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Author Topic: Average Journey Speeds  (Read 1747 times)

Offline BrizCommuter

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Average Journey Speeds
« on: June 03, 2016, 12:46:43 PM »
I've just published an article looking at average journey speed across QR's network.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/average-journey-speeds-in-se-queensland.html

Doomben Line (9.9km) - 30kph
Ferny Grove Line (16.1km) - 31kph
Shorncliffe Line (20.7km)   34kph
Cleveland Line Manly peak all stations (24.1km) - 34kph
Beenleigh Line (40.1km) - 36kph
Airport Line (15.9km) - 40kph
Cleveland Line (37.3km) - Peak 41kph; Off Peak 36kph
Springfield Line (29.6km) - 43kph
Kippa-Ring Line (40.1km) - 44kph post-MBRL opening
Ipswich Line (38.6km) - Peak 46kph; Off Peak 40kph
Rosewood Line (57km) - Peak 47kph
Caboolture Line (49.6km) - 47kph; 58kph post-MBRL opening
Sunshine Coast Line/Nambour* (104.8km) - 55kph to 59kph; 58kph post-MBRL opening
Gold Coast Line (89.4km) - 68kph

Feel free to discuss.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2016, 12:50:18 PM »
 Beenleigh is not the slowest?!

Offline ozbob

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2016, 12:56:07 PM »
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Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 7s

BrizCommuter - Average journey speeds in SE Queensland (rail)

> http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/average-journey-speeds-in-se-queensland.html … #qldpol
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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2016, 01:27:43 PM »
Beenleigh is not the slowest?!
It's the slowest in the medium distance category.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2016, 01:42:44 PM »
I'd be interested to see the difference between Beenleigh-Kuraby and Kuraby-Central.

If you could detach the outer bit from the inner bit by providing a new M1 alignment and scrubbing out Trinder Park for good measure, most of the problems would go away.

Offline tazzer9

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2016, 01:58:27 PM »
Springfield line shows how slow the roma st-darra section.   Only 43km/h when its timetabled for an average speed of 60km/h on the springfield branch.  Even then that's only because its timetabled for the slower EMU's.  If they solely used the new smu260's it would be around 70-80 km/h on that section.

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2016, 02:43:16 PM »
The Bundaberg/Rockhampton Tilts (billed as the fastest trains in the Southern Hemisphere) leave at different times during the week (later on Tuesdays and Thursdays) roll along at about 19kph to Wooloowin, trailing other trains, then pick up to 30 kph from Northgate to outer suburbs, opening the throttle a bit to Caboolture, arriving in the same time as a Nambour commuter service running express from Northgate to Caboolture.  Passengers are advised that the tilt mechanism is not operational over the Roma Street-Caboolture leg.

Offline tazzer9

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2016, 03:42:25 PM »
The tilts average the same speed as a commuter train because they are pretty much doing the same run. And they have lower acceleration.   
Tilting mechanisms generally don't even operate below 60km/h anyway.   

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2016, 05:36:27 PM »
I'd be interested to see the difference between Beenleigh-Kuraby and Kuraby-Central.

If you could detach the outer bit from the inner bit by providing a new M1 alignment and scrubbing out Trinder Park for good measure, most of the problems would go away.

Kuraby to Central 25.5km/42min  = 36kph (same as Beenleigh to Central)


Offline newbris

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 05:59:36 PM »
Might be interesting to compare the time vs the crow flies distance rather than the line distance.

Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2016, 06:48:17 PM »
Did you include the rail buses for the Sunshine Coast line statistics?
They are our train services after all.

I too did an exhaustive analysis of ALL Sunshine Coast services, both weekday and weekends, for current and post-MBRL.
My line length was 104.9km to Roma St.
E.g. Average journey times of all weekday services are greater than 2 hours in both cases, not sure how you get the speeds for our line.

