LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

15th June 2016

Quirk Metro - waste of ratepayer funds

Greetings,

Today we learn the BCC is to waste $16 million for a business case for a very flawed metro proposal.  We have shown conclusively that the spin touted by LM Quirk and others that the metro will carry 30,000 passengers an hour is an impossibility. Using the information Team Quirk supplied to us they clearly indicated the 3 car trains would have a capacity of 220 passengers going up to 300 passengers at peak.  They also indicated that the trains would run every two minutes.  This then computes out to peak max of 9000 passengers per hour per direction (pphpd).  The present busways transport 12,000-15,000 pphpd, considerably more than the proposed Quirk metro.   What will happen to the thousands stuck at Herston and Woolloongabba waiting for a train?

This is very serious that the deficiencies of the metro proposal are simply being denied by all and sundry within Council and ratepayers money being thrown away.

The State Government owns the busway infrastructure.  There is no way a competent Government would allow the busway network to be wrecked for a non-solution.

Brisbane might well need a proper metro one day - a metro with a capacity 4 times that of the Quirk Metro, fully automatic, running 6 to 8 car trains.

To highlight how deficient the Quirk proposal is, below is a simple table that compares the Quirk Metro to the Sydney Metro North West, a real metro presently being built.

It is time serious questions were asked as why this proposal is allowed to continue?  Who stands to benefit ? ? Certainly not Brisbane ratepayers hey?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org



[Attached: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg175672#msg175672 ]

[tazzer9]

Has the BCC even said how the trains will be powered.  I have heard nothing of this, nor any supposed environmental benefits.  So it screams underground diesel powered trains.

[ozbob]

Has the BCC even said how the trains will be powered.  I have heard nothing of this, nor any supposed environmental benefits.  So it screams underground diesel powered trains.

Third rail electric.

[#Metro]

EXCLUSIVE!

Quack Metro Business Case:

1 + 1 = 5

[tazzer9]

Are the BCC going to disclose who is going to receiving the millions of dollars for a business case.  Is this company or persons going to be receiving any praise or endorsement from reputable moderators like Engineers Australia.

Why not hire a few traffic and civil engineering experts and just ask, "apart from money, what is stopping this project".   

[#Metro]

It is truly reckless to go ahead with something when the basic maths of the project does not stack up.

It is even worse when an organisation like ours is actively telling you that it it doesn't make basic sense, and

even print the proof!

The absolute minimum train size to reach 30 000 is 750 pax x 40 trains/hour = 30,000.

If we assume 30 trains/hour then the size increases to become 1000 pax/train.

There are only two ways this can be gotten out of:

1. Quirk announces a project change, expanding the train carriages to 750 pax or 1000 pax. This now means that a problem will exist at Mater Hill with the short platform between two tunnel exits. Massive cost explosion waiting to go off right there if huge engineering works are required to physically fit the train into that constrained area.

This also causes a problem with the victoria bridge. If we assume each pax weighs 85kg (probably should assume more, population is getting obese) then a 1000 pax train will weigh 85 tonnes, and we haven't even added the weight of the train itself, the tracks and whatever else onto the Victoria Bridge.

2. Quirk announces a route change, sending the metro via CRR or a CRR like alignment due to Victoria Bridge issues and expands the size of the train. This would be the best outcome.

[ozbob]

Are the BCC going to disclose who is going to receiving the millions of dollars for a business case.  Is this company or persons going to be receiving any praise or endorsement from reputable moderators like Engineers Australia.

Why not hire a few traffic and civil engineering experts and just ask, "apart from money, what is stopping this project".

I would happy to do the business case for them, gratis.

Here is the business case:

"  The Quirk Metro is a fraudulent con -  do not proceed, do not waste anymore rate payer funds on a pie-in-sky quack quack metro  "

[ozbob]

It is truly reckless to go ahead with something when the basic maths of the project does not stack up.

It is even worse when an organisation like ours is actively telling you that it it doesn't make basic sense, and

even print the proof!

The absolute minimum train size to reach 30 000 is 750 pax x 40 trains/hour = 30,000.

If we assume 30 trains/hour then the size increases to become 1000 pax/train.

There are only two ways this can be gotten out of:

1. Quirk announces a project change, expanding the train carriages to 750 pax or 1000 pax. This now means that a problem will exist at Mater Hill with the short platform between two tunnel exits. Massive cost explosion waiting to go off right there if huge engineering works are required to physically fit the train into that constrained area.

