LNP: Brisbane Metro Plan

[verbatim9]

7 News said 6 years to build. So 2022 just for that small line. 🚍

[CQRail]

The busways that old Quirky intends on running this metro across are State controlled roads, can't see the Government handing them over, same with the GoPrint site. One does wonder if this one factored in at any stage..

[BrizCommuter]

I saw somewhere mention of six years to build I think.

Where are all the empty rockets going to go during this six year period?

More importantly, where are all the 200+ buses per hour that currently run through the inner SE Busway going to go during this 6 year period?

[#Metro]

More importantly, where are all the 200+ buses per hour that currently run through the inner SE Busway going to go during this 6 year period?

Probably up over the Captain Cook Bridge.

Some would terminate at train stations (lol), for example, Park Road.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1st February 2016

Brisbane metro proposal is not new

Source:

Greetings,

There seems to be some confusion over a new Brisbane Metro. Metro was first mentioned in the Lord Mayor's Mass Transit Report as a future concept for Brisbane. The Bligh Government took the idea and made it official Queensland Government Policy. This is why a subway for Brisbane features in the Connecting SEQ 2031 document.

The current premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk was Transport minister at the time and actually signed this report. Her photo and signature appears in the Foreword of the report.  A video accompanying the Connecting SEQ 2031 document clearly shows a subway, separate from both the current QR rail network and Cross River Rail.

"With an extra 100 000 people forecast to live in inner Brisbane (CBD, Spring Hill, Milton, South Brisbane and Fortitude Valley) and employment numbers doubling by 2031, there will be about 2.4 million trips a day in the inner city (up from one million in 2006). To help distribute these trips across the vibrant inner city core, an entirely new and separate Brisbane subway is proposed. The London Underground and New York city subway are well-known examples of this style of rail operation".

The construction of a subway or metro system for Brisbane isn't just the Lord Mayor's Policy, it is also the policy of former Governments.

Any metro in Brisbane must be automatic, as per international standards. It will not be long until cars and buses are also self-driving and automatic.  The Lord Mayor's proposed metro is not for a true driverless metro.  This will have ongoing operating cost implications and restrict overall train frequency.

It is time to stop playing political games with the public transport system. These games are the reason why the entire system is falling apart, and why Brisbane now faces a transit crisis situation within the bus and busway network.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

State government gives cool reception to Lord Mayor's Brisbane Metro plan
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-government-gives-cool-reception-to-lord-mayors-brisbane-metro-plan-20160131-gmi66j.html

Connecting SEQ 2031 Queensland Government


https://brisbanedevelopment.com/connecting-seq-2031/

Lord Mayors Mass Transit Report (2007)
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/sept07_final_report_brisbane_mass_transit_investigation_lmt.pdf

Connecting SEQ 2031
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Projects/C/Connecting%20SEQ%202031/final/connecting_seq2031_complete.pdf

[ozbob]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/quirky-brisbane-metro-capacity.html
Wow, two BrizCommuter posts in one day. This one looks at the claimed capacity figure of 30,000 passengers/hour.

Well done thanks.  It is been sent to all outlets as a follow up.

There is much spin and bluster going on.  Will the media actually grasp the real story or be LM propaganda outlets?

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane mayoral race a battle between light rail and 'fancy buses'

[ozbob]

The busways that old Quirky intends on running this metro across are State controlled roads, can't see the Government handing them over, same with the GoPrint site. One does wonder if this one factored in at any stage..

Yo.  The thought has crossed me mind too.  Not sure if this was discussed with the State prior to the launch yesterday.  Perhaps they think they can just force it? 

I have little doubt that a blue State Govt would simply roll over and allow a half baked solution to proceed, as we saw with the bus review.  How the present Govt takes this is really up in the air, particularly with the delicate balance.

[ozbob]

Memo to Brisbane Lord Mayor Candidates

Brisbane's Lord Mayor Graham Quirk is now pushing network reform in broad principle, from the old failed direct service model, to a more informed, connected and better trunk and feeder model.  BCC has steadfastly refused to undertake proper network reform until now -  clinging obstinately to a high cost, inefficient, non connected network.  The Lord Mayor now thinks that in the interests of improved capacity and functionality passengers can now transfer into a high frequency mass transit corridor (the proposed Brisbane Metro).  He has said that buses will be freed up for deployment into the suburbs.  Fascinating stuff.

