Airtrain

[#Metro]

Why don't they increase frequency? They are ignoring value of time.

Uber is there in minutes.

[JimmyP]

Why don't they increase frequency? They are ignoring value of time.

Uber is there in minutes.

Because Airtrain are a private, for profit, non-subsidised company who want to make completely sure the new services will increase, not decrease their profits?

[Gazza]

Yeah, cutting fares probably won't have much of a negative impact on margins, but certainly running higher frequency would be quite a significant cost for them.

[AnonymouslyBad]

^ Yeah, but it probably won't have much of a positive impact on patronage either. Uber (etc.) isn't remotely cheap for the airport to CBD trip. The issue is not price - it's convenience, visibility and ease of use.

If Airtrain is $15, and people are instead catching an Uber for $45 - which they are - the reason is that the Airtrain service sucks. Reducing the Airtrain cost to $14, $12 or even $10 doesn't really change this equation. Customers are budget conscious, but a limit exists: there's nowhere in the world I'd step out of an airport and be willing to wait 29 minutes for a train. As for large groups, forget it, they're always better off carpooling and it's as simple as that.

The pace of change in this area is rapid. I doubt a single person wearing a suit at Airtrain actually understands what's needed to be relevant in the 2020s. 15 minutes all day or they're bankrupt within 5 years IMO.

[#Metro]

^ Exactly! The waiting time 30 min can be longer than the journey itself 20 min.

Thank you for posting this!

[ozbob]

^ & ^^

Nailed it AB ..



https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1215437338995638272

It took me around the same time to go from BNE to Goodna station than it did to fly from MEL to BNE on the Dreamliner 787-9 ( we jagged it due to a re-positioning of the aircraft) .. 

[#Metro]

Clearly we need HSR to Goodna!   

[ozbob]

Clearly we need HSR to Goodna!   

Ha!  And light rail up Queen St. 

But it is annoying watching the Ippy service depart as the service ex BNE train arrives at the transfer station.   

Makes it harder than it otherwise should be. 

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

13th January 2020

Brisbane Airtrain: Price vs Convenience

RAIL Back on Track welcomes new fare options for the Brisbane Airtrain (1).

However, we think that for the Airtrain to remain competitive against Uber and like services it is essential to increase train frequency to at least 15 minutes from 7am - 7pm.

A RAIL Back On Track member recently commented in part:

" ... Uber (etc.) isn't remotely cheap for the airport to CBD trip. The issue is not price - it's convenience, visibility and ease of use.
If Airtrain is $15, and people are instead catching an Uber for $45 ... Reducing the Airtrain cost to $14, $12 or even $10 doesn't really change this equation. Customers are budget conscious, but a limit exists: there's nowhere in the world I'd step out of an airport and be willing to wait 29 minutes for a train. As for large groups, forget it, they're always better off carpooling and it's as simple as that. ... " (2).


Photograph R Dow 10th January 2020

Catch the plane, long wait for the train!  The poor service frequency is compounded by poor follow on connections with many other services on the Citytrain network.  For example, the Airtrain is timetabled to arrive at Central as the train for Ipswich departs.  This means another 29 minute wait for passengers transferring to an Ipswich service.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. Brisbane Airtrain launches cheaper fares for pre-booked tickets, group tickets
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-airtrain-launches-cheaper-fares-for-prebooked-tickets-group-tickets/news-story/25c0e9f5178e617b10f731a7ef909155

2. Re: Airtrain timetable - articles and discussion
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4582.msg232200#msg232200

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

====

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1216475192563625989

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

13th January 2020

Brisbane Airtrain: Price vs Convenience

RAIL Back on Track welcomes new fare options for the Brisbane Airtrain (1).

However, we think that for the Airtrain to remain competitive against Uber and like services it is essential to increase train frequency to at least 15 minutes from 7am - 7pm.

A RAIL Back On Track member recently commented in part:

" ... Uber (etc.) isn't remotely cheap for the airport to CBD trip. The issue is not price - it's convenience, visibility and ease of use.
If Airtrain is $15, and people are instead catching an Uber for $45 ... Reducing the Airtrain cost to $14, $12 or even $10 doesn't really change this equation. Customers are budget conscious, but a limit exists: there's nowhere in the world I'd step out of an airport and be willing to wait 29 minutes for a train. As for large groups, forget it, they're always better off carpooling and it's as simple as that. ... " (2).


Photograph R Dow 10th January 2020

Catch the plane, long wait for the train!  The poor service frequency is compounded by poor follow on connections with many other services on the Citytrain network.  For example, the Airtrain is timetabled to arrive at Central as the train for Ipswich departs.  This means another 29 minute wait for passengers transferring to an Ipswich service.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. Brisbane Airtrain launches cheaper fares for pre-booked tickets, group tickets
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-airtrain-launches-cheaper-fares-for-prebooked-tickets-group-tickets/news-story/25c0e9f5178e617b10f731a7ef909155

2. Re: Airtrain timetable - articles and discussion
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4582.msg232200#msg232200

[verbatim9]

This is a great initiative, but a spokesperson for Brisbane Airport late last year said that there were no plans to increase frequency. But they stopped short of not stating the possibility of extending operating hours.

The finalised Masterplan is due in a month.

[ozbob]

They are going to have to increase frequency, particularly when second runway is in operation.

One of the problems at present with the 30 minute frequency is the one hour between services when a service is cancelled.  There has been a growing issue with a loss of reliability.  It was once rare to see an Airtrain service cancelled, it happens regularly now.

They could run trains Darra <> Bne alternating with  the Gold Coast <> Bne services.

Ipswich trains could run express pattern Darra - Indroo - Milton - Roma St out of peak too.

Quad tracks, time they were used properly.

[ozbob]

Facebook ...

^ going off!  Obviously punters want a better service ...

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1216532208963293185

[verbatim9]

They are going to have to increase frequency, particularly when second runway is in operation.

One of the problems at present with the 30 minute frequency is the one hour between services when a service is cancelled.  There has been a growing issue with a loss of reliability.  It was once rare to see an Airtrain service cancelled, it happens regularly now.

They could run trains Darra <> Bne alternating with  the Gold Coast <> Bne services.

Ipswich trains could run express pattern Darra - Indroo - Milton - Roma St out of peak too.

Quad tracks, time they were used properly.

True but do you think they will hold out until Cross River Rail is fully up an running and a new operational network model is in place?

I have a feeling they will fill the void with extra or a new bus to Skygate with a shuttle transfer in the interim.

Re New runway: There are some new scheduled flights in the pipeline for this year but not many. It will take a few years before there is a noticeable difference.

[ozbob]

Time we stopped accepting mediocre service levels. 

As some have commented on our Facebook post " An embarrassment in our 'World Class City' "

[ozbob]

It is all a great big cluster-fuk.

The earliest you can get to BNE by rail on a week day is 6.28am if you are on the Ipswich line.  The first down service misses the Airtrain service by 2 minutes ... 

[verbatim9]

The early morning and late night services are inadequate. They could provide an earlier start to services in the morning with a possible interim early service for better connectivity. Also for late night services extend the Airtrain to 23:04, one hour later. (2 more services).

[Gazza]

I think its worth having later air train services, but there is no point having any earlier ones until we get more public transport running in the early morning.

Already, the first airport train leaves Roma at 4:27am, so only people in walking distance of stations can use it.

The first Ipswich doesn't get in till 5:33
The first Cleveland doesn't get in till 5:39
(So therefore the first airtrain connection is at 5:57)

The first Caboolture train doesn't reach EJ till 4:46 (So misses connection with first airtrain by 2 mins)

The first blueGlider on a weekday doesn't reach central till 5:2

The first maroonGlider doesn't reach roma st till 5:24

The first 111 gets into Roma St at 5:13

etc etc

So earlier airtrains only help passengers boarding between Roma St and EJ.

[verbatim9]

True maybe just 2 new  interim morning services and 2 late services until 23:04. Thus four new services.

[verbatim9]

Key initiatives over the next few years to improve Public Transport to the airport precinct, as per the Airport Masterplan.

[verbatim9]

Key initiatives over the next few years to improve Public Transport to the airport precinct, as per the Airport Masterplan.

The good news is it hasn't been signed off yet. Plus we are not aware of any amendments made to the plan? I guess it depends on how many submissions were received pertaining to the Ground Transport plan requesting  for amendments to be made?

[JimmyP]

This is a great initiative, but a spokesperson for Brisbane Airport late last year said that there were no plans to increase frequency. But they stopped short of not stating the possibility of extending operating hours.

The finalised Masterplan is due in a month.

They actually said the exact opposite:

"Airtrain also plans to expand the peak period frequency of trains - every 15 minutes - into the current non-peak period," he said.

Mr Basche said train services every 15 minutes were the "international benchmark".

.

While there is no timeline, the interest in increased frequemcy is there. However, once again, being a private, for profit company, they need to be sure the extra services will pay off. Just the same as the span of hours. There is pretty much zero point in adding any new services earlier in the morning. The first Airtrain service only misses the first two flights on a weekday morning, a 737 to Sydney and a 717 to Canberra. As well as has been said above, the first one or two Airtrain services already don't connect with most/any of the rest of the network, so no real point adding more in at this stage.
An extra couple in the evening wouldn't go astray, but they certainly won't make any momey. Airtrain will have to do the sums to see if offering another two late night trains will be offset by more people catching other services during the day who will be arriving back late enough to catch those extra late night services.

[#Metro]

Why doesn't Airtrain start running buses that connect to Toombul or the busway?

Let's face it, the service frequency is atrocious.

Contract BCC and tack it onto the end of the 369. Charge a penalty fare on touch off.

[ozbob]

Luggage makes the use of route buses problematical.

Airtrain is good in the sense that it is a train.  The problems are the poor connections and frequency.  Airtrain management are well aware of those issues. 

A SkyBus like operation would certainly show up the deficiencies with the rail system.  The MEL SkyBus works because of two fundamental reasons.  Dedicated buses fit for purpose running every 5 to 10 minutes. When I travel to Melbourne it is rare to wait more than 2 or 3 minutes for the SkyBus.  I have made it to Murrumbeena in well less than one hour of landing in Melbourne. That includes waiting for luggage. Trains run every 10 minutes so it is no brainer stuff.

[techblitz]

Why doesn't Airtrain start running buses that connect to Toombul or the busway?

Let's face it, the service frequency is atrocious.

Contract BCC and tack it onto the end of the 369. Charge a penalty fare on touch off.

you are on repeat again @metro.....either do what gazza asked...contact council....or quit with the repeats which come off as a rather irritating attempt to get other members onboard...

[red dragin]

We looked at AirTrain for two friends to get from Mango Hill to Domestic by lunchtime today, rather than me taking time off work. $28.00 each!

I'm only on $30/hr. Cheaper for me to take time off unpaid and drive them, them pay me, than catch the train.

[techblitz]

9/10 conversations I hear either out and about or online regarding the airtrain are complaints about the cost.....not the frequency.....the cost.....it was the first issue that needed addressing...or else their reputation would have become too negative...pushing more and more into rideshare where cost matters eg: backpackers on a tight budget..

[ozbob]

SkyBus is the same price essentially as Airtrain.  People don't mind paying if there is the service.   The problem for Airtrain is it is perceived as not good value for money with the poor service levels.

[verbatim9]

Fair enough charging full price during peak for 15min frequency, but It is a bit high though. As a compensation  offer for off peak and 30 min frequency an off peak fixed fare for the  Go card should be offered.  20% or 30% cheaper?

Ride share has surge pricing peak and off peak. If they are comparing fares to Ride Share? They should adopt the same.model peak pricing and off peak pricing.

[verbatim9]

There has been discussions in Sydney about the same thing in regards to their train travel prices to the Airport.

Consensus being around $20.00 is far too high for the average person's budget.

https://youtu.be/zTR3pf43prc

[ozbob]

Airtrain is $15 single if you pre-book.  Group of 4 $10 each.

I have often thought that if they do away with all the price variations and just make it $10 flat, children free. 

They would do very well.

[Gazza]

True maybe just 2 new  interim morning services and 2 late services until 23:04. Thus four new services.

Who would use the 2 morning services?

[Gazza]

Airtrain is $15 single if you pre-book.  Group of 4 $10 each.

I have often thought that if they do away with all the price variations and just make it $10 flat, children free. 

They would do very well.

Yeah, the whole notion of "booking" airtrain is silly. Navigating an online process to do that will never be as fast as a ticket machine or using go card.

If you could cut fares to $9 on go card, then that means 4 adults is cost competitive with a Taxi, and well and truly cheaper.

[verbatim9]

True maybe just 2 new  interim morning services and 2 late services until 23:04. Thus four new services.

Who would use the 2 morning services?

For timely connections. The corresponding inbound trains to those services can cater for peak demand from Eagle Junction to Roma Street possibly some stations beyond up.to Park Road or to Corinda/Darra?

[red dragin]

Airtrain is $15 single if you pre-book.  Group of 4 $10 each.

And there you go. As someone that read this thread, I still didn't realize that they could pre-book and save heaps, and just went through the Journey Planner for the timetable and fares.

I imagine the general public has even less idea.

[Gazza]

The corresponding inbound trains to those services can cater for peak demand from Eagle Junction to Roma Street

4am in the morning isn't peak.

[verbatim9]

The corresponding inbound trains to those services can cater for peak demand from Eagle Junction to Roma Street

4am in the morning isn't peak.

I was referring to Central departures between 6-7am. 4tph from 6 am instead of 7am. Two more later services with last service leaving Central at 10.30pm to cater for International departures and last service leaving Domestic at 11.04pm to cater for the last incoming domestic flights and the odd International. Thus 4 new services all up. Maybe 5 new services if extended to 11.34pm as last Domestic Station departure. That will cater for most arrivals and departures from 9pm.