This also causes a problem with the victoria bridge. If we assume each pax weighs 85kg (probably should assume more, population is getting obese) then a 1000 pax train will weigh 85 tonnes, and we haven't even added the weight of the train itself, the tracks and whatever else onto the Victoria Bridge.

2. Quirk announces a route change, sending the metro via CRR or a CRR like alignment due to Victoria Bridge issues and expands the size of the train. This would be the best outcome.

3.  Admit it is not achievable.  Commence bus network reform.  Work in coordination with TMR and develop a real metro proposal that Brisbane will need down the track.

[ozbob]

Oh yeah,  I think there might be few more ' surprises ' yet for Team Quirk   ...  and I don't mean Peking Duck ...

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Brisbane City Council's 4.7% rate increase equates to about $70 a year for most ratepayers

... Opposition Leader Councillor Peter Cumming said Lord Mayor Quirk's 4.7% "rates slug" was hidden from residents during the campaign.

"It should be no surprise to Brisbane residents that they are being hit with a rates increase triple the rate of inflation just after the election," Cr Cumming said.

"This LNP administration has form when it comes to lulling residents into a false

sense of security with unrealistically low pre-election rates rises.

"Then they slap residents with a huge rates increase as soon as they are back in

office.

"In 2011, just prior to the 2012 election, rates rose a paltry 1.74%, followed by

increases of 4.49%, 3.8% and 3.85%.

"It's irresponsible to be hitting up residents for Metro, when they (council) haven't even

completed a business case to see if the project is viable.

"Already, public transport advocates and planning experts have joined our call for the

Metro to be shelved.

"Any system that doesn't compliment Cross River Rail is a complete waste of

ratepayer money.

"Graham Quirk is more interested in building a monument to himself than delivering

credible, beneficial public transport solutions for this city." ...

[#Metro]

I can now count three people who have come to the same conclusion that I have. A combined alignment with CRR makes logical sense.

"Any system that doesn't compliment Cross River Rail is a complete waste of ratepayer money.

What I don't understand, is why Cr. Peter Cumming has not attacked the guts of this proposal and ripped into the fact that the metro has a capacity of 9000 pphd. The purpose of a metro upgrade is to increase capacity, and yet Quack Metro will reduce capacity.

At that point, the proposal is dead.

There is no need to make any other argument. Dealing with side issues like rate increases, etc is all inessential once it becomes obvious that the capacity is not there.

[verbatim9]

The state government has been pretty quiet on this !?

[mufreight]

The concept is that absurd that no response is warranted, Mr Quirk would be more productive if he gave CRR his support instead of wasting the ratepayers money on a pie in the sky absurdity that will cost the ratepayers more than the grand visions of Tunnels Newman with less benefit.

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter's response to Brisbane City Council's propaganda leaflet for the Brisbane Metro Subway System.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/brisbane-metro-subway-system-cut-crap.html

[#Metro]

Are the BCC going to disclose who is going to receiving the millions of dollars for a business case.  Is this company or persons going to be receiving any praise or endorsement from reputable moderators like Engineers Australia.

Why not hire a few traffic and civil engineering experts and just ask, "apart from money, what is stopping this project".   

A timely comment hey? Look at what got published in the Brisbane Times. LNP 'Washing Machine'.

Brisbane councillors give ratepayer funds to LNP-linked company and donors
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-councillors-give-ratepayer-funds-to-lnplinked-company-and-donor-20160615-gpjxh9.html

"Brisbane City Council's Labor opposition has estimated tens of thousands of dollars of ratepayers' money would have flowed to Parakeelia, a controversial company with Liberal Party links, since 2009."

This is just for the flow of data so they can track your political stripes on their system. The parties go out to the AEC and download that registration data and then any time you have contact with them, they log it in their database against your file. Would be interesting to see exactly what data they have hey?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

16th June 2016

Comment on Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's Massive Rates Rise

Greetings,

Has the penny dropped at Brisbane City Council yet?

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk has now increased rates massively to fund his 'Quack Metro'.

He is also increasing rates to cover subsidies for the bus system. He says that "Our commitment to subsidise public transport continues to be a drain." Of course, it is a drain. Brisbane City Council's bus network has not been properly reformed. It is inefficient. It leaves entire areas of Brisbane without decent service. We have been saying this for years. Our exasperated members have even put their own bus reform proposal to fix it > http://tiny.cc/newnetwork

Unlike Quirk's 'Quack' Metro, bus reform is broadly cost neutral because it re-arranges existing bus service to be more frequent and useful. Also the number of near empty buses clogging up the CBD will be reduced. It can be done with or without an infrastructure spend, at a fraction of the cost of the metro pipe-dream. How much more pain do the people of Brisbane have to endure just because Brisbane City Council does not want to engage in a full and proper bus network reform program?

