Airtrain

[somebody]

Interesting article ..

Sydney Morning Herald --> Airport price gouging: are their days numbered?

Only conclusion I can draw from that article, is that: No, the days of gouging aren't numbered.

[colinw]

... at least until peak oil brings the whole thing tumbling down. Although the Brazilians are making some rather good progress with ethanol for jets, so we may just end up flying in booze powered Embraers :-)

No doubt the Government has put the whole Airtrain thing in the "too hard basket", and will make us wait for the end of the franchise in 2035 before fixing the problem.  Kind of fits well with this whole lame "by 2031" thing really.  Which will come first, a train to the airport after 9PM or a decent rail service to the Sunshine Coast?

[somebody]

... at least until peak oil brings the whole thing tumbling down. Although the Brazilians are making some rather good progress with ethanol for jets, so we may just end up flying in booze powered Embraers :-)

No doubt the Government has put the whole Airtrain thing in the "too hard basket", and will make us wait for the end of the franchise in 2035 before fixing the problem.  Kind of fits well with this whole lame "by 2031" thing really.  Which will come first, a train to the airport after 9PM or a decent rail service to the Sunshine Coast?

I don't follow why you'd bother with ethanol powered jets while you are still burning oil for cars.

Regretably, I think you are correct.  Perhaps there will be a state takeover of Airtrain once all the new roads come in and the owners are eager to sell.

[colinw]

... at least until peak oil brings the whole thing tumbling down. Although the Brazilians are making some rather good progress with ethanol for jets, so we may just end up flying in booze powered Embraers :-)

I don't follow why you'd bother with ethanol powered jets while you are still burning oil for cars.

That is probably true for most of the world.  The Brazilians appear to be on a different path, probably because they have little oil, lots of sugar, and a vast area of the Amazon still available to rape & pillage by replacing old growth forest with crops.

[mufreight]

With the current government and Minister probably neither will eventuate in our lifetimes.

[ozbob]

Media release 24 December 2010

SEQ: Boost Airtrain services during Christmas and holiday seasons to avoid meltdown

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said that more Airtrain services should be put on, particularly during holiday periods such as Christmas.

RAIL Back on Track highlights the traffic meltdowns, with record traffic swamping Brisbane Airport and causing the provision of emergency car parks at DFO Brisbane Airport. The situation as reported by the Brisbanetimes speaks for itself really (1):

"As reported by Brisbanetimes (1): 'Spokeswoman Rebecca Masci said last night's peak period was one of the worst traffic flows at the airport in its history.

'We came in this morning and tried to come up with a solution,' she said.

'We're expecting the biggest passenger number we've ever had before this Christmas and the traffic already is showing signs [of] congestion.'

'The precinct is suffering, the roads are struggling [and] we've still got a couple of days to Christmas - the biggest day [Christmas Eve] is [still] to come.' "

'Motorists are being urged to wait at the DFO car park for a phone call from arriving passengers before driving to the pick-up/drop-off zone.'

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Rail Back on Track suggests:

1. That the private Airtrain service consider extending its hours of operation until 11pm during future Christmas periods, and indeed, other high load periods such as Easter, if not all year round to further make the Airtrain the preferred transport solution.  This is important to make Airtrain first choice.

2. Institute a fare discount to pull cars off the roads to the Airport.

3. Boost frequency on the Airtrain line of every 15 minutes during high load periods

"Clearly the private model of running 'profit only' services is not serving the basic community interest as well as it would do under public subsidy, which is to run services which can take people off the roads and put them into trains. Since the Airtrain was built at zero cost to the Queensland Government and costs the Queensland Government nothing to operate, we call on the Queensland Government again subsidise the service after 8pm and to tell us what the outcome of the Airtrain meetings were earlier this year."

"Services must meet community needs. Congestion on the roads leading to Brisbane Airport would be much relieved and people would have a much cheaper trip if they caught the train, with savings for the whole community in terms of reduced road trauma costs, reduced congestion costs and less wasted fuel, and lessened environmental impacts and time savings."

Reference:

1. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/emergency-parking-to-ease-airport-bottleneck-20101223-196df.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Still no movement with the 'Airtrain' ....

The base issue well demonstrated, together with the restricted hours of operation ..

Brisbane International











Photographs R Dow 19th December 2010

[#Metro]

Its almost like there is some unspoken law in Brisbane "no train may run more frequently than 30 minutes in the off peak".

[ozbob]

Courier Mail --> Brisbane Airport in peak period chaos as traffic lights fail

[mufreight]

Still nothing from the Minister for Intransigence, Spin and Transport regarding the discussions about Airtrain fares and timetabling,

[ozbob]

There is a committment of sorts that the fare rip-off will be sorted in the ' first quarter of 2011 ', meanwhile break your journey at the CBD stations to avoid.

Anything else re Airtrain improvements is just a vacuum of information and moving forwards, together with the road congestion cesspit to and from BNE.

[colinw]

Yesterday my wife had to get up at 4:30AM to drive my in-laws to the airport for an early flight.  There was no airtrain service available.

[Gazza]

^No Citytrain services then either.

