Airtrain

[mufreight]

one could perhaps draw the conclusion that if the meeting between Airtrain management and the Minister that there was no beneficial outcome and that it is beyond the ability of the Ministerial spin doctors to dress this garbage result up to smell like roses.
Had there been any positive result we would have already been smothered in spin as a further distraction from the failings of the current Government and Transport Minister.

[#Metro]

one could perhaps draw the conclusion that if the meeting between Airtrain management and the Minister that there was no beneficial outcome and that it is beyond the ability of the Ministerial spin doctors to dress this garbage result up to smell like roses.
Had there been any positive result we would have already been smothered in spin as a further distraction from the failings of the current Government and Transport Minister.

A follow-up perhaps? ---> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4702.msg37277#msg37277

[somebody]

one could perhaps draw the conclusion that if the meeting between Airtrain management and the Minister that there was no beneficial outcome and that it is beyond the ability of the Ministerial spin doctors to dress this garbage result up to smell like roses.
Had there been any positive result we would have already been smothered in spin as a further distraction from the failings of the current Government and Transport Minister.

That is one possibility, and the most likely in a normal jurisdiction.  However, you may have noticed that there is a lot of secrecy in QLD, so it is possible that there was a positive outcome but they aren't telling anyone until immediately before new services are put on.

[somebody]

Thursday is drawing to a close and no word of this week's meeting between the Minister and Airtrain.  If we don't hear anything tomorrow, would you think there should be a media release on the weekend or next week, ozbob?  I am concerned this issue is going to die otherwise.

See what happens ..

My thinking would be if they are doing something we don't have anything to lose by raising it again.  Perhaps early next week?

[mufreight]

With this current incompetent and duplicit government anything is possible but my money would be on nothing positive has been decided on either frequency or fare structure and the spin doctors are working overtime to justify this further failure of Minister and Government, be nice to be proven wrong for a change but if there is no ministerial statement by the end of this week we can take it as read that it is another failed gab-fest.
   :bi

[#Metro]

Guess what I saw today in the CBD!!!

Brisbane Airtrain

4 trains per hour

(during peak hour)

If you can't fix the frequency, fix up the PR!!!
Let's not forget how useless catching Airtrain in peak hour when there is no room to fit your luggage with
crushed peak hour commuters.

[Stillwater]

If an agreement has been reached between the State Government and Airtrain, I suspect that the reason we have not heard anything about it is that whatever the arrangement, it will have to be checked over by the departmental legal people.  Alternatively, if agreement was not reached, likewise the Minister would be wise to check that whatever course of action she is contemplating fits with the legalities.

[somebody]

Brisbane Airtrain

4 trains per hour

(during peak hour)

These signs have been there for ages.  It is annoying that they are advertising this while leaving the 5:02pm-5:30pm southbound gap unfilled.

[#Metro]

Airtrain issue has not quietly gone away, tourism is up in arms about it.
"Constantly reviewing" is not a solution. The fundamental problem is that Airtrain will only run profit-only services, because it cannot see the other benefits on its balance sheet like a government would and the ridership is not high enough under private operation for all night service.. As a private company, it cannot justify the expenditure of funds on services that do not have an acceptable rate of return/profit.

No amount of talking is going to get around this fundamental fact! It would be like as useful as meeting with the weather bureau to try and change the colour of the sky from blue to something else- It's not going to happen! Private companies are not charities, they are there to make MONEY. This isn't Airtrain's fault, all private companies act this way. No, it is the government which hasn't put in the cash to put more services on, and set up the arrangement in the first place.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/marketing-chief-joins-airtrain-chorus-20101026-171v9.html

Marketing chief joins Airtrain chorus

Calls for increased Airtrain services to cater for growing tourism demand have been boosted by another high-profile proponent.

Brisbane Marketing chief executive John Aitken said he had been in discussion with Airtrain management over the frequency of its trains to Brisbane Airport.

Airtrain is a private company providing trains to Brisbane Airport from early morning until 8pm. Airtrain chief executive Chris Basche earlier this month told brisbanetimes.com.au it was not viable to provide airport trains after 8pm and needs more than 40 passengers to break even.

[ozbob]

Indeed ..

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Marketing chief joins Airtrain chorus

Marketing chief joins Airtrain chorus
Tony Moore
October 27, 2010 - 6:44AM

Brisbane Marketing chief executive John Aitken wants to see more Airtrain services to the airport.