Why is it so hard to do the obvious, right thing?

Could it be that the Lord Mayor is against transfers or interchanging? How can this be if his metro will force everyone to transfer? And the thousands of passengers left stranded forced onto ever worsening road congestion to get around.

Could it be that the Lord Mayor has eschewed bus reforms because he intends on building a metro? No, Brisbane City Council's buses cannot drive on the busway when metro trains are also running on it. So the bus network would have to be massively reformed anyway.

Lord Mayor Quirk yesterday said the state is doing nothing about the bus congestion in effect.  It was Lord Mayor Quirk and BCC that stopped the bus reform in 2013.  They refused to cooperate with TransLink. It is clear why the Brisbane bus network is failing - it is actually BCC's fault. That is reality.

Broad opposition to the Lord Mayor's 'Quack Metro' proposal is now building. The Lord Mayor is not listening - to us or others who have very valid criticisms. Basic public process in transport mode selection, route alignment, community consultation and alternatives analysis has been recklessly skipped over. At least with the CityGlider Brisbane City Council had the good grace to perform public consultation and alternatives analysis comparing Light Rail to Bus Rapid Transit before finally settling on buses as the mode of choice.

Our members absolutely do not support his proposal. Mathematically, with 300-person capacity rubber tyre trains the capacity of this metro will be significantly less than the current busway. Re-read that again - significantly less than the current busway. The purpose of a metro upgrade is to increase capacity, and yet the Quirk Metro will reduce capacity, and turn inner Brisbane public transport into chaos.

Where is the sense in that? Why waste billions of ratepayers dollars on a non-solution?

The Lord Mayor will be forced to introduce larger trains (750 passengers/train at minimum) that are likely to be too heavy to travel over the Victoria Bridge, and radically alter the alignment of his metro. Costs will explode at this point as further tunnels and station extensions and re-construction will be needed.

Has BCC actually asked if the the State Government will allow the busways to be wrecked for this non-solution before wasting $16 million dollars on an absurd business case?

Why have councillors and the media not picked up on these simple facts? Do facts matter?

Will the State Government step in and stop this absurdity before more ratepayers funds are wasted?

The correct course of action from here is for Lord Mayor Quirk admit his metro proposal is not achievable.  Commence bus network reform.  Work in coordination with TMR and develop a real metro proposal that Brisbane will need down the track.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Attached: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg175702#msg175702 ]

[ozbob]

BrizCommuter's response to Brisbane City Council's propaganda leaflet for the Brisbane Metro Subway System.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/brisbane-metro-subway-system-cut-crap.html

Thanks Briz   

============

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now Brisbane, Queensland

BrizCommuter: Brisbane Metro Subway System - Propaganda Response

> http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/brisbane-metro-subway-system-cut-crap.html ... #qldpol

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

17th June 2016

Quirk Metro is a nonsense

Good Morning,

Brisbane City Council has a lot of form when it comes to ' embellishing ' and  ' misrepresenting ' the benefits of transport projects.

The classic of course was suggesting ' 2000 daily express buses on Legacy Way ' and then failing to ensure the connections were done to the Inner Northern Busway (1). Belatedly after years of pressure moves now are being done to finally enable a connection of sorts in a compromise, better than nothing but far from ideal and inferior to what would have been achieved had the right thing be done at construction.

Similarly we have misrepresentations now concerning the ' Quirk Metro ' .  It is nonsense and a tremendous waste of rate-payer funds as we and others have shown conclusively.

Brisbane is falling further and further behind from a transport perspective.  The Quirk Metro is the latest in a long line of transport fiascos supported by the Lord Mayor.

Who can forget the ' Cleveland Solution ', which featured trams in the Brisbane River! [ See ]

or the Bus and Train (BaT) tunnel - which senior LNP sources informed the Courier Mail  was never actually going to be built?

It is time that Lord Mayor Quirk and Brisbane City Council were held to account for this metro con job and the waste of rate-payer funds.  Appalling.

The Quirk Metro is an intellectual fraud, it has no logical basis.