There definitely needs to be later airtrains, but having any earlier ones is pointless for the time being because no other PT runs then anyway. I've used that new early morning service, and in order to catch I actually had to be dropped at Roma Street since the first inbound Ipswich train wasn't for another half hour.

[colinw]

Yep, just looked at the timetables again, and same situation here.  The first train inbound here is 4:50AM @ Kuraby, which connects with the 3rd airport service of the day.  There is no way for us to access the first two airport trains of the day due to the lack of early morning suburban services.

[mufreight]

An obvious need for earlier services on all lines   

[somebody]

^No Citytrain services then either.

There definitely needs to be later airtrains, but having any earlier ones is pointless for the time being because no other PT runs then anyway. I've used that new early morning service, and in order to catch I actually had to be dropped at Roma Street since the first inbound Ipswich train wasn't for another half hour.

Indeed.  Was anyone on the train?

[colinw]

Hmmm ... so somehow Airtrain finds it "viable" to run two very early morning trains with no connecting suburban services, but cannot see fit to run trains to 9:00PM or later when the airport is still busy?

This really is hicksville, isn't it?

[somebody]

I sent them some feedback about that, and they said that "your comments have been passed to management".

[Gazza]

Indeed.  Was anyone on the train?

Maybe 7 or so. Can't remember that well because I'm not an early morning person. Not many anyhow.

[somebody]

Ok, thanks for replying.

Seems pretty strange that they thought such a service would work.

[mufreight]

Ok, thanks for replying.

Seems pretty strange that they thought such a service would work.

"THINK", or thought, you would have to be kidding, to think is a process unknown to, and beyond the experience of the executive of either Airtrain, Translink or the Minister for Intransigence, Incompetence, Duplicity and Transport.

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail 18th February 2011 page 16

Airtrain passengers return to roadways



No surprise, a failure to drive patronage due to restricted hours of operation, poor frequency and perceived value.  Publicly we suggested that unless they lifted their game they would be heading into trouble.  Now is the time to change the paradigm!  

[colinw]

Count me as one of the former Airtrain users who has been forced back into the ubiquitous Yellow Taxi.

Quite simply, on many occasions I simply cannot catch the train as there is no train to catch.  It annoyed me so much that I gave up on them entirely  even for the times when I travel and Airtrain IS running.

Add to that the Go Card overcharge debacle, poor service frequency, and the erratic level of service to my closest Airtrain served station (Coopers Plains), and it just isn't worth the trouble.  The last time I caught the train from the airport, the screens at Domestic showed the train as stopping at Coopers Plains, but in fact it wasn't.  I noticed the discrepancy at Roma St and we bailed out & caught the all stations. Showing a wrong stopping pattern at an airport station is very bad form!

I want to use Airtrain, I really do!  But until they get their act together it just isn't worth the trouble.  Worlds worst practice, no doubt about it.

[ozbob]

They are just not with it ...

From earlier in this thread

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Airtrain told to slash fares

Airtrain told to slash fares
Tony Moore
October 7, 2010

Translink says it is working with Airtrain operators to fix a pricing anomaly.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan has called on the privately-run Airtrain to slash its fares after it was revealed that commuters were slugged up to an extra $5.70 to use the service from suburban stations.

brisbanetimes.com.au yesterday revealed Go Card commuters were paying extra to take a continuous Airtrain trip to the airport, rather than switch trains or touch off then on at Central Station.

"I note Airtrain has recently repaid their debt, so this would be a perfect opportunity to cut fares for commuters," Ms Nolan said.

"But even if they don't, our Go Card means you can take advantage of Queensland Government subsidised travel for part of your journey, which cuts your fare.

"With paper tickets you couldn't do this, and you had to pay the higher Airtrain fare."

Meanwhile, public transport lobby group Rail Back on Track has repeated its call for Airtrain to be taken over by the state government.

Spokesman Robert Dow called on the government to examine a green subsidy scheme proposed in Airtrain research in 2006.

"The preferred position is that the state government just takes Airtrain over, it is integrated into the Translink network tomorrow, the hours of operation match the rest of the network and the fare structure is exactly the same as the network," Mr Dow said.

"That is just not going to happen."

He said growth at Brisbane Airport and the possibility of Queensland's hosting the 2018 Commonwealth Games should encourage the State Government to consider the green subsidy to boost rail transport to the Gold Coast on a 24-hour basis.

In 2006, Airtrain identified five-year savings from reducing road crashes ($5.7 million), vehicle emissions ($800,000) and fuel savings (10.6 million litres) in a joint study with Queensland University of Technology and University of Queensland.

"If that is extrapolated up until today's environment it could be a real important driver in looking for some subsidy from the government for some additional services outside what Airtrain considers viable," Mr Dow said.

Currently, there are no Airtrain services to or from Brisbane Airport after 8pm.

Airtrain chief executive Chris Basche yesterday said the arrival or departure of 30 to 40 flights from Brisbane Airport after 8pm did not provide enough passengers to cover the cost of extra trains.

However, he predicted one night train would be launched within 12 to 18 months.

Mr Dow said the Queensland Government should be more proactive.

"The Gold Coast is such a rapidly growing tourist and leisure market, it's a 24-hour economy down there," he said.