Calls for increased Airtrain services to cater for growing tourism demand have been boosted by another high-profile proponent.

Brisbane Marketing chief executive John Aitken said he had been in discussion with Airtrain management over the frequency of its trains to Brisbane Airport.

Airtrain is a private company providing trains to Brisbane Airport from early morning until 8pm. Airtrain chief executive Chris Basche earlier this month told brisbanetimes.com.au it was not viable to provide airport trains after 8pm and needs more than 40 passengers to break even.

Mr Aitken said although Airtrain was meeting 93 per cent of flight arrivals, there was still plenty of room for improvement.

"There is a certain time of the night when you would have to question catching a train," he said.

"It is late at night, it's dark and you don't know where you are going and the customers will tend to default by catching a taxi."

Brisbane Marketing research has found domestic and international tourism contributed $4.53 billion to the Brisbane economy each year.

Airtrain has responded to criticism that it does not meet the 30 to 40 flights which arrive in Brisbane after 8pm, by saying it is continually reviewing the situation.

Mr Aitken said Brisbane Marketing wanted a long-term future for Airtrain.

"I have had recent conversations with Airtrain and as far as I am concerned Airtrain operates as a commercial business and the first thing I want to do is make sure it is sustainable and is there for the long haul," he said.

Brisbane Airtrain chairman Mike Pelly earlier this month said Airtrain had added six extra services in the last 18 months and would look at extra services when passenger demand dictated.

Mr Aitken declined to answer when asked if the state government should take over Airtrain.

Airtrain say they have recently asked Queensland Rail to provide extra trains.

[ozbob]

Published South West News 27th October 2010

Letter to the editor

No Airtrain after 8pm is a joke

[#Metro]

So, what happened? Did anything happen? 

[mufreight]

Undoubtedly quite a lot, Minister Nolan had discussions with the management of Airtrain, enjoyed at least a cup of coffee or perhaps even dinner and expended a lot of hot air, Oh service improvements or the provision of alternative or supplementary services, more hot air, a potential well doctored and spin oriented media release lacking any substance or integrity, but nothing else as expected.

[somebody]

Undoubtedly quite a lot, Minister Nolan had discussions with the management of Airtrain, enjoyed at least a cup of coffee or perhaps even dinner and expended a lot of hot air, Oh service improvements or the provision of alternative or supplementary services, more hot air, a potential well doctored and spin oriented media release lacking any substance or integrity, but nothing else as expected.

What release?

[colinw]

Deathly silence on Airtrain.  I think the minister & Airtrain are hoping the issue will quietly go away.

I'm flying out of Brisbane at 11:45PM tonight.  No Airtrain for me. 

[ozbob]

As my Grandma used to say, patience is a virtue ...

[Emmie]

I flew in from Newcastle on Thursday afternoon, and got the train.  I was talking to an American visitor on the flight, and advised him to get the train, as he was staying at the hotel right above Central Station. But looking at it through a visitor's eyes, the signage to the train - at least from the Domestic terminal - is appalling. There are signs to the car parks, and the taxis, but not to the escalators that take you to the train station. Certainly, after I got in, I never saw him again and imagine he took a taxi. 

[mufreight]

As my Grandma used to say, patience is a virtue ...

But patients die waiting for Queensland Health       So do Airtrain passengers after 8pm

[somebody]

Emmie, Welcome to Brisbane!  You'll find the same thing at South Bank, where it isn't entirely clear where you should walk to find the bus station from the train.  The road system also has the same limitations everywhere.

It is a valid point though.

[ozbob]

 

[Emmie]

Emmie, Welcome to Brisbane!  You'll find the same thing at South Bank, where it isn't entirely clear where you should walk to find the bus station from the train.  The road system also has the same limitations everywhere...

Agree entirely, Somebody. South Bank (and South Brisbane) are the pits, and both are stops that handle a lot of tourists who don't know where to go.

[colinw]

I caught a flight out of Brisbane at 11:45 PM last night.   Brisbane International was busy even at that hour, with flights departing right through to 2:50AM.  Arriving at the airport at about 9:45 PM my taxi had to queue to drop me off at the terminal!

We need trains!  I'd have caught it if it was available, instead I dropped $70 on my corporate AMEX for a taxi. 

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Passenger fury over airport congestion trap

Passenger fury over airport congestion trap
Dan Nancarrow
November 15, 2010

A peak-time traffic bottleneck at Brisbane Domestic Airport, blamed for causing some passengers to miss flights, is likely to continue for up to fourteen months as terminal upgrades continue.