Best wishes

Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

1. 4 Mar 2012: SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it ..
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7798.0

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 29 minutes ago Brisbane, Queensland

Latest media: ' @Team_Quirk Metro is a nonsense '

> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg175751#msg175751 ... #qldpol

Done like a dinner Brisbane!

[ozbob]

Opp Leader @CrPeterCumming says Brisbane Metro is a @Team_Quirk vanity project. He won't listen to transport experts who know it won't work.

— Shayne Sutton (@CrShayne) June 16, 2016

[ozbob]

LM: #Brisbane Metro and Cross River #Rail need to be complementary, not competing, projects. #infrastructure #transport

— Team Quirk (@Team_Quirk) June 17, 2016

^

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 55 seconds ago Brisbane, Queensland

. @Team_Quirk true if the Metro had real capacity and was sensible. Need to have 6-8 car trains 30,000 pax/hour/direction. Present absurd.

[ozbob]

. @Team_Quirk Paris MP14 8 car rubber tyre metro ..30,000 + pphpd automatic
> https://t.co/rPibITkUaP#qldpol real metro not #quackmetro

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) June 17, 2016

[#Metro]

LM: #Brisbane Metro and Cross River #Rail need to be complementary, not competing, projects. #infrastructure #transport

What could be more complimentary than merging both projects into one?

[Derwan]

What could be more complimentary than merging both projects into one?

One that offers interchanges but follows two different routes. 

But yes - instead of "one or the other", the combined tunnel under the river may serve as a compromise.

OR we push for bus reform now... do CRR alone... then build a proper metro on a different route later.

[#Metro]

One that offers interchanges but follows two different routes.

But it is a different route. It is different to the current QR approach into the CBD (via South Bank)
and different to Quirk's metro, which is going via South Bank and the Victoria Bridge.

A combined project would go via Wooloongabba. What alternative route were you thinking of?

Bus reform can be done with or without an infrastructure spend. That's how flexible it is.

Indeed the original concept did have the SEB converted to metro, however I removed that as I didn't believe that anyone
would consider actual conversion. Clearly, I was wrong. The LM is happy to put $$ on the table, but at the moment he is putting the cash on the wrong horse, so to speak.

There is mutual benefit from combining the 2 projects. It means a large part of the CRR cost would be shared with BCC. That would catalyse both state government and fed contributions also.

So the most productive path at the moment is to (a) push through bus reform (has to be done anyway as areas outside the metro have to be fixed a la Centenary, Bulimba etc) and (b) have the LM alter his plans to combine with CRR (because he clearly is not dropping the project) and increase train size.

A metro on the SEB would support trains every 5 minutes in peak hour. So there is no need to wait until "later" (read: kill off the project).

With a project like this, all options should be considered. Including combined. It would be a win for us (good part of CRR funded, Quirk gets his metro, State Gov gets part of CRR paid, and pax get both an upgrade of the SEB and excellent interchange at Wooloongabba, the CBD and Roma Street).

It ticks all the boxes.

[Derwan]

One that offers interchanges but follows two different routes.

But it is a different route.

No - it would be the same route as CRR between Woolloongabba and Roma St - servicing the same stations.  That's my point.  Certainly not ideal.

[#Metro]

No - it would be the same route as CRR between Woolloongabba and Roma St - servicing the same stations.  That's my point.  Certainly not ideal.

You may not think it is ideal, but I disagree with you there.

Wooloongabba - change to SEB services to access Mater Hospital, South Bank etc (which would remain busway)

CBD - This is a main CBD station, similar to Central, so it makes sense there

Roma Street - Connect to all other QR lines.

Exactly which alternative superior alignment did you have in mind? Do you have a map?

[Gazza]

I'd spend the money proposed for the metro finishing the busways.

And have CRR as the primary north south mass transit tunnel at least for the next decade or two.

[#Metro]

Merge the two projects into one. First $1.5 BN funding for Cross River Rail thus automatically paid for by Brisbane City Council.
===
Brisbane Metro and Cross River Rail proposed for same Woolloongabba land

"The proposed (Metro) route is strikingly similar to that of the state government's proposed Cross River Rail – and on current alignment will even apparently share a station at Woolloongabba," Cr Cumming said.

Cr Quirk said he believed the state government would allow the council to use the site at Woolloongabba.

"What we have to do is make sure that the designs of both projects dovetail into each other, and not become competing projects," he said.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-metro-and-cross-river-rail-proposed-for-same-woolloongabba-land-20160617-gplzo8.html

[Gazza]

First $1.5 BN funding for Cross River Rail thus automatically paid for by Brisbane City Council.

