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Author Topic: Ellen Grove Railway Station  (Read 4324 times)

Offline ozbob

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Ellen Grove Railway Station
« on: April 12, 2016, 09:20:05 AM »
Couriermail Quest --> Transport lobbyist Robert Dow urges State Government to build planned Ellen Grove train station


Residents and transport lobbyists want Ellen Grove station, earmarked for the Springfield line, to open as soon as possible. Pic by Sarah Keayes

Quote
PUBLIC transport advocate Robert Dow is calling on the State Government to urgently build a train station at Ellen Grove.

The Rail Back on Track transport lobbyist said he “always knew (Richlands train station) was going to get parked out” and the planned Ellen Grove stop would “drain the back half of Forest Lake really well”.

However, a TransLink spokesman said Ellen Grove station was only a future possibility.

Mr Dow said the construction of the station was urgent.

“It was needed five years ago,” he said. “We were really disappointed we couldn’t get Ellen Grove built from the outset.”

Mr Dow claimed work had started at the Ellen Grove site and signalling was in place.

But the TransLink spokesman said the site had been preserved in a corridor that would see an addition to the Springfield line.

“While work did not commence on the station, the design took into consideration the possibility of a future station at Ellen Grove and the track was constructed in such a way to future proof the location,” he said.

In addition, Mr Dow said more work was needed on feeder bus options to Richlands station.

Mr Dow said recommendations for a high-frequency bus to service Mt Ommaney, Oxley, Inala, Forest Lake and Richlands was discussed in 2013 but dismissed.

“The 100 BUZ, as you know, gets stuck on the highway,” he said. “They need more feeder buses into Richlands.”

He said some residents drove past Richlands station down Progress Rd to park at Wacol and Gailes stations, adding to congestion.

A TransLink spokesman said bus route 460 (Heathwood to City) and 101 (Forest Lake to Oxley) ran regularly to Richlands station.

He said during the Brisbane City Council-led bus network review in 2013 the 462, 465 and 466 bus routes, which previously serviced Richlands station, were removed.

“The Department of Transport and Main Roads continues to monitor parking and bus use to Richlands station and will review services as part of ongoing planning which will consider network priorities, patronage and cost benefit,” he said.

Newly elected Councillor Charles Strunk (Forest Lake ward) supported the call for more transport services in the region.

He said by 8am the 650 car parks at Richlands train station are gone.

“And there are only two buses coming in to the train station. Those buses go in and around the Forest Lake area, but there’s not enough feeder buses to the train station,” he said.

“We were hoping when Springfield opened up we wouldn’t get as many people driving in from Springfield but that only lasted a few weeks.

“Wouldn’t it be better to keep your cars out of the way and not have them baking in the sun or being bashed by a car door?”

The stats

• On average, 990 passengers board a train each day at Richlands train station; or 6929 each week

• In the first six months of the 2015-16 financial year, there has been a patronage increase of 12 per cent compared with the same period the previous year

• The Springfield rail line cost $475m and opened in December 2013

• The 460 bus route runs to Richlands station runs every 10-14 minutes in peak hours and half-hourly in off-peak hours

• The 101 runs hourly to allow commuters to travel to the station
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 09:28:38 AM »
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 02:49:16 AM by ozbob »
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Offline kram0

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 11:42:35 AM »
How long would it take them to construct? Cost?

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 12:12:10 PM »
It doesn't have to be a rolled gold station.  Can be built with a subway and ramps (Cardinia Road in Melbourne a good model of sorts, no lifts, 2 side platforms full DDA), lifts not needed.  I guess upwards 80 to 100 million.  Real shame it was not done green field.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 12:45:08 PM by ozbob »
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 01:10:33 PM »
New stations in Adelaide have been done for under $20 mil.

My personal view is that Richland's should just be expanded, with say $15 mil of parking,  and a 460 HF type route.

