Logan region - bus

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> More frequent cross-Logan bus routes tops the wish list of a community group looking into the city's public transport services

MORE frequent cross-Logan bus routes is at the top of the wish list for a community group looking into the city's public transport services.

Queensland Community Alliance spokesman Anglican minister Geoff Hoyte said the group would like to see a commitment in February next year from local and state governments to provide these extra services.

"We want them to have a plan in February – we don't want them to procrastinate," he said.

An alliance survey of 656 Logan residents conducted on November 23 this year showed 40 per cent rated the city's public transport as poor or very poor.

A total of 83 per cent supported the introduction of high-frequency buses in existing areas and minibuses in new developments, while 75 per cent believed Logan City Council should contribute financially to improving the quality of local public transport.

Council's Roads and Water Infrastructure Committee chairman Cr Don Petersen said public transport needed to be addressed on a regional or metropolitan level, not a council-by-council basis.

"Let's talk numbers. Between them, the Federal and State Governments endorsed annual budgets worth almost $500 billion for the current financial year," Cr Petersen said.

"Logan City Council's 2015/16 budget was just under $840 million.

"Those numbers indicate that the higher tiers of government are clearly in a better position to fund public transport than council."

Cr Petersen said despite being on a joint Transport Working Group with City of Choice and Council and despite being asked repeatedly for details of their survey, Queensland Community Alliance had not provided any information on the methodology or independence of their survey.

"If Queensland Community Alliance is willing to share their information, we would be happy to discuss it with them," he said.

"It should be noted that any push by Queensland Community Alliance for Council to contribute funding towards public transport would affect everyone in the community through increased rates and the diversion of funding from other programs and services."

The group has also suggested high-frequency services every 10-15 minutes connecting key hubs for community, work, education and services.

[nathandavid88]

High frequency cross town routes? As a user of several of Logan's cross town buses, I'm not sure if the patronage is there to warrant running 15 minute cross town services. Exactly which services would they propose for "BUZing", dare I ask?

With regards to service improvements, I would be concentrating first off on getting all core cross town routes running half hourly (make the 552 half hourly all day and move the 553 and 565 to half hourly) and extending the span to something like 7am–8pm. On top of that revising the Southern portion of the Logan network to better connect Beenleigh and to better service (or service at all in some cases) the new housing developments around Holmview and Waterford to the rest of the network needs to be looked at very soon.

A bit further down the track, servicing and connecting areas further south like Logan Village, Yarrabilba, Jimboomba and even Canungra will need to be investigated, and funding the non-Translink Logan Coaches service that runs between Canungra and Loganlea Station (via Yarrabilba and Logan Village) I believe would be a very good place to start.

[James]

I'm thinking that routes like the 545 or 560 may warrant buses every 15 minutes. Just looking at the road network, the 545 in particular would be a very good candidate. I think it is important to prioritise frequency over coverage now the basics of a network have been established in Logan. I agree with your point on span of hours. Your core routes need to be running at least 6am - 9pm 7 days a week in order to justify frequency upgrades.

Re: Logan Village and further out, I don't have much sympathy for people who live out that far. I'd much rather see an increase in service in the Logan area compared to a bus out to Yarrabilba. The township out there is quite small anyway and has very little aside from a few hundred houses (if that), a bus service is going to get very low patronage. If Logan Coaches can run a profitable PT service in the area and succeed, all the more power to them. If you want PT, move somewhere which is more populated and not in the middle of nowhere.

[SurfRail]

^ Wishful thinking in the extreme.

I think from the existing network, the ones that might be suitable for running at high-frequency would be:

- 545
- 555 (update so no more diversions via Shailer Park except for the N555 services - other than these, run all of them non-stop from Springwood to the Hyperdome)
- 550
- 560

The "maybes" I would consider to be the 554 and 572, but I would want to see a lot of improvements in other regions of the network before these 2 get up.

[James]

QLDBUS, let's be realistic here - we don't have the money to fund such a network, and I really doubt the demand is there for so many high frequency routes.