Presuming that the larger station boxes and larger tunnel cross section don't add 1.5 billion to the cost of the tunnel.

[Gazza]

Exactly which alternative superior alignment did you have in mind? Do you have a map?

Something like this?
<<<UQ-West End-Casino-Golden Triangle-Central-Spring Hill>>>>

[#Metro]

Something like this?
<<<UQ-West End-Casino-Golden Triangle-Central-Spring Hill>>>>

If that's the proposal you want to pursue, great. I'd rather have the SEB converted to metro.

The busway already pushes the lower bound of metro systems already, huge efficiency would be realised by a combined project. It would also eventually connect into UQ, either directly or by crosstown bus connection.

Bus reform can still go ahead, has to be done anyway. The Mayor won an election on it and has moved now to raise rates to pay for a metro, so its not just all talk. I think the most productive path forward is to have the State Government and Brisbane City Council meet in the middle and combine both their projects into one, with major modifications to the metro (larger trains, automation, combined alignment through the CBD).

[ozbob]

Media release 18th June 2016

Brisbane:  Time to abandon the Metro pipe-dream Lord Mayor

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said the Quirk Metro proposal for Brisbane is seriously flawed and needs to be halted before more ratepayers funds are squandered (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The fundamental flaw with the Quirk Metro proposal is that it only delivers 9,000 passengers/hour/direction (pphpd). The busways deliver around 15,000 pphpd (1)."

"Team Quirk has misrepresented the capacity of the proposed metro to the citizens of Brisbane as being 30,000 per hour.  This is a fraudulent misrepresentation in our opinion.  Using data supplied by Team Quirk (2) we have definitely shown that the peak capacity is only 9,000 pphpd."

"Other transport experts have shown that the route alignment and network effects are very adverse and the proposed metro will actually wreck inner Brisbane public transport (3, 4, 5)."

"We call on Lord Mayor Quirk to abandon this nonsensical project and commence bus network reform.  Continue to work in coordination with TMR and develop a real metro proposal with the passenger capacity (at least 30,000 pphpd) that Brisbane will need down the track."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

1. Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's Metro vs Mathematics > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg174616#msg174616

2. Team Quirk ' Metro ' Information Request > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11952.msg175060#msg175060

3. Will Graham Quirk's Brisbane Metro become a reality?  7news.com.au #bnetraffic #7News http://snpy.tv/1rrPNhy

4. Four key reasons metro plan is flawed > http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/news-story/270fcb35a4e60b5379e47ff73893763d

5. Brisbane Metro Subway System - Propaganda Response > http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/brisbane-metro-subway-system-cut-crap.html

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

18th June 2016

Re: Brisbane: Time to abandon the Metro pipe-dream Lord Mayor

Greetings,

Team Quirk has stated proposed train frequency is 2 minutes and max pax capacity of the trains is 300.

This is 9000 pphpd. (Simple arithmetic 30 x 300 = 9,000)

You do not spend billions of dollars to deliver less capacity than the existing transport system (Busway delivers 15,000 pphpd).  Where will the stranded passengers go?

It is time Brisbane media held BCC and Lord Mayor Quirk to account for this nonsense and shocking waste of ratepayer funds.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ Attached: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12302.0 ]

[#Metro]

Quack! by Hans Splinter, on Flickr. Creative Commons NO Derivatives (CC BY-ND 2.0)

[ozbob]

^ waiting for a quack metro at Herston ...   

[ozbob]

A song for the ' quack metro ' ...

[kram0]

Government has no money, so realistically metro or CRR is nothing more then a brochure and is unlikely to change. Pitt and Anna2 confirmed this last week with on $50mill in the budget. They are not taking it seriously and are just trying to find time to do as little as possible.

[ozbob]

Yep appalling situation.  Brisbane is headed for transport ruin ... 

BCC has a lot of form with misleading punters - ' 2000 daily express buses on Legacy Way ' was a low light.

Simply cannot be trusted.  The fact they have misrepresented the metro capacity is just par for the course with this mob.

Staff morale at BCC must be rock-bottom being forced to pedal bullsh%t.

Onwards!

[ozbob]

@Team_Quirk metro has only 60% passenger capacity of present busway
> https://t.co/hbGMGOP3GG#qldpol wtf ? pic.twitter.com/NYrraxR62X

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) June 18, 2016