SEQ Fare Review Taskforce

[#Metro]

Reading this twitter conversation between one twitter user and the deputy mayor just makes you want to groan.
NB: No, this is not my twitter account.

Pete ‏@PeteFTD  1h1 hour ago
@Schrinner You're avoiding the point about costly duplication. Why wouldn't you remove it so you could improve BUZ route coverage?

Adrian Schrinner ‏@Schrinner  23m23 minutes ago
@PeteFTD I'm not aware of any costly duplication. That's a myth perpetuated by people who like playing with model train sets.

The thing is, there is duplication. More properly, twenty-sextuplication. Shown here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11175.msg151940#msg151940

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane bus passenger numbers plunge due to 'high prices, poor service'

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 36s

. @PeteFTD @Schrinner Model trains? Poor network design and massive duplication see attached .. an example ..

[SurfRail]

Schrinner is a political grub, that's why.

Nice to see I've been proved correct, again.

You would think the deputy mayor of Australia's 3rd largest city would have better things to do than sink the boot into and bait community groups.

[ozbob]

Insulting citizens does little for them.  I am number 1 target, I ignore and just stick to the facts.

Abuse doesn't hide the failure, perhaps it only serves to highlight it!!

Onwards ..

[techblitz]

@PeteFTD I'm not aware of any costly duplication. That's a myth perpetuated by people who like playing with model train sets.

ouch...he needs to sit along ocr,mains,gympie rds @ 9pm weeknights

i liken this entire debacle to an adult telling a teenager off and the teen eventually gets sick of hearing the same thing and eventually just rebel and have it go through one ear and out the other......it would appear this is what is happening...in this case shrinner/quirk et al are the teenagers and railbot are the ones telling them off....plz feel free to correct me if im wrong

[ozbob]

^ you are too kind TB ... teenagers, more like spoiled 4 year old brats ...

Sadly it is all about polyticks  ... the politicisation of councils has been taken to a psuedo-art form with BCC.

This mob were going to roll over for the Newman administration with competitive bus tendering, no doubt about that.  Now that would have been interesting.  The state govt has killed that off of course.

It will be interesting to see what sort of public transport policy is put out by the Labor candidate for LM, Mr Rod Harding.

[pandmaster]

@PeteFTD @Team_Quirk BCC is a contractor to the State Gov. If the State wants to make bus network changes they have the power.

— Adrian Schrinner (@Schrinner) September 8, 2015

Schrinner is right. George Street can (and should) do whatever they want with PT (i.e. strip BCC of power). If the ALP wins the next BCC election, the ducks are in a row and the time has come.

[dancingmongoose]

Our good friend Dr Chris Hale giving Cr Schrinner some stick regarding the petition.

http://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6046864539570429952

[ozbob]

Our good friend Dr Chris Hale giving Cr Schrinner some stick regarding the petition.

http://www.linkedin.com/nhome/updates?activity=6046864539570429952

Only those on linkedin can see it.  A precis of what he says?

[red dragin]

I love the closing insult 

[verbatim9]

It's hard to draw conclusions on Schrinner's petition but I think it's still a bit premature as nothing has been released from a fare review. I agree with the article saying per km over a reasonable distance its quite affordable. The 77 from Chermside to Mt Gravett is excellent value offpeak only $3.72 and quite quick too via the Clem 7 and bus way. So not all bad news re fares and bus routing.

[ozbob]

Really? If so, this is very good news @TMRQld @TransLinkSEQ @jackietrad @Rod4Bris ... #qldpol https://t.co/wCX7vVMnOJ

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) September 10, 2015

[James]

Schrinner is right. George Street can (and should) do whatever they want with PT (i.e. strip BCC of power). If the ALP wins the next BCC election, the ducks are in a row and the time has come.

The problem is that the ALP at a state level appears to have zip interest in reforming the network. It is all about grannies and welfare services, according to Jackie Trad and the Unions. Hopefully Rod Harding is listening.

This is just a classic palm-off response. We all know BT is a law on to itself and will refuse to co-operate if TransLink tries to reform the network again. If BCC are going to act like 4 year olds, you need to treat them like 4 year olds - just strip them of power and put it out of reach. Problem solved.

[dancingmongoose]

Here's the whole thing

[Stillwater]

Politicians love to dumb down the message: Vote for me because I support lower fares.  Oh, if I can't lower fares, that's not my fault.

[verbatim9]

Lower Fares, Cheaper electricity, more Tunnels, new roads and bypasses and cheaper cars. That's what the people want to here. They don't seem to be warming to a new train station or bus stop on their street or subsidised solar on their roofs?

[#Metro]

If you look at BCC claiming to be spending the most on PT, you have to think. BCC is the only council that operates PT, all other places it is done by the state and territory government.