The fact is, all else equal, people will use their car because:
a) The car is convenient (it goes straight to your doorstep, you do not stop to let off other passengers)
b) The car is your own (you can put giant things in it if you have the space, you don't need to deal with the person sitting next to you who hasn't bathed in 2 weeks)
c) The car's route is flexible (can deviate off-route, spontaneously stop for coffee or to pick up a parcel etc.)
The main reasons for people to use PT (assuming they own a car) is:
- Parking - what is car parking like at my destination? (Cost, ease of parking)
- Travel time - how fast is the bus compared to using the car?
- Cost - how much does the bus cost compared to PT?
- Behavioural - Other factors, such as stress of driving, congestion, whether you are under the influence etc.
Parking is not an issue in the Logan area, travel time for Logan buses would still be pretty ordinary even with the high-frequency services, and the cost (as we know) is higher than driving. Put the three major factors together, and it is really difficult for anybody with a car to justify using PT.

As it stands, the density in Logan is pretty low and the demand for bus services rather peaky, as the households in the area tend to be made up all of nuclear families (mum, dad and a few kids) who all work during the day and do family things at local venues on weekend.
If you want a proposal to be taken seriously, you need to suggest a method of funding and suggest a realistic number of high frequency routes. As it stands, you have 11 high frequency routes serving Logan alone (an area with a population of 300,000), half the number of routes serving Brisbane (an area with a population of 1 million+). This is overkill. Logan is not downtown Vancouver or Vienna, it doesn't need the level of transit saturation that either city has.

If Bob went into a meeting asking for 11 high frequency routes to serve Logan, he'd get laughed out of the room. Coming in with a more considered proposal, including increased span of hours, 1-2 additional HF routes with proven patronage and a rationale for changes would be much better received, with a real chance of implementation.

[QLDBUS]

QLDBUS, let's be realistic here - we don't have the money to fund such a network, and I really doubt the demand is there for so many high frequency routes.

The fact is, all else equal, people will use their car because:
a) The car is convenient (it goes straight to your doorstep, you do not stop to let off other passengers)
b) The car is your own (you can put giant things in it if you have the space, you don't need to deal with the person sitting next to you who hasn't bathed in 2 weeks)
c) The car's route is flexible (can deviate off-route, spontaneously stop for coffee or to pick up a parcel etc.)
The main reasons for people to use PT (assuming they own a car) is:
- Parking - what is car parking like at my destination? (Cost, ease of parking)
- Travel time - how fast is the bus compared to using the car?
- Cost - how much does the bus cost compared to PT?
- Behavioural - Other factors, such as stress of driving, congestion, whether you are under the influence etc.
Parking is not an issue in the Logan area, travel time for Logan buses would still be pretty ordinary even with the high-frequency services, and the cost (as we know) is higher than driving. Put the three major factors together, and it is really difficult for anybody with a car to justify using PT.

As it stands, the density in Logan is pretty low and the demand for bus services rather peaky, as the households in the area tend to be made up all of nuclear families (mum, dad and a few kids) who all work during the day and do family things at local venues on weekend.
If you want a proposal to be taken seriously, you need to suggest a method of funding and suggest a realistic number of high frequency routes. As it stands, you have 11 high frequency routes serving Logan alone (an area with a population of 300,000), half the number of routes serving Brisbane (an area with a population of 1 million+). This is overkill. Logan is not downtown Vancouver or Vienna, it doesn't need the level of transit saturation that either city has.

If Bob went into a meeting asking for 11 high frequency routes to serve Logan, he'd get laughed out of the room. Coming in with a more considered proposal, including increased span of hours, 1-2 additional HF routes with proven patronage and a rationale for changes would be much better received, with a real chance of implementation.

Reduced down to only 6 high frequency services

-550 only running High Frequency to kingston station
-555 being extended down to beenleigh giving passengers from the SE Busway a direct service to beenleigh station connecting to the gold coast line and now diverts into queen street station
-P581 an all day city express service for logan and the SE Busway via the cpt cook bridge which was showed to have good patronage on previous route P88 also removal of the 161 to the city would be implemented to stop duplication between the two routes
-all logan buses will stop all stops between 8MP and Buranda which will on add another minute onto the journey which would been the P137 would run express between griffith university and the City



New proposal-https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zyOQoSHIbm5k.kQDy_N3HshrI

[STB]

I would tend to agree that the 545, 550 and 560 should be running every 15mins, although probably not on the weekends.  Not sure about the 554 though, as far as I know that only gets busy in the peak hours and school times, so probably only needs to run every 15mins during peak hour and half hourly the rest of the time.  Other routes I think the patronage demand equals the frequency quite nicely from what I know of the network and anecdotal travelling on the network.  Route 555 could probably be upped to run every 7.5 mins in peak hour from about 3pm onwards, I've seen it packed to the brim at that hour of the day!