This keeps the line speed fast on that nice straight between Springfield and Richlands

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 01:40:44 PM »
It is going to be done, just a matter of when.
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Offline dancingmongoose

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2016, 02:24:09 PM »
Wait, so there's 1000 people per day boarding at Richlands and 65% of them are driving and parking there? That's damning.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 02:31:49 PM »
Richlands is growing rapidly now.  Lots of new residential (not the best planned either) popping up.  If you look at the map above there is a lot of Forest Lake residential that is a lot closer to Ellen Grove than Richlands.  Also Ellen Grove has been rezoned so it is going to be developed out as well.  Carole Park will be able to access Ellen Grove too.  There is reserved lane corridor through Carole Park to Ellen Grove station site for access, only a short walk.  Only a matter of time ...
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2016, 02:43:01 PM »
I have been keeping a general eye on Wacol and Gailes verge parking.  Verge parking is getting back to the levels we saw prior to Richlands and then Springfield opening. I also noted Dinmore parking was completely full as well prior to the school holidays - never seen that before.
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Offline tazzer9

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2016, 03:03:57 PM »
Wait, so there's 1000 people per day boarding at Richlands and 65% of them are driving and parking there? That's damning.

Just imagine how many are getting dropped off by car as well.   It doesnt have much walk up catchment

Offline STB

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2016, 03:53:18 PM »
New stations in Adelaide have been done for under $20 mil.

My personal view is that Richland's should just be expanded, with say $15 mil of parking,  and a 460 HF type route.

This keeps the line speed fast on that nice straight between Springfield and Richlands

I tend to agree with Gazza.  The road network is such that it all converges onto Richlands and the stations are much more nicely spaced out on the Springfield line than it will be on MBRL which frankly I think there are too many stations on the MBRL, while the Springfield line has just enough, particularly as the line gets extended out to Ipswich eventually via Yamanto and Ripley, Ellen Grove is quite close to Richlands (probably as close as some of the stations on the MBRL) and really I think would only be used to relieve pressure on Richlands.

I'd be expanding Richlands and beefing up the buses first before building Ellen Grove IMO.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2016, 03:59:37 PM »
Why can't we just do greenfields hi density? That could pay for a station there. 8-10 storey approved.

The road and positioning needs to be exact. That would allow BUZ 100 or similar to grab everyone in Inala - Forest Lake and feed

them into the railway network. It is not good that 460 hang around, whenever I have been on it, it has been an air parcel.
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Offline STB

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2016, 04:02:34 PM »
Why can't we just do greenfields hi density? That could pay for a station there. 8-10 storey approved.

The road and positioning needs to be exact. That would allow BUZ 100 or similar to grab everyone in Inala - Forest Lake and feed

them into the railway network. It is not good that 460 hang around, whenever I have been on it, it has been an air parcel.

The 460 is just a route that competes with the train network, among others in the Brisbane Transport network.  I'd argue that it still needs to service Mt Ommaney from Forest Lake/Inala, but I doubt it needs to go any further.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2016, 04:05:26 PM »
Having observed the area closely for 10 years I have no doubt Ellen Grove is needed and will be built.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2016, 05:01:49 PM »
> http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-ellen+grove-122315166

LOL
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2016, 06:00:38 PM »
It's the rezoning that will see more movement on Ellen Grove.

Saying that, parking capacity really does need to be expanded at a lot of stations.  The issues are complex:

- Keeping parking at surface level only makes it cheaper to deliver but blocks up a lot of land
- Building multi-storeys jacks up the cost immensely, but uses less land
- The cost of providing multi-storeys might be set off against other savings (eg if a multi-storey was opened for Goodna and/or Wacol, it might enable the closure of Gailes altogether).
- You want to avoid providing for parking at stations in dense or built up areas (which is why the Toowong car park is so incongruous)
- Places like Springfield Central are currently largely low density around the station precinct, but will not always be - in fact it is probably the poster child for this.
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Offline James

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2016, 07:17:14 PM »
Just imagine how many are getting dropped off by car as well.   It doesnt have much walk up catchment.

Richlands station has practically zero walk-up catchment. There's about 20 houses within 800m walk of the station, the rest is acreage (primarily for animals).