"That could be southeast Queensland's first-ever 24 hour rail transport corridor."

Mr Dow also warned the Airport Link tunnel - which will ultimately connect the northern suburb of Windsor to the airport - could hurt Airtrain.

"Although they are returning a profit at the moment, with Airport Link coming into play in a few years, it could react quite negatively on them," Mr Dow said.

Airport Link includes a bus tunnel (the Northern Busway) and sources suggest there will be moves to provide buses to the airport.

Airtrain began in 2001, received its first profits in 2005 and posted a modest $7.4 million profit in 2009.

Airtrain's patronage by 2009 grew by 11 per cent to a record 1,889,549 people, an extra 250,000 passengers from the previous year.

The Airport Link toll project begins in mid-2012.

[ozbob]

Tourism and Transport Forum

Accessing Our Airports

FEBRUARY 18: This paper, Accessing Our Airports - integrating city transport planning with growing air services demand, makes the case for ongoing development of land transport links to airports.

--> http://www.ttf.org.au/Content/airportaccess0211.aspx

[Jonno]

Wow.  This is not all Airtrain's fault at all.  They have had billions spent on their direct competition and all the Airport says is "it is hard to change behaviour". It is never going to change when it's being encouraged not too.

[somebody]

Wow.  This is not all Airtrain's fault at all.  They have had billions spent on their direct competition and all the Airport says is "it is hard to change behaviour". It is never going to change when it's being encouraged not too.

Not to mention the too expensive charge for actually running the service.  Seems to be a gross error in negotiating the contract IMO.

[#Metro]

What will happen if they go bankrupt?
Who will pay to maintain the railway if they cannot make enough profit to cover operational costs?

[somebody]

What will happen if they go bankrupt?
Who will pay to maintain the railway if they cannot make enough profit to cover operational costs?

Reverts to govt ownership.

[#Metro]

 

[Emmie]

Heard yet another Airtrain horror story from Monday night - the night of the big storm. The airport was closed to incoming planes for hours, leading to a long queue for landing places, and MANY passengers unexpectedly arriving late. Friends were due to arrive from interstate at 5, and planned to catch the train. Arrived at 10pm, by which time there was no train, and a horrendous queue for taxis. Ay 12:30 am, they finally rang (and woke) their son to come and get them. Once again, the insanity of the Airtrain timetable, and a really great welcome to Brisbane for visitors.

[johnnigh]

Airtrain is profitable. No problems. Time they had a stronger community contribution imposed on them as extended operating hours and no more excusing themselves by citing lack of govt subsidy   .

We've a new minister, she might be more forceful than Rachel, who, lets face it, is more ambition than service, following Andrew Fraser's example. Let me know if I'm too hard on her...

[mufreight]

>>>>>>>>>The solution is simple<<<<<<<<<<<
Queensland Rail assumes ownership of Airtrain, either by a buy out, by leasing the line until the existing agreement expires and the infrastructure reverts to government ownership or by a legslitated takeover (Nationalise or resumption of the corridor) with QR then (not Translink) having full control of the corridor
Trains could then be operated to meet passenger demand and in the case of events such as those on Monday night operate services or arrange alternative transport ( something that QR itself unlike Translink is quite good at and responsive to)

[#Metro]

Personally, IMHO there is a real chance Airtrain will go bankrupt with Airport Link. Sorry to say it but it could well jeopardise their operations. 

[ozbob]

Personally, IMHO there is a real chance Airtrain will go bankrupt with Airport Link. Sorry to say it but it could well jeopardise their operations. 

I agree, and the way Airtrain can turn it around is to:

a:  extend hours of operation

b:  increase frequency

c:  reduce fares and bring in more innovative fare packages.

By doing that they can make Airtrain first choice for many IMHO.

[#Metro]

It can't do this without cross-subsidy.

[somebody]

Personally, IMHO there is a real chance Airtrain will go bankrupt with Airport Link. Sorry to say it but it could well jeopardise their operations. 

I beg to differ.

If Airtrain have repaid all their debt as they have reported, then nothing can send them bankrupt.  Debt free companies don't go bankrupt until they start losing money!  If patronage drops, they can always cut services.

[#Metro]

That is exactly the problem. You start cutting service you are going to go into a death spiral.
Low frequency, low patronage.

Hourly Airtrain runs and services ending at 6pm sounds like something to avoid.

In the 1920s and 1930s most public transport around the world was subject to public takeover. There are very good reasons for this.

[colinw]

The topic of Airtrain just came up with two of my workmates.  I'll quote them directly:

Co-worker #1: "What is it with Airtrain?  I got home one night and tried to go to the station but the trains had already finished.  Don't they realise the planes go until late at night?  I haven't bothered trying again.".

Co-worker #2: "I caught it once, and it was really slow and kept stopping between stations all the way to the city."

Both told me they just catch cabs now.

These are real comments by normal people who use the airport several times a year.  Note: we are a rail industry business, and even our employees don't use Airtrain!

[#Metro]

So it isn't just me, the train ALWAYS stops between stations?
Ridiculous!

Must be the same class of 'Express' as the buses going down Coro drive...