SEQ Fare Review Taskforce

[Derwan]

I'd be interested in seeing some figures for our members.  On average, how much will you save per year?  Use the same calculation method as TransLink (i.e. travelling 48 weeks per year).

For me, I currently spend $4.66 each way (between zones 4 and 2) 4 days per week.  Under the new fare system, I'll be travelling between zones 2 and 1.

Current:  $4.66 x 8 x 48 = $1,789.44
New: $3.90 x 8 x 48 = $1,497.60

Total savings: $291.84 per year

I'm at the lower end of the scale.  Let's see if we can build up a list of members' savings so we can work out the "average savings for RBOT members".

Edit: Don't forget to take 9-and-free (now) and then 8-and-50% (new fares) into consideration.

[ozbob]

^
16.3% fare cut!

[Derwan]

^
16.3% fare cut!

Putting it like that - it's quite significant!

[ozbob]

Being retired I don't travel every day ... lucky me huh?

So my typical journey maybe a few days a week is Curnow St bus stop (Goodna) to Central Station.

Old fare $2.67 (off peak)  new fare $2.38

Which is a 10.9% fare cut.

My other favourite journey these days is Curnow St bus stop (Goodna) to Ipswich station.

Old fare $1.86 (off peak) new fare $1.56

Which is a 16% fare cut. 

[ozbob]

It will not take the public too long to work that this is a good deal, particularly when they start travelling under the new arrangements.

The Government has bitten the bullet and loss-lead to get bums back on seats.  This will in turn improve the fare box dramatically, and the forward estimates will actually improve.  Don't forget the present cost of the 9 and free overall in terms of forgone revenue needs to factored in as well. 

[ozbob]

The park n' ride dynamics might change as well.  Rather than trying to get to Darra/Oxley to save a buck hey it's the same fare from Goodna or Redbank ..   

All good ..

[ozbob]

Some one has crunched the numbers ..

===============

Twitter

Melissa Grant ‏@mel_grant 6h

Public transport overhaul in #qld Fares reduced and zones cut from 23 to 8. Here's a run down of the savings...



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Average 14.8% fare cut across all zones ..

[red dragin]

0% savings for me as I use my car for work now.

Mrs will go from
$6.69 x 9 = $60.21
to
$5.96 x 9 = $53.64 (8 plus 2 x 50% trips)

Saving us $315.64 in a 48 working week year.

With the 50% fares and free child on weekends, we might actually go into town on the train occasionally, so the little fella gets his train fix. Also makes our plan of train out to Kippa Ring and ride our bikes back to Murrumba Downs on a Sunday feasible too.

Now, if only there was a train to catch..... 

[Fares_Fair]

7.16% fare cut for new zone 6 (old zone 16) to CBD.
Gold Coasters luckier as now only zone 5 to Varsity Lakes. Used to be zone 16.

Information based upon map on p2 of Govt Response to Fare Review, showing Gold Coast Line ending in zone 5.
EDIT 7:13pm 12 June 2016

[ozbob]

7.16% fare cut for new zone 6 to CBD.

What time do you catch the train in the morning on a normal weekday?

[Fares_Fair]

6:23 or 6:40am.. so no off peak fares for me. 
The 5:50am from Nambour may get busier, it's scheduled to dep Palmwoods at 5:59am

[ozbob]

0% savings for me as I use my car for work now.

Mrs will go from
$6.69 x 9 = $60.21
to
$5.96 x 9 = $53.64 (8 plus 2 x 50% trips)

Saving us $315.64 in a 48 working week year.

With the 50% fares and free child on weekends, we might actually go into town on the train occasionally, so the little fella gets his train fix. Also makes our plan of train out to Kippa Ring and ride our bikes back to Murrumba Downs on a Sunday feasible too.

Now, if only there was a train to catch..... 

a 10.9% fare cut ..

[ozbob]

6:23 or 6:40am.. so no off peak fares for me. 

Ha!  Back to lunch time inspection tours of the tunnels between Bowen Hills and Central ..   

[ozbob]

7.16% fare cut for new zone 6 (old zone 16) to CBD.
Gold Coasters luckier as now only zone 5 to Varsity Lakes. Used to be zone 16.

Interesting on the zone map VL is shown as zone 15
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/resources/tickets-and-fares/fares/zone-map.jpg

In the jp it is showing as zone 16

[ozbob]

7.16% fare cut for new zone 6 (old zone 16) to CBD.
Gold Coasters luckier as now only zone 5 to Varsity Lakes. Used to be zone 16.

Interesting on the zone map VL is shown as zone 15
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/resources/tickets-and-fares/fares/zone-map.jpg

In the jp it is showing as zone 16

Hold on it is an old map! Doesn't even have Springfield Central line on it .. 

[ozbob]

I just checked on the Fare review calculator ..

VL is showing as zone 16 old zone 6 new ..