In that area, all roads lead to Richlands. While an Ellen Grove station (depending on placement) may attract more patronage, really it is not needed right now, and there are cheaper ways to ease the parking situation at Richlands. What is needed is a 460 FUZ. At the very least, 460 services meeting every train from Richlands to Heathwood. Ideally we'd see a reformed 460 which runs to either Mt Ommaney or Indro - and if to Indro, performs some kind of secondary function within Jindalee (e.g. covers areas not covered by a CentenaryGlider), but that is just me playing network planner.

I know a number of people who live out that way, and the consensus on the 460 seems to be similar to that in the rest of the western suburbs (west of Indro) - the route is unreliable, infrequent and often doesn't connect with the train. Consequence: People use the 100 BUZ or drive. Way to go BT. :fp:
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline mufreight

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2016, 08:51:21 PM »
Well James you need to revisit the Richlands area, within the 800 metres there would now be better than 250 occupied houses with another 250 + houses under construction.
A developer has either purchased or taken options on most of the land available within 1km on the southern side of the line in proximity to the proposed EllenGrove station site.
There is no doubt that the station at EllenGrove should have been built when the line was extended to Springfield.
The parking at Wacol, Darra, Gailes, Goodna and Redbank is now getting parked out to a greater extent than prior to the opening of the line to Richlands.
There is no doubt that EllenGrove should have been built but there is a most pressing need for it to be built now.


Offline Gazza

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2016, 09:05:19 PM »
The question is, what gets you more for $20 million?

-An additional train station?

-Or $20 million worth of car parking (either at Richlands, or spread across the surrounding stations?)

If the station is justified purely on Richlands being parked out, then clearly the cheaper option, and the one that preserves line speeds is adding more parks for Richlands.

If we accept in this area the Perth approach of people driving to the station en-masse, then they can all drive to Richlands right? Since the road network in the area converges there, and has the road upgrades already in place to deal with peak hour flows in/out of the car park.

Buses can be fixed by shortening the 460 to Indro, and increasing frequency in peak to meet all trains.

****

There are two logical sites for an Ellen Grove station, if it were done.

One is on Waterford Rd, but this is only 1.5km from Richlands, which is too close, so ill rule that one out.

Julie Rd/Roxwell St is the other option which is better in terms of serving southern forest lakes, and being on the road between Carole Park and Forest Lake village (463 and 543 buses ply this route) , but would be a bastard to build because the line is on the viaduct at that point.

This is not me trying to be argumentative or anything, but think of it this way.
If this were a parallel universe, and I was in foaming mode and drawing fantasy train lines in Google Earth, i doubt I would have plotted one at Ellen Grove.

Offline petey3801

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 09:33:22 PM »
Planned Ellen Grove station site is here:
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/27%C2%B036'56.9%22S+152%C2%B056'36.4%22E/@-27.6158064,152.9427154,322m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Signals have been set up ready for it.

Personally, from a purely selfish driver point of view, I don't want it to be built, as I enjoy the longer, fast section of track on the occasion that high speed units run on it!
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Offline Gazza

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2016, 09:36:14 PM »
Ugh, why would they put a station site halfway between two main roads? It means any feeder buses have to a massive deviation to drop of passengers.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2016, 02:58:15 AM »
Planned Ellen Grove station site is here:
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/27%C2%B036'56.9%22S+152%C2%B056'36.4%22E/@-27.6158064,152.9427154,322m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Signals have been set up ready for it.

Personally, from a purely selfish driver point of view, I don't want it to be built, as I enjoy the longer, fast section of track on the occasion that high speed units run on it!

