of super funds.

There is money there if you want it.

[verbatim9]

BuildSydney.com-----> High-Speed Rail Plan (Routes, Speed & Journey Times)

NSW High-Speed Rail Plan (Routes, Speed & Journey Times)

DEJAN MLADENOVSKI OCTOBER 14, 2019

NSW High Speed Rail Potential Route - Source: NSW Government

The NSW Government has progressed in making a high-speed rail system a reality with there vision being announced where we may see a ~200km/h rail service initially launched with a >250km/h high-speed VFT train service launched in the long term which will begin in the Sydney region where it will then go to the biggest regional centre's across the state and even to the ACT.

The vision has outlined several major stops for the service which will begin in Sydney, here is a breakdown of each proposed route

If undertaken, this project will change the entire economic and spatial landscape of the New South Wales state. It will give people a chance to live in true lifestyle locations whilst still being able to commute to a inner-city occupation. It can also give businesses a chance to setup in various locations or relocate their head offices as these centre's become a lot more accessible

Here are some amazing stats on the rail vision for NSW:

As you can see by the above table, journey times are the biggest benefit of this massive infrastructure vision. Here is a outline of the potential journey times if the development were to go ahead as stated on the NSW Government's official website, here is a breakdown of what could be on the horizen:

Sydney to Gosford1 Hour 19 Minutes30 MinutesSydney to Wollongong1 Hour 25 Minutes30 MinutesSydney to Goulburn2 Hours 31 Minutes30 MinutesSydney to Newcastle2 Hours 35 Minutes45 MinutesSydney to Nowra2 Hours 39 Minutes45 MinutesSydney to Canberra4 Hours 7 Minutes1 Hour

Whilst NSW Fast Rail project is set the completely change the landscape of the state, there are more important prioritised rail projects according to the government has recently announced via SMH that the Sydney Metro West & Sydney Metro Greater West are currently more vital transport projects in New South Wales at the present time of writing & have priority to be fast tracked.

NSW Fast Rail Rolling Stock Render – Source: NSW Government

Whilst the first step would be to simply optimise the current rail which is in place now, where the longer term vision is to design and create a completely new set of tracks with new rolling stock.

NSW High Speed Rail FAQs

Has the NSW High-Speed Train Project been Confirmed?

No, it is still currently a vision of the NSW Government as of October 2019

Will there be more stations or destinations added along the key routes?

It is unclear whether there will be further routes or cities added to the network at this stage

What will be the top speed of New High-Speed Trains?

It is expected in the short term that the trains will reach a top speed of 250km/h

What impact will the Fast Trains have on Journey Times?

In the long term, the very fast high speed rail in NSW reaching over 250km/h may cut journey times up to 75%

This is an excising time for the residents of both the Sydney region and regional NSW, we will keep you updated here at Build Sydney on the progress of this transport vision.

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Fast rail funding options set to be explored

AN INQUIRY seeking the best options to finance faster rail has kicked off in Canberra.

The House of Representatives Standing Committee on Infrastructure, Transport and Cities chairman and MP John Alexander announced the inquiry had launched into options for financing fast rail.

"Fast rail connections between our capital cities and regional centres will strengthen economic and social ties and connect people to housing, jobs and services," Mr Alexander said.

As well as providing funding for the Geelong to Melbourne fast rail, the Federal Government had identified a number of other fast rail corridors in its Faster Rail Plan which included Brisbane to Sunshine Coast.

Mr Alexander said work was currently under way to assess the viability, and requirements, and the government had funded a number of business cases, including the Brisbane to Sunshine Coast.

The inquiry's terms of reference were options for financing faster rail, and submissions were being sought by December 6.

Fairfax MP Ted O'Brien, who was a member of the committee and had led the charge for the North Coast Connect Brisbane to Sunshine Coast fast rail, said the business case was nearly complete.

"Big bold ideas don't just happen, they have to be well planned and they have to be fought for," he said.

"I don't believe there's any opportunity more worthy of fighting for than a fast rail link between the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane, but it's going to take more than just strong advocacy — it'll also take a lot of money.

"When you do the economics for large projects like rail, it's about far more than the price tag for construction, it's also about the commercial structure and smart financing.

"There's no shortage of unfunded good ideas out there, and this is why we need to understand best practice."

[ozbob]

National Faster Rail Agency

https://www.nfra.gov.au/

Projects >> https://www.nfra.gov.au/projects

[#Metro]

I think it would be good to have a map with stations and a logo for R1 and Regional Rapid Rail in general.