What is a fair ruler for the BCC operations? Schrinner claims that $114 million is being spent. I think we should compare it with Canberra. Canberra appears to be spending even more than BCC, because it is constructing Light Rail and has reformed the bus network. It also works in a very difficult ultra low density environment and low population. The per resident spend on PT is similar to BCC's. Perhaps slightly higher also.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/act-budget-2015-government-signals-375-million-contribution-to-light-rail-20150602-ghexn7.html

Public transport attracts about 3 per cent of the budget's funds, or $152.4 million.
The figure is about $394 for each ACT resident.

This is HIGHER than BCC's $114 million subsidy. PLUS LRT is on the cards.

The guy isn't listening.

[SurfRail]

Brisbane also collects a much higher proportion of its revenue base from commercial real estate than other councils because they don't have the CBD of a state capital in them.

[dancingmongoose]

Chris Hale again:

For all those statistical illiterates foaming at the mouth about bus usage in Brisbane today... A fall (or increase) of 2.5% is actually a "no change" outcome in statistical terms. Ridership has neither fallen nor risen when the figures is within a 5% 'margin for error' that allows for imperfections in sampling and sample size... Brisbane has actually recorded a STABLE bus ridership outcome on the available figures.
its out of control already - according to an op-ed in Brisbane Times today, transit usage is "plummeting"... Goodness knows what will happen if a real fall or rise is actually recorded... Perhaps that would be "really, really plummeting" in the new jargon...

[ozbob]

It is significant.  It is not a sample, it is based on actual ticketing data overall.

[#Metro]

I think there should be a table tracking this patronage on BT buses statistic. Actually this feeds into the 'secrecy' around basic stat information. Should all be in the TL reports really.

If Hale wants to publish his statistical analysis, along with which statistical test he used and the corresponding P-value, I would be interested in seeing that. I think the patronage fell before this report, and in the report before that as well. All the while population increasing.

[ozbob]

It is not a sample, it is the population.  The data is generated from go card and onboard ticket sales.  They know very accurately the number of passenger trips.  If it goes down 2% then that is real.

The bus OTP they used to report was based on a very small sample around 1% of all trips, that had no statistical validity in reality.

This all gets back to the bullsh%t reporting of all public transport data in Queensland.

It really is time they followed the lead of other states and made available on line patronage, performance for all modes, routes and lines.  Station boardings and so forth.  It is all available via go card data these days.

[#Metro]

There is one thing Hale is probably correct about: Improving network quality will probably rake more passengers in than a simple fare cut (which we already had with 9-then waste and 7.5% fare increase reversal).

BCC's own data shows that patronage responds rapidly (within 3 months) after BUZ upgrade. The solution would be to reorganise the bus network, that would lead to the largest increase in gains of all measures.

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/conferences/2012/BRT/Warren.pdf

[ozbob]

Indeed, and that is point I have made constantly. 

Fixing the network is not just about fare cuts ... as the BCC polytickers project when they feel under the pump ...

[verbatim9]

Wonder if his petition will have influence? More than 2500 have signed according to his Facebook post

[ozbob]

Fare unaffordability is not a recent thing.  Must be council elections looming ...

[colinw]

Meanwhile in Africa ...

Insisting that 'the light rail is not for commercial purposes', Gebeyehu explained that ticket prices would be 'very cheap' in order to 'serve people with low incomes'.

Maximum fare on the new Addis Ababa light rail system (two lines of similar length to the Gold Coast system) is US $0.30.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> SEQ passengers pay among highest fares in world for average commuter trip: report

SOUTHEAST Queensland passengers pay among the highest fares in the world for an average commuter trip, a new report has found.

Transport economics consultancy NineSquared studied 29 public transport systems in 24 cities across Australia, North America, Europe and Asia to compile its Fare Benchmark Report.

Based on the average length of a trip, TransLink fares for trains, buses and ferries ranked as 10th priciest.

Commuters here pay more than in any other Australian capital, as well as the London bus network, the Metro in Paris and those using public transport in Los Angeles, Seoul and Beijing.

It is less, though, than the London Tube and the transit systems of New York, Toronto, Tokyo and Berlin.

But local commuter advocates say travellers in other locations enjoy superior levels of frequency and service.

"The London Underground may be more expensive but there is a train every few minutes. Most of SEQ has poor frequency and service," RAIL Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said.

Unlike TransLink services, others had options such as weekly or monthly tickets to reduce costs for regular commuters. The only discount in the SEQ region is free travel after nine paid go card trips in one week.

"Commuters spend their lunch hour taking short trips to clock up nine as quickly as possible so they can travel to work free later in the week," Mr Dow said.

"Even Sydney has a $15 daily cap and a $60 weekly cap."

The NineSquared report used the minimum wage in each country to calculate ­affordability based on how long someone would have to work to pay for a fare.