Current fare           2017 fare       Fare difference
Single   $14.10   $13.09       - $1.01
$11.28 (off-peak)   $10.47 (off-peak)   - $0.81

which is 7.16% fare cut (peak) same as Palmwoods.

[Fares_Fair]

I stand corrected, Thank you ozbob.
I need to go back and find where I got the incorrect info from.
May have been the Review report as opposed to Govt response.

Govt response document map on p2 shows Gold Coast line ending in zone 5.
I'll assume the calculator is more correct.

[newbris]

The ongoing fare review task force to try and minimise the politics of fare setting is a great result for the future. One of many great things...thank you Bob.

[newbris]

If the current GCLR route all in the same zone now ?

And the whole Citycat from end to end ?

[Derwan]

I ran with Melissa's idea, prettied it up a bit and added yearly savings.

PDF version: http://goo.gl/CX1ZfP?gdriveurl

Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/photos/a.653209831359874.1073741825.160527347294794/1293937700620414/?type=3

[#Metro]

^^ This is fantastic, well done! Looks very colorful!

[Fares_Fair]

7.16% fare cut for new zone 6 (old zone 16) to CBD.
Gold Coasters luckier as now only zone 5 to Varsity Lakes. Used to be zone 16.

Interesting on the zone map VL is shown as zone 15
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/resources/tickets-and-fares/fares/zone-map.jpg

In the jp it is showing as zone 16

Hold on it is an old map! Doesn't even have Springfield Central line on it .. 

The maps used to show the fare zones do not show the line extension out to Varsity Lakes, perhaps Nerang was the end of the line (and in zone 15?) when the map was last updated.

[City Designer]

The maps used to show the fare zones do not show the line extension out to Varsity Lakes, perhaps Nerang was the end of the line (and in zone 15?) when the map was last updated.

It's Robina station.

[#Metro]

I am saving around $700 I think.

Fare calculator is a bit odd. It doesn't spit out a $ number, just repeating propaganda.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/06/how-do-fair-fares-compare.html
How do the fair fares compare?
A look at fares for heavy public transport users from different zones.

[Otto]

I'd be interested in seeing some figures for our members.  On average, how much will you save per year?  Use the same calculation method as TransLink (i.e. travelling 48 weeks per year).

I guess Mrs Otto is in the 7% of commuters.

Current Fare , Victoria Point Bus Station Z6 to Buranda Busway Z2 = $ 5.96 ( 10 trips per week, 9 then free = $ 53.64 )
January Fare, Victoria Point Bus Station Z3 to Buranda Busway Z1 = $ 5.96 ( 10 trips per week, 8 then 50% = $ 53.64 )

LOL !

[ozbob]

^  Otto the data did indicate there would be a small cohort who would have much the same fare cost.  Yours is a good example of that.

Simply not possible or sensible to make it absolutely 100%, particularly with the zone changes which will have so much benefit for local travel and get rid of a lot of the inequity on Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, around Logan, Redlands, Moreton, Ipswich regional areas etc.

We have really gone from a situation where around 15% of users were having a real nice ride at the expense of everyone else to a situation
with the new structure where 93% of users benefit, the other 7% not so much. That's the breaks.

Meanwhile:

Couriermail --> Fare cut plan a $210m revenue hit

^ this is not correct AFAIA.  The revenue cost of the 9 and free was around $110 for 4 years, so real hit is around $100M but will probably be offset by patronage gains.  My guess is it will be almost cost neutral in the end.

[ozbob]

The ongoing fare review task force to try and minimise the politics of fare setting is a great result for the future. One of many great things...thank you Bob.

Thanks!

A lot of wise thought from a great panel over a long period of time. It shows ...

[ozbob]

Twitter

Jago Dodson ‏@urbanizationist 6h

Good to see long overdue fare reform in SEQ finally happen. Cutting zones and fares: https://haveyoursay.translink.com.au/SEQ-Fare-Review

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[ozbob]

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Public transport fares set to drop as government looks to take pressure of Coast's congested roads

[ozbob]

The Guardian --> Public transport fares to be cut in south-east Queensland

[James]

I think the government should have stuck with the fare system as recommended by the fare review panel. It more accurately represents the cost of long-distance commuting vs. short-distance.

As someone who makes short hops to and from Uni (one-zone trips) at very high frequency, I'm one of the lowest savers, and could even end up being a net loser after factoring the loss of 9-then-waste in weeks where I do lots of travel. Really though, all this will probably do is reduce the amount of unnecessary travel I do (e.g. I won't go home for 1-hour breaks). Overall though, I am still happy with the changes, as it is a more equitable system. I do think 12 zones instead of 8 would be better, but meh, that's life. The fact I can hit 9 trips by Tuesday then travel free for 5 days is ridiculous. It needed to change. Well done to the Qld government! Well done Bob!

[ozbob]

Thanks James! 