Bus network reform today will deliver more buses freed up for the suburbs.  We have shown how this can be done.  Treating the existing busways and rail lines as high frequency mass transit corridors, a much improved public transport network for Brisbane can be delivered.

Do we have wait for another 8 years?  Do we have to spend billions of dollars first?  Or can we move on with fixing today's network at near neutral cost.  This is the fundamental question facing Brisbane.

How network reform can be delivered >> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11047.msg167865#msg167865

[ozbob]

I have just done an interview (pre-record) with Steve Austin 612 ABC Radio Mornings, should be on between 8.30-9am now after 9am news this morning.

Thanks for the opportunity to chat Steve & 612 ABC.

[ozbob]

^ basically said that a Metro concept for Brisbane is needed, however pointed out some of the issues with the Team Quirk proposal, and that cooperation with the State is needed to deliver a much better automated metro for Brisbane.  Pointed out that CRR and metro have long been seen as coexisting needs and will complement each other. Metro is not new. Mentioned that LM has changed his broad network view, and that we need to start now with network reform, use our existing busways and rail lines as high capacity transit corridors and abandon the direct service model, so that improved transport outcomes can be delivered now and in the future. 

[James]

Hate to say it, but while in principle this is an admission that the network is woefully broken, I would not be surprised just to see a million rocket buses and low-frequency services all fired at Wooloongabba and Herston.

I think the most disappointing part of this is that the metro will not be automated and likely feature ugly overhead power lines. I'd happily see an extra $1bn spent in order to send it into a tunnel between Normanby and the Melbourne St portal so it can become automated and remain off the Victoria Bridge. This should remove a lot of the turning circle issues too.

I'm also not totally in favour of removing cars from the Victoria Bridge - I still think this road serves an important link in the local road network in that area - in particular, driving between South Bank and the CBD. PT is not always operational, and the alternative bridges are too far away (being CCB and William Jolly, both of which are much longer in distance and time, particularly for short trips). I don't mean to sound like the RACQ, but I'd like to see some modelling as to the traffic impact that the brief surface running of the metro would have.

[ozbob]

I think we all agree that an automated metro is needed.  We do not need other half baked solution.

[#Metro]

What strikes me is that this was the Lord Mayor that said "The bus network isn't broken, we don't need a radical overhaul..."

now 2 years later, the bus network is on the verge of collapse, all the main CBD stations are overcapacity, etc etc...

[Jonno]

This is a white wash. Lord Mayor does not see public transport as a priority.  This is political me-too with no real intent to build. Lord Mayor still believes the old balanced approach which ends up prioritising road transport is the way to go!

If light rail can not go across the bridge how can a metro? 

Edit: I just do not see it as a priority rather than focusing on the transport in the suburbs?

It will also remove CRR from funding pool for another decade!!

[#Metro]

There is no doubt that the bridge would require strengthening (or a new bridge), for either LRT or metro.

Let's be clear: this is an above board, legit, METRO. It is not 'fancy buses' just because it has rubber tyres. Light Rail can run in Priority A and Priority B ROW, Metro can only run in Priority A ROW (due the frequency, vehicle length and high voltage third rail).

The metro can be combined with CRR if a double deck tunnel option is taken. That would meet State Government requirements and instead of 2 projects competing against each other for federal funding, only a single combined project would be offered to the Feds to fund.

Honestly, the politics are toxic, there is just too much scope for game-playing and the State Government is so unstable (due to short terms of gov't) and out of money it cannot deliver CRR unless there is a miracle. It has had 7 years to deliver it, not a single sleeper for CRR has been laid.

[#Metro]

I think that the system is more than broken, it has a status beginning with 'F'. 

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2016/02/proposed-brisbane-metro-needs-to-be-automated-lobby-group.html

Mornings with Steve Austin

Proposed Brisbane metro needs to be automated, lobby group

In an effort to improve Brisbane's public transport system, Lord Mayor Graham Quirk has announced a $1.54 billion high frequency subway system proposal.

Effectively, it's a Brisbane metro.

The LNP's rubber-wheeled metro would use a combination of Brisbane's existing busways. Cars would no longer be allowed on the Victoria Bridge.

Labor's Lord Mayoral candidate Rod Harding is pushing for light rail.

Steve spoke to Robert Dow who is from transport lobby group Rail Back on Track.