[#Metro]

Thanks for preparing the proposal. There is scope for increased frequencies on some buses, certainly the ones on main roads.

I understand that people want to talk about dollars and cents. That is understandable, but upgrades such as these are perhaps the cheapest you can really do compared to anything that requires any construction.

Logan City Council is in a position to make a contribution, through rates for this. State Government would also have to pitch in some as well.

Council rates are tied to land valuations. This makes them efficient and fall on property owners. It is unlikely that increases in rates will push up rents because landowners are already charging profit-maximising market rents. If they try to increase further, tenants can move to areas with lower rents/land valuations.

Land supply within Logan Council boundaries is fixed. The land will not shrink if it is taxed, or run away.

Higher rates will also make land slightly cheaper as well.

Logan City Council should contribute.

[#Metro]

Do we have a rep for the Logan area? If not perhaps we could see if there would be someone to take the post?

[SurfRail]

I suspect a more useful goal would be upgrading all the local routes to run at least hourly until 7-8pm every day, then pick one of the 545, 550 or 560 to run every 15 minutes 7 days a week at least from 7am-7pm.  There is probably a case for a modest spending increase to allow this.

[nathandavid88]

Do we have a rep for the Logan area? If not perhaps we could see if there would be someone to take the post?

If I wasn't so time poor as it is, I'd put my hand up for it. I barely find the time to post on the forum as it is unfortunately.

I suspect a more useful goal would be upgrading all the local routes to run at least hourly until 7-8pm every day, then pick one of the 545, 550 or 560 to run every 15 minutes 7 days a week at least from 7am-7pm.  There is probably a case for a modest spending increase to allow this.

I tend to agree with your points SurfRail. The 545 is probably the first route that I would like to see BUZed (it was one that skipped my mind in my earlier post) because it is such a great backbone route for the suburbs west of the highway connecting 4 important public transport hubs (Browns Plains, Logan Central Bus Station, Woodridge station and Garden City) with even more social hubs. Also, unlike the 550 and 560, it is a main road route and doesn't follow winding, circuitous suburban roads like the 550 and 560.

My concerns with BUZing the 550 and 560 (even though it would be great for me personally) is mainly due to these suburban sections the routes take. I personally think there are other areas to address before BUZing them, the core one being Beenleigh and surrounds. I'd like to see the 553 and 565 both become half hourly, as between them that would create a 15 minute service to Beenleigh that isn't too long a route (10 mins on the 565, ~20 minutes on the 553) and it would improve frequency to Tanah Merah and Windaroo as well.

Re: Logan Village and further out, I don't have much sympathy for people who live out that far. I'd much rather see an increase in service in the Logan area compared to a bus out to Yarrabilba. The township out there is quite small anyway and has very little aside from a few hundred houses (if that), a bus service is going to get very low patronage. If Logan Coaches can run a profitable PT service in the area and succeed, all the more power to them. If you want PT, move somewhere which is more populated and not in the middle of nowhere.

Granted Logan Village and Yarrabilba aren't heavily populated at present, but that won't always be the case. An eventual 50,000 people are slated to be living in Yarrabilba upon completion, plus the people living in the multiple new housing estates being built in surrounding areas. I'm not calling for a BUZ to Canungra or anything stupid, but Translink services will need to be established in time (and Lend Lease are obliged to provide funding towards it – I think they are providing funding to the Logan Coaches service as an interim service), and with Holmview and Edens Landing services really needing to be overhauled, I think it should be included in an sort of PT masterplan for that section of the city, and should start sooner rather than later to try an instill some PT use in the community from the very beginning. Even if it is just a 540-style token service to begin with.

[achiruel]

I do see the 545 as being the best candidate in Logan for improved frequency, however If be surprised if LCBS has the vehicles to cover 15-minute frequency during peak hours (otherwise, surely it would've already been implemented, given how overcrowded this route often is).

[nathandavid88]

I do see the 545 as being the best candidate in Logan for improved frequency, however If be surprised if LCBS has the vehicles to cover 15-minute frequency during peak hours (otherwise, surely it would've already been implemented, given how overcrowded this route often is).

Just pointing out that the 545 isn't a LCBS route, it's a Park Ridge Transit one.