Really looking forward to the Next Generation Ticketing now,  it will consolidate things well.

A wide variation of zones was examined, 8 chosen as gives the best overall result but particularly for local regions.   I expect patronage will  build on local trips now too.

[BrizCommuter]

I think the government should have stuck with the fare system as recommended by the fare review panel. It more accurately represents the cost of long-distance commuting vs. short-distance.

As someone who makes short hops to and from Uni (one-zone trips) at very high frequency, I'm one of the lowest savers, and could even end up being a net loser after factoring the loss of 9-then-waste in weeks where I do lots of travel. Really though, all this will probably do is reduce the amount of unnecessary travel I do (e.g. I won't go home for 1-hour breaks). Overall though, I am still happy with the changes, as it is a more equitable system. I do think 12 zones instead of 8 would be better, but meh, that's life. The fact I can hit 9 trips by Tuesday then travel free for 5 days is ridiculous. It needed to change. Well done to the Qld government! Well done Bob!

+1
Short distance and frequent commuters have the least to gain from these changes, when they are the people with the most environmentally sustainable lifestyles. BrizCommuter is interested to know why the palaszczuk government skewed the fares against short distance commuters, instead of following the taskforce recommendations. 1 zone fare should have been lower to compensate for the removal of 9 then free.

[ozbob]

I think the reason they did vary the recommendation on this was to try to encourage more onto public transport and off the roads.

Few clues to this in the statements they put out.  Don't hesitate though to give feedback on it via the feedback process.

[nathandavid88]

+1
Short distance and frequent commuters have the least to gain from these changes, when they are the people with the most environmentally sustainable lifestyles. BrizCommuter is interested to know why the palaszczuk government skewed the fares against short distance commuters, instead of following the taskforce recommendations. 1 zone fare should have been lower to compensate for the removal of 9 then free.

The answer, as I see it, is largely public palatability. Rather than 93% of commuters saving money, the taskforce recommendations would have resulted in a lot of people being no better off, or even worse off under the changes. Can you imagine the media articles? Instead of "fare cut" articles across the board, we would be seeing "winners and losers" in zone 3-4 and even "fares to rise" in zones 6-8? This would not have gone down well with the public, especially in some outer suburbs which are Labor held, such as Logan, which is why the Government chose the decision they did. I for one agree with them on it. While it would be ideal for everyone to live in the same zone as their place of employment, and it's easy enough to say that, the simple fact is this is often impossible for a lot of people. The distance away from their job many people live is not due to lifestyle choices, but for reasons driven by things like property prices and cost of living.

I personally would only be saving the minimum 15¢ per trip/$64.80 per year on my current single zone commute. However, I might be worse off factoring in my weekend travel – my $30.15 weekly commute currently funds all manner of random weekend trips to/through Brisbane, Ipswich or the Gold Coast (thank you 10/9 & free rort), so even with off peak + 50% off weekend travel, I think I would probably suck up that yearly saving and then some.

However... I actually finish up working here by August, and my next job (currently TBA) will liking see me commuting to Brisbane in the future. This is a completely different kettle of fish, as I will save me a much more meaty 73¢ per trip/$315.36 per year over what that commute would be currently, and I don't think even a year's worth of weekend travelling would counter that saving.

[OzGamer]

Very happy with the review. I personally will save quite a lot as will most people and the changes to concessions and incentives are all positive.

One thing I would say is that consolidating zones means that crossing a zone boundary becomes more important, and so I would like it if the zone boundaries were extended.

As an example from my side of town, I would think under the new structure that Indooroopilly train and bus stations should be zone 1/2 rather than just zone 1, so that travel to Indooroopilly from places like Corinda, Jindalee, or Kenmore would be a single zone of travel, as that is the trip to the closest major activity centre, while travel to the city is a two zone trip. I'll put this in as feedback.

[Derwan]

One thing I would say is that consolidating zones means that crossing a zone boundary becomes more important, and so I would like it if the zone boundaries were extended.

When I looked at the new zones, I did ponder that some people travelling a small distance that happens to be between zones would pay more than someone travelling from the edge of the zone to the other edge of the zone, which would be a significantly larger distance.

I think the way around this would've been to maintain the 23 zones but have fewer fare steps.  For example, travel through one or two zones and the fare will be $3.20.  Travel through 3, 4 or 5 zones and the fare will be $3.90.  Going to/from the city would have the same result as the proposed fares, but those travelling smaller distances that happen to be across zone borders would be charged a fairer fare.

On the flip side, this would make things more complicated.  Perhaps it's best to stick with the simple zone system.

[ozbob]

The zones are really a transition to NGT. 

My hunch is zones will become largely irrelevant, boundary issues gone, fares will be distance based point to point with capping.

I think we do now have the best all round options for the present limited go card system.

I am now focussed on the future .. 

[Derwan]

I am now focussed on the future ..