Ha Ha Petey.  Reminds me of some of my Army days in the Field Hospital (bit like a MASH unit) we had a marvellous time when we didn't have patients .. lol   bit like those pesky passengers wanting to get on a train  :P 

Ellen Grove will have local feeders. Getting into Richlands is a mess at peak. I would expect a significant kiss n' ride at Ellen Grove.  It is actually easy to get to from most of Forest Lake.  No doubt it will come and will be great for Carole Park as well.  Was a nice touch putting in the signals.  The basic earthworks are there for the station as well.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2016, 02:59:23 AM »
Well James you need to revisit the Richlands area, within the 800 metres there would now be better than 250 occupied houses with another 250 + houses under construction.
A developer has either purchased or taken options on most of the land available within 1km on the southern side of the line in proximity to the proposed EllenGrove station site.
There is no doubt that the station at EllenGrove should have been built when the line was extended to Springfield.
The parking at Wacol, Darra, Gailes, Goodna and Redbank is now getting parked out to a greater extent than prior to the opening of the line to Richlands.
There is no doubt that EllenGrove should have been built but there is a most pressing need for it to be built now.

Yep. MBRL over-stationed, Springfield Central under-stationed.  This is Queensland! 

Big moves on at Ellen Grove ... good to be on the pace!
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Offline red dragin

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2016, 07:58:23 AM »
Yep. MBRL over-stationed, Springfield Central under-stationed.  This is Queensland! 

Kallangur should have just been an access road alongside the railway from Goodfellows road into murrumba downs station car park. I think the rest are ok.

I loved the long smooth run out to Springfield when I took the little bloke out to greet the ARHS steam train.

Offline Old Northern Road

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2016, 08:22:55 AM »
990 boardings for a station with 650 car parks is pretty bad. If a new station in Sydney or Perth was used by less than a 1000 people per day they would consider it a complete failure. By comparison Macquarie University station is used by over 10,000 people per day and I don't think it has any car parks.

The only reason I see to build Ellen Grove would be if they have plans to build higher density housing around the station in the near future. Otherwise just do the very un-Brisbane thing of providing decent feeder buses to Richlands

Offline Old Northern Road

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2016, 08:24:54 AM »
Yep. MBRL over-stationed, Springfield Central under-stationed.  This is Queensland! 

Kallangur should have just been an access road alongside the railway from Goodfellows road into murrumba downs station car park. I think the rest are ok.

I loved the long smooth run out to Springfield when I took the little bloke out to greet the ARHS steam train.
Disagree. Murrumba Downs is the station that should have been left out and possibly Mango Hill East. Even if they had to build multi-story car parks at Kallangur and Mango Hill it probably would have been cheaper than building those extra stations.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2016, 08:26:21 AM »
This is a very frustrating situation. Bus Reform!

Lines like this are best set up like Perth if they cannot get the hi density within the walk up zone.

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2016, 08:33:08 AM »
Richlands could easily have much higher patronage if proper feeder buses existed and had a span of hours that people can actually rely on.

Same goes for Springfield generally.  Ellen Grove will be built eventually, but is a useful hook to get the bus issues up.

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Offline tazzer9

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2016, 09:24:27 AM »
990 boardings for a station with 650 car parks is pretty bad. If a new station in Sydney or Perth was used by less than a 1000 people per day they would consider it a complete failure. By comparison Macquarie University station is used by over 10,000 people per day and I don't think it has any car parks.

The only reason I see to build Ellen Grove would be if they have plans to build higher density housing around the station in the near future. Otherwise just do the very un-Brisbane thing of providing decent feeder buses to Richlands

Its comparing apples to oranges.
Macquarie university for example is in a much higher density area.   Services a very large university.   Has more services per day with far better connections to other lines.  Its also in sydney were people are happy to use public transport.  Its in a high business area.
Perth have bus rail interchange and generally have higher density around stations.
Richlands is essentially in the middle of nowhere and services those not in the immediate station vicinity.  It is also on the springfield line which is a businessman commuter type only railway.  hence the high number of trains in the peak flow but dismal in all other times.