Remember. The more stations, the slower the service will be. Mixing very fast trains with all stops services will eat track capacity.

[Gazza]

I think the number of stations depends a bit on how far south the Metro/busway reaches.

-If its the current plan to Springwood, then you'd need Springwood to permit interchange, and then Hyperdome to permit proper access and bus connections, and to allow Perth style rationalisation of the bus system in that part of Brisbane.

-If the busway was extended to Hyperdome, then The only station you would theoretically need would be Hyperdome, and then for all other destinations along the M1 you would interchange and head north. I don't think this is the right solution though, because you are spending hundreds of millions on further extension of the busway to avoid a station at Springwood and to save some time for the train...And people headed for hyper dome will probably want to use the train anyway!

-In terms of  other additional stations, Garden City is an obvious one the public would cry out for, but I don't see that much of a benefit because although it will offer a faster trip into town than the metro, this would be offset by the lower frequency (Likely every 15 mins). A garden city stop would be primarily to benefit people from the south who work there or are heading to Griffith.

-Finally a stop at Slacks Creek is one other potential addition and  would be 3km from Hyperdome and 4km from Springwood, and would provide better access for Daisy Hill, but Im not that enthused about it really.

[SurfRail]

I would want to see 8tph in the off-peak on this line, so I'm not fazed about it being less frequent than the Metro at Garden City.  4tph Gold Coast, 4tph intermediate terminators at Loganholme with stabling constructed somewhere to the south where there is open land.

[timh]

I think the number of stations depends a bit on how far south the Metro/busway reaches.

-If its the current plan to Springwood, then you'd need Springwood to permit interchange, and then Hyperdome to permit proper access and bus connections, and to allow Perth style rationalisation of the bus system in that part of Brisbane.

-If the busway was extended to Hyperdome, then The only station you would theoretically need would be Hyperdome, and then for all other destinations along the M1 you would interchange and head north. I don't think this is the right solution though, because you are spending hundreds of millions on further extension of the busway to avoid a station at Springwood and to save some time for the train...And people headed for hyper dome will probably want to use the train anyway!

-In terms of  other additional stations, Garden City is an obvious one the public would cry out for, but I don't see that much of a benefit because although it will offer a faster trip into town than the metro, this would be offset by the lower frequency (Likely every 15 mins). A garden city stop would be primarily to benefit people from the south who work there or are heading to Griffith.

-Finally a stop at Slacks Creek is one other potential addition and  would be 3km from Hyperdome and 4km from Springwood, and would provide better access for Daisy Hill, but Im not that enthused about it really.

I'd be happy with station at Hyperdome and Springwood if busway to Hyperdome isn't built. This still provides a HF corridor from Hyperdome which I think should be a priority going forward. Also agree with Slacks Creek station as there is already a major park and ride there.

You're basically mirroring my sentiments that I wouldn't want a redundant HF corridor being built. GC station would make sense from an interchange point of view but yes is somewhat redundant.

[Gazza]

Slacks Creek I feel wouldn't be great on balance though because it's only got a couple of hundred spaces so would be dead after 8am.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Elevated fast rail along M1 has 'merit': transport minister

Rail planners have been urged to think more strategically about fast train technology and the protection of potential south-east Queensland transport corridors from developers.

The Queensland government last week confirmed it was backing the eight-lane Coomera Connection as a secondary M1 route to the Gold Coast, but public transport lobby group Rail Back on Track's spokesman, Robert Dow, said planners should not automatically jump to adding more lanes to the region's highways.

"What we are trying to highlight is that we need to get very serious at this point about our fast train options, not only on the Gold Coast but on the Sunshine Coast as well," he said.

Rail Back on Track has put forward a futuristic idea to build a 160km/h elevated rail line along a section of the M1 between Beenleigh and the Cross River Rail at Dutton Park "to stimulate debate, not necessarily roads".

Under the plan, a tunnel would need to go under Toohey Forest to connect to the M1 corridor.

"Basically, our idea is an elevated rail – with limited tunnels – beside the M1, with stations at Mt Gravatt, Springwood and the Hyperdome, where it could connect with the bus network," Mr Dow said.

Rail Back on Track views the Gold Coast line as two sections: the slower Beenleigh line and the recently updated section from Helensvale to Southport (Gold Coast line), where trains can run up to 130km/h.

The line between Beenleigh and Dutton Park is limited to 50km/h, carries 20,000 passengers  combined in the morning and afternoon peaks, and is already the subject of Queensland government and Infrastructure Australia scrutiny.

"Failure to address these capacity constraints is likely to lead to more potential rail users choosing to use the already congested M1 Motorway instead," the Infrastructure Australia report says.

Mr Dow said he understood Rail Back on Track's idea would be expensive, but thought it would be cost-effective when compared to an eight-lane highway.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said Queensland Transport was already using the M1 transport corridor for the South East Busway and cycle routes.

"We're already putting it to good use, and I agree exploring new ways to add more connections between different transport modes along the M1 –  if it is viable – has some merit."

Mr Bailey said the main priority was completing Brisbane's underground Cross River Rail, but agreed the track configuration of Kuraby to Beenleigh was inadequate for express trains.

"Fast rail is expensive, so the Morrison federal government must be ready to significantly contribute to it if it is to happen," he said.

Griffith University Cities Research Institute director Matthew Burke said the idea was interesting, but the bigger picture was the urgent need to protect future transport corridors.

"Unless we take the brave decision to declare that, or a similar corridor, I fear we'll have developers build on it and we'll lose the opportunity to put in rail cheaply," he said.

Professor Burke said the next issue for transport planners was future rail fleets to suit short hops on congested inner-city rail lines.

"In decades to come there may be opportunities to run quite different train-sets on the inner-city lines, compared to the longer-distance services," he said.

Infrastructure Australia is already looking at steps to remove the need to stop at all stations on the Beenleigh line.

"This limits the number of services that can be provided to support growth in travel demand between the cities of Brisbane, Logan and the Gold Coast," it says.

The Cross River Rail project website says the $5.4 billion project will provide an extra train every 15 minutes on the Beenleigh line and an extra train every five minutes on the Gold Coast line.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1st November 2019

RAIL Back on Track calls for 'R1', fast rail between the Northern Gold Coast and Brisbane.

Last week, the State Government announced their intention to proceed with the Coomera Connector, the so called "Second M1" that will act as a parallel route to the Pacific Motorway.

RAIL Back on Track fundamentally believes that if a massive 8 lane motorway is clogged and we are building a new one just a few kilometres away, we are at the point where fast rail between Brisbane and the Gold Coast is absolutely viable and a higher priority.

Will we be talking about a third M1 in another 20 years time when this new one inevitably fills up?

Rail infrastructure can carry and move more people and caters to growth effortlessly. Take the Merivale Bridge, it has taken over 40 years to reach capacity!

The Gold Coast line does not currently reach its potential because trains are forced to slow down north of Beenleigh and follow a winding route through Logan and the southside, that was established over 100 years ago, averaging a speed of only 50 km/h.
Capacity constraints caused by having to share tracks with trains to Beenleigh and Coopers Plains mean trains can only run half hourly most of the time.

It means people just drive instead in preference, causing the congestion crisis we see daily.

Cross River Rail will offer a few minutes time saving for Gold Coast trains, but it is only once piece of the puzzle and we need to be looking at a permanent long term solution for linking Queensland's two biggest cities.

Enter, the R1.

RAIL Back on Track believes the best long term solution is to divert Gold Coast trains onto a new dedicated express route that runs directly along the M1 from Beenleigh to Dutton park, allowing trains to reach speeds of at least 160 km/h, slashing travel times and providing an option well and truly faster than driving.

The line would be built as an elevated "skytrain" along the industrial service roads fronting the M1 for much of its length through Logan, before tunnelling under Mt Gravatt/Toohey forest to avoid steep inclines.

From there, the line can surface and run down the middle of the M1 through Holland Park, with a final short connector tunnel allowing trains to join into Cross River Rail.

To keep journey times fast, stops would be limited, potentially at new stations located at Hyperdome, Springwood and Garden City, to allow people to reach key employment hubs and to allow connections with busway services for intermediate destinations.

Obviously, Cross River Rail remains the #1 priority for the rail system, but we cannot lose momentum, sit on our hands, and ignore the next round of crucial rail system improvements.

A project such as this would indeed cost billions and wouldn't be complete until the late 2020s, but it offers a real, permanent solution for travel along the corridor than just continuing with the disruptive and unsustainable process of building more and more motorway lanes every few years.

Contacts:

Gavin Seipelt
Southern Region Spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


Goodna Qld  4300

References:

1.  Australian Government: National Faster Rail Agency

https://www.nfra.gov.au/projects

2.  Brisbanetimes:  Elevated fast rail along M1 has 'merit': transport minister

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/elevated-fast-rail-along-m1-has-merit-transport-minister-20191029-p535hl.html

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1189928282923270144

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1190002956583596032