MBRL Consultation

[ozbob]

From today's Bayside Herald

[ozbob]

For MBRL bus consultation thread see --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11764.0

[ozbob]

Have your say on the proposed Moreton Bay Region network

> http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62061/details#.VjBrf6DSgIo.twitter ...

What's happening?

The much anticipated Moreton Bay Rail Link (MBRL) will open in mid-2016.

On Wednesday 28 October, the Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport announced community consultation on the new rail timetable and proposed bus network.

The new MBRL timetable will provide more than 650 new weekly train services, trains every six to 12 minutes in peak times, all-day express services, and a consistent 55 minute journey between Kippa-Ring and Brisbane Central stations.

To provide an integrated network for the region, some changes are proposed for the local bus network.

More information - including maps and timetables - will be available once consultation on the proposed network opens on Monday 2 November.

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament Hansard

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2015/2015_10_28_DAILY.pdf

Questions without notice

Moreton Bay Rail Link

Mr WHITING: My question is to the Deputy Premier. Will the Deputy Premier please advise the
House how the delivery of important infrastructure like the Moreton Bay Rail Link will improve public
transport services in the region?

Ms TRAD: I thank the member for Murrumba for the question. I love getting up on my feet and
talking about the Moreton Bay Rail Link, but I do not think I love getting up on my feet and talking about
it as much as the Attorney-General or you yourself, member for Murrumba. It is exciting to see that this
project is coming to conclusion. What this means in terms of a catalytic, transformative piece of
infrastructure is that we can start delivering better services to Queenslanders—and that is what
infrastructure is all about.

I can announce that consultation will commence on Monday, 2 November on the draft rail and
improved bus timetables that will roll out once the rail line becomes operational in 2016. Moreton Bay
Rail Link will deliver more than 650 train services weekly, including trains every six to 12 minutes in the
peak, all-day express services and a consistent 55-minute journey between Kippa-Ring and Central.
The proposed bus timetables will make it easier for residents to connect with the high-frequency rail
services and there will be improved connections to community hubs. The draft timetable includes an
addition of 147 bus trips every weekday, as well as increased operating hours and 15-minute frequency
on key routes during peak periods. The proposed bus routes will mean that some areas will have access
to public transport for the very first time—parts like Griffin and Petrie. We are kicking off consultation
with residents on our plans to deliver an easy to use and integrated network. Consultation on the draft
timetables will be open for six weeks. We will hold nine community information sessions across the
region on weekdays and weekends where people can find out about the new timetables and speak with
TransLink planners.

This is what happens when you plan for infrastructure. This is what happens when you actually
conceive of ideas, when you identify what the challenges and opportunities are and when you go after
trying to make them a reality. Last night in the debate on the Building Queensland Bill what was really
interesting was when the member for Callide got to his feet and let the cat out of the bag, when he said
that the LNP's lack of a plan was absolutely deliberate—that their lack of an infrastructure plan was
absolutely deliberate. He stood up and he said, and I quote, 'In the three years we were in
government'—

Mr SEENEY: I rise to a point of order, Mr Speaker. I find the member for South Brisbane's
misleading of the House offensive and I ask that it be withdrawn.

Mr SPEAKER: Deputy Premier, the member has found the comments relating to him misleading
and offensive and he has asked that they be withdrawn.

Ms TRAD: I withdraw, but I will quote directly from what the—

Mr SPEAKER: No, no. It is an unconditional—

Honourable members interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Members, the standard proceeding in this House is that, if a member finds a
comment personally offensive and they have asked for it to be withdrawn, it happens. I am happy to
have a further conversation with the Deputy Premier after the sitting.

Mr HINCHLIFFE: I rise to a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just wanted to clarify, for the benefit of
the whole of the House rather than a private conversation, that the member for Callide rose and said
that the comments from the Deputy Premier were misleading and offensive. I need to clarify what you
are ruling on and what you are asking. There is no clarification about them being misleading. You have
ruled other people out of order on point of orders like that, including myself.

Mr SPEAKER: Thank you. My understanding is that the member for Callide found those
comments offensive and misleading and has asked those to be withdrawn because he finds them
offensive. It is not an opportunity for members to debate whether they would have found those
comments offensive. The rule is that if a member finds them offensive the procedure is that it is
withdrawn. I am happy to have a discussion later on with whoever wants to have a talk to me about this
matter.

Ms TRAD: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I withdraw. The reason why Queensland did not have—

Mr Langbroek interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: One moment, Deputy Premier. Deputy Leader of the Opposition, I do not need
your interjections. If you want to have a conversation, I invite you to join other members later on.

Ms TRAD: The reason why Queensland did not have an infrastructure plan for the last three
years can be attributed to what the former deputy premier, the member for Callide, said in the House
last night, when he said and I quote, 'In the three years we were in government when I was the minister
for infrastructure, the same bureaucrats who came to the current Deputy Premier ... came to me ... and
said, "We have to have an infrastructure plan, Minister." And I repeatedly said, "No."' '"We have to have
an infrastructure plan," and I said, "No."'

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

29th October 2015

Moreton Bay Rail Link - timetable improvements & consultation - Sector One changes

Greetings,

Announced yesterday by the Deputy Premier in Parliament was that consultation for the draft rail and improved bus timetables for Moreton Bay region will commence on Monday 2 November 2015.

We are delighted that there will be a detailed community consultation process and has been something we have advocated strongly for.  Getting the community onside will improve mobility options for the region.

Also detailed yesterday were the draft rail timetables for the Sector 1: Sunshine Coast and Caboolture lines.  Improved running times and express services will mean significant benefits to the community.

We have some concerns with not improving both the Sector 1: Springfield and Ipswich line timetables, particularly not addressing the span of hours of the timetables and hourly timetable on Sunday mornings.  Counter peak frequency needs improvement as well.

Off peak rail services at 30 minutes is not optimal, in time when more trains are available we would like to see off peak services at 15 minute frequency on Moreton Bay Rail Link, Caboolture, Springfield and Ipswich Lines.

However, overall the changes announced yesterday are very promising and will help to improve mobility for the community.

We wait for details of the bus changes for Moreton Bay region, however the Deputy Premier did say in parliament* yesterday that:

" The proposed bus timetables will make it easier for residents to connect with the high-frequency rail
services and there will be improved connections to community hubs. The draft timetable includes an
addition of 147 bus trips every weekday, as well as increased operating hours and 15-minute frequency
on key routes during peak periods. The proposed bus routes will mean that some areas will have access
to public transport for the very first time—parts like Griffin and Petrie. We are kicking off consultation
with residents on our plans to deliver an easy to use and integrated network. Consultation on the draft
timetables will be open for six weeks. We will hold nine community information sessions across the
region on weekdays and weekends where people can find out about the new timetables and speak with
TransLink planners. "

*https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2015/2015_10_28_DAILY.pdf

Thanks to Queensland Rail and TransLink for their ongoing efforts.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

References:

New timetables for the Caboolture and Sunshine Coast lines
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11765.0

Have your say on the proposed Moreton Bay Region
http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/62061/details

[ozbob]

Now available!!

Proposed Moreton Bay Region public transport network

>> http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/63151/details

For bus changes please go to this thread > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11764.0

[ozbob]

Draft MBRL (rail) timetable

>> http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/resources/about-translink/projects-initiatives/mbrl/moreton_bay-draft-timetable.pdf









  For bus changes please go to this thread > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11764.0

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

2nd November 2015

Proposed Moreton Bay Region public transport network

Greetings!

Details for Proposed Moreton Bay Region public transport network are now available at >>  http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-notices/63151/details

The proposed changes to the Moreton Bay Region bus network will:

    increase connections between bus and train services
    remove service duplication with the new train line
    provide an easier-to-understand network by reducing route numbers
    expand routes into new and growing areas
    provide connections to key activity centres.

This is a very good network plan.  Supported by information, maps, timetables and consultation in various modes

Interactive maps are also available at http://translink.com.au/about-translink/what-we-do/projects-and-initiatives/moreton-bay-changes

Well done TransLink!

We would encourage citizens to review the planned network and give feedback either face to face or online as needed.

This is exactly the sort of reform process that needs to occur for the Brisbane bus network.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

===================

[ozbob]

  For bus changes please go to this thread > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11764.0

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Draft timetables for Moreton Bay Rail Link released, public consultation starts

[SurfRail]

Some of the MBRL services simply must extend past Roma Street in peak hour as additional Springfield trains.  15 minute gaps on the inner Ipswich line are too high for peak.

Also need to tidy up the early morning and late evening services for greater consistency, and this is for all of Sector 1.  The only variations really should be for additional late services for Fri/Sat and Sat/Sun.  The trains clearly exist to do at least this.

[ozbob]

Something not right there ..

A one hour counter peak gap on the Ippy? Out of Roma St 6am, next 7am ??

I have contacted QR to ask them to check it.

It also shows as a one hour gap on the draft Gympie North/Caboolture timetables as well

[ozbob]

The train ex Nambour that arrives at Roma St at 6.24am, might have to go to Ippy   

Failing that fire up the Bety and SX set ... 

[dancingmongoose]

Something not right there ..

A one hour counter peak gap on the Ippy? Out of Roma St 6am, next 7am ??

I have contacted QR to ask them to check it.

It also shows as a one hour gap on the draft Gympie North/Caboolture timetables as well

Bowen Hills starter?

[ozbob]

I checked the draft inner city timetable and shows the gap there too.

A Bowen Hills starter would work, but the ex-Nambour service is already there, may as well use it if it does not stuff everything else up.

[DayboroStation]

Some of the MBRL services simply must extend past Roma Street in peak hour as additional Springfield trains.  15 minute gaps on the inner Ipswich line are too high for peak.

Agree. Definitely needs to be additional services, particularly between Roma Street and Toowong stations.

[Stillwater]

Revelation in Hansard (above), quoting Jeff Seeney:

'In the three years we were in government when I was the Minister for Infrastructure, the same bureaucrats who came to the current Deputy Premier ... came to me ... and said: "We have to have an infrastructure plan, Minister." And I repeatedly said: "No."

The LNP promised an infrastructure plan and failed to deliver one because the policy was not to have one!

Interesting. 

[ozbob]

Something not right there ..

A one hour counter peak gap on the Ippy? Out of Roma St 6am, next 7am ??

I have contacted QR to ask them to check it.

It also shows as a one hour gap on the draft Gympie North/Caboolture timetables as well

I have been advised that there is an Ipswich train out of Central at 6.28am (Roma St 6.30am).  Comes out of the electric shed.

Not sure why not on timetables.

So at least that keeps 15 minute Central to Darra, and 30 minute to Ipswich counter-peak.

[ozbob]

Revelation in Hansard (above), quoting Jeff Seeney:

'In the three years we were in government when I was the Minister for Infrastructure, the same bureaucrats who came to the current Deputy Premier ... came to me ... and said: "We have to have an infrastructure plan, Minister." And I repeatedly said: "No."

The LNP promised an infrastructure plan and failed to deliver one because the policy was not to have one!

Interesting. 

The BaT (no acronym) was fiction, nothing surprises me much any more.  No plan?  Sounds like situation normal hey ...

[verbatim9]

Services till 1am Fri/Sat nights The residents won't know what hit them!

At the moment people get a train to Sandgate or Petrie then get a lift or cab it back home. A huge improvement.

[SurfRail]

They have certainly done a much better job of the rail timetable (with pre-NGR resources) than the bus network.

I think we have a right to be especially cross if the following isn't addressed shortly after the first 30 or so NGR trains enter service, so by the end of 2017:

- Minimum 15 minute off-peak frequency broadly from around 6am to 9pm, 7 days per week, on the following services
-- Kippa-Ring to Springfield Central
-- Shorncliffe to Cleveland
-- Ferny Grove to Kuraby or further if possible

- At least make an effort to liaise with Airtrain over additional interpeak services and to extend the operating hours

- Permanent Ipswich expresses using the current pattern

- Hourly Sunshine Coast services to Nambour

- Half-hourly Doomben services 7 days per week to the same rough span as the Shorncliffe line

- More Cleveland peak expresses

- Additional counterpeak services, particularly those continuing south of Roma Street from the northside (especially towards Springfield and Cleveland)

[STB]

Just a note on the Cleveland line, but I know that QR likes to keep a spare slot available from Manly to Cleveland for train driver tuitions and other special departmental trains etc during off peak times.  Basically the best you'll get is a 30min frequency from Manly to Cleveland and a 15min frequency from Manly to the City.

My suggestion is to have 30min Cleveland-City services running express full time from Manly to Morningside, with Manly trains running every 15mins stopping at all stations during off peak times.

You could potentially pair up Cleveland with Doomben and Manly with Shorncliffe.

[STB]

Petey might be able to confirm, but I think Altandi or Kuraby is technically as far as they can go with the constraints of 3 tracks, especially when you overlay the Gold Coast line on top of it, if you are intending on running trains every 15mins (assuming you allow the Beenleigh trains to run express - which they really should be doing from Kuraby or Altandi inwards, given that Beenleigh is 40kms out).

[SurfRail]

Just a note on the Cleveland line, but I know that QR likes to keep a spare slot available from Manly to Cleveland for train driver tuitions and other special departmental trains etc during off peak times.  Basically the best you'll get is a 30min frequency from Manly to Cleveland and a 15min frequency from Manly to the City.

My suggestion is to have 30min Cleveland-City services running express full time from Manly to Morningside, with Manly trains running every 15mins stopping at all stations during off peak times.

You could potentially pair up Cleveland with Doomben and Manly with Shorncliffe.

Or QR could do what other railways do and atop sacrificing the needs of its passengers for unimportant operational concerns that those other railways again can magically solve through other means.

The very notion that route tuition can be allowed to interfere with a public facing timetable is another embarrassment in a very long litany.

[STB]

Just a note on the Cleveland line, but I know that QR likes to keep a spare slot available from Manly to Cleveland for train driver tuitions and other special departmental trains etc during off peak times.  Basically the best you'll get is a 30min frequency from Manly to Cleveland and a 15min frequency from Manly to the City.

My suggestion is to have 30min Cleveland-City services running express full time from Manly to Morningside, with Manly trains running every 15mins stopping at all stations during off peak times.

You could potentially pair up Cleveland with Doomben and Manly with Shorncliffe.

Or QR could do what other railways do and atop sacrificing the needs of its passengers for unimportant operational concerns that those other railways again can magically solve through other means.

The very notion that route tuition can be allowed to interfere with a public facing timetable is another embarrassment in a very long litany.

So, where would you stick those trains, the maximum you can get through there is 4tph with the single track and that track will not be duplicated anytime soon, well after CRR gets built (assuming that gets built).  Gottta have some sort of on the road training available (also used for other purposes beyond that).

Also, train driver training for example isn't 'unimportant'.  Sheesh! 

I think you just need to accept that you won't see 15min Cleveland-Shorncliffe all day services 7 days a week while the track is single track.  Heck I live along that section of track for the past 20 years, I know what it's like!

[Gazza]

So how do high frequency subway lines overseas train their staff?

[#Metro]

It would be interesting to know how it is done on say, the London Tube or the London Overground

[SurfRail]

I'm happy with Manly TBH.  Single track running can be done at decent headways of course but I don't think QR have the operational discipline to do it, and the infrastructure is ailing.

There's no excuse for Shorncliffe, and the only thing stopping it at the airport is the operator not being willing to pay for it (although I expect you can't do any better than 15 minute headways given the track limitation which is never going to be fixed).

[Arnz]

The 1622 (4:22pm) Central to Nambour (originating from Springfield Central) is currently a scheduled 3-car set. 

Although standing space on that particular train isn't much of a problem at the moment, assuming that service remains a "3-car" post MBRL, I'd be interested to see how that particular service handles Petrie to Morayfield passengers since that train will be stopping at those stations when the 2016 draft timetable gets implemented.  I do suspect there may be overcrowding issues on that service (due to the extra stops) if that remains a 3-car.

[STB]

So how do high frequency subway lines overseas train their staff?

I'm not sure what they do for high frequency subway lines, but this is what QR prefers to do.  Even if they went 4tph from Cleveland to the City I know from experience of living along this line that during peak hour it only takes one minor late train from the city to throw things out and cause issues, hence why you regularly see Manly trains run express from Morningside to Park Road as altered running.

Basically the line must be duplicated, not only to provide redundancy but to also allow trains to cross each other, even if one is running slightly late (and it only has to run late by a few mins to throw things out in peak hour), however, this obviously isn't going to happen until well after CRR (assuming that ever gets built).

[Gazza]

I'm not sure what they do for high frequency subway lines, but this is what QR prefers to do. 

See, I don't really care what QR "prefer" to do. If other rail operators can get around it, so can QR.

[#Metro]

Perhaps some of the Sunshine Coast railbuses could make an appearance at Cleveland to supplement the Cleveland line when there isn't 15 minute frequency. 

[ozbob]

They have certainly done a much better job of the rail timetable (with pre-NGR resources) than the bus network.

I think we have a right to be especially cross if the following isn't addressed shortly after the first 30 or so NGR trains enter service, so by the end of 2017:

Might have to push that out from 2017.  I think the NGR will not make a net train gain for a while (EMUs will be progressively removed as NGR rolled out is my guess, getting very difficult to keep EMUs going).

Possibly 2018/2019.

Not sure if 75 6 car NGR is really enough?  QR wanted 100 originally I think, the LNP mob cut it back.

[James]

The 1622 (4:22pm) Central to Nambour (originating from Springfield Central) is currently a scheduled 3-car set. 

Although standing space on that particular train isn't much of a problem at the moment, assuming that service remains a "3-car" post MBRL, I'd be interested to see how that particular service handles Petrie to Morayfield passengers since that train will be stopping at those stations when the 2016 draft timetable gets implemented.  I do suspect there may be overcrowding issues on that service (due to the extra stops) if that remains a 3-car.

I think what is happening is that the 4:04pm Central to Nambour (originating from Roma St/Mayne Yard) will be the new 3-car service. It only stops at Northgate and Petrie between Bowen Hills and Caboolture (identical stopping pattern to the Gympie North services).

See, I don't really care what QR "prefer" to do. If other rail operators can get around it, so can QR.

^ this. If we can't get past being mediocre, how can we expect to ever run a decent operation? The excuses QR put up for not extending the trains beyond Cannon Hill were really pretty ordinary.

[colinw]

So how do high frequency subway lines overseas train their staff?

Or Perth, Sydney or Melbourne for that matter.  Perth runs 4TPH or better basically everywhere in the offpeak, and has far less track capacity overall than we do (but better segregation between corridors).  How does Perth manage it?

If operational convenience is trumping service quality then it is time to put a broom through the whole outfit.

Although in this case, I don't see any compelling case for 4TPH beyond Manly.

On the Beenleigh line I often see what I take to be driver training runs (3 car sets with desto saying "Special") coming in to Kuraby and turning back at Platform 2.

[SurfRail]

Route tuition is a legitimate enough need, but does this have to be done by occupying a train slot (is any training carried out by observation on existing services)?

[colinw]

Route tuition is a legitimate enough need, but does this have to be done by occupying a train slot (is any training carried out by observation on existing services)?

At 4TPH I would have thought there should be sufficient capacity for a a driver training run to slot in between services, at least in multi-track areas. I think the problem is probably when they want to change ends and turn back, or when driver training & route tuition needs to go into the single track sections.

There are a few places around the network where turning back "specials" may be feasible (e.g. Rocklea on the Beenleigh line, which has an electrified siding and crossovers allowing a short working service to turn back).

Regarding Cleveland, some years ago there were proposals for a part duplication in the Wellington Point area, leaving the expensive to duplicate bit through the mangroves and over the roads around Birkdale as single.  What happened to that plan? (Probably pushed off to 2031 never-never).

[achiruel]

I believe there was also at some time in the past a plan to duplicate Trinder Park-Loganlea on the Beenleigh line (Kuraby-Trinder Park ommitted for some reason?) but I'm guessing that's gone into the never-never as well.

[Fares_Fair]

They have certainly done a much better job of the rail timetable (with pre-NGR resources) than the bus network.

I think we have a right to be especially cross if the following isn't addressed shortly after the first 30 or so NGR trains enter service, so by the end of 2017:

- Minimum 15 minute off-peak frequency broadly from around 6am to 9pm, 7 days per week, on the following services
-- Kippa-Ring to Springfield Central
-- Shorncliffe to Cleveland
-- Ferny Grove to Kuraby or further if possible

- At least make an effort to liaise with Airtrain over additional interpeak services and to extend the operating hours

- Permanent Ipswich expresses using the current pattern

- Hourly Sunshine Coast services to Nambour

- Half-hourly Doomben services 7 days per week to the same rough span as the Shorncliffe line

- More Cleveland peak expresses

- Additional counterpeak services, particularly those continuing south of Roma Street from the northside (especially towards Springfield and Cleveland)

Hello SR,
With regard to your seventh point, once the Woombye Stabling is opened and working (commissioning due late 2016), there will be an additional 9 daily services (4 southbound) and (5 northbound) between the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane, weekdays.

This will create effective off-peak frequency services of approx. 60 minutes (from the current 90 minutes).
These new services will cover the inter-peak period and the period after the afternoon peak.

[BrizCommuter]

So how do high frequency subway lines overseas train their staff?

After a simulator, and route training (observing), they drive trains in service under supervision.
Many London Underground Lines are now 24tph off-peak - no room for staff training services!