The airport congestion is being blamed on the construction of a new short term car park, part of the Domestic Terminal Access Project which aims, in the long term, to reduce traffic problems by separating cars and pedestrians, as well as cars and taxis.

But the long term solution has been causing temporary pain for travellers who have complained of missing flights while stuck in traffic metres away from the terminal.

Brisbane Airport Corporation spokesman Jim Carden said an increased amount of people were choosing to pick up and drop off passengers rather than park at the temporary car parks located at either end of the terminal.

The situation has created congestion on road three, where taxis mix with private cars.

"We obviously regret the inconvenience in this build stage, and ask people to note that the airport precinct, including the entrance at the Gateway Motorway, are works in progress, so please be patient, allow a few extra minutes to avoid the stress of a near-miss, and visit our website for any parking traffic information," Mr Carden said.

The congestion has proven a major problem for some commuters.

Brisbane resident Struan Robertson said he had missed one flight because of traffic problems, while his girlfriend has missed two morning flights returning to Sydney.

"I would drop her off at the airport in the morning and it would only take us 15-20 minutes to get to the airport from the city," he said.

"But we were stuck for 20 minutes to half an hour at the set of traffic lights just queueing up to get through."

Taxi drivers say the access road into the airport, where four lanes merge to two, has become a congestion trap in busy periods, infuriating passengers.

Drivers have had many people getting out of their cabs well before the terminal and running to their flights because of the delays.

They believe the traffic is worse on weekday mornings with major traffic problems on Mondays, specifically between 7am and 8am.

Another factor in the growth of traffic is the increase in travellers using the airport.

Brisbane's domestic terminal recently recorded its busiest month in history, with 1.43 million passengers passing through the terminal in October.

Despite the upgrade being more than a year away from completion, BAC is looking into ways to reduce current congestion.

Mr Carden said one option was to allow taxis to drop off passengers in the second road, currently used by group transport vehicles such as limousines and shuttle buses.

This would reduce traffic in road three by separating taxis and private cars.

Taxi Council of Queensland chief executive Blair Davies said the organisation was working with BAC to streamline taxi drop-offs.

"We were aware there were going to be various difficulties with the construction of the short term car park at the airport but the present difficulties are the price you pay for progress," he said.

"We are very much engaged with the airport and are expecting to solve these issues like we solved the problems with the cab ranks."

What a farce, ramp up rail!!

[#Metro]

Yes, that high capacity motorway is just going to shove more cars more quickly at the weakest link- the terminal itself.
People in cars will just get to the congestion queue much quicker.

[WTN]

Yes, that high capacity motorway is just going to shove more cars more quickly at the weakest link- the terminal itself.
People in cars will just get to the congestion queue much quicker.

And wait in the queue longer. I can see upgrades in the line after layout rearrangements become full.

[somebody]

As my Grandma used to say, patience is a virtue ...

Still nothing released.

[mufreight]

This has dragged on for long enough so when is Transport Minister Nolan going to release the outcome of her discussions with Airtrain management on both fares and frequency and what has become of the proposed alternative bus service to cover those times before the commencement of and after the last Airtrain services.  It seems that there is provision for the Minister to contract other service providers to fill in the gaps if Airtrain does not provide reasonable services os why not Minister?

Airtrain management are just not with it ...
From the Brisbanetimes

Call for Airtrain contract to be revisited
Tony Moore
October 14, 2010 - 5:00AM
Research fellow at Griffith University's Urban Research Program Jago Dodson, who has written about the private Airtrain service in a transport study called A Climate for Growth, said their contract should be revisited.

Meanwhile, Transport Minister Rachel Nolan told brisbanetimes.com.au yesterday that commuters would have to wait until the "first quarter" of 2011 until the fare problems between Airtrain and Translink were resolved.
For more than two years, commuters using the Go Card and travelling to Brisbane Airport on the Airtrain have paid up to $5.70 more than they should have.
"There is a extension which involves a technical fix that becomes possible when Translink makes some back of house changes to their ticketing system next year," Ms Nolan said.

So, what happened? Did anything happen?  

"So while it is not a done deal - that technical fix still needs to come through - I am hopeful that this can be resolved in the new year.

So, what happened? Did anything happen?  