[achiruel]

Oops 

You're absolutely right. Incidentally, does anyone know why this is the case, considering the 550, 551 & 561 cover largely the same areas, yet are LCBS routes?

[ozbob]

Outbound on SMU273 Gold Coast flyer.  Having a meeting at Logan with rep from the Community alliance.  Discussion in this thread very useful thanks. Due at Loganlea 10.40am.

[QLDBUS]

Couriermail Quest -->http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/public-transport-services-leave-logan-city-residents-with-not-a-bus-to-catch-literally/news-story/f357844ea6857d9a638a8bc3474766d0#load-story-comments

LOGAN is the fourth biggest city in Queensland with an economic output of more than $10 billion a year, but try to catch a bus after 7.30pm and you're out of luck.

It is known as a city of battlers and has an unemployment rate of 8.7 per cent, but community leaders say the region's problems are compounded by a lack of public transport.

Now major reform to buses and public transport has become the biggest issue going into the March 19 council elections, as its 300,000 residents are fed up at being left ­behind.Logan East Community and Neighbourhood Association president Geoff Leeming said politicians had argued too long over who had ­responsibility and it needed to change.

"It impacts on people's livelihood, on their cost of living and on their lifestyle," Mr Leeming said.

"One of the hidden problems with transport is that if you don't have private transport you can't get work in some of the largest ­industrial areas like Slacks Creek"It's vital we get more public transport, connecting more people to more places, more often in Logan."

Figures compiled by Queensland Community Alliance show Brisbane has one bus per 1000 people, nearly double Logan's one bus per 1800 people.


Waterford West resident Blaise Itabelo says if he were to leave work late in Brisbane and miss the last bus from ­Loganlea train station, he would have to walk 45 minutes to get home.


"What if it was a young girl 18 years of age working in Brisbane?

"Because of a lack of transport our children are at a very high risk," he said.

Mr Itabelo said his wife had to leave a job at Bethania because there was no way for her to get home if she worked a night shift.

Yarrabilba resident Kate Amos said people in her area only had two buses leaving in the morning and two ­returning in the evening.

"If you don't have a car you can't get out of the suburb," she said.Logan mayoral candidate Luke Smith said if he were elected, the council would contribute money to public transport for the first time, proposing $4 million over four years to target areas such as Greenbank, Park Ridge, Flagstone, Yarrabilba and Jimboomba.

"It's an incentive for the state to. start looking at Logan as a transport priority and we're putting money on the table," he said.

Fellow mayoral candidate Brett Raguse said he would develop a series of shuttle buses, funded by council and developers, to connect regions with existing rail and bus services, costing up to $4 million a year.

"The long-term result is once you prove up the service, TransLink will take it over," he said.

[verbatim9]

Logan and the Gold coast more of a car culture than Brisbane. I think definitely a light rail solution would suit from the Beenleigh line East to Redlands Vic Point then North to meet with the Cleveland line.

[achiruel]

Logan and the Gold coast more of a car culture than Brisbane. I think definitely a light rail solution would suit from the Beenleigh line East to Redlands Vic Point then North to meet with the Cleveland line.

I really don't think putting light rail through a few paddocks is going to be very cost-effective.

And the Gold Coast already has better public transport than Brisbane in many areas. Not so good if you live to the west of the railway line or north of Labrador I guess, but otherwise it's a decent, integrated system.

[QLDBUS]

This Proposal would be tied with the RAILBOTS Brisbane Network proposal and would see routes 111/N111 & P162 removed and would also see a new CBD Stop Pattern

Maps

Current Logan Network: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zyOQoSHIbm5k.kzXtR7EAhoOc
Proposed Logan Network: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zyOQoSHIbm5k.kQDy_N3HshrI&usp=sharing
Interactive Population Map(2014):http://profile.id.com.au/logan
New CBD Stopping Pattern: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zv5qarEMyc6Y.k3FdeXHlm5D8&usp=sharing