E.g. Current timetable weekday southbound average journey time to Roma St is 2 hours 11 minutes 33 seconds = 131.56 minutes or 104.9km/2.19 hours = 47.9km/h

Best current results for ALL services are Southbound on a Saturday with 1 hour 57 minutes 30 seconds = 117.50 minutes or 104.9km/1.9583' hours = 53.6km/h

I note that your blog defines your results to peak services only and excludes Gympie North trains, hence the disparity in results. My statistics include ALL services.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 07:31:05 PM by Fares_Fair »
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Offline newbris

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2016, 06:54:22 PM »
Might be interesting to compare the time vs the crow flies distance rather than the line distance.

I'm clearly bored  :)



Doomben Line
Line Distance: (9.9km) - 30kph 
Crow Distance: (7.2km) - 22kph

Cleveland Line from Manly peak all stations
Line Distance (24.1km):   34kph   
Crow Distance (17.7km):  25kph

Ferny Grove
Line Distance: (16.1km) - 31kph   
Crow Distance: (14km) - 27kph

Cleveland
Line Distance (37.3km):  Peak 41kph; Off Peak 36kph
Crow Distance (26.6km): Peak 29kph; Off Peak 26kph

Shorncliffe
Line Distance (20.7km):   34kph   
Crow Distance (18.6km):  31kph

Kippa-Ring
Line Distance (40.1km):  44kph post-MBRL opening
Crow Distance (30km):   33kph

Beenleigh
Line Distance (45km):      40kph   
Crow Distance (40.1km): 36kph

Airport
Line Distance (15.9km):  40kph
Crow Distance (15.9km): 40kph

Ipswich
Line Distance (38.6km):  Peak 46kph; Off Peak 40kph
Crow Distance (36km):   Peak 42kph Off Peak 37kph

Springfield
Line Distance (29.6km):  43kph
Crow Distance (29.6km):  43kph

Rosewood
Line Distance (57km):    Peak 47kph
Crow Distance (57km):   Peak 47kph

Caboolture
Line Distance (49.6km):  47kph;  58kph post-MBRL opening
Crow Distance (49.6km): 47kph;  58kph post-MBRL opening

Sunshine Coast Line/Nambour*
Line Distance (104.8km):   55kph to 59kph; 58kph post-MBRL opening
Crow Distance (104.8km):  55kph to 59kph; 58kph post-MBRL opening

Gold Coast
Line Distance (89.4km):   68kph
Crow Distance (89.4km):  68kph

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2016, 07:18:00 PM »
Did you include the rail buses for the Sunshine Coast line statistics?
They are our train services after all.

I too did an exhaustive analysis of all Sunshine Coast services, both weekday and weekends, for current and post-MBRL.
My line length was 104.9km to Roma St.
E.g. Average journey times of all weekday services are greater than 2 hours in both cases, not sure how you get the speeds for our line.

E.g. Current timetable weekday southbound average journey time to Roma St is 2 hours 11 minutes 33 seconds = 131.56 minutes or 2.19 hours/104.9km = 47.9km/h

Direct am peak services (not the ex-Gympie one) were used in this comparison - one that stops all stations Caboolture to Petrie and another that doesn't. Times are Nambour departure to Central arrival. Distance is Nambour to Central.   

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2016, 09:04:10 PM »
Wow! So slow! More of a case for QR to add more data allowance for Wi-Fi to endure the trip.

Offline bretto82

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2016, 09:40:35 PM »
Hey Briz just a FYI the km is to Roma street not central

Offline James

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2016, 09:59:44 PM »
Might be interesting to compare the time vs the crow flies distance rather than the line distance.

I reckon the most interesting one would be to compare travel times by road from stations in peak/off-peak vs. travel times by rail from key stations. The fact rail loses based on travel time alone in the off-peak, and even in the peak from some stations, would say a lot for why our rail network is so under utilised.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2016, 10:33:15 PM »
Might be interesting to compare the time vs the crow flies distance rather than the line distance.

I reckon the most interesting one would be to compare travel times by road from stations in peak/off-peak vs. travel times by rail from key stations. The fact rail loses based on travel time alone in the off-peak, and even in the peak from some stations, would say a lot for why our rail network is so under utilised.