>>  http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2016/02/proposed-brisbane-metro-needs-to-be-automated-lobby-group.html

[#Metro]

Automated
It needs to be automated for high frequency, as the computer will be running the trains very close together by monitoring the distance between trains and the speed that they are going at, and calculating 'moving blocks'. A person sitting in the drivers seat cannot do this, and pretty much would be doing nothing / reading a book if they were included, especially if services were 1.5 minutes apart, like is proposed in future years.

I think QR drivers are on something like $80K per year, so this is not going to be small money if (unnecessary) drivers are included!!

'Fancy Bus' disinformation
Second, I have seen some people (nameless) spreading deliberate misinformation that the rubber tyre metro is 'fancy buses' in an attempt to Pooh-Pooh the proposal. I think if someone called the Paris Metro a fancy bus system, the French would be very outraged!!

Montreal, rubber tyre metro

Paris Metro, rubber tyres

There are better things in PT policy than wondering if the tyre is steel or rubber. And clearly, from the video, these are TRAINS and not buses.

[#Metro]

Brizcommuter article

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/quirky-brisbane-metro-capacity.html

If the metro is made automatic, it can be run every 1.5 minutes with moving block signalling.

This make the calculation (assuming Paris standards)

722 pax x 40 trains/hour = 28 880 pphd

[#Metro]

90 second headways seem possible in general, perhaps on this proposed metro also.

Independent reference: TTC

http://alstomsignalingsolutions.com/Data/Documents/Train_Control_2011_12_Alstom_Catalog_May26-5.pdf

CBTC is the current generation of advanced train control technology using radio and
modern network technology. Alstom's solution allows for more efficient operation and makes
it possible to increase train frequency and transport capacity. The system is capable of
providing headway of 90 seconds or better under normal operating conditions, allowing
the TTC to run more trains, and therefore carry more passengers in less time

Conclusion: 30 000 pphd is about right.

This also has implications for general QR trains as well. PTUA Melbourne claims resignalling can get trains moving closer together, increasing capacity http://www.ptua.org.au/2013/08/10/trains-better-signalling/

[ozbob]

Just completed an interview with 7 News at Goodna Rail.  Just as about to start a mini-super-storm cell with a mini tornado of sorts came through.

I jumped up onto the seat in the bus shelter, managed to keep top half dry. If I make the cut, won't look like a drowned rat.

Must be an omen, the winds of change ..

See the things we have to go through?   

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

1st February 2016

Paris Metro: Not all trains have steel wheels!

Greetings,

Video: Bir-Hakeim station, close to the Eiffel Tower, showing the Paris Metro trains and their rubber tyres

Not all trains have steel wheels. This does not mean that they are 'fancy buses'. The Paris Metro has trains that run on rails, but have rubber tyres. Anybody describing a rubber tyre metro as 'Light Rail' or 'Buses' is incorrect.

Trains can come with steel wheels or rubber tyres. Indeed, some trains don't have any wheels at all. Maglev trains, don't have wheels, for example.

Hysteria abounds!  Lets clear this up.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

Bir-Hakeim Station, Paris Metro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir-Hakeim_(Paris_M%C3%A9tro)

Montreal Metro, Canada

[#Metro]

Rod Harding is out on Facebook DELIBERATELY spreading bullsh*t about rubber tyre metros being buses.

Sorry, but I just cannot stand by and have people lie their head off. It is this kind of nonsense that sunk the bus review in 2013, and we

just CANNOT have it happen AGAIN. Call it out!!

"After 30 years in Council Graham Quirk's big idea for Brisbane is fancy buses on our busways.

This is not the great leap forward in public transport that Brisbane is calling out for."

https://www.facebook.com/rod4bris/photos/a.465784270235858.1073741829.457658091048476/584787808335503/?type=3&theater

[ozbob]

ALP have lost it.  Light rail was the wrong thing to move with.  Calling rubber tyre metros ' fancy buses ' just indicates they are a bit flummoxed.

Ideas, policies have to stand on real merit.

I would point out how proper network reform can deliver very significant improvements without massive capital costs.  Be a logical counter rather than the flawed ' fancy bus ' stuff.

State Government doesn't seem to understand the need for fixing the mess either.  They just nod.  Nod here, nod there ... another review, another plan.  Brisbane is not going to be a happy place in the years to come.  Will be an absolute mess.  At least we try.

[#Metro]

Just INCREDIBLE

stay tuned for more announcements on my plan for BCC public transport. Given Quirk's past plans include $20 million in bus cuts, I don't really have that much faith in something that costs millions for some fancy buses. 30 years in council is simply enough for Graham Quirk.