Proposed Timetables

P142/P546- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2084&authkey=!AJ1u70BZzwK7sXU
P143- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2082&authkey=!AOArAnt9xqPRPTs
165- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2086&authkey=!ADIljvgltMvkdEw
534- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2088&authkey=!AI_KzxNT5XcmAL0
540- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2090&authkey=!ALSHbRGsP6dUcMg
541- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2092&authkey=!AOO_E6mtZs47atg
542- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2108&authkey=!AEeoMJPgd4M3NDM
545- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2116&authkey=!AD5phQ6I5es9_2c
547- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2110&authkey=!AL3SR_O68oQ3S50
550- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2106&authkey=!AEAFANi87PukeL8
551- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2096&authkey=!AB4GcPpd49WV_t0
552- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2128&authkey=!AAlk-RDvocSHUkE
553- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2078&authkey=!AHAuEOrMtJMbNdU
554- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2098&authkey=!AOzwsU7lTu9YYLY
555- https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2326&app=Excel&authkey=!AAmZdUnGW74XN6I
560- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2122&authkey=!APNjNBIv9SdiaoQ
562/563- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2120&authkey=!AGhSyTK77qMT9e8
565/566- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2104&authkey=!ALX-eDfmzzUqg2c
567- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2100&authkey=!ABQpSn3Q-5AfJRI
P569- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2324&authkey=!AMgLSAcBaM_aPoY
570/571- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2328&authkey=!ANdEugwUif7uCpI
572/573- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2114&authkey=!AOgvgiMkDA7kddc
574/575- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2124&authkey=!AO23QITXz-jibu4
576/577- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2112&authkey=!ANlNn3U0-JadI90
578/579- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2126&authkey=!AGsWGEVgn_Cp2cI
P581- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2322&authkey=!AET27Cri1_hugAo
950- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2130&authkey=!ADmwqqnR_ESCuGo
954- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2102&authkey=!ANNyuB7y2mJbLbM
955- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2102&authkey=!ANNyuB7y2mJbLbM
N555- https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2330&app=Excel&authkey=!AB0SmhA7lQ2UBmU

Note:Redlands Route 282 would be upgraded to a 30 minute Frequency with extened operateing hours 7 days a week and a slight route change

[verbatim9]

Logan and the Gold coast more of a car culture than Brisbane. I think definitely a light rail solution would suit from the Beenleigh line East to Redlands Vic Point then North to meet with the Cleveland line.

I really don't think putting light rail through a few paddocks is going to be very cost-effective.

Land resumption would be cheap then. Remember those paddocks are going to be turned into a new suburb of another 100,000. P.S Not against more busses but a clean light rail system connecting to heavy rail @ The Cleveland line and Beenleigh/Gold Coast line passing through established and the new planned suburbs. Lrt Stations can wait where premises are still to be built to keep costs down initially.

[ozbob]

Thanks for you input QLDBUS.   I need some time to review your work. But there is no doubt that Logan, as is much of SEQ, suffering from lack of span and frequency, whilst the clowns at BCC persist.

[achiruel]

Land resumption would be cheap then. Remember those paddocks are going to be turned into a new suburb of another 100,000. P.S Not against more busses but a clean light rail system connecting to heavy rail @ The Cleveland line and Beenleigh/Gold Coast line passing through established and the new planned suburbs. Lrt Stations can wait where premises are still to be built to keep costs down initially.

There's a big difference between reserving a future corridor, and building something now for which there is basically no demand.

The 282 hardly has any patronage as it is.

[achiruel]

This Proposal would be tied with the RAILBOTS Brisbane Network proposal and would see routes 111 & P162 removed and would also see a new CBD Stop Pattern

Maps

Current Logan Network: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zyOQoSHIbm5k.kzXtR7EAhoOc
Proposed Logan Network: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zyOQoSHIbm5k.kQDy_N3HshrI&usp=sharing
Interactive Population Map(2014):http://profile.id.com.au/logan
New CBD Stopping Pattern: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zv5qarEMyc6Y.k3FdeXHlm5D8&usp=sharing


Proposed Timetables

P142/P546- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2084&authkey=!AJ1u70BZzwK7sXU
P143- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2082&authkey=!AOArAnt9xqPRPTs
165- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2086&authkey=!ADIljvgltMvkdEw
534- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2088&authkey=!AI_KzxNT5XcmAL0
540- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2090&authkey=!ALSHbRGsP6dUcMg
541- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2092&authkey=!AOO_E6mtZs47atg
542- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2108&authkey=!AEeoMJPgd4M3NDM
545- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2116&authkey=!AD5phQ6I5es9_2c
547- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2110&authkey=!AL3SR_O68oQ3S50
550- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2106&authkey=!AEAFANi87PukeL8
551- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2096&authkey=!AB4GcPpd49WV_t0
552- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2128&authkey=!AAlk-RDvocSHUkE
553- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2078&authkey=!AHAuEOrMtJMbNdU
554- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2110&authkey=!AL3SR_O68oQ3S50
555- https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2326&app=Excel&authkey=!AAmZdUnGW74XN6I
560- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2122&authkey=!APNjNBIv9SdiaoQ
562/563- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2120&authkey=!AGhSyTK77qMT9e8
565/566- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2104&authkey=!ALX-eDfmzzUqg2c
567- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2100&authkey=!ABQpSn3Q-5AfJRI
P569- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2324&authkey=!AMgLSAcBaM_aPoY
570/571- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2328&authkey=!ANdEugwUif7uCpI
572/573- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2114&authkey=!AOgvgiMkDA7kddc
574/575- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2124&authkey=!AO23QITXz-jibu4
576/577- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2112&authkey=!ANlNn3U0-JadI90
578/579- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2126&authkey=!AGsWGEVgn_Cp2cI
P581- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2322&authkey=!AET27Cri1_hugAo
950- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2130&authkey=!ADmwqqnR_ESCuGo
954- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2102&authkey=!ANNyuB7y2mJbLbM
955- https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CD85FC36D0F0150D!2102&authkey=!ANNyuB7y2mJbLbM

Note:Redlands Route 282 would be upgraded to a 30 minute Frequency with extened operateing hours 7 days a week and a slight route change

I like some of the ideas, but others I think are pretty clearly excessive.

545 every 15 minutes and starting earlier/finishing later 

Extending 555 to Beenleigh also has benefits I think (and yes, the haters will be saying, but Beenleigh has the train.

Well does the train serve anywhere between Loganholme and HPW?

No...it's a completely different corridor!

15 minute all-day frequency on P581? It only has 200 car spaces.

Along with the 7.5 minute frequency on 555, I honestly don't think Springwood needs that many buses, outside of peak

551 running all the way into the Valley? Why?

BTW, your 554 link seems to take me to the 547 timetable.

[nathandavid88]

Looking at just a handful of these proposed routes so far, the biggest thing I've gotten from them is that they are way over the top in terms of span. This is Logan, not the Brisbane CBD – no one will be catching a 560 from the Hyperdome at midnight. While many Logan services do need an expansion in span, we still need to be realistic with what we ask for. Routes like the 550 and 560 I would push for the final services leaving each terminus up until ~8–9pm, which should cover all CBD workers and then some.

The other big thing I noticed which is a major pet peeve of mine is short running services – like the 560 between Loganholme and Marsden Park (probably slightly more useful than just to Loganlea Station) and the 550 between Springwood and Kingston Station. These short runs have never been a good thing in my eyes – if you are going to increase the service frequency, do it over the full route or don't bother. Not all traffic is for the sections between the interchanges. My experiences on the 5pm–6pm 550 services are that you actually get more people who are using the route to get to locations between Browns Plains and Marsden Park, rather than using it to get between Kingston and Springwood.

[QLDBUS]

Looking at just a handful of these proposed routes so far, the biggest thing I've gotten from them is that they are way over the top in terms of span. This is Logan, not the Brisbane CBD – no one will be catching a 560 from the Hyperdome at midnight. While many Logan services do need an expansion in span, we still need to be realistic with what we ask for. Routes like the 550 and 560 I would push for the final services leaving each terminus up until ~8–9pm, which should cover all CBD workers and then some.

Just Changed some of the Finishing Times

[achiruel]

no one will be catching a 560 from the Hyperdome at midnight.

You might be surprised. I know people living in Logan who go into the city in preference to places in Logan simply because there's no transport home. I think it would be good to have a few "core" routes run til midnight on Friday and Saturday nights. 545, 550, 560 and maybe one or two others. 553 & 572 perhaps?

[nathandavid88]

As a Logan resident myself, I would argue more that people go to the City over local venues because there's really not that much variety locally, outside of the suburban pubs – some of which have a reputation of being a bit on the rough side.

That aside, there might be value in introducing a couple of late night Friday and Saturday connecting services to compliment the N555 and N154 (still don't understand why they gave it a different number, it is effectively an N150 in all but name). I'd probably limit it to the 545, 550 & 560 though. Every second post peak 555 and the N555 already cover the 572 route. In terms of Beenleigh routes, I'm not sure if any of them are useful enough to warrant running as a "Nightlink Connector". I know I've said it before, but the bus network south of the Logan River needs to be overhauled IMO.

[QLDBUS]

So what would every change about this proposal???

[achiruel]

As a Logan resident myself, I would argue more that people go to the City over local venues because there's really not that much variety locally, outside of the suburban pubs – some of which have a reputation of being a bit on the rough side.

I dunno, I quite like a couple of restaurants at the Hyperdome. And I don't mean we need really late night services, but I'd like to see something after 7pm on Friday & Saturday nights.  Even worse on the 553 when the last bus from the Hyperdome to Slacks Creek/Kingston/Logan Central leaves at 5:34pm on Weekdays/Saturdays.  I mean I guess I could catch the 553 to Beenleigh and then the train, but too bad for those who don't live close to a railway station.  For people living around Meakin Park area, the 553 is their *ONLY* form of public transport.

That aside, there might be value in introducing a couple of late night Friday and Saturday connecting services to compliment the N555 and N154 (still don't understand why they gave it a different number, it is effectively an N150 in all but name). I'd probably limit it to the 545, 550 & 560 though. Every second post peak 555 and the N555 already cover the 572 route. In terms of Beenleigh routes, I'm not sure if any of them are useful enough to warrant running as a "Nightlink Connector". I know I've said it before, but the bus network south of the Logan River needs to be overhauled IMO.

I assume the N154 designation is because of the detour it makes to Griffith Uni (the actual campus, not the busway station)?

I'd still like to see the 553 run, it covers a lot of otherwise unserviced areas. Even if it was a short working to Kingston Station or something, I don't think through Mayes Ave and to Trinder Park is vital.

And yes I agree about the Beenleigh-Bethania area.  I can't really comprehend the buses there.  What a mess!

[nathandavid88]

Yarrabilba's Logan Coaches-operated bus service* has seen a few more services added, but the calls for buses by residents in Flagstone are getting louder. The Mayor says council is working on it, but the draft plan they're working on won't be seen until next year.


From the Albert & Logan News, 19-05-16

*For anyone not overly familiar with it, Lend Lease (who are obliged to provide public transport to Yarrabilba until it is large enough to require Translink services) did a deal with Logan Coaches for their non-Translink service linking Canungra, Tamborine Village and Logan Village to Loganlea Station, the Hyperdome and Beenleigh (the last two being occasional journeys), to start servicing Yarrabilba as well. Originally comprising of (IIRC) two services inbound and outbound on weekdays, and two on Saturdays, there are now 6 inbound services and 7 outbound services to choose from (for Yarrabilba at least, still only two for Canungra and Tamborine Village) with four on Saturdays (again, still two for Canungra and Tamborine Village).

The timetable for this route is below.

[nathandavid88]

Public transport improvements are shaping up to be a key theme in the 2016/2017 Logan City Council budget:




The quote from Bill Richards from the Chamber of Commerce I find quite funny, because I actually do work in Crestmead and do make my way home via Springwood on occasion, and it definitely does not take me 2 hours to get there. It doesn't even take me 1 hour, usually about 45 minutes. And just to make sure, I jumped on the Journey Planner, and I can't find a journey between Crestmead and Springwood in either direction that takes anymore than 1 hour 10 minutes tops. Logan does have some transport deficiencies and black holes, but Springwood to Crestmead isn't one of them.

[STB]

Yarrabilba's Logan Coaches-operated bus service* has seen a few more services added, but the calls for buses by residents in Flagstone are getting louder. The Mayor says council is working on it, but the draft plan they're working on won't be seen until next year.


From the Albert & Logan News, 19-05-16

*For anyone not overly familiar with it, Lend Lease (who are obliged to provide public transport to Yarrabilba until it is large enough to require Translink services) did a deal with Logan Coaches for their non-Translink service linking Canungra, Tamborine Village and Logan Village to Loganlea Station, the Hyperdome and Beenleigh (the last two being occasional journeys), to start servicing Yarrabilba as well. Originally comprising of (IIRC) two services inbound and outbound on weekdays, and two on Saturdays, there are now 6 inbound services and 7 outbound services to choose from (for Yarrabilba at least, still only two for Canungra and Tamborine Village) with four on Saturdays (again, still two for Canungra and Tamborine Village).

The timetable for this route is below.

I know TransLink did some early planning work for bus services in Yarrabilba and Flagstone back in 2007 - I know that as I was involved in it.  Will be interesting to see if any of that work has evolved into something more meaty when it comes to the time that TL takes over responsibility of providing bus services to those areas.

