Simplification for routes 111 and 333

[City Designer]

I was thinking this evening that the North Busway and South East Busway corridors have the potential for consolidation of services.

Routes 66, 111, 160, and 333 could be consolidated into just two routes.

Route 111: RBWH station to 8 Mile Plains station via South Busway (Peak 5 | Weekdays 10 | Weekends 15)
Route 333: UQ Lakes station to Chermside interchange via North Busway (Peak 5 | Weekdays 10 | Weekends 15)

This stopping pattern follows the peak flows and through routes into the counter peak flows of UQ St Lucia campus and QUT Kelvin Grove campus.

No stopping patterns are lost and the through routing keeps both trunk busway routes on the busway network.

The through routing will dramatically cuts the number of buses at the Cultural Centre station with no loss of services.

The combined 111 and 333 would provide a very frequent core service from RBWH station to Mater Hill station (Peak 2.5 | Weekdays 5 | Weekends 7.5).

[#Metro]

The reason why there are so many bus routes, in part, is because the size of the bus is limiting.
When the bus gets full, they just invent a new bus route. Or fire a rocket.

This seems to be the case with the 555/111/160 and associated 161/162 rockets. A larger bus would simplify the network dramatically (and be labour efficient), and a metro would be the simplest of all.

[aldonius]

You may have a point with the 333/66, though I'm not sure about the capacity.

[City Designer]

One of the disadvantages would be the loss of articulated buses on the Mater Hill to UQ Lakes section of the busway.

I'm just playing with the idea of through routing services to reduce duplication.

[#Metro]

I would leave the 66 alone. That is the busiest route on the entire network, and I think the solution there is superbuses.

[aldonius]

Through-routing buses has big reliability issues. I can't speak for the 196, 199, Gliders or 375, but the 77 definitely has them in PM peak - and this is heading northbound at Buranda after the busway stretch, which should be reliable!

[James]

I actually don't mind this idea, and think it is one of the best ideas suggested on this forum in a while. And this is coming from someone who tends to come down on new proposals like a ton of bricks.

The two main issues would be:
1. The surface running along Gympie Rd may hamper reliability for the 333 and could cause delays to what is (generally) a very reliable route 66.
2. Possible overserving of UQ when it isn't required (e.g. in Uni holidays, at 8pm on Sunday nights).
I think it might be worth investigating how much demand there is for SE Busway -> RBWH, but aside from that, I think this is a decent idea.

[SurfRail]

I think continuous bus priority all the way to Chermside is a mandatory minimum for this to work.  Bus lanes between Federation St and Truro St, and again between the northern end of the busway and Hamilton Rd.

Probably also need a proper expansion of Chermside especially if we are talking bigger vehicles.

[nathandavid88]

With the 111/160, would we go one step further and fold the 555 into it as well?

[SurfRail]

I think the issue is that loadings on the 555 do not match the demand inbound of Garden City.

I think there is a decent argument to be made to terminate the 111 at Garden City depot and get rid of the 160.  8MP has plenty of other services.

[James]

I think the issue is that loadings on the 555 do not match the demand inbound of Garden City.

I think there is a decent argument to be made to terminate the 111 at Garden City depot and get rid of the 160.  8MP has plenty of other services.

Aside from the 555, what other Citybound off-peak services does 8MP have? The rest of the routes are either UQ Lakes routes or terminate just a bit further up the road. I think one of Brisbane's largest Park 'n' Rides deserves a bit more than a bus every 15 minutes.

[Gazza]

For the 111, I've been wondering to myself if you could extend it to Underwood Rd to a terminus there, with appropriate driver facilities.

The busway doesn't even need to be extended to do this, and you'd be giving access to the frequent network to Roachedale South, which is bypassed by the 555.

[SurfRail]

I think the issue is that loadings on the 555 do not match the demand inbound of Garden City.

I think there is a decent argument to be made to terminate the 111 at Garden City depot and get rid of the 160.  8MP has plenty of other services.

Aside from the 555, what other Citybound off-peak services does 8MP have? The rest of the routes are either UQ Lakes routes or terminate just a bit further up the road. I think one of Brisbane's largest Park 'n' Rides deserves a bit more than a bus every 15 minutes.

Why does that matter?  There's basically nothing there, certainly nothing a 15 minute headway can't deal with.  Peak hour services are plentiful.

You've also got the 77, the 169 and all the local services that use the busway to get to Garden City.  The fact these don't go to the CBD is not that relevant when there are so many interchange opportunities at every stop.

[City Designer]

With the 111/160, would we go one step further and fold the 555 into it as well?

The intention was to leave the 555 out of it as it's a regional trunk service.

[Jonno]

Through-routing buses has big reliability issues. I can't speak for the 196, 199, Gliders or 375, but the 77 definitely has them in PM peak - and this is heading northbound at Buranda after the busway stretch, which should be reliable!

Doesn't seem to impact the Gliders

[ozbob]

It does in actuality but because of frequency has little practical impact.  TransLink do constantly put out late runners or cancelled advices for all the ' Glider ' routes.  Frequency is freedom!   

[HappyTrainGuy]

I've been saying for ages but every time I do someone wants to shoot down that idea. Combine the 111+333 and make it pre paid only. Or atleast run the 111 to RBWH/Kedron. If you combine the two then slap some Transit lanes on Gympie Road. Easy peasy.

[Gazza]

It does in actuality but because of frequency has little practical impact.  TransLink do constantly put out late runners or cancelled advices for all the ' Glider ' routes.  Frequency is freedom!   

There were those big problems with bus bunching we highlighted a couple of months ago....

[aldonius]

I've been saying for ages but every time I do someone wants to shoot down that idea. Combine the 111+333 and make it pre paid only. Or atleast run the 111 to RBWH/Kedron. If you combine the two then slap some Transit lanes on Gympie Road. Easy peasy.

Reliability, reliability, reliability.

Agree the 111 should probably run to RBWH (at a minimum, KG), but the demand patterns on the INB aren't necessarily those of the SEB.

That's the other thing - counter-peak would be massively over-serviced. It's easy enough to explain to train passengers that a City-bound train will terminate there and not continue (in service, anyway). Bit harder on a bus.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Then slap down some transit lanes

Also making the route prepaid will speed things up. Traffic will slow it down but transit lanes will fix it. If you run it frequently you can also start modifying other routes such as the removal of the 340 as a buz or even shortening the route to terminate at Chermside.

Overservicing is nothing new on this network. Because chermside needs 3 buz routes at 11pm at night. If you run the 111 to kedron you could seriously start looking at removing routes from Gympie Road. From the northern busway and the duplicated surface streets above you have the 321, 333, 334, 340, 370, 375, 376, 379. Rather than having all these empty/half full buses going to the city (like we see on the south east busway) start terminating them at the busway stations to quickly jump onto a high capacity bus to/from the city.

[red dragin]

A busway only bus does make sense. Give it a new route number and start to cut back the other routes, essentially renumber the cut runs into the new route.

Call it the "xxxxxxxx Flyer", sounds faster than a glider and separates it from the rockets.

My 2 cents anyway.

[ozbob]

It does in actuality but because of frequency has little practical impact.  TransLink do constantly put out late runners or cancelled advices for all the ' Glider ' routes.  Frequency is freedom!   

There were those big problems with bus bunching we highlighted a couple of months ago....

Yo.  That was due essentially to ' quietly' removing a number of buses, cutting turnaround times and some roadworks impacting.  They put back the buses, back to normal timings, and all is well again it seems.