Light Rail came first in Sydney. Quirk's Metro plan is just building fancy buses on busways that Labor Government's built. Stay tuned during the campaign for more positive public transport announcements.

Don't get me wrong - the transitways ideas he has and level crossing removals are low cost and sound proposals. Just. Don't. Lie. !!

Mr Harding, A metro is also State Government ALP policy

[#Metro]

(Train with no wheels - Maglev)

I guess when Rod Harding meant 'tram' did he mean? What do you reckon Gazza? looks like a 'tram' eh?


Image: Passenger with Light Rail Vehicle https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2625/3946946775_b3cfb6afeb_b.jpg

(Ironically, an alternative name for Tram is TROLLEY, generally North Americans use it or the word Streetcar)

[verbatim9]

They are calling it the (Red line)

Alstom could be the preferred tender!?

http://brisbanedevelopment.com/brisbane-city-council-propose-brisbane-metro/

[verbatim9]

I am happy if they build a red and blue line together. The Herston to Gabba and Newstead to UQ.

[#Metro]

Rod Harding appears to think the Paris metro is a bus system. 
I can only wonder what the French Government / RATP think of this.

Graham Quirk's plan for fancy buses means that billions will be spent on vehicles that have rubber wheels and use existing busway infrastructure. $1.5 billion on some fancy buses doesn't sound like a good investment for the future to me. Light rail on the other hand does. That's why I'm looking into it.

And Light Rail? Placing LRT on the busway has NO capacity gain. It would be at capacity on opening day.

A tram every 1.5 minutes is 40 trams/hour x 300 pax = 12 000 pphd, what the busway already carries now.

[ozbob]

Well this has certainly driven a lot of interest into public transport around Brisbane, that is good.

Need to wait now as see what the other candidates put forward.  Greens have not yet declared their hand.  I expect ALP will put out more on their light rail too. 

[#Metro]

It seems that Rod Harding comments re: trains similar to those on the Paris Metro being "fancy buses" have made some French people angry! 

This is hilarous!!

[ozbob]

7 News

Plans for transport

>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30707722/brisbane-transport-plans/#page1

The race for City Hall will be about easing the rat race in Brisbane by improving public transport. Today The Lord Mayor's $1.5 billion dollar "subway style" system has attracted heavy scrutiny.
Katrina Blowers reports.

[#Metro]

Looks great, couldn't see the foam storm!

Light Rail and Metro would probably both require strengthening of the Victoria Bridge.

[ozbob]

I will always remember this interview LD.  The first, and hopefully the only one with very wet trousers, shoes and socks!

[verbatim9]

7 News

Plans for transport

>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30707722/brisbane-transport-plans/#page1

The race for City Hall will be about easing the rat race in Brisbane by improving public transport. Today The Lord Mayor's $1.5 billion dollar "subway style" system has attracted heavy scrutiny.
Katrina Blowers reports.

50-50 split there from 7news survey. It looked like they had a whole network grid up there for other metro lines in that segment?

[kaykayt]

Will Quirk be able to deliver the promise???

BATty didn't even get delivered even though they were in cooperation with both state and federal governments. 

[verbatim9]

We do need a weather proof mass transit system though. Underground metro is the way to go for that!

[BrizCommuter]

Quite concerning that neither own the candidates seem to support the most urgently required solutions - bus reform and supporting CRR. I guess foam attracts more votes.

Rod Harding's "Fancy Bus" comments won't win him any votes. I think he's shot himself in the foot.

[newbris]

As an aside, I think it will be a bit of disaster for us here in the inner west.

Looks like:
- the maroon glider will be cut.
- the buses that currently use the busway from roma st will all be sent the long way around to adelaide st (why the 379/380/381 can take ages longer in peak).
- and the 385 BUZ will be off the busway doing the long north quay loop around to adelaide st as well.

With the lateral cross suburb glider gone it will be all buses to the city again....back to taking up to 1 hour to travel from Paddington into the city and back out to Ashgrove again (and vice versa). Currently takes 5 minutes cross suburb on the glider.

I guess those on musgrave/waterworks rd living in one of the most dense parts of suburban Brisbane have to be happy with the 380/381 pair bringing the dazzling off peak frequency of a bus every 30 minutes going round the houses just to travel to a city 2 to 4km away. Useless.