Hi James,

Funny you should mention that.

About 2 years ago, The Courier Mail drove from Central station to Palmwoods (97.3km), leaving at 5:04pm at the same time as the train, and drove to meet me at Palmwoods.
The driver arrived 3 minutes before the train (at 6:45pm) with train due in at 6:48pm.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Offline tazzer9

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2016, 11:42:54 PM »

I reckon the most interesting one would be to compare travel times by road from stations in peak/off-peak vs. travel times by rail from key stations. The fact rail loses based on travel time alone in the off-peak, and even in the peak from some stations, would say a lot for why our rail network is so under utilised.
[/quote]

The peak is where public transport is most competitive with cars.  This will always be the case everywhere in the world.  Off peak means no traffic on roads = faster point to point transport.  On a rail network, peak hour generally doesn't mean a slow down of services, every other city in australia proves that.   its just in qld we have haven't expanded our infrastructure to properly cope with the volume of trains and passengers, so it means we have to deal with stuff like beenleigh trains getting stopped for overtaking and merging of caboolture and nambour trains.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2016, 12:50:10 AM »
Might be interesting to compare the time vs the crow flies distance rather than the line distance.

I reckon the most interesting one would be to compare travel times by road from stations in peak/off-peak vs. travel times by rail from key stations. The fact rail loses based on travel time alone in the off-peak, and even in the peak from some stations, would say a lot for why our rail network is so under utilised.

Hi James,

Funny you should mention that.

About 2 years ago, The Courier Mail drove from Central station to Palmwoods (97.3km), leaving at 5:04pm at the same time as the train, and drove to meet me at Palmwoods.
The driver arrived 3 minutes before the train (at 6:45pm) with train due in at 6:48pm.
Yeah was going to mention that too! Car or Bus not much faster due to congestion and start/stop

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
Hey Briz just a FYI the km is to Roma street not central

BrizCommuter is using the distances on the track maps on wikipedia, which uses Central as the 0 point as per the below link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferny_Grove_railway_line

QR's official distances use Roma St as the 0 point, but that is not relevant to this blog post.

Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2016, 04:00:29 PM »
Might be interesting to compare the time vs the crow flies distance rather than the line distance.

I reckon the most interesting one would be to compare travel times by road from stations in peak/off-peak vs. travel times by rail from key stations. The fact rail loses based on travel time alone in the off-peak, and even in the peak from some stations, would say a lot for why our rail network is so under utilised.

Hi James,

Funny you should mention that.

About 2 years ago, The Courier Mail drove from Central station to Palmwoods (97.3km), leaving at 5:04pm at the same time as the train, and drove to meet me at Palmwoods.
The driver arrived 3 minutes before the train (at 6:45pm) with train due in at 6:48pm.
Yeah was going to mention that too! Car or Bus not much faster due to congestion and start/stop

That comparison may be coming in the future. The only issue is that no one really drives from train station to train station, no one takes a bus from railway station to railway station, and no-one both lives and works at the start/end train stations. Thus as soon as you compare modes you need a chosen start and end point, the choice of which can favour one mode over another.

Offline tazzer9

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2016, 05:29:10 PM »
There are some people in brisbane who live and work within a very close distance of railway stations.  In sydney its rather common.  A few thousand people live directly over chatswood and st leonards stations.

Offline James

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Re: Average Journey Speeds
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2016, 09:58:14 AM »
That comparison may be coming in the future. The only issue is that no one really drives from train station to train station, no one takes a bus from railway station to railway station, and no-one both lives and works at the start/end train stations. Thus as soon as you compare modes you need a chosen start and end point, the choice of which can favour one mode over another.

I guess my point here is that if one gets close to, or their journey intersects with, a railway line, the difference between the journey of home -(car)- Station -(train) - CBD is similar to Home -(car) - CBD. Sure, there may be small variations in CBD destinations, but the entire Brisbane CBD can be covered by foot in about 10 minutes from one of the main stations. It'd take this long to get out of some carparks in peak hour anyway.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

 

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