Offline QLDBUS

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2016, 11:24:29 AM »
couriermail-> http://www.couriermail.com.au/realestate/news/brisbane-qld/developers-ausbuild-and-penfold-property-group-purchase-final-land-parcels-around-forest-lake-for-new-residential-estates/news-story/4a966243f340bcedb6e3da8c8429d9cf

theres still a lot of land available at Pallara, Heathwood, Forest Lake and Durak which have already been planned to build on so it only makes sense to add ellen grove in as the same time you add in Brookwater and Redbank Plains Station

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2016, 02:44:17 PM »
Then again there's this pearler.  PT isn't the only thing Brisbane City mucks up.

http://www.domain.com.au/news/richlands-development-flagged-as-blueprint-of-what-not-to-do-20160411-gnzp5o/
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2016, 03:37:58 PM »
^  friends of my daughter lived in a new town house at Richlands for a while.  It is all a bit weird for sure ..

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2016, 03:54:13 PM »
I went past Richlands down Progress Road a short time ago.  It is very busy the road system at Progress Corner, it is a threatening environment to approach Richlands station by foot in some ways.  It is a car centric dominant environment and getting worse all the time.

Another big cluster fuk basically.   The former work site is still vacant.  I thought the council was going to build a library and offices on the site.  Maybe they lost interest ...

Ellen Grove station will be a great relief to many I am sure.

For those who don't know, Richlands was not the initial planned route for the Springfield railway.  Originally it was going to branch off between Oxley and Darra, roughly opposite Pannard Corner, over looked by my house at Darra ( now my daughters).  One of the reasons I purchased that house actually .. lol.

It was going to then go under the Ippy car park and onwards to Inala / Forest Lake.  It would have much more accessible to both those locations. The line would have then ended up much the same to Springfield.   There was a group of nimbys that basically lead to it being shifted further west and its now more isolated location with respect to the population concentrations at Inala and Forest Lake.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 04:03:01 PM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2016, 04:48:18 PM »
And the hard copy of the lead post .. with vox pop not on line ...

From the South West / Springfield News 13th April 2016 page 5

Push for new train station

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Offline kaykayt

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2016, 09:21:37 PM »
Here are some pics of the proposed QR Network a few years ago. The second link shows Springfield line taking the Forest Lake route.

It's one picture broken (in halves) so 2 links  :co3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxspi5rgt8c4fdl/Photo%2013-04-2016%2C%209%2017%2022%20PM.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz5b3q0quhjqzs1/Photo%2013-04-2016%2C%209%2017%2025%20PM.png?dl=0
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 09:31:39 PM by kaykayt »

Offline kaykayt

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2016, 09:27:02 PM »
^^Those planned dates were/are totally on time

Offline James

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2016, 12:02:59 AM »
I went past Richlands down Progress Road a short time ago.  It is very busy the road system at Progress Corner, it is a threatening environment to approach Richlands station by foot in some ways.  It is a car centric dominant environment and getting worse all the time.

This is the main point I was trying to get at. You drive through there and there is no shade, the environment is mostly made up of concrete, bitumen and some token greenery and you have cars coming on/off a motorway and it requires crossing 4-lane roads with traffic going at 70km/h.

Sure, if you stuck up some medium-rise buildings or shop fronts in the immediate vicinity, it would create a more welcoming environment, but right now there's not much there and it feels very unwelcoming, particularly in the heat of summer.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2016, 03:47:55 AM »
Here are some pics of the proposed QR Network a few years ago. The second link shows Springfield line taking the Forest Lake route.

It's one picture broken (in halves) so 2 links  :co3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxspi5rgt8c4fdl/Photo%2013-04-2016%2C%209%2017%2022%20PM.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz5b3q0quhjqzs1/Photo%2013-04-2016%2C%209%2017%2025%20PM.png?dl=0

Thanks, great!  Shows coming off at Darra, earlier it was planned to come off between Oxley and Darra but was changed obviously.  Certainly has the Forest Lake planned route though. 
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2017, 07:25:19 AM »
https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/933446128405684224
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
  Bob's Blog

Offline ozbob

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Re: Ellen Grove Railway Station
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2017, 07:35:27 AM »
https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/933448674004234240
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
  Bob's Blog

 

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“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan