Airtrain

[BrizCommuter]

Would be good to have extra services over peak periods. Annoying how you just miss it and then there's 30 minute wait.

20 minute frequency would be possible IMHO and would probably do the job. Slot the extra in as a Roma Street starter or tack it on to the end of a Bowen Hills terminator.

The stage 2 timetables are likely to be based around a 15/30 minute cycle.

The 30 min peak gaps are indeed a pain, and the Airtrain advertising stating that peak services are every 15 minutes is somewhat dubious.

[petey3801]

Worked the last train to/from the Airport this evening, rough sightings were:

Airport Bound: International: around 24 off, 0 on
                       Domestic: 1 off.

City/GC Bound: Domestic: 30 or so on
                         International: 7 off, 7 on.

Not bad loadings!

[ozbob]

^  the good thing is with later services it drives patronage on the earlier services significantly as there is more of  chance of getting a service should the plane be delayed, which is a chronic issue at BNE ...

[petey3801]

Agree on both counts. My counting of the pax boarding at Domestic could have been lower than reality as well, I was just going by the amount of people I saw while waiting to depart (which, being at the front, I could easily miss a number of people!).

I saw the 2058 departure ex Domestic arriving at Bowen Hills while I was waiting to take my train out there as well, and it was packed! I honestly couldn't believe just how many were on that train, it was better than peak! So the later services do seem to be going quite well.

[petey3801]

Did another run on the last Airport job this evening, rough figures counted:
Heading to the Airport: International - 9 off, 0 on
                                     Domestic - 2 off

Heading back to the City: Domestic - Roughly 40 on
                                         International - 11 on, 6 off.

Crossed the second last train at International on our way out to the Domestic, quite good loadings on that train (in excess of 100, would be my guess).

[petey3801]

Traveled as a pax to International on the first Airtrain this morning. 21 (incl. Me) onboard departing Bowen Hills with an unknown number boarding at Eagle Junction.

[petey3801]

After arriving back in to Brisbane 45mins late last night due to Brisbane ATC holding, I found myself on the last train from the Airport heading for the City. Counted approx 55 people on board ex Domestic. Didn't see how many off/on at International.

[ozbob]

Airtrain Domestic Station

[ozbob]

Airtrain International Station

[skippy]

Would be good to have extra services over peak periods. Annoying how you just miss it and then there's 30 minute wait.

20 minute frequency would be possible IMHO and would probably do the job. Slot the extra in as a Roma Street starter or tack it on to the end of a Bowen Hills terminator.

Airtrain announces additional services
22 October 2013

Airtrain today announces that an additional 70 train services per week will be introduced on the Airport line, commencing January 2014.

The additional Airtrain services will be weekday services and represent an increase of over 16% on the current capacity of the weekday timetable.

The train will now depart every fifteen minutes during the following periods:

from 7:30am until 10:30am in the morning peak;
from 3:00pm until 6:00pm in the afternoon peak; and
from 7:00pm to 9:00pm, to cater for additional evening demand.
This is a significant increase in the frequency of trains on the Airport line when compared to the current timetable.

The services will be introduced in line with changes to the Translink timetable commencing 20 January 2014.

Chief Operating Officer Neil Dickin stated "Brisbane Airport patrons recognise that Airtrain continues to be the most cost effective and reliable way to travel to and from Brisbane Airport. These additional services will reduce wait times significantly and further enhance the opportunity for residents, tourists and the business community to use the Airtrain service".

[Gazza]

To be fair, reckon it's a decent compromise for now. As was said at tonights CRG, "Airport" peak hour is different to the regular CBD peak hour, and a trip to the airport is definitely one where you aren't exactly going to turn up and go.

15 minute frequency all day would be a nice to have, but so long as they market to travellers when the frequent services are then that can capture a fair bit of the market.

[James]

To be fair, reckon it's a decent compromise for now. As was said at tonights CRG, "Airport" peak hour is different to the regular CBD peak hour, and a trip to the airport is definitely one where you aren't exactly going to turn up and go.

15 minute frequency all day would be a nice to have, but so long as they market to travellers when the frequent services are then that can capture a fair bit of the market.

To the contrary, outbound is most certainly turn-up-and-go. Going to the airport, one inevitably plans when one wishes to leave. Coming from the airport, it is very much turning up and waiting for the next service, because one can't really ask the customs officer to hurry up because you have an AirTrain to catch, or shout at the baggage handlers either.

[SurfRail]

50 services up and down each weekday under the new timetable.

To get 15 minute frequency all day long (ie within the present span of hours), another 19 services up and down would be required from Roma Street or Park Road. 

The line will run more often at 15 minute headways than not now, so that is a big win and should spur a bit of patronage (not just for air travellers either).

I can foresee them running several of the late night GC trains up there instead of only to Bowen Hills sooner rather than later.

[ozbob]

Media release 25th October 2013



SEQ: Massive Frequency Upgrade for BNE Airtrain Passengers

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport congratulates  Brisbane's Airtrain doubling services from January 2014 (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"In January 2014, the largest rail service upgrade in Queensland Rail's history will come into effect. Frequency on many lines will be doubled, cutting waiting time in half. We think this is an excellent move that will lead to strong growth in train passengers across the rail network and an opportunity for more people to leave the car at home. There will also be more choice and freedom for travel to and from the Brisbane airport."

"The boosted frequency will also make it easier for transferring passengers to connect with other train services and buses at Roma Street."

Airtrain services will now depart every fifteen minutes during the following periods:

* from 7:30am until 10:30am in the morning peak;
* from 3:00pm until 6:00pm in the afternoon peak;
* and from 7:00pm to 9:00pm, to cater for additional evening demand.

"This is a significant increase in the frequency of trains on the Airport line when compared to the current timetable."

"We hope that all Airtrain services can be Wi-Fi enabled in the future so that a point of difference is set up between Airtrain and competing taxi and shuttle bus operators."

"The largest service upgrade in Queensland Rail's history is a stark contrast to Brisbane City Council's cuts cuts cuts. Despite claiming to be able to deliver a 'better' review than TransLink, BCC was unable to deliver high frequency services to Yeronga, Albany Creek, Morningside, Inala, Enoggera, the entire Centenary Suburbs and the touted 2000 daily express buses down Legacy Way remains only as a forgotten promise."

"We applaud Airtrain on their rail upgrade. The best customer service is frequent train service!

"Catch the train, make the plane!"

Reference:

1. Airtrain announces additional services http://www.airtrain.com.au/additionalservices.php

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[awotam]

The first train to the airport on a Sunday reaches the Domestic station at 6.25am. That's ideal for a 7.30am flight I want to catch. Unfortunately, the earliest train from Sherwood reaches Roma St 5 mins after the Airport train has gone 

[ozbob]

airrailNEWS --> Airtrain welcomes back Chris Basche as its CEO

Interesting move. 

[ozbob]

Twitter

Brisbane's Airtrain @BrisAirtrain 3 hours ago

celebrating 14th bday, remembering what's important in life. #noworries @BrisbaneAirport @QueenslandRail @Robert_Dow

[#Metro]

Can BT buses now enter the Brisbane Airport precinct?

Route 369 would be the logical choice to extend into BNE Airport as it would serve the entire northern suburbs and would have minimal competition
with the airtrain line. Even if a touch off surcharge had to be applied to retain competitive neutrality, it would only need to cover the cost of running the bus on the non-subsidised extension from Toombul-Airport which would be minimal. The fast road would mean operating costs for the bus would also be minimal, at about 8 minutes travel time and around $50/hour bus running costs (estimate) this would work out to be around $7...

Buses could provide public transport direct to Brisbane Airport after 2014, according to Brisbane City Council.

The restricted timetable of the Airtrain service, which has a virtual monopoly on public transport to and from the airport, has long been an issue for travellers.

However, council's report to the Productivity Commission appears to contradict this.

"Under the agreement between Airtrain and Queensland Transport, Brisbane City Council is not permitted to operate a bus service within one kilometre of Airtrain stations until 2014," it reads.

http://www.traveller.com.au/off-the-rails-uncertainty-over-airtrain-monopoly-288sk

[verbatim9]

Yeah they could run a service from Springwood  SE Busway via Clem 7  Airport link Express to International and Domestic

[verbatim9]

Another maybe called the 787 from Cultural Centre King George Sq Roma St then all Stops via the Northern Busway to RBWH then express to Intnl and Domestic Terminals Maybe another called the 777 from Aspley or Carseldine via Chermside Gympie Road Kedron then Airport link express DFO then Intnl and Domestic Terminals

[James]

C'mon, seriously guys, foaming over BT bus services? Firstly, even if operating BT services to the airport is now possible, many potential routings would just cannibalise existing AirTrain patronage. 590 would work well (thanks to the Gateway shortcut), but I think the 369 would have mixed results. Generally, there's no need to run "airport express" buses at the expense of the taxpayer anywhere else because access to the airport through transferring to PT already exists (particularly for southern, western and nearby suburbs, or any suburb near a railway line).

Remember, these services would be patronised solely by locals going to the airport - a tourist or regular visitor would likely just hop on the AirTrain or use a taxi on the inbound. Is there that much local demand for an airport bus in the suburbs?

[bcasey]

http://www.traveller.com.au/melbourne-airport-skybus-might-be-better-than-a-rail-link-says-transport-expert-35nch

If anything, a more frequent airport bus service would have been better than putting the Airtrain in, but since we already have the infrastructure, we shouldn't really be putting in other services that would just compete with it. That is the whole point of our network plan, to remove as much duplication waste as possible. Airport PT services are a red herring, they might be politically attractive, but in practical terms, their patronage is considerably lower than other high frequency services (since the majority of people will maybe use them once or twice a year, if at all), particularly if they are at the end of the line like our airport is situated.

[#Metro]

The Government is there to serve the people, not serve Airtrain. If the contract is such that buses may be operated after 2014, the so be it. If that's what the contract permits, that's what the company signed up to.

If people use the bus service, it is because they perceive a benefit in doing so over and above their other alternatives. It may be cheaper or faster or closer, or a combination of all three.

An extended 369 Airport Bus would serve a different market to the Airtrain, which is primarily geared towards Airport-CBD-Gold Coast trips and whose trips can connect at Central/Roma Street. Given that many employees live close to their workplaces also, one would expect the service to be useful also for BNE Airport employees who live on the Northside but cannot use rail to get to the Airport.

There is already competition against airtrain in the form of personal car, taxi services, vanpool/minibus and coaches etc. None of those modes are banned from the Airport precinct for Airtrain's sake. There is also the free BNE bus from DFO as well. Provided that the bus service between Toombul and Brisbane Airport is not subsidised, there is no competition grounds for banning such a bus service extension.

Brisbane Airport would likely make a very good 'anchor' for a bus service, given that patronage would be generated around the clock, all day. It is true that most people would not go to the airport every day, but consider a hospital, which most people might use a handful of times in a decade. Yet hospitals are great PT demand generators.

[#Metro]

Interestingly, there is also a precedent in Adelaide, which runs multiple public bus routes to Adelaide Airport.
https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/Timetables-Maps/Special-Services/Airport-services

JetBus Adelaide

J1 Glenelg Interchange to CBD
J1X Adelaide Airport to CBD https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/var/metro/storage/original/application/c4f6d2f588a1f3fc98c35fc7a298fdfa.pdf
J2 Harbour Town Centre to CBD

Two services are cross-town services that go to the Airport https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/var/metro/storage/original/application/481a394dbb76a1dc6f88ae35402c124c.pdf

J7 WestLakes Centre to Marion Interchange
J8 WestLakes Centre to Marion Interchange

These services have no surcharge.

[SurfRail]

Hop off 369 at EJ, hop on train.  Not hard.

[bcasey]

I haven't been to Adelaide before, so I can't speak from personal experience of what the PT is like down there. However, comparing the geography of Adelaide with Brisbane, particularly with the positioning of the respective airports with respect to the CBD and the rest of the city, I don't really think the multiple services to Adelaide Airport is necessarily a good idea for Brisbane.

Primarily because Adelaide Airport is not in a peninsula like Brisbane Airport. It has several arterial roads around its boundary, which means it can be "on the way" and well-suited to a connected grid network.

Brisbane Airport, on the other hand, is literally at the end of the road, and therefore has to act as a major attraction for patronage, otherwise lines will have to veer away from a direct line in order to service it, thus making them less attractive to people who don't need to go to the airport.

Personally, extending the 369 to the Airport would be of benefit to me, should I need to go there, as Kedron is not well-serviced by the rail network, and it would provide me a quicker trip then catching a bus to the nearest train station. However, I would suggest against sending more than one bus route directly to the airport. Instead we should make sure there are good connections at the major interchanges between the 369 and the main north/south lines, particularly at Toombul. I think we would be sacrificing too many resources if we have more than one competing bus route going there.

[bcasey]

Hop off 369 at EJ, hop on train.  Not hard.

aye, as long as the connections are good, this is a preferable solution that would conserve resources. It does mean a bit of backtracking for anyone coming from buses that go along past Toombul, but they would probably have gotten on the train earlier anyway.

[#Metro]

Hop off 369 at EJ, hop on train.  Not hard

Timetables might not connect - could be waiting quite a while
Extra fare penalty is $17 as well.

Direct bus would remove both those barriers, and have an advantage.

Personally, extending the 369 to the Airport would be of benefit to me, should I need to go there, as Kedron is not well-serviced by the rail network, and it would provide me a quicker trip then catching a bus to the nearest train station. However, I would suggest against sending more than one bus route directly to the airport. Instead we should make sure there are good connections at the major interchanges between the 369 and the main north/south lines, particularly at Toombul. I think we would be sacrificing too many resources if we have more than one competing bus route going there.

369 would be a good place to start, as it has direct Nth Busway connection, the northsiders can change and use it. Good connections at Mitchelton, Kedron, EJ, Toombul as well.

If the service were unsubsidied for the Toombul - Airport journey, it would be self-funding, and with a fee of around $7, would be about 2.5x cheaper than the Airtrain.

[bcasey]

The other thing that needs to be considered is that usually when you go to the airport, you will most likely have several pieces of luggage with you, which makes transferring even less attractive than usual, especially if you also have to wrangle children between services as well. So we can't expect people to use PT to the airport if they need to transfer more than once or twice, and those transfers must be as easy as possible.

[#Metro]

The other thing that needs to be considered is that usually when you go to the airport, you will most likely have several pieces of luggage with you, which makes transferring even less attractive than usual, especially if you also have to wrangle children between services as well. So we can't expect people to use PT to the airport if they need to transfer more than once or twice, and those transfers must be as easy as possible.

I've always observed people at DFO transferring to the BNE Airport bus shuttle, and they often bring luggage also. 590 can also be used this way. With cheap flights that have restrictive baggage allowances (i.e. hand / cabin baggage only), a lot of pax would be able to change with ease nonetheless.

[James]

If people use the bus service, it is because they perceive a benefit in doing so over and above their other alternatives. It may be cheaper or faster or closer, or a combination of all three.

The only benefit you really get is the 'cheaper' part. No way the bus will be faster - have you seen the traffic around the Airport Link/Sandgate Rd intersection at peak hour? It is horrendous, I prefer to take KSD over Sandgate Rd because of that intersection.

An extended 369 Airport Bus would serve a different market to the Airtrain, which is primarily geared towards Airport-CBD-Gold Coast trips and whose trips can connect at Central/Roma Street. Given that many employees live close to their workplaces also, one would expect the service to be useful also for BNE Airport employees who live on the Northside but cannot use rail to get to the Airport.

There is already competition against airtrain in the form of personal car, taxi services, vanpool/minibus and coaches etc. None of those modes are banned from the Airport precinct for Airtrain's sake. There is also the free BNE bus from DFO as well. Provided that the bus service between Toombul and Brisbane Airport is not subsidised, there is no competition grounds for banning such a bus service extension.

The Airtrain has employee options I believe, and I don't think parking at the DFO on weekdays is patrolled. Staff at the airport would also tend to work odd hours - hours when the buses have already gone to bed, or are yet to wake up.

Brisbane Airport would likely make a very good 'anchor' for a bus service, given that patronage would be generated around the clock, all day. It is true that most people would not go to the airport every day, but consider a hospital, which most people might use a handful of times in a decade. Yet hospitals are great PT demand generators.

The big difference between a hospital and an airport is lots of grannies who can't drive go to a hospital on a regular basis for check-ups and so forth, and most hospitals tend to be huge centres of employment as well. Not to mention when someone falls ill, half the world tends to go and visit them (and multiple times at that).

Once someone gets to an airport, you generally don't see them again until their return, and generally half the world doesn't come with you to see you off, nor do you regularly 'come back' to the airport.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Disagree with the 369 going to the Airport. What for?? People getting on the bus with lots of bulky luggage mixed with shoppers, workers, school kids.

Fix the existing network first rather than foaming over a BT bus running to the airport. If someone is that desperate for a bus to the airport because of their phobia of trains and cars then catch a 369 to DFO and then catch one of the many terminal buses designed to carry your luggage that go from there.

The 369 should be a buz and re-extended to DFO for starters. But at the same time there needs to be more cutting to the network. And the 369 time penalty also doesn't fly with me. As it is now the 369 is already a basket case to connect to via other buses and trains. Pretty sure the time penalty is still there but around midday its faster to get on the bus going to the city, transfer and walk up the road at Windsor railway station to a train going to the city, transfer at Bowen Hills to a northbound service to Toombul, walk to Toombul to board the 590 and arrive at DFO compared to if you had waited for the next 369 service at Kedron and transferred to the connecting 590 at Toombul. Fix that issue first.

[#Metro]

Staff at the airport would also tend to work odd hours - hours when the buses have already gone to bed, or are yet to wake up.

I don't agree with this argument. Most flights are during the day. Hospital staff (nurses etc) also work odd hours, and PT serves them. Same with schools which finish at 3 - 3.30 pm etc.

When I quote around $7 for the bus to travel to/from Toombul - Airport, I am assuming 1 passenger. If there are on average a handful of passengers, the service is already profitable, and fares could be lower than this amount.

Disagree with the 369 going to the Airport. What for?? People getting on the bus with lots of bulky luggage mixed with shoppers, workers, school kids.

Gold Coast passengers mix with people going to the Airport. Who died?

Plenty of space on 369.

[techblitz]

When I quote around $7 for the bus to travel to/from Toombul - Airport, I am assuming 1 passenger. If there are on average a handful of passengers, the service is already profitable, and fares could be lower than this amount.

watch it...your contradicitng your own policy of "just because a route is profitable or high value for money doesnt mean it should exist"
consistency please......

[HappyTrainGuy]

Obviously you don't know too much about shift work or airport working hours. Especially when it comes to staff and early/night flights. Hardly any of Brisbane's buses are set up for a lot of shift workers which is why I keep laughing at people that suggest that the BUZ standard should be 15 mins from 5am until midnight because of 'shift workers'. Just check the Caboolture line train at 3-4am. At times you can mistake it for a peak hour service. Which can be repeated on the weekend when loadings can be higher than trains going to the city at a time when everyone has woken up. Same thing with the airport train. The first few services can have very good loadings. Even Gympie Road has 2 morning peak hour cycles. You have the initial heavy traffic from about 4 before slightly easing followed up by the second round close to 6.30 yet how many buses are running along Gympie Road before 5am.

Gold Coast passengers mix with people going to the Airport. Who died?

Plenty of space on 369.

Last time I checked a bus wasn't 145m long and if you stripped the inside fittings, cut the roof off and cut one of the ends off the train you would have enough space to drive and park a BT bus inside.

[#Metro]

watch it...your contradicitng your own policy of "just because a route is profitable or high value for money doesnt mean it should exist"

Train and bus would serve different areas of Brisbane. Not a contradiction. Precedent in Adelaide.

Money made on the route could also be used to fund other services via cross-subsidy. Double win.  And the costs to run an Airtrain are effectively fixed whether 1 passenger or 1000 passengers are on board.

http://www.bne.com.au/arrivals-departures/arrivals-departures

Most flights appear to be arriving/departing from Brisbane airport in the window 6 am - 9 pm

[HappyTrainGuy]

The Airtrain has employee options I believe, and I don't think parking at the DFO on weekdays is patrolled. Staff at the airport would also tend to work odd hours - hours when the buses have already gone to bed, or are yet to wake up.

Indeed. IIRC it's $35 for unlimited 7 day travel and covers the Terminals and covers access to the QR network from Eagle Junction to Roma Street. Beyond is subject to translink fares which is great if you live and use any of the stations from Eagle Junction to Roma Street. Might even work out cheaper than someone commuting from Eagle Junction to Central 5 days a week Workers also have their own bus network which is the Cityglider standard (24/7 with a bus every 10 minutes) between the parking lots and the terminal.

[BrizCommuter]

Hospital staff (nurses etc) also work odd hours, and PT serves them.

Actually, you find that outside of 8-4 and 9-5 shifts, public transport serves hospital staff very poorly. Whilst a reasonable proportion of staff on day shifts at Mater and Herston campuses use public transport, those working early start or evening shifts almost completely use cars due to lack of network coverage, poor frequency outside of daytime hours (not forgetting high cost of public transport). Lets face it, if you have just 10 hours between shifts to get home, eat, sleep, shower, eat, and get back into work, are you really going to bother with public transport?

Note the huge car park usage around the Mater campus despite a nearby busway and train line. Also, the parking requirements for new kids hospital were vastly under-estimated resulting in full car park signs up during most of day.

[pandmaster]

At the very least there should be a bus service outside of the span of the train's hours. People should be guaranteed a ride home that does not cost a fortune (i.e. taxi). The existing T-Bus could be used (a few more may need to be ordered) which have luggage space. The service could run to the city via APL and INB.

The 590 I think would be the prime candidate to be extended to the airport. The areas it serves are very close to the airport and while the T-Bus can get you there it is unreliable, has a poor span of hours and only reasonable frequency (around 20 minutes most of the time). The train is much slower and more expensive along the Cleveland line, so rail connectivity at Murarrie would be essential. The 369 could be  restored to the DFO to fill the service gap (possibly the airport too, though that is a hot topic it appears). The main issue with this would be linking the 590 to Toombul. The DFO connection could do that or the 369 could run to the airport instead and the 590 stay as is.

[brissypete]

I recall seeing somewhere that BT are not allowed to operate to the terminals due to restrictions in the contract between BAC and Airtrain.  Outside train hours would be another story I imagine.