Undoubtedly quite a lot, Minister Nolan had discussions with the management of Airtrain, enjoyed at least a cup of coffee or perhaps even dinner and expended a lot of hot air, Oh service improvements or the provision of alternative or supplementary services, more hot air, a potential well doctored and spin oriented media release lacking any substance or integrity, but nothing else as expected.

What release?

Deathly silence on Airtrain.  I think the minister & Airtrain are hoping the issue will quietly go away.

I'm flying out of Brisbane at 11:45PM tonight.  No Airtrain for me.  

The silence from the Minister for do nothing about anything on this issue has been deafining to this time so when will this incompetent disburser of spin give a meaningful response on this matter  

[Stillwater]

Even Grandma's patience would have been exhausted by now!

[#Metro]

I think Grandma would be waving her walking stick very pointedly by now!

[mufreight]

I think Grandma would be waving her walking stick very pointedly by now!

Your Grandma is more restrained than mine, mine has a shooting stick out now, approaching 100+ and can't wait for the election. 

[#Metro]

Your Grandma is more restrained than mine, mine has a shooting stick out now, approaching 100+ and can't wait for the election.

That's because they got a complimentary muffin and water bottle.

[ozbob]

Interesting article ..

Sydney Morning Herald --> Airport price gouging: are their days numbered?

[#Metro]

Private sector works well when there is competition. The flipside is, if competition is weak, absent or there are elements of captivity present, or regulation is absent/weak then gouging/cost minimisation and monopolistic behaviour will emerge.

The construction of a rail link to Avalon is therefore a good thing IMHO. Avalon isn't fancy, but it is cheap.
The extension of the rail line to Coolangatta might have a similar (but weaker) effect.

The thing about the road pricing scheme is that it is a network whose main competitors are Public Transport (I can see potential for a headache develop here- would there be incentive for governments to hold back on PT projects so that more $$$ can be made on the motorways side of things?) and free government roads.

In some ways, this looks like the end of the free road era. Not only will petrol prices go up but newer routes will all have to be paid for being driven on PLUS a profit margin.

[Stillwater]

The CAMCOS corridor, now on the never-never, is planned to pass the Sunshine Coast Airport, which is to have $250 million spent on an east-west runway capable of handling planes of low-cost international carriers.

http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=council-news&stid=0&id=8653
http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=council-news&stid=0&id=8391

[#Metro]

Will it just pass it or go to it? I always wondered about how it would cross the river...

[Stillwater]

It will go to the airport, but, eventually is planned to go to Noosa.  For the engineer in you, have a look here: http://www.arup.com.au/camcos/docs/final/ch3.pdf

Re how it gets over the river, look at 3.4.4

Don't hold your breath that CAMCOS will be built anytime soon.  CAMCOS is dangled tantalisingly before the eyes of Sunshine Coast residents when, in reality, its long delay means that duplication to Nambour is a cheaper,  interim option.  The Catch 22 is that the state government baulks at that too, because it would prefer to put its money to CAMCOS.  A first stage to Caloundra (through the controversial Caloundra South development) is not that exciting, for reasons discussed in the ARUP report.

The common element to both Nambour upgrade and CAMCOS is Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication, which should proceed asap.

[Stillwater]

But here is the absolute tragedy about how this state goes about its planning!  In order to get from Maroochydore to the Sunshine Coast Airport, CAMCOS would require this to happen.

Quote from the ARUP report:

"The existing Main Road bridge would require reconstruction to allow for the route and the future widened motorway. This would involve construction of a longer structure at the same level."

[#Metro]

Interesting- maroochydore is not on the way. There is a rail triangle there instead (similar to Park Road).

[Stillwater]

In addition to a reconstruction of the Maroochydore bridge, ARUP says CAMCOS will branch off the NCL in this fashion:

"Rail operational and future planning needs necessitate the turnout to be approximately 500-800m north of the existing Beerwah Station, depending upon the North Coast Line upgrade details and need for crossovers. At this point the road is parallel to and within approximately
50m of the North Coast Line. This results in a high skew crossing, and local realignment of the road may be required to achieve a more practical skew angle. This may involve some encroachment into the adjacent state owned DPI forestry land."

And guess what?  The state government has just sold off this land as part of the assets sales.  I bet London to a brick that some clod didn't exclude this strip of land from the sale process, so that we (the taxpayers) will eventually have to buy the land back (having owned it previously) in order for CAMCOS to proceed.

[#Metro]

Ok, we might continue this discussion in the CAMCOS/SC thread