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Author Topic: Queens Wharf Bus Changes  (Read 10112 times)

Online ozbob

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Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« on: August 09, 2016, 07:14:52 AM »
Brisbanetimes --> William St closed for six years, 50 bus routes change to build Queens Wharf

Quote
Part of one of Brisbane's main inner-city streets – William Street – will be closed for six years and 50 bus routes will be changed before Christmas to allow work on the new Queens Wharf Casino to begin.

It is the beginning of almost $10 million of major inner-city roadwork changes needed to begin construction of the new multi-billion dollar Queens Wharf casino and entertainment resort between George and William streets.

William Street – used by 8000 vehicles each day - will be closed between Elizabeth Street and Margaret Street before Christmas and stay closed for six years.

That will allow the demolition of the Executive Building – between George and William streets - and of the Neville Bonner Building on William Street in early January 2017 and then major construction.

Access to and from the Riverside Expressway will remain open.

However there will be no "right hand turns' from Elizabeth Street into William Street and no "left hand turns" from Margaret Street into William Street for six years.

That means more than 50 bus routes will need to be re-directed and major upgrades to 11 inner-city Brisbane intersections will be needed to let buses use new routes through the city.

The upgrades of intersections and relocating bus routes will take six to seven months and must be done by January 1, 2017.

The construction bill will be almost $10 million.

Brisbane City Council will outline the major changes to William Street, George Street, Edward Street, Charlotte and Elizabeth streets at a council meeting on Tuesday morning.

They will also formally ask the Queensland Government to cover the cost of the roadworks' changes that will cause major traffic disruption in inner-city traffic.

"The work will cost close to $10 million and we will be asking the state government for the money because Queens Wharf is a state government project," a source said last night.

A statement from Brisbane City Council on Monday night confirmed that;

    Queens Wharf Road along the Brisbane River will be permanently closed;
    William Street, between Elizabeth and Margaret streets will be closed for up to six years;
    11 CBD intersections need upgrades to accommodate the new bus routes; and
    about 50 CBD bus services need to be re-directed to stop traffic problems.

 "These essential works are required to be completed by the end of this year and Council is doing everything it can to ensure all works are completed on time," a spokesman said on Monday.

It means new bus routes, changes to pedestrian walking zones, new bus stops, new taxi pick-up areas and alternate access to the some inner-city hotels.

Changes

    New bus stops will be built in Mary Street and Charlotte Streets;
    Most buses from the Riverside Expressway will have to come off on Elizabeth street;
    Translink and Brisbane City Council will soon provide information on 50 new bus routes; and
    Changes to cycle ways.

The Queens Wharf precinct of Brisbane is where the European settlement of the city of Brisbane began 190 years ago.

The area runs from the edge of the Brisbane River up to George Street and includes city blocks running north to south from Queen Street to Alice Street.

What will happen and when?

2017 - Construction starts after 1 William Street is finished. This includes the removal of non-heritage buildings, then the start of underground car parks.

2018 - Begin foundations for core development area.

2019 - Foundations and car parks completed. Heritage work begins.

2020 - Core development starts to take shape as construction progresses above ground.

2021 - Internal fit out begins of casinos and hotels.

2022 - Opening of Queens Wharf Resort including the hotels and all public areas.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 07:17:15 AM »
Here is an opportunity to start some serious Brisbane bus network reform hey what?

But my guess is they will just tinker and further add to the bus-jam and complicate an already flawed network - I hope I am wrong!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 08:02:33 AM by ozbob »
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 07:27:36 AM »
Where are they being re-routed?

Cultural Centre? How is that going to work? Cultural Centre is already overcapacity.

And for six years. Wow. Good luck with that.


 :pfy:
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 07:51:05 AM »
Quack Quack !  Quacker will save them NOT !   :fp:

What a cluster-fu%k it is all turning out to be ...  whoa WTG BrisBANE !!

« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 08:03:48 AM by ozbob »
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Offline Derwan

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 10:55:54 AM »
Remember too that this will be happening AFTER 1 William St opens.  The bus network is supposed to be updated to support the new building.  (At least that's what they told public servants.)  So as well as re-routing buses for the closure, they need to re-route and add additional stops for 1 William St.
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Offline Derwan

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2016, 11:07:29 AM »
Where are they being re-routed?

Cultural Centre? How is that going to work? Cultural Centre is already overcapacity.

And for six years. Wow. Good luck with that.

I assume outbound via Cultural Centre for 6 years.  Inbound will be a permanent rerouting via the Elizabeth St off-ramp (due to the closure of Queens Wharf Road).  This will require a major rework of the intersection between William and Elizabeth streets to allow the buses to turn left into William St (across the southbound off-ramp traffic) - and then a rework of William St and Queen St to allow the buses to get into the busway.

What if Quirk's metro was to start construction within 6 years?  That would force the closure of the busway.  Where would buses go then?
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 12:03:27 PM »
Buses might have to feed high frequency rail services.

Fancy that ... lol

 :clp: :clp: :clp: :clp: :clp:
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Offline nathandavid88

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 01:35:10 PM »
I will be very interested to see what they do with the 555. The easy cop-out option would be to make the 555 skip the Mater Hill – Cultural Centre stretch and run along the Captain Cook Bridge, like the 566, 569, etc, forcing people to change at Buranda for the South Bank stretch. Otherwise, they will have to get it down to North Quay (probably via Creek Street and Adelaide or Ann Streets) and turn right onto the Victoria Bridge from there.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 01:44:17 PM »
This should be a golden opportunity to simplify the insane number of different peak hour services - but all that will happen is to reroute everything currently running, because it's "not broken" of course.

Online James

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2016, 01:47:31 PM »
Buses might have to feed high frequency rail services.

Fancy that ... lol

Outbound, the simple solution is to run buses via George St & the Ann St on-ramp (much like the 4xx Cityxpress routes do in the PM peak). Will probably cost more time and require some new line markings/signal changes, but will only cause relatively minor delays. Inbound, the ramifications are a lot more serious than just 'network reform'. Closing Queens Wharf Rd gives no access route from the Riverside Expressway to the busway spine (incl. QSBS) without installing a bus jump (at great $$$ and disruption to traffic flow). Can't turn left in the right-hand lanes!

While the only non-peak routes running via QWR are the 134, 161 and the 340, there are a whole heap of peak routes which will either be forced to go via the Cultural Centre or take a major diversion. Queens Wharf Rd also serves as a holding stand for multiple buses in the PM peak - heaven knows what they'll do.

The only solution I can see is running buses up Turbot St, then taking that little slip ramp and crossing Roma St and into the INB, turning right to access QSBS. This would fix all routes aside from the 340. For the 340 - you'd probably be better off terminating the bus down at Parliament/1 William St (via Elizabeth/Edward/Ann Streets), and starting it there and running it to KGSBS via Adelaide St, North Quay and the Queen St portal.

On face value, you can definitely say that it looks like BCC was not consulted on this at all. Not surprising to be honest.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2016, 02:53:29 PM »
Quote
This should be a golden opportunity to simplify the insane number of different peak hour services - but all that will happen is to reroute everything currently running, because it's "not broken" of course.

Might finally be time to merger 161. All stops via Cultural Centre.

Quote
I will be very interested to see what they do with the 555. The easy cop-out option would be to make the 555 skip the Mater Hill – Cultural Centre stretch and run along the Captain Cook Bridge, like the 566, 569, etc, forcing people to change at Buranda for the South Bank stretch. Otherwise, they will have to get it down to North Quay (probably via Creek Street and Adelaide or Ann Streets) and turn right onto the Victoria Bridge from there.

Mirror with 111.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 02:59:18 PM by LD Transit »
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2016, 03:00:00 PM »
http://translink.com.au/about-translink/projects-and-initiatives/queens-wharf-brisbane

Queen's Wharf Brisbane

A new development is on the way that is building towards an exciting future for Brisbane.

From late 2016, there’ll be changes to where your bus service travels, stops and leaves the CBD, as part of the Queen’s Wharf Brisbane Integrated Resort developmentOpens in a new window..

Due to permanent closure of Queens Wharf Road and temporary closure of William Street, bus routes that use these roads will be affected – some in both directions. Within the CBD these services and customers will be required to travel via alternative routes and may stop at different locations.

More information about which routes will be affected will be available on the TransLink website in the coming months.

Brisbane City Council have begun works at a number of intersections around the CBD that will enable the QWB development to start construction in early 2017.

As Brisbane builds towards an exciting future, we’ll aim to minimise inconvenience where possible for our customers ensuring there will be no change to frequency or span of hours for your service.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2016, 03:02:51 PM »
^
Quote
... As Brisbane builds towards an exciting future, we’ll aim to minimise inconvenience where possible for our customers ensuring there will be no change to frequency or span of hours for your service. ...

Appears that it will be just more of the same bus failure ... just moving deck chairs around  :fp:



Another opportunity lost for network improvement by the looks of things.  But what's new in BrisBANE !
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2016, 03:14:10 PM »
An opinion " ... As Brisbane builds towards an exciting future ... "  Exciting for who?  Gamblers ??

The facts indicate that BrisBANE is heading to transport dislocation and a ' toy metro ' sadly! 

 :fp:

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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2016, 03:27:28 PM »
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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2016, 03:31:48 PM »


 :bo
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2016, 06:09:58 PM »

^

 :o

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2016, 06:16:25 PM »
^  sounds like a great plan hey?  Adding even more buses to the bus-jam.  Gee bet the punters will enjoy this ..  :'(



I think it is getting very clear now.  The network is going to collapse.   

They are unable to do the correct things -  politics and ego before community.

Very sad situation for Brisbane.  Rest of SEQ is fairly rooted too, but Brisbane is lining up for mega-failure.

 :fp:

I wonder when the announcement for a ' car free Victoria Bridge ' will be made?  ..   :P   

« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 06:21:38 PM by ozbob »
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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2016, 06:34:05 PM »
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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2016, 06:44:19 PM »
Well well ...

No green Vic Bridge by the looks of things, the network. is. stuffed. sadly!!   :fp:

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2016, 06:52:36 PM »
It certainly was the right thing to do IMHO to go for ' green ' for Victoria Bridge.  It will help manage the meltdown, a fact recognised by BCC clearly.

State obviously wants the network to fall apart by the looks of things.  They lack the courage to take them on directly for proper bus network reform so just going to stand by and let it fall apart.  Not worthy either I am afraid.

Two failed outfits running the show ... LOLOL   The LNP is no better sadly.

Politics again getting in the way of sensible policy and stopping the right outcomes.

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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2016, 07:01:16 PM »
You couldn't make this stuff up hey?

UNBELIEVABLE !!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2016, 07:45:40 PM »
Just waiting for the obligatory new hi-waste rockets to be fired as part of this bus re-arrangement. 168 Garden City to Ferny Grove Rocket via Mt Coot-tha anyone?
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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2016, 07:59:26 PM »
Where is the new hourly 1 William Street to Queen St Bus Station route?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2016, 10:01:59 PM »
"Pride comes before a fall."

Quote
@JonathanPBryant 20% pfft! Brush up on your facts. Council bus patronage increased by at least 75% until TransLink messed with the fares.

Quote
@JonathanPBryant key factors included: 1) BUZ routes 2) Busways 3) fleet modernisation - air conditioning, accessibility 4) affordability

My thoughts: Yes, this is correct. But also the creation of TransLink that removed the transfer penalty between modes (I remember you had to buy a separate transfer ticket, different price) and rail/bus had separate pricing. Fares also went down when TL started.

BUZ routes were created by BCC (also using a leaseback mechanism with State Government funding) and they did increase patronage markedly. However, the surrounding network was not restructured. It was just left in place. I think BUZ routes only make up 8% of the bus routes in Brisbane.

This lack of rationalisation is what makes the growth unsustainable. It would have been fine if they upgraded the network and then fixed up the rest of the network. They have not done this. In essence, they are paying for two bus networks - the OLD network AND the improvements.

The busways have meant that more buses can get into the CBD faster, but the CBD itself has not expanded in size (and it cannot, it is in the bend of a river). Hence the bus jams.

This is also the reason why Cr Schrinner's pet project, the Eastern Busway, does not make sense to build at this stage. All it will do is accelerate high volumes of buses directly into very congested bottlenecks at Buranda, Cultural Centre and the Captain Cook Bridge.

Blue team has enjoyed a very long term of office in City Hall. My observation is that when an administration has been so entrenched for a very long time, the rot sets in, standards become lax, listening stops, and so forth. What's needed down there is for them to lose office so they can take a good look at themselves and renew themselves.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 10:19:14 PM by LD Transit »
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2016, 10:57:23 PM »
I reckon the 340 could loop out of King George Sq Station then onto Ann then the Freeway Captain Cook bridge. Then outbound Turbot exit then Roma St into King George Sq station.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2016, 11:18:38 PM »
I reckon the 340 could loop out of King George Sq Station then onto Ann then the Freeway Captain Cook bridge. Then outbound Turbot exit then Roma St into King George Sq station.

Using the 'donut' turn arounds either side of KGS? Have too many using those and you would wreck the main North-South flow through there and make Vic bridge worse.

Interesting with BCC blaming QG for not allowing them to make Vic bridge a green bridge - thought it was BCC's bridge. Interesting to see what the agreement must be about it being TMR's busway on the BCC bridge.

But will be interesting to see what they do come up with with the changed routes. Hopefully TMR's planners manage to get some common sense happening.
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2016, 03:01:20 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

10th August 2016

Please take the dummies out ... Transport chaos confirmed

Greetings,

The Queensland Government and Brisbane City Council are putting politics before the community.

With the bus changes associated with the looming construction works for the Queens Wharf Brisbane project there will be an increase in the number of buses that will need to use Victoria Bridge. Victoria Bridge is already over-capacity at peak times for buses and adding more buses to the bus-jam is only going to make everything a lot worse. BCC have requested that Victoria Bridge be made into a ' green ' bridge - to help manage the bus congestion. 

The State Government has refused to allow this happen ( https://twitter.com/Schrinner/status/762843258355535874 ).  Some might argue that this is just spite for the lack of previous cooperation from BCC with respect to bus reform.  The problem is of course that it will be the bus commuters that will suffer because of the stand off between the State Government and BCC.  Can sanity please prevail and permission be granted to turn Victoria Bridge into a green bridge (no cars, buses, bicycles and pedestrians only) please?  Perhaps a condition of this could be that BCC will now cooperate in a bus reform process for Brisbane. Can the State Government and BCC please put the community first?

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's metro proposal is nonsense though. If enacted,  it will require the cutting and modification of almost all bus routes into Brisbane.  Main busway corridors into and out of the Brisbane CBD will be blocked by the new metro, both during metro operation and construction. This means the entire bus network will have to be moved over to a 'terminate and transfer' bus model. The looming transport chaos associated with Queens Wharf construction will seem trivial in comparison.

We believe that the proper bus network planning agency is TransLink, not Brisbane City Council. SEQ is bigger than just Brisbane.

It is time that TransLink was reconstituted as a statutory authority with its powers enshrined in law, as it was originally envisioned by former Queensland Premier Peter Beattie (1).

RAIL Back on Track has determined that Lord Mayor Quirk's metro proposal will actually reduce public transport network capacity. That is totally unacceptable to us. Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's proposed metro carriages are simply too small to match current busway capacity let alone deliver a capacity increase.

The minimum train size to reach the touted 30 000 passengers/direction/hour is 750 passengers per train. Lord Mayor Graham Quirk has proposed using trains with only 300 passenger capacity. This isn't a metro, it is the equivalent of a rubber tyred tram proposal!

It is our opinion that Brisbane's Bus Network, under the stewardship of Brisbane City Council, is being run into the ground. We are absolutely dissatisfied with the bus network route planning in particular, which has left entire suburbs such as Yeronga, Bulimba, the Northwestern suburbs, UQ students and staff living in the inner northwest and residents in the Centenary Suburbs with a lack of decent and frequent public transport options.

Why has the Queensland Government not terminated Brisbane City Council's public transport responsibilities?

Brisbane is the State capital and engine room of the State's economy. Is the Palaszczuk Government going to do anything? Or is it planning to sink into oblivion at the next election as dissatisfied voters lose patience with the major parties over their gross inaction?

We have shown how to fix up Brisbane's bus network with our New Bus Network Proposal > http://tiny.cc/newnetwork which has been public for three years. Please, fix it!

Take the dummies out and get on with proper governance.

Best wishes,
Robert

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Reference:

1.  Public Transport Queensland > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12341.msg177536#msg177536
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2016, 03:16:36 AM »
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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2016, 08:54:03 AM »
From the archives ...

November 22 2011

Brisbanetimes --> Ban Cars From Victoria Bridge In Brisbane, Transport Experts Say

Quote
Cars should be banned from Brisbane's Victoria Bridge to counter growing peak hour congestion for buses, public transport specialists say.

There are now more than 200 buses an hour on the bridge between South Bank and the CBD in the morning and afternoon peak periods, an increase of 15 buses an hour in the past two years.

University of Queensland's urban planning expert Professor Peter Spearritt, a former director of the Brisbane Institute, said cars should be banned from the bridge immediately.

"It should have happened a year ago," Professor Spearritt said.

"You have an absurd build-up of buses in the tunnel coming on to Melbourne Street, that is travelling south to north," he said, reporting his observations came from personal experience.

"And in morning peak period, people can be sitting there for 20 minutes.

"It is just ridiculous, just ridiculous."

Professor Spearritt advocated the Victoria Bridge should become Brisbane's second "green" bridge, and like the Eleanor Schonell Bridge at St Lucia, be only opened to public transport, cyclists and pedestrians.

Rail: Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow agreed, saying the Victoria Bridge was now "controlled chaos", with the bridge choked by buses in the morning and afternoon peak hours.

"I think cars have to be removed from Victoria Bridge," Mr Dow said.

"That would give them some extra capacity with some remodelling of the Cultural Centre bus station.

"Perhaps put another lane in there, that would mean that buses would flow a bit easier."

Mr Dow said this was an immediate solution to the peak-hour problem but the long-term answer was the 2006 idea of a new "green bridge" from the top of Adelaide Street.

"The system is just overloaded. There is just far too many buses being squeezed in at peak times," Mr Dow said.

"It is almost routine now to have a bus jam inbound in the morning and outbound in the afternoon.

Mr Dow said there would be no support for plans to put buses in special lanes on the Riverside Expressway or the Story Bridge.

"There would be as much chance of that happening as me flying to the moon tomorrow," he said.

He understood removing cars could open the debate about "funnelling" cars on the nearby Go Between Bridge where motorists pay a toll, but this could be managed.

Professor Spearritt said there were two problems with the current arrangement.

In the morning, buses queued waiting to turn right to get on to the Victoria Bridge from the South Bank busway.

In the afternoon peak, there was "shocking congestion" at the Cultural Centre bus station.

"That is more problematic, that is a hard one. They just that they don't have enough bus stopping spots to do the pick up," he said.

Professor Spearritt said he unsure of the merit in building another bridge at the top of Adelaide Street.

But he said the success of Brisbane's first "Green Bridge", Eleanor Schonell Bridge at St Lucia, was a test case to getting rid of cars from Victoria Bridge.

"The phenomenal success of the Green Bridge in terms of pedestrians and cyclists and buses is there for all to see. I mean thousands and thousands of people use it a day."

Professor Spearritt said there was a "relatively modest" number of motorists using the Victoria Bridge and it should become a "bus only" link as soon as possible.

"There are other ways of getting and out of the CBD," he said.

"It should be done immediately."

The state government and Brisbane City Council last night rejected calls for such a move.

November 28 2011

Brisbanetimes --> Ban Cars And Some Buses From Victoria Bridge, Experts Say

Quote
Four more public transport figures have backed calls for cars - and in some cases buses - to be banned from Brisbane's Victoria Bridge.

Six transport "planners" have now described the Victoria Bridge, from the top of Queen Street across to the Cultural Centre, as Brisbane's public transport's weakest link.

They say there is simply no more room to put extra buses across the bridge.

Two say the bridge should become part of a grand pedestrian walkway, free of cars and buses, that would become an international feature for Brisbane.

The bridge is jammed in morning and afternoon peak hours with more than 200 buses an hour running through the Cultural Centre Busway, according to Translink.

Last week lobby group Rail Back on Track and former Brisbane Institute strategic planner Peter Spearritt opened the debate and called for cars to be banned from Victoria Bridge.

Since then, Brian Camilleri from transport planners the TTP Group, Professor Phil Charles from the University of Queensland's school of engineering, Michael Roth from the RACQ and a fourth transport planner, who requested anonymity, have weighed into the debate.

Transport engineer Mr Camilleri said the number of buses expected to travel along the Eastern Busway and the Southeast Busway would put too much traffic on Victoria Bridge.

The South East Busway now carries 150,000 people a day, while the "junior" Eastern Busway will carry about 7000 people a day by 2016.

"When you are spending that much money - billions and billions on busways feeding out to all these outer suburbs - if you don't do something with the most important link, it is almost defeating the purpose," Mr Camilleri said.

'These things are going out as far as Capalaba.

"But where do they all feed to? The City, into the Myer Centre and they rely on that little tiny bridge to get across."

Mr Camilleri said planners should build a tunnel under the river between the Myer Centre and the South Bank Busway, which was considered when the busway was planned.

"So to me, the ultimate scheme ... would be to put it underneath," he said.

Mr Camilleri said the solution was to remove the buses, remove most of the traffic lights and open up the Melbourne Street strip as a grand boulevard.

"If you got rid of all the bus stuff down there, I think it would become a great boulevard," he said.

"From West End, all the way down Boundary Street there right into the heart of Brisbane.

"It could become a great feature of Brisbane.

"But you stand there now and I think I counted 65 red lights. It's like a Christmas tree, it's just ridiculous."

But a senior transport planner from a southeast Queensland firm, who asked for anonymity, said a tunnel under the river would be "too steep" and "too expensive".

The man works for a company contracted to the state government to provide transport advice.

"There is less funding available and the question of how we get transport projects funded and moving forward, really it is becoming more difficult to do to those really big schemes," he said.

"There is obviously difficulties in funding Cross River Rail at the moment."

The specialist said it was difficult to see how another "under-river" tunnel could be funded in Brisbane in the current economic climate.

He said the location was also difficult for a tunnel.

"It is fiddly trying to join all the elements together," he said.

"It is a reasonably deep river and if you can get it [the tunnel] down, could you get back up again in so short a distance?"

The specialist said he believed the better option was re-prioritise the current services, but doubted Brisbane City Council's plan to build a new bridge from Adelaide Street would work.

"Launching that bridge from the South Brisbane side would be tricky," he said.

"You have to connect that into the [Cultural Centre] busway and you do have already capacity constraints with the platforms as we speak."

The planner also questioned the problems of connecting into the existing intersection at the top of Adelaide Street.

"It would change the three-way intersection into a four-way intersection."

He agreed that cars should be phased off the Victoria Bridge and the bridge considered a pedestrian walkway.

"By taking out cars, you potentially reduce the conflict so the journey is quicker and the amenity for those [South Brisbane to CBD] movements is a lot stronger.

"I would certainly like to see a where we did give that priority and it could be a real statement for the city."

Transport Professor Phil Charles, from the University of Queensland's School of Engineering, said the Cultural Centre Busway was already choked and decentralisation was the answer.

Professor Charles said buses should now link to rail stations outside the inner city such as Albion and Bowen Hills.

"At the moment there is just no more capacity in the city," Professor Charles said.

He agreed research was badly needed to examine future growth of the Cultural Centre busway at South Brisbane.

"And it is not so much the Victoria Bridge, it is where the buses can be accommodated and where they can be terminated to get into the city," he said.

"Sydney's George Street is now 'wall to wall' buses.

"There is just a physical limit on how much you can get the capacity in there, and it is the same here in Brisbane."

Professor Charles doubted there was merit in spending a lot of money on a tunnel under the river to connect the Myer Centre and the South Bank busway.

"Tunnels are 10 times more expensive than surface facilities, so you really do need to look very seriously at whether you can justify it," he said.

"What I do is stand back and say 'why are we trying to solve this short-term problem when we should be looking more long term?'

"And to me, in the long term, it is not viable. You can't keep pouring more and more into the city."

The RACQ's director of public policy, Michael Roth, agrees Victoria Bridge has no more room for buses.

"It is pretty much at capacity, the problem is that the busway intersection with Melbourne Street is also at capacity," Mr Roth said.

"Putting more capacity on Victoria Bridge won't improve the situation."

Mr Roth said the RACQ believed Translink's only solution to get more buses on to the South East Busway was to take divert them to the Captain Cook Bridge.

"And they have already been taking been pursuing the strategy," Mr Roth said.

He said there was a "fine balancing act" under way at present.

"The big point is that they can't take too many more buses through South Brisbane. They might be able to take some more buses through the Captain Cook Bridge.

"But they can't get any more through that South Brisbane section."

Mr Roth questioned the cost of busways, suggesting more benefit could come from dedicated bus lanes on roadways.

"When one understands that every kilometre of busway equals about four kilometres of additional bus lanes that do not exist, it is easy to see how alternative projects could possibly have delivered more benefit," he said.

Mr Roth said congestion costs would be the decider.

"The ultimate performance indicator in this space is of-course congestion," he said.

"RACQ surveys show over 90 per cent of members believe congestion is increasing."



« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 09:06:18 AM by ozbob »
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2016, 09:08:50 AM »
^ beyond farce. 

Billions to be spent on a ' metro ' that wrecks the bus network and reduces network capacity ...

Or ..

Near cost neutral bus network reform, ' greening ' of Victoria Bridge and sorting Cultural Centre bus station will deliver the goods.

A Government that is gutless to pull BCC into line.

Brisbane, you are rooted!!
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Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2016, 09:18:21 AM »
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Offline techblitz

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2016, 09:31:34 AM »
its only getting started....wait until the sharing/services economy goes full swing....
airtasker,uber and more potential food delivery startups as well as other future niches which will ultimately put more cars on the road...
I reside near the corner granard,beaudesert rds and there is an absolutely huge number of cheap(500-2000 dollar) cars being sold to cash strapped students/migrants/refugees/unemployed who will ultimately rely on the sharing economy for a basic living and to do that WILL require a car....
The sad thing is the increasing sharing economy congestion will make BT/BCC bus routes more costly/less productive as their buses sit longer and longer in traffic. Even the lowly used 225 is suffering regular 10-15 min delays because of increasing congestion at Belmont/Wynnum rds. That's where a lot of money is being thrown out the door....air carrying buses stuck in increasing congestion.

Online ozbob

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2016, 09:59:35 AM »
Quote
... Even the lowly used 225 is suffering regular 10-15 min delays because of increasing congestion at Belmont/Wynnum rds. That's where a lot of money is being thrown out the door....air carrying buses stuck in increasing congestion.

Yep.  The bus network congestion will continue to get worse has you have indicated TB.

No one seems to care.  Vic Bridge major issue 2011 (^^^)  worse now.  And it will soon be even more diabolical.

Council and a succession of State Governments, basically simply don't care for the average punter. 

My guess is electoral revenge will ultimately be very sweet ..  :-*
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2016, 01:46:49 AM »
The bridge is a BCC bridge, but the works to Cultural Centre are State Government infrastructure, am I correct?

Therefore modifications to the bridge would not raise a charge, but modifications to Cultural Centre will.

I remember when Cultural Centre was expanded around 2004. I didn't think they would find the space, but there was!

The way forward from here is that BCC commission a report into the works and complete a business case. If it is big enough, Building Queensland will do the assessment for that.

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2016, 12:45:03 AM »
Some sensible things could be done:

Terminate 340 at Chermside
555 can follow 111 through KGSBS/RS and turnaround at Normanby(? I thought there is a turnaround facility there)
Some of the half empty peak hours expresses can get the chop, or terminate at 'Gabba and transfer to 29/200 or other routes there.

Offline City Designer

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2016, 02:04:14 PM »
Stop trying to make the 555 go to Roma St Station. The 555 is a trunk regional service, not a busway service. Separating the 555 from the other southern regon services would be an insane thing to do.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2016, 03:51:25 PM »
Quote
Stop trying to make the 555 go to Roma St Station. The 555 is a trunk regional service, not a busway service. Separating the 555 from the other southern regon services would be an insane thing to do.

I don't understand this statement. If it is a ' regional ' service, doesn't that suggest it should stop at Roma Street?

Regional trains stop at Roma Street. As do regional charter buses. And tourists from the Airport.
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2016, 04:46:54 PM »
He's saying it makes no sense to separate it from the other Logan (peak hour) services, which I agree with.

Funny how the private operator peak services all behave rationally (ie buses going to the same rough area leave from the same stops instead of having different bus stops you need to go to depending on the time of day, or not sharing stops at all).

achiruel

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Re: Queens Wharf Bus Changes
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2016, 05:48:57 AM »
One could also argue that the 555 is simply an extension of the 111, servicing the same stops along the busway and therefore should leave from the same CBD stops.

 

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