Director Robin Barlow said it was often said that Australian fares were among the world's most expensive, so they were put to the test.

With an average commute of 15.4km in southeast Queensland, a minimum-wage fast-food worker on $18.52 an hour would need to work 30.19 minutes to pay for a three-zone return fare — that's more than 2½ hours each week just to get to work.

The findings have been sent to a taskforce of experts reviewing public transport fares in southeast Queensland, which will report to Deputy Premier Jackie Trad.

Mr Barlow said while research indicated that fare levels were "not over the top" compared to other cities around the world, it did highlight issues such as whether the current system of 23 fare zones was the best approach.

The panel could also investigate weekly, monthly and annual passes and caps, he said.

Queensland is the only state in Australia that does not provide concessions for the unemployed.
Originally published as Fare way to go to catch up

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> TransLink reviewing fares as Moggill commuters prefer car trip

[dancingmongoose]

Are zones being reviewed as well? It would be good to get rid of the stupidity with some stations such as Oxley (Zone 3) being a completely different zone to the bus stop next to it (Zone 4), and I know this isn't the only case.

[James]

Are zones being reviewed as well? It would be good to get rid of the stupidity with some stations such as Oxley (Zone 3) being a completely different zone to the bus stop next to it (Zone 4), and I know this isn't the only case.

Yes, I believe little anomalies like this are set to go under the new fare system. It is only logical, but hey this is Queensland...

[ozbob]

Yo, this is Queensland and we love it  Zone anomalies are being looked at.

[Derwan]

Do we know the timeline for the implementation of the new fare structure?

Will it be...

1. Before the next generation ticketing system,
2. In conjunction with the next generation ticketing system, OR
3. After the next generation ticketing system has been rolled out?

[ozbob]

No public committment yet as to timeline.

However, the next generation system is years away so I expect there will be a change in the present fare structure.  With  further changes with the new generation system.

A new generation system will be able to do anything desired essentially. The present system has serious limitations.

[STB]

Are zones being reviewed as well? It would be good to get rid of the stupidity with some stations such as Oxley (Zone 3) being a completely different zone to the bus stop next to it (Zone 4), and I know this isn't the only case.

You also have the little anomaly up at the Anzac Ave/Deception Bay Road intersection where route 680 passes through zone 7 for about 500m (effectively just one stop), before ducking back into zone 6 again.  Honestly always thought that should've been a zone boundary, so if you were catching route 660 north to Caboolture you'd pay for zone 7, if you were going towards Petrie/Redcliffe on route 680, you'd only pay for zone 6 and that's it.

Same with Helensvale, always thought Helensvale station should've been zone 11/12, not zone 12 with the zone boundary looping around the station like it currently does.

[Arnz]

Route 607 is also another example.  Before the bus review, it dipped into Zone 17 for a few minutes before it goes back in Zone 16.  Most drivers were charging 3 zones although there was some that charged only the 2 zones.  Since the 2014 review, it's been diverted in Brightwater (which is split between Parrearra and Mountain Creek, although most of Brightwater is a part of Mountain Creek), so it's now a proper 3-zone trip.

[ozbob]

In case you didn't notice ... a member of the Fare Review Taskforce was elected as the Member for North Sydney yesterday (Joe Hockey's former seat).

> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/fares/fare-review-ToR

[#Metro]

Is he being paid for this? If so, it may constitute holding 'an office of profit under the crown' which would invalidate his ability to hold his seat should he participate.

s44 Austraian Constitution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_44_of_the_Constitution_of_Australia

George Newhouse[edit]
At the 2007 federal election, it was claimed by the Liberal Party that George Newhouse, the high-profile Australian Labor Party candidate for the seat of Wentworth, was ineligible to stand for parliament under sub-section v of Section 44. In particular, it was alleged that Newhouse had not resigned from the New South Wales Consumer Disputes Tribunal and so was maintaining "an office for profit under the crown". Liberal frontbencher Andrew Robb claimed that a by-election would have been necessary in Wentworth if Newhouse were to win the seat, due to his ineligibility.[5] The matter never came to a head though, as Newhouse was comfortably defeated by the incumbent Liberal Party candidate and federal Minister Malcolm Turnbull.

Jeannie Ferris[edit]
During the period in between her endorsement as a Liberal Party senator in the 1996 election and taking her seat on 1 July of that year, Jeannie Ferris had been employed by Senator Nick Minchin. It was unclear at the time whether this constituted holding an "office of profit under the Crown" as specified in sub-section iv. To avoid the possibility of her election being declared invalid, Ferris resigned from the Senate only to be immediately re-appointed to fill the casual vacancy she had created by the Parliament of South Australia.

[ozbob]

No, honorary.   No payment for participation.  Do it for the community.