[#Metro]

Move to area far far away from anything.
Complain no PT is available / is poor.

:conf

[City Designer]

LD Transit: As someone who should be advocating for improved public transport comments like that are not helpful.

[City Designer]

Oops 

You're absolutely right. Incidentally, does anyone know why this is the case, considering the 550, 551 & 561 cover largely the same areas, yet are LCBS routes?

I believe there was an equivalent to the 545 in the old network pre-TransLink operated by Park Ridge Transit. I looked at the Pandora archive of TransInfo dated 29 August 2003 and the old route 5 replicates route 545 but only went as far north as Wembley Road.

Also I wanted to add that the 567 in the proposed Logan network is physically impossible. Woodlands Boulevard between Gardiner Road and Outlook Drive is too steep for buses. Cambogan Road is also not suitable for buses.

I would route the bus via Teys Road, right into Tallagandra Road, right into Ridgevale Boulevard (expected completion 2017), left into Gardiner Road, right into Grand Terrace, right into Jarvis Road, right into High Road, left into Albert Street, left into Goodooga Drive, left into Albert Street, right into Loganlea Road, left into Carnival Street, left into Station Road.

[#Metro]

LD Transit: As someone who should be advocating for improved public transport comments like that are not helpful.

Reality bites.

If you do X you get Y,

If you do A then you get B.

Why censor that just because it is an uncomfortable reality?

Yarrabilba is 40 km from the Brisbane CBD. It is surrounded by farmland / dry scrub.

PT to that area will not be good for many decades, probably 30-40 years.

Approving development between Rosewood and Ipswich would have been much smarter (rail line already there) or Samford (rail line terminus close by).

Purpose-driven public transport: creating a clear conversation about public transport goals
http://www.worldtransitresearch.info/research/1399/

Public transport faces an increasingly intense conflict between patronage goals and coverage goals. Broadly speaking, patronage goals seek to maximize patronage of all types, while coverage goals lead to the provision of service despite low patronage - to achieve social inclusion objectives for example. The conflict between these goals follows inevitably from the underlying structure of the public transport product, including both its costs and geometry.

[City Designer]

Public transport supports patronage and coverage.

The same criticism could be said of Forest Lake back in 1991 and now it has high frequency services.

I am glad to see Yarrabilba is progressively getting more runs.

The 24 hour service station at least provides a corner store now for local needs.

The addition of Coles some time over the next 12 months with help to improve self-sufficiency.

[James]

Public transport supports patronage and coverage.

The same criticism could be said of Forest Lake back in 1991 and now it has high frequency services.

I am glad to see Yarrabilba is progressively getting more runs.

The 24 hour service station at least provides a corner store now for local needs.

The addition of Coles some time over the next 12 months with help to improve self-sufficiency.

Forest Lake, particularly the early parts, were right next to Inala. Really not comparable to Yarrabilba, which is a good 15 minute drive (15km) from the nearest areas of residential density. To put it in perspective, Forest Lake is 15km from Indooroopilly, one of the Big 4 mini-CBDs. Springfield is 15km from Mt Ommaney. Both routes pass through established suburbs on the way there, not bushland.

[nathandavid88]

The 24 hour service station at least provides a corner store now for local needs.

The addition of Coles some time over the next 12 months with help to improve self-sufficiency.

And until then, they do have the Woolworths 5 minutes up the road at Logan Village, and apparently an IGA shopping village will be going in prior to the construction of the Coles (set to open next year).

Fun facts about Yarrabilba – according to a front page story on this week's Albert & Logan News, Yarrabilba has recently passed a landmark with the sale of its 2000th housing lot, with 50 houses being completed each month. The population is currently estimated to be around 3000 people, growing to 45,000 over the next 25 years. Their first primary school (St Clare's Catholic) will be opening next January, with the first State primary school opening the following year.

As for the argument about passing through bushland to get to Yarrabilba, technically it's rural residential rather than straight bushland, but that aside, I would be expecting to see a long of those properties to be subdivided down over the next 10-20 years. You can already see some of this happening, with large scale estates going into nearby suburbs like Holmview, smaller scale estates opening in Buccan and Logan Village, and a large land sale in Park Ridge to an estate developer announced just last week.

[SurfRail]

The egg can't be unscrambled.  We have to deal with what